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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Unwelcome at church
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
LC, I don't know what you've got to be ashamed of. So far as I can see you didn't do anything wrong. Except maybe expect to find a more Christian attitude in a church than what you did find. I suppose it's hard to know whether the people who talked to you are representative of the congregation. Do you have any contact with the pastor, at all? And - with respect to organists - many organists are hyper-critical of congregational behaviour for various reasons.
At any rate, it would seem clear it's not the church for you and your son. If you felt you could do it objectively enough(!) you could offer some feedback of your experience to the pastor and/or church council of that place. Many churches, sadly, are just not able to cope with - or want to cope with - attenders who don't conform to behavioural expectations.
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Charlie-in-the-box
Shipmate
# 17954
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Posted
Hugs to you,
I had an ADHD son and I know how precious our boys are when they have needs that others see as an imposition.
I suffer with PTSD and I also have severe OCD which makes it impossible for me to receive communion. I have so many panic attacks I quit church. I totally get what you're saying because not only did I not get any compassion, I was basically beaten down.
I wish I had an answer but make sure the pastor/priest/vicar knows what happened and my heart goes out to you and your son. I thought churches were making headway accommodating people with mental illness and other disorders but sadly, I'm not seeing it where I am. I hope you can find a place that will be more understanding and screw them. I agree with the poster who said there is a reason they are small. You and your son deserve better.
Hugs!
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Charlie-in-the-box
http://rosarygirl1962.blogspot.com/
Posts: 55 | From: Island of Misfit Heretics | Registered: Jan 2014
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Now I'm really in the shits.
We went back to church and sat in the far front. Not a word from anyone, good or bad, so I don't think we've made progress or con-gress (?) either. Just staying in one place.
Now I discover that for the next several years I'm going to be minding a three-year-old and and seven-year-old in addition to my own child every Saturday, and that includes during church time. (These are relatives who need help)
I'm grimly considering my options.
Take them to church, sit in the front, and watch half the heads in the back row explode?
Give up and stay home?
Find another church with a different attitude/balcony seating/actual live children in worship/free duct tape for parents to use?
Put the problem in front of the current pastor?
![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
I'm really rather leaning (in an evil way) toward that. Just see if he's willing to accept the challenge. Though it's rather cruel of me.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
No, it's not cruel of you, it's honest of you LC. The gauntlet must be laid down. Does he and the rest of the congregation love you and the children enough to do their best to let you know it and to make you feel welcome? And perhaps to actually help you?
If so, you'll do your best to show them your love in return.
If not, God will lead you to a church where they take discipleship seriously.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804
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Posted
Oh sit at the front...With the youngsters. All of them.
After all, you'll be concentrating on them and facing the front.
The back row can explode all it wants.
Posts: 3126 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Zacchaeus
Shipmate
# 14454
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ethne Alba:
Oh sit at the front...With the youngsters. All of them.
After all, you'll be concentrating on them and facing the front.
The back row can explode all it wants.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
seriously speak to the pastor - it will challenge them as to how serious they are about wanting children/ anybody new who is not like the old guard into their church
Posts: 1905 | From: the back of beyond | Registered: Jan 2009
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
How much of the antipathy is real, and how much imagined? For example, I know that my church is really welcoming of people with special needs. And noise in the service is viewed not as disruptive, but a sign of inclusiveness.
And yet... we still get people who say they felt unwelcome, thought they heard 'tuts', felt they were being stared at, etc. etc.
I remember, as a young parent, feeling super sensitive to the opinions of others. But, looking back, I see that it was as much my fault for being super sensitive, as theirs for not appearing to be accommodating (they were).
I'm sure in some cases fallible Christians can be unwelcoming. But in other cases....
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804
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Posted
Suppose it all depends on how much you feel that you can take.
You have my deepest sympathy.
[ 15. September 2014, 22:30: Message edited by: Ethne Alba ]
Posts: 3126 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
I sit at the front of my Lutheran church. The only people ahead of me are a young mother and her two little boys who are totally wild, playing, talking, laughing, rolling up and down the length of the pew. Last winter, when the weather was bad, the only way I could motivate myself to get ready and go was the thought of seeing those precious little boys.
Go ahead and take your little crew up front and bring a smile to the ones up there who need it. Let the biddies explode all alone in the back far from the joyous entertainment.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I sit at the front of my Lutheran church. The only people ahead of me are a young mother and her two little boys who are totally wild, playing, talking, laughing, rolling up and down the length of the pew. Last winter, when the weather was bad, the only way I could motivate myself to get ready and go was the thought of seeing those precious little boys.
