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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Nine Lessons and Carols
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
I've been invited to conduct a neighbouring parish's 'Carols by Candlelight' on December 14th....i.e. halfway through Advent (I like this sort of service, so I'm rather looking forward to it!).
I'm not responsible for the order of service, but I'm hoping that it will have at least one or two 'Advent-ish' hymns or carols!
Given the fact that the secular 'Christmas' begins somewhen about now, I think compromise is called for......
Ian J.
This is a situation where I think you really need to think about the expectations of the people who are (hopefully) going to attend - especially non-regulars.
If I were a very occasional attender, coming to a carol service in December, I would probably be very disappointed to find that we weren't singing all the "traditional" Christmas carols. And I would probably be pissed off if someone then tried to lecture me on the difference between Advent and Christmas.
In December, people want to sing "O Come all ye faithful" and "O little town of Bethlehem" etc. If you give 'em what they want, who knows - they may want to come back another time. In my experience, Christmas carols and readings on or after Advent 3 works well. People enjoy and go away happy.
Indeed. But I hope they would still go away happy if "O Come, O Come Emmanuel" was the first (or second if you have to begin with "Once in Royal David's City") carol/hymn and they then sang "O Come all ye faithful" and "O little town of Bethlehem" etc as well. That seems like a reasonable compromise to me.
Yep. I'd say that was perfectly acceptable.
(But then, any occasion to sing O Come, O Come Emmanuel is acceptable to me...)
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
Thanksgiving to Christmas Day is secular Christmas. Why not have Nine Lessons and Carols for secular Christmas? Maybe include some Advent hymns and scripture but focus on secular readings and songs of the season. The carols are plentiful. Coming up with nine appropriate readings would be tricky. I'm thinking "Twas the Night Before Christmas" and something from "A Christmas Carol." Adding "Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus" might be too much emphasis on Santa Claus.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
I'm starting to think I might cancel Christmas this year and just go on a long cruise to wherever the ship will take me. It shouldn't cause everyone such heartache.
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
If I were a very occasional attender, coming to a carol service in December, I would probably be very disappointed to find that we weren't singing all the "traditional" Christmas carols. And I would probably be pissed off if someone then tried to lecture me on the difference between Advent and Christmas.
In December, people want to sing "O Come all ye faithful" and "O little town of Bethlehem" etc. If you give 'em what they want, who knows - they may want to come back another time. In my experience, Christmas carols and readings on or after Advent 3 works well. People enjoy and go away happy.
[/QB]
On the other hand, it seems to me as though they are going to eventually be disappointed in any case once they discover that the Church's season and that of commerce overlap only slightly. It's neither pastoral nor evangelistic to misrepresent the Church.
We try to pre-empt any such disappointment by advertising our L&C service as an Advent L&C up front. I haven't heard any complaints from visitors yet, just compliments on the beauty of the music.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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St. Punk the Pious
Biblical™ Punk
# 683
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Posted
Count me among those appalled by this enormity. The world, in order to get its filthy lucre, cries "Christmas, CHRISTMAS, MERRRRRRRRRRRRRY EFFING CHRISTMAS!!!" as soon as All Saints Eve is past. But it should not be that way in God's Holy Church.
Advent is a season of preparation for Christ's coming. Is a service of Advent carols appropriate then? Yes, and I've had the pleasure to attend excellent ones in Oxford. But Christmas Nine Lessons and Carols services before Christmas Eve are more worldly than holy. Only in the most exceptional circumstances (such as a school chapel closed well before Christmas) is such excusable.
I better stop before I say something unholy.
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The Society of St. Pius *
Wannabe Anglican, Reader
My reely gud book.
Posts: 4161 | From: Choral Evensong | Registered: Jul 2001
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
And I would probably be pissed off if someone then tried to lecture me on the difference between Advent and Christmas.
Nice way to manufacture outrage.
There's a bidding, the lessons, the prayers. No lecture.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Not sure why it's associated with Christmas, probably just due to it being warming and an indulgence from the booze and creaminess.
Your expertise on North America has failed you; eggnog is always served cold.
If you want it warm, go to a German Christmas market. Eierpunsch is served warm, and pretty potent it is too.
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
I don't like carol services. I only put the Christmas cards up in my home on 24 December.
However, carols services, inevitably for schools, have taken place in Advent ever since my childhood.
