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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Resources - what has helped you?
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
As some of you know, I have a list of resources that I have discovered on my web site (see sig), but I am always interested in more.
So what writers or speakers have you find that have helped you? Maybe, given you a way of understanding where you are? Or sites/communities who have been supporting?
I will start off with one book - "A Churchless Faith" - which I discovered from the ship, and was fundamental in my change of thinking. It showed me that people who leave the church are not just people on the fringes, but some from the heart, the centre.
And a community - Serum, who are part of the London Moot community. This is a place I can question and discuss, where we can ask serious questions.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Mark Wuntoo
Shipmate
# 5673
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Posted
'Godless for God's Sake' Edited by David Boulton
'Who on earth was Jesus?' by David Boulton
'The case for God' by Karen Armstrong
'God is not great' by Christopher Hitchens
Probably in that order of importance, for me. It didn't seem emotionally difficult reading, even so soon after my serious questioning had began: perhaps I had been 'on the way out' for some time.
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Blessed are the cracked for they let in the light.
Posts: 1950 | From: Somewhere else. | Registered: Mar 2004
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
"Where Shall Wisdom Be Found" - Harold Bloom. A wise discussion of suffering and wisdom of others over the centuries.
Two sets of books by Robertson Davies The Deptford Trilogy where the first boy throws a snowball containing a rock at a second who ducks and hits a woman who then gives birth. A book about each of the three boys, one of them in Jungian analysis. The second set is the unfinished Cornish Trilogy, where one of the two books goes back after the main character is murdered in the first paragraph and reviews the centuries of ancestral influence on him.
These helped me to put perspective on my troubles within present, to the broader context of time and the lives of others. Literature often seems more helpful to me than topic help books.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Jemima the 9th
Shipmate
# 15106
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Posted
I agree about literature. That trilogy sounds fascinating. I also find encouragement from people's lives - I do like the obituary column in the Guardian, and am currently enjoying a biography of Dorothy Hodgkin. Wolf Hall was also encouraging, in an "there's always been politics, you know" sort of way. That's a bit of an understatement.
Re: faith books. I second "A churchless faith" which a friend lent me years ago.
Posts: 801 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2009
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Aravis
Shipmate
# 13824
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Posted
Literature and music.
My musical tastes have expanded over the past 18 months; I've listened predominantly to classical music for most of my life, and sing in an early music choir. However, since going to one of their concerts (the Clockwork Angels tour) I've become addicted to the Canadian band Rush. In various difficult periods over the past two years (issues re family and, to some extent, work) their lyrics have kept me going, and have often made sense to me when the Bible hasn't.
(In case anyone is interested, specific songs are mostly from their late works and include Bravado, Far Cry, Armor and Sword, and everything on the Clockwork Angels album.)
The Clockwork Angels album, incidentally, derives some of its inspiration from the Deptford trilogy, though it's mostly based on Voltaire's Candide.
As for literature, that would be a dissertation, not a post!
Posts: 689 | From: S Wales | Registered: Jun 2008
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DOEPUBLIC
Shipmate
# 13042
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
"Where Shall Wisdom Be Found" - Harold Bloom. A wise discussion of suffering and wisdom of others over the centuries.
Two sets of books by Robertson Davies The Deptford Trilogy where the first boy throws a snowball containing a rock at a second who ducks and hits a woman who then gives birth. A book about each of the three boys, one of them in Jungian analysis. The second set is the unfinished Cornish Trilogy, where one of the two books goes back after the main character is murdered in the first paragraph and reviews the centuries of ancestral influence on him.
These helped me to put perspective on my troubles within present, to the broader context of time and the lives of others. Literature often seems more helpful to me than topic help books.
Robertson Davies
Posts: 2350 | Registered: Oct 2007
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
I am currently working my way through a short self-guided free course someone else told me was "really helpful" - I was skeptical, a veteran of too many shallow "self help, self-knowledge" quizzes.
But now I'm half way through it and I'm awed. For me, it's good. It's about sneaking up on identifying your own core values (bypassing the values you are told should be your primary values) and then working on building them more intentionally into your life activities.
https://www.udemy.com/be-true-find-your-truth-and-live-it/#/
YMMV.
Two of the books that really helped me -
Exit Interviews simply lets believers who left church tell their story. It is just their stories, uncritically presented, without trying to analyze like "Churchless Faith" does. The unjudgmental acceptance, allowing people to speak their truth, was so helpful in the "I'm not alone, I'm not crazy" sense, lots of people have to leave church to find more of God and to grow spiritually!
