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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: MW2767: St Clement of Rome, Sun City
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
And yet, given Moses and other OT examples, barefoot (no sandals at all) would seem to be a fine way to go.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
But none of them officiated at Holy Communion.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hooker's Trick:
Both equally shocking whilst waiting at the Holy Table. A lady in such circumstances would, of course, wear black court shoes.
+ a frilly apron and a little pad to take down the orders on? This parallel doesn't work.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
They stood in the very presence of God, which is close enough for me when it comes to standing in the Eucharistic Presence.
Apparently God likes bare toes.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Very odd cultural differences at play here. OT prophets and Muslims take off their shoes in the presence of God; Jews cover their heads; Christians traditionally wear shoes (but only Anglo-catholics seem bothered about the colour), and if female cover their heads but if male uncover them. If God were not God s/he would get very confused.
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
And it's partly cultural in my case, since I live largely in a culture where you take off your shoes in someone's home. As a result, wearing dirty street shoes to the altar has always seemed to me a bit odd. Though I do it, so as not to freak out my mainstream culture friends.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
It's not confusing at all ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
Actually I suspect the great lord almighty who invented toes is probably not too shocked to see them at the altar/table whatever. There are other parts of the body to which I (and the scriptures) might suggest God responds more cautiously in public (hair of course being something God's servant Paul had some thoughts about).
But as Lamb Chopped is indicating, cultural propriety rather than Anglo-Saxon snobbishness should be the dictator of sartorial choice. Kuruman and I worked training indigenous Australian priests for whom anything but sandals or bare feet would have been both excruciatinly painful and bloody ridiculous at the altar. Might not Oxbridge or Yalevard attire just look a little out of place when this is your nave, it's 40+C outside and more inside, when your normal Eucharistic context is like this and any rampant Europeanization of dress begins to smack far more of colonialization than the gospel of Jesus Christ?
And if that is true of remote Indigenous liturgies, why is it not true of down town New York, Manchester, Auckland or Ouagadougou (in the latter of which you would be brave to wear shoes or make eucharist at all)?
In other words, ffs let's not be paternalist or culturally imperialistic about what God wants God's people to wear. The vestment symbols are fine in context, the clothes must be appropriate in context, and if someone doesn't like it then that someone should probably have a long hard look at the reasons for their prejudice and make sure they really mean the words of confession when they say them.
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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by Hooker's Trick:
Both equally shocking whilst waiting at the Holy Table. A lady in such circumstances would, of course, wear black court shoes.
+ a frilly apron and a little pad to take down the orders on? This parallel doesn't work.
I'm afraid that on the rare occasions when our vicar, for some reason, puts on a Roman chasuble to celebrate versus populum, she does rather look like a dinner lady in one of those tabards. (I wouldn't dare tell her that, though. ![[Smile]](smile.gif) )
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
The clothes must be appropriate in context, and if someone doesn't like it then that someone should probably have a long hard look at the reasons for their prejudice.
I have no problem with that provided it was in Ordinary Time.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
One Easter morning I was serving as Eucharistic minister and noticed that our Rector had slipped out of her stylish pumps when she began the Eucharistic prayer. We were standing behind the altar, which was covered with a lush frontal that reached all the way to the floor on all sides. No one knew she was barefoot except for me and, as Zappa put it so well, quote:
the great lord almighty who invented toes.
She slipped back into her high heels before we carried communion to the people, and no one was the wiser, and certainly no offense given. As far as I could tell, God was glorified and the people were fed.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Well said, Dean Zappa, I could not agree more. As for Lois Nadjamerrek, she looks dressed with a simply dignity very suited to the occasion - as did the priest in the anecdote I related.
BTW, like the other photos you took, and perhaps some might like to flip through them to get a better idea of the the country of which you're speaking.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
I wear sandals with out socks in the Tropics. In the sanctuary, priests, readers, and altar boys are barefoot. So are we all because we have left our footwear outside on the church porch.
I also just wear sandals in Canada from the time of my return until the weather requires shoes and socks.
As long as my feet are clean, there is no reason to do otherwise. No one has ever commented (Miss Amanda might, but she is an obvious exception). What a very silly thing about which to get upset!
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
Hell on Earth for Miss Amanda
Well, Rapid City, South Dakota . . . what do you expect? At least the altar party and choir were all properly shod and haberdashed.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Pancho
Shipmate
# 13533
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by crunt:
(dress shorts! Is there such a thing?)
Yes. Yes there is.
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
To respond to several points raised upthread:
I called it matins; they called it "Liturgy of the Hours: Morning Prayer" in the bulletin. Tomayto, tomahto.
Not really. In the Latin Rite, Matins and Lauds are two distinct offices. Morning Prayer is simply Lauds in the modern Liturgy of the Hours. The equivalent to old Matins is the Office of Readings which can now be said at any time of the day (and joined to another office).
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“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places and calling to their playmates, ‘We piped to you, and you did not dance;
we wailed, and you did not mourn.’"
Posts: 1988 | From: Alta California | Registered: Mar 2008
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