Good pastoral reasons can be made for having a carol service sometime in December, as Oscar suggests. It need not be giving into commercialism
But it is certainly not for the choir master to make that decision.
Nor is it for the choir to decide whether or not to celebrate the Easter Vigil.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
But it is certainly not for the choir master to make that decision.
And if the minister has abdicated his control over that decision, and has decided to go along with someone else's preferences?
I'm wondering why the minister, now that we know that he's not caring to exert any control in this matter, is not getting the same level of opprobrium on this thread as the music director got.
quote:
Nor is it for the choir to decide whether or not to celebrate the Easter Vigil.
I don't know if the Easter Vigil at my church was discontinued because some choir members didn't want to do it, or if it was discontinued for other reasons.
Now people who want to celebrate the Easter Vigil are directed to go to the Easter Vigil at the cathedral.
[ 17. September 2014, 13:39: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
What would be the pastoral reason for having a Christmas carol service in Advent that isn't giving into commercialism?
What are the pastoral reason for having a Christmas carol service in the first place?
In my experience, priests who buck tradition and even canons for "pastoral reasons" are doing so because they want to do so. The actual pastoral reasons are vague or nonexistent. For instance, Oscar the Grouch mentions this theoretical person coming to a carol service in Advent and getting mad that the church choir isn't singing Christmas carols during Advent. How likely is this to happen given proper advertisement of the service? Having a Christmas carol service during Advent because people expect to sing Christmas carols during Christmas is giving into the commercialization of Christmas because the commercialization of Christmas is why people expect to sing Christmas carols during Advent in the first place.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
I think there is a useful distinction to be made between formal and informal. The formal church programme follows the Church's year, so we sing Advent Carols in Advent and Christmas Carols at Christmas.
However, there is also an informal programme, which sees the choir singing Christmas Carols at Dickensian Evening in the Town Square, right at the beginning of Advent, and also Christmas Carols at the many carol services in eg. residential homes around the parish.
We seem to be able to operate the two in parallel somehow.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
The Christmas Carol takes place on Christmas Eve not early December. Singing Christmas carols in early December and blaming Charles Dickens makes no sense either. Why not visit retirement homes during Christmas and sing carols? Again, 12 Days of Christmas isn't just a song about receiving odd gifts from one's true love.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Probably because many of the residents and half the choir are the other end of the country with relatives.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
The pastoral reason is that for some reason people who don't often come to church, like carol services in the period before the country shuts down for two weeks. Sentimental, maybe, but they like it. And it may make some think more seriously.
I can put up with my church doing carol services which I don't need to attend.
The thing that irritates me no end is how in the C of E Mothering Sunday seems to have replaced Lent 4.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
In my experience, priests who buck tradition and even canons for "pastoral reasons" are doing so because they want to do so. The actual pastoral reasons are vague or nonexistent. For instance, Oscar the Grouch mentions this theoretical person coming to a carol service in Advent and getting mad that the church choir isn't singing Christmas carols during Advent. How likely is this to happen given proper advertisement of the service?
In my experience, extremely likely, even among Christians. And "the (wo)man on the street", who neither understands the niceties of Advent and Christmas nor is likely to know very many Advent carols, isn't going to listen to a long explanation of why their favourite carol wasn't included.
quote:
Having a Christmas carol service during Advent because people expect to sing Christmas carols during Christmas is giving into the commercialization of Christmas because the commercialization of Christmas is why people expect to sing Christmas carols during Advent in the first place.
Perhaps, perhaps not - I suspect that the early "popular" singing of Christmas carols may predate the modern secularised Christmas. But what I - as a Nonconformist - fail to understand is why the "human tradition" (for it has no specific Biblical mandate) of the Liturgical calendar should take precedence over what may be genuine evangelistic opportunities offered by Christmas carol services. That sounds very inward-looking and precious to me.
As a matter of fact, I like Advent and do not like having Christmas carols sung too early - I once knew a Baptist church where they were sung throughout December and therefore "used up" by Christmas itself. But a careful working towards Christmas, with some carols used on Advent 4 and possibly Advent 3, seems perfectly acceptable.
As it happens, our own Carol Service is held on one of those two dates (depending on the vagaries of the calendar and the availability of choristers) and always starts with at least two, if not more, Advent carols and hymns, moving in through the story to the "Christmas" ones.
Services after Christmas just don't seem to work; whether we like it or not, most folk think that "Christmas is over" after the 26th, and many go into "holiday mode" as well, at least in Britain.