Sacred Pathways describes nine different equally valid solidly Christian ways people relate to God, of which no church can fully satisfy more than three and partially meet the needs of maybe 5, leaving almost half of all Christians badly misfit in any one church. For example, some are drawn into worship by a sensually rich environment, others find the stained glass windows and smells and bells and stuff seriously distracting or instinctively conveying anti-God messages. Those two people belong in very different churches! Some people - think Desert Fathers and Mothers - probably belong in nothing that would get public recognition as "church."
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
My profile has a reading list of books crammed in. They're all things I've found helpful at various stages of my journey. I think maybe Woman's Book of Spiritual Renewal might be useful. (For men, too.) It's basically for people who have left their faith (not just Christianity) or are unsure, and are trying to figure out what to do next.
FWIW, YMMV.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
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Posted
I found "Leaving Church" by Barbara Brown Taylor really thought-provoking and helpful as I reconsidered all that I had held dear for many a year.
My husband read "Leaving Alexandria" by Richard Holloway and found it to be deeply moving and quite cathartic but very sad too.
We're both still Christians, church goers and workers but the interior landscape is both interesting and constantly changing...and an awful lot freer!
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"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
Posts: 693 | From: UK/ Kenya | Registered: Apr 2013
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
'Dancing on the Edge' by Richard Holloway. Well, most of the book anyway. Strangely, pretty much every book I've read aimed at, or about, the disenchanted or disengaged has resonated with me until the last chapter or so, where the author tries to come to a conclusion about what the church should do about it. That is the point at which it loses me.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
...pretty much every book I've read aimed at, or about, the disenchanted or disengaged has resonated with me until the last chapter or so, where the author tries to come to a conclusion about what the church should do about it. That is the point at which it loses me.
Intriguing observation. Is there a consistent conscious reason - like what they suggest is too shallow to make a difference, or can't be done with available resources, or is inconsistent with what a church is?
Or just, their proposals don't resonate with you, no obvious reason why.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by MrsBeaky:
I found "Leaving Church" by Barbara Brown Taylor really thought-provoking and helpful as I reconsidered all that I had held dear for many a year.
My husband read "Leaving Alexandria" by Richard Holloway and found it to be deeply moving and quite cathartic but very sad too.
We're both still Christians, church goers and workers but the interior landscape is both interesting and constantly changing...and an awful lot freer!
They're both good books but i got the impression that Taylor left because she was overworked (by her own choice) rather than because of issues of belief.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
'Dancing on the Edge' by Richard Holloway. Well, most of the book anyway. Strangely, pretty much every book I've read aimed at, or about, the disenchanted or disengaged has resonated with me until the last chapter or so, where the author tries to come to a conclusion about what the church should do about it. That is the point at which it loses me.
Yes, this is something that I have noticed. I suspect that the reason is that the book is aimed at the church, not at those who left (possibly because that is the only way that it can get published). It often becomes dismissive of the views of those who have left, because the purpose of the book is "how can we stop people leaving", not "how can we help people who don't want church any more".
The focus is on the church, not the people. The focus is on how we can stop people doing what they want to do.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
The focus is on the church, not the people. The focus is on how we can stop people doing what they want to do.
To be fair, perhaps the authors of these books want to conclude by addressing how the church might try to meet these people's needs, rather than simply saying, 'Oh well, they've gone, can't be helped.' After all, churches are often criticised for taking this dismissive attitude!
But I agree that coming up with solutions is the hardest part. We live in such a fractured age that the possibility of churches taking steps that would satisfy large numbers of people in the average western society is highly remote.
Regarding textual resources, I find Christian bookshops sadly wanting in books on how committed lay Christians can find their place in church, let alone outside of it. But I was inspired when I read Frank Viola's books on the organic church movement. I think this sort of thing (with a more British flavour) is where the future of Christian community lies outside the churchy heartlands of Britain.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo;
They're both good books but I got the impression that Taylor left because she was overworked (by her own choice) rather than because of issues of belief.
Yes, I think you're right and that was a large part of it for her.
I also think that expectations in some churches have a considerable part to play in all of this. If you don't work hard at whatever the church deems right then alarm bells ring. And then you are considered "no longer sound" "no longer going for it" "woolly liberal" by some people when you embark on any journey of questioning aspects of how we live the faith, let alone laying it down completely!
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"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
Posts: 693 | From: UK/ Kenya | Registered: Apr 2013
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
In answer to the questions above, I found the books too vague and general about what to do about the problem, and therefore ultimately unconvincing. They are much better at pointing out, and documenting, that there IS a problem, than they are at finding solutions.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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