![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
Lamb Chopped: Nothing to add to what's already been said, just: ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif) You and LL are in my prayers.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Now I discover that for the next several years I'm going to be minding a three-year-old and and seven-year-old in addition to my own child every Saturday, and that includes during church time. (These are relatives who need help)
Children are part of the church, whether they are your own children, or whether they are loaners. Take them, and sit up front.
Don't present it to the priest as a challenge - there shouldn't be a challenge here. People bringing children to church is (should be) normal. You might slip the fact that you'll have four kids with you from now on into casual conversation, though - just to see how he responds.
If the kids you'll be minding aren't used to church, it might be a challenge for them at first, so if you think that easing your way into it will be better for the children, then do that. Just be careful not to let them establish a routine that you're not willing to support...
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Thanks, folks. [coughs embarrassedly] I think maybe a couple of you haven't read the whole thread, or you'd see why I'm worried, and why I'm thinking I need to talk to the pastor again about the new situation. And also why I don't really feel I can quite say "to hell with you" by my actions to long-established members when I'll never be anything but an ongoing visitor. I would do it if we were attending this as our only church. But under the circs, well...
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
If it was me I'd talk to the pastor, whether I was planning to carry on coming or not. Maybe talking to him would help you decide what to do?
It sounds as if you're leaning towards not going, and I can understand that. I hope you can find a different church that will be more welcoming.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
I would most definitely be talking with your pastor. He (from memory he) seems both sympathetic and reasonable. He's also in a position gently to tell the difficult ones how they can make your situation work to their benefit and that of the whole congregation.
OK, we have disruptive youngsters from time to time. The Rector has made it clear that the youngsters are just as much a part of the congregation as anyone else. He's right, even if I'd rather not have a squealing infant in the middle of the prayer of consecration, or in the quiet period after the sermon.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
I've said it before; I'll say it again. People saying they want children in church is like children saying they want a rabbit. They like the idea, but they soon lose interest when it needs cleaning out, handling, and when it craps on the floor.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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daisydaisy
Shipmate
# 12167
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I've said it before; I'll say it again. People saying they want children in church is like children saying they want a rabbit. They like the idea, but they soon lose interest when it needs cleaning out, handling, and when it craps on the floor.
Sadly this is too, too true.
Posts: 3184 | From: southern uk | Registered: Dec 2006
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Thanks, folks. [coughs embarrassedly] I think maybe a couple of you haven't read the whole thread, or you'd see why I'm worried, and why I'm thinking I need to talk to the pastor again about the new situation. And also why I don't really feel I can quite say "to hell with you" by my actions to long-established members when I'll never be anything but an ongoing visitor. I would do it if we were attending this as our only church. But under the circs, well...
I think what some of us were doing was widening out the thread to look at the general issue, as well as the specific example you raised. This is often what happens when threads have been going a while, in my experience. I don't think people have forgotten about you, though....
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by daisydaisy:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I've said it before; I'll say it again. People saying they want children in church is like children saying they want a rabbit. They like the idea, but they soon lose interest when it needs cleaning out, handling, and when it craps on the floor.
Sadly this is too, too true.
We've always been able to manage children who come to church with their parents. The parents are ultimately responsible and other members of the congregation should either be helping, with their permission, or not interfering at all. However, from time to time, we get children arriving without their parents. And that is a completely different situation, especially in these days of heightened awareness of safeguarding matters. How to deal with children who want to come to church, whose parents don't??
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I sit at the front of my Lutheran church. The only people ahead of me are a young mother and her two little boys who are totally wild, playing, talking, laughing, rolling up and down the length of the pew. Last winter, when the weather was bad, the only way I could motivate myself to get ready and go was the thought of seeing those precious little boys.
Twilight - this post is so lovely. Thank you. xx
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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Gwai
Shipmate
# 11076
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Thanks, folks. [coughs embarrassedly] I think maybe a couple of you haven't read the whole thread, or you'd see why I'm worried, and why I'm thinking I need to talk to the pastor again about the new situation. And also why I don't really feel I can quite say "to hell with you" by my actions to long-established members when I'll never be anything but an ongoing visitor. I would do it if we were attending this as our only church. But under the circs, well...
Lamb Chopped, some of us don't see regular attenders as any less valuable than any official member. If you and these children want to attend the church, then you definitely have the right to say to hell with them. Those children are God's people (yes, like everyone else). LL has the right to attend to church and be treated like a human--and of course the responsibility to try to behave within certain rules, but he is trying--and any church member that isn't aware of that has a problem. I can completely see not wanting to push it because I almost left a church myself because I felt my children were a problem for everyone. And then I talked to the person I was the most afraid of and said person had gotten over their issues and completely welcomed us. Don't forget to take the Holy Spirit into account.
[ 17. September 2014, 15:03: Message edited by: Gwai ]
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A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.
Posts: 11914 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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