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
PS to Venbede (cross-posted):
I don't mind Mothering Sunday replacing Lent 4 (except that it disturbs the flow of Easter preparation). But I do mind that it has been replaced by the tacky "Mothers' Day" which is something quite different!
[ 17. September 2014, 14:41: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Lent 4 is Refreshment Sunday.
I was taught that for a Catholic (not necessarily roman) it's the one day in Lent one can have sex... ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
quote:
originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Probably because many of the residents and half the choir are the other end of the country with relatives.
Then across the country with family is where to sing Christmas carols.
quote:
originally posted by venbede:
The pastoral reason is that for some reason people who don't often come to church, like carol services in the period before the country shuts down for two weeks. Sentimental, maybe, but they like it. And it may make some think more seriously.
I doubt it. Look, every single priest tells themselves that if the Christmas or Easter services or good enough people will come back next week. The ones that do are a statistical anomaly. Capitulating to the commercialization of Christmas on the off chance that doing so might make somebody "think more seriously" is simply not worth it. At some point, I'd rather say enough is enough. This is how we celebrate Christmas and why. If you want to join with us, you are most welcome.
quote:
originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
In my experience, extremely likely, even among Christians. And "the (wo)man on the street", who neither understands the niceties of Advent and Christmas nor is likely to know very many Advent carols, isn't going to listen to a long explanation of why their favourite carol wasn't included.
I'm willing to risk the occasional person being upset about Christmas carols not being sung at what was clearly advertised as an Advent service. Heck, nearly every decision I make disappoints somebody who regularly attends. Why compromise on what I consider to be a very important principle to avoid offending somebody who I know will likely never be back even if I made the decision that pleased them?
quote:
originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Perhaps, perhaps not - I suspect that the early "popular" singing of Christmas carols may predate the modern secularised Christmas. But what I - as a Nonconformist - fail to understand is why the "human tradition" (for it has no specific Biblical mandate) of the Liturgical calendar should take precedence over what may be genuine evangelistic opportunities offered by Christmas carol services. That sounds very inward-looking and precious to me.
One, most Christians in the world reject the implied premise in the biblical mandate statement. Two, I don't see it as much of an evangelical opportunity. Three, if it is, I'm happy to leave that evangelical opportunity to nonconformists. Week long revivals where preachers from out of town come and preach hell fire and brimstone are also evangelistic opportunities (and probably more effective than Christmas carol services in Advent) that Anglicans miss.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
Most Christians in the world reject the implied premise in the biblical mandate statement.
Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. All I meant is that there is no specific Biblical basis for the Liturgical Calendar as it stands, with seasons such as Advent, Lent, etc. That doesn't mean that these aren't good things to have: they are. But they aren't "primary doctrine" and so IMO can be bent as necessary as circumstances demand or suggest.
The Jewish year, on the other hand, was laid down in the Mosaic Law.
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
I was taught that for a Catholic (not necessarily roman) it's the one day in Lent one can have sex...
Husband: "Not tonight, dear. It's Lent."
Wife: "To whom? And for how long?"
(I'll get me coat...)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
Most Christians in the world reject the implied premise in the biblical mandate statement.
Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. All I meant is that there is no specific Biblical basis for the Liturgical Calendar as it stands, with seasons such as Advent, Lent, etc. That doesn't mean that these aren't good things to have: they are. But they aren't "primary doctrine" and so IMO can be bent as necessary as circumstances demand or suggest.
The Jewish year, on the other hand, was laid down in the Mosaic Law.
For some of us, tradition is also binding and commercialization of a holiday by the secular culture is not a good reason to break tradition.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
But precedent for the liturgical seasons is perfectly Biblical. Festivals such as: - Passover; Pentecost; Tabernacles, are to be found referred to there.
If the same principle was right then, why should it not be right now?
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ˇFelices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
For some of us, tradition is also binding and commercialization of a holiday by the secular culture is not a good reason to break tradition.
I absolutely agree that the commercialisation of the season does not, of itself, give a reason to break with tradition. It is clearly good for Christians to remain counter-cultural rather than being subsumed by it.
I also agree - as you said - that Christmas does not necessarily provide the good evangelistic opportunity we sometimes think it does; as a friend of mine once said, "It's the easiest time of year to get people into church and the hardest time to get them to think seriously about their faith". Nevertheless I also feel that the churches have no option but to engage people in the surrounding world within their own cultures rather than expecting them to necessarily accommodate to ours.
Ultimately I feel that tradition, however full of wisdom it may be and however much stability and continuity it offers, is not absolutely and finally binding in the same way as Scripture. Indeed, it may well need careful reinterpretation in different contexts. Might I venture to suggest that that is precisely Jesus did with Jewish tradition in his day?
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
But precedent for the liturgical seasons is perfectly Biblical. Festivals such as: - Passover; Pentecost; Tabernacles, are to be found referred to there.
If the same principle was right then, why should it not be right now?
Because the Jewish liturgical year is specifically detailed in the Bible, while the Christian year is not. This is also true, to a degree, of worship practices: the OT gives detailed provisions, the NT only offers principles and hints (eg 1 Corinthians 12-14).
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Roselyn
Shipmate
# 17859
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Posted
Next time you think about the value of liturgicall seasons give some thought to the Southern Hemisphere.
Easter comes with oncoming cold, winter darkness etc. Christmas as the beginning of hot sleepy summers.
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Stephen
Shipmate
# 40
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Posted
The trouble is if you held it after Christmas people wouldn't come. We hold our carol service which is the civic one as close to Christmas as one can say on 21st December or thereabouts.
Advent Sunday is far too early - and my immediate response was 'who is running the church'? As L'organist pointed out these decisions are properly the province of the incumbent together with the PCC. Of course the organist/choirmaster should have an input, but at the end of the day it's the incumbent who carries the can for the parish
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Best Wishes
Stephen
'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
It is rather nice to be on a messageboard and find you respect and like someone coming from a completely different tradition from yourself.
Baptist Trainfan, I mean you and I'm glad to hear from you.
The liturgical approach is very important to me. That's why I don't eat meat during Advent and I don't put the Christmas cards up until Christmas Eve.
But the reasons for liturgical seasons are not primarily Biblical precedent. BT is quite right there although s/he appears to have more liturgical sensitivity than all too many Anglicans.
The Orthodox Church doesn't have Advent as such (just a fasting period for 40 days before 25/12).
And Advent is not such a contrast to Christmas as Lent is to Easter. Look at the Breviary and Tridentine Missal and you'll find plenty of texts used in the King's 9 lessons - Annunciation, Isaiah...
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Yes, BT is talking a lot of sense here- as always.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
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NatDogg
Shipmate
# 14347
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Yes, BT is talking a lot of sense here- as always.
Indeed BT is.
Posts: 139 | Registered: Dec 2008
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
Fine, no doubt the converts will pour in by the thousands from Christmas carol services done in Advent. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Probably not, but the sky won't fall in either.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
quote:
Crap spouted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
But precedent for the liturgical seasons is perfectly Biblical. Festivals such as: - Passover; Pentecost; Tabernacles, are to be found referred to there.
If the same principle was right then, why should it not be right now?
Because the Jew*** liturgical year is specifically detailed in the Bible, while the Christian year is not. This is also true, to a degree, of worship practices: the OT gives detailed provisions, the NT only offers principles and hints (eg 1 Corinthians 12-14).
Not necessarily everything is to be found in scripture. To cut a long story short, basing one's principles on scripture alone, may be a tall order. The threefold yardstick is that the factors of Scripture, Tradition and Reason exist together on an equal par.
But * think that is a discussion for another thread.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ˇFelices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
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BulldogSacristan
Shipmate
# 11239
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Posted
quote:
Crap spouted by Stephen:
The trouble is if you held it after Christmas people wouldn't come. We hold our carol service which is the civic one as close to Christmas as one can say on 21st December or thereabouts.
Advent Sunday is far too early - and my immediate response was 'who is running the church'? As L'organist pointed out these decisions are properly the province of the incumbent together with the PCC. Of course the organist/choirmaster should have an input, but at the end of the day it's the incumbent who carries the can for the par***
* don't find this response true whatsoever. We do a full Advent Lessons and Carols on the afternoon of Advent Sunday, and it's quite popular. We then do Christmas Lesson and Carols on New Years Eve to an absolutely packed house. Aside from Easter Day, * 'd say it's the biggest service we do. It's at 5:00 or so, and sometimes people come dressed for the evening, and it's a lot of fun. If people want a time in the Christmastide to do Christmas Lessons and Carols, let me suggest late New Year's Eve afternoon. It's a great time.
Posts: 197 | From: Boston, Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2006
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76
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Posted
How big an event is New Year itself in the US? There may be some cultural differences.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Prester John
Shipmate
# 5502
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Posted
quote:
Crap spouted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
How big an event is New Year itself in the US? There may be some cultural differences.
It is one of the few days that almost everyone has off of work. Most office workers go home early the day before if they don't already have New Year's Eve off as well.
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Crap spouted by Prester John:
quote:
Crap spouted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
How big an event is New Year itself in the US? There may be some cultural differences.
It is one of the few days that almost everyone has off of work. Most office workers go home early the day before if they don't already have New Year's Eve off as well.
* was thinking more in terms of whether people tend to be away visiting relatives and holding parties as they do in the UK
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Prester John
Shipmate
# 5502
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Posted
quote:
Crap spouted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Crap spouted by Prester John:
quote:
Crap spouted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
How big an event is New Year itself in the US? There may be some cultural differences.
It is one of the few days that almost everyone has off of work. Most office workers go home early the day before if they don't already have New Year's Eve off as well.
* was thinking more in terms of whether people tend to be away visiting relatives and holding parties as they do in the UK
Oh. Yeah it is the same here.
Posts: 884 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Feb 2004
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
It is very difficult to do anything much after Christmas in Australia. Many people head off to the beach on Boxing Day(or before), the kids are all on l***thy Summer holidays and the choir at our church is on holiday from Christmas Day until the end of January.
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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BulldogSacristan
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# 11239
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Posted
quote:
Crap spouted by Prester John:
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Crap spouted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
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Crap spouted by Prester John:
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Crap spouted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
How big an event is New Year itself in the US? There may be some cultural differences.
It is one of the few days that almost everyone has off of work. Most office workers go home early the day before if they don't already have New Year's Eve off as well.
* was thinking more in terms of whether people tend to be away visiting relatives and holding parties as they do in the UK
Oh. Yeah it is the same here.
* meant to say it's a particularly good time because people won't be headed off to their parties for several more hours, so it's a nice time to get a spiritual respite before the festivities begin. And like * said before, a lot of people come dressed for the evening so there's black tie, gowns, etc.
* don't see why if you're visiting on New Year's Day that would preclude doing something the afternoon before.
Posts: 197 | From: Boston, Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2006
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Your chances of getting anyone to a Lessons & Carols in the UK on News Years Day would be nil.
NYD is traditionally either for recovering from a hangover, having a family lunch or going to the post-Christmas sales.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Crap spouted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
The threefold yardstick is that the factors of Scripture, Tradition and Reason exist together on an equal par.
But * think that is a discussion for another thread.
Perhaps one entitled "Fond Inventions of the Nineteenth Century."
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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BulldogSacristan
Shipmate
# 11239
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Posted
quote:
Crap spouted by L'organist:
Your chances of getting anyone to a Lessons & Carols in the UK on News Years Day would be nil.
NYD is traditionally either for recovering from a hangover, having a family lunch or going to the post-Christmas sales.
That's why * suggested our practice of having it New Year's Eve afternoon! Before everyone starts with the hangover inducement!
Posts: 197 | From: Boston, Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2006
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Crap spouted by L'organist:
Your chances of getting anyone to a Lessons & Carols in the UK on News Years Day would be nil.
NYD is traditionally either for recovering from a hangover, having a family lunch or going to the post-Christmas sales.
Don't forget the panto.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Crap spouted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
... The threefold yardstick is that the factors of Scripture, Tradition and Reason exist together on an equal par.
But * think that is a discussion for another thread.
Up to a point Lord Copper, with it's original meaning.
Reason is a tool we apply to scripture, and under scripture's tutelage. It isn't an * *******ent, free-standing, authority of its own. And likewise, with Tradition, it too is not an * *******ent, free-standing authority of its own. If one wants to get an idea of how it fits with scripture and reason, it is a good idea to start with "Of Ceremonies why some be abol***ed, and some retained".
Sorry EFF, this has been b*gg***d about by these silly asterisks.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
* dunno; there's plenty of people in the UK take their Christmas decorations down the day after Boxing Day. The concept that Christmas goes past the 26th is more honoured in the breach (and yes * do know the original meaning of that phrase; * 'm using the colloquial one). Most UKians would find it exceedingly odd to be singing Christmas Carols by New Year.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Why, Valentine tat and Easter eggs are on sale by then - with barbecues probably soon to follow.
[ 19. September 2014, 12:38: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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