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Source: (consider it) Thread: The Metagame for The Kavetseki Incident
Eliab
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# 9153

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Gunriana has no skill in commerce, but is from a trading family. Does the name Arnulf de Nemo mean anything to her?

(And is John pitying Gunriana's betrothed for missing out on life with so astute and desireable a companion, or for being in danger of marrying such a creature in the first place?)

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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"

Richard Dawkins

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Antisocial Alto
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I don't think I have any knowledge of the diving incident or the business deal around it, but would my ***mercer's knowledge*** be of any help here?
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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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quote:
Originally posted by Eliab:
Gunriana has no skill in commerce, but is from a trading family. Does the name Arnulf de Nemo mean anything to her?

(And is John pitying Gunriana's betrothed for missing out on life with so astute and desireable a companion, or for being in danger of marrying such a creature in the first place?)

Afraid not, Mary is probably right that it is a fake name - you've never heard anyone in your family mention it.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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quote:
Originally posted by Antisocial Alto:
I don't think I have any knowledge of the diving incident or the business deal around it, but would my ***mercer's knowledge*** be of any help here?

Yes, please roll at ***easy*** difficulty, then post your result here and I will do you an outcome post.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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quote:
Originally posted by Hart:
Not sure how to answer Gunriana's question. Does Dorainen remember anything about the chest, or how he got recruited as diver?

You remember being recruited for the dive and bringing up the chest, you did not open it. Feel free to describe however your character would most naturally tell his experiences, but please be consistent with what the previous characters have said (sand colour, de Nemo etc).

[ 06. June 2014, 17:17: Message edited by: Doublethink ]

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Ariston
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So, what does Jetse remember of the transaction, given that he was on deck? While I can see him making a point of not asking questions to keep himself out of trouble, I'm pretty sure he would have been watching everything very carefully.

And related to that: how much of what he remembers can he actually tell anyone?

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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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Its all pre-storm so he can tell other party members whatever he remembers (not NPCs though cos he can't tell them he was on the Kavetseki) -so long as it does not contradict what has been said before on the story thread, I am happy for you to devise that.

(Its like the Orthodox attitude to tradition, you can add but not takeaway or factually contradict - with GM statements as creedal [Big Grin] )

[ 06. June 2014, 17:32: Message edited by: Doublethink ]

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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quote:
Originally posted by Eliab:
Gunriana has no skill in commerce, but is from a trading family. Does the name Arnulf de Nemo mean anything to her?

(And is John pitying Gunriana's betrothed for missing out on life with so astute and desireable a companion, or for being in danger of marrying such a creature in the first place?)

Clarification - you don't need to roll - so you still have today's roll.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Antisocial Alto
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Rolled an 8.
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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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Success, Yay !

You know that De Nemo has sometimes been used as a cover name by the Gaslough smuggling gang, a sort of fall back identity for guard's enquiries at town gates etc. They have a couple of these, and retire these identities if they attract too much attention from the authorities.

Reputable merchants houses, such as the De Vanes, would not have anything to do with smuggling gangs (or rather the owners wouldn't, the odd one of their warehousemen might have had dealings) - those lower down the tree, are not so choosy.

Please do an outcome post. (You may reveal as much or as little as you like.)

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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New GM Day

Tis a weekend so about more over the next two days

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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Er can roll if he wants, or save his roll.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Curiosity killed ...

Ship's Mug
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Pause for consultation - we'll save the roll as it seems the GM would prefer that.

I guess the other option is to look for a place to sleep?

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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat

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Curious Kitten
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Can I do a ***well travelled*** role to workout how many days travel it is to the road?

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Happiness is not having what we want but wanting what we have.

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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OK - easy difficulty. Let me know your result.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Curious Kitten
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quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
OK - easy difficulty. Let me know your result.

14

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Happiness is not having what we want but wanting what we have.

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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Nice one, you think that in most places the main route is about 5 miles inland, your party has now been on the move for about an hour - so it should not be more than two hours maximum, depending on your speed.

Please do an outcome post.

[ 07. June 2014, 21:57: Message edited by: Doublethink ]

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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New GM day.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Autenrieth Road

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Fellow players, Frithwynne has a Navigation skill which might get us somewhere, and an Intuition skill that might get us some sense of what we should do. Let me know if you want her to use one of them.

The beach made sense to me as a player, but I have no idea what to do in the woods. Keep wandering around and wait for something to happen? Do we know where we're going? Do the characters need to reach agreement on where we're going?

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Truth

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Eliab
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quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Do we know where we're going? Do the characters need to reach agreement on where we're going?

AFAIK, no one has yet spoken against the idea of going north to Cimenster - the question is whether to go north directly (cross-country) or east to the main road, then north.

The consensus appears to be to make for the road. There's disagreement about how close to approach it in the dark: Jetse, remembering his training, is thinking that there might be brigands stealing from people; Gunriana, remembering her heritage, is thinking that if it comes to it, there may be people to steal from.

As players I think we need to be aware that this is the sort of decision that is hard to make in this medium. If the group needs to do something involving everybody, and must make a choice about it, working out that enough people are going with the plan is problematic. To a certain extent this is unavoidable, but players need to be quick to state disagreement with a plan in story or meta, so it is clear if there is NOT a consensus.

Some tabletop games recommended that a party have an IC leader (or OOC caller) to say definitively what the group as a whole is doing. Mary Drake would be the obvious IC choice, I think, if we want someone who can tell DT that she thinks we've reached a consensus (and then anyone in disagreement who's not prepared to go along complaining about whatever bad idea the rest of us have made has the responsibility to post that they are not cooperating with that. Otherwise, DT can take it that it's happening).

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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"

Richard Dawkins

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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The other option is for me to context post more often, assuming that if no disagreement is posted the party are going with some variant of what has already been said. This would move the story on a bit quicker, but would mean I take away a bit of the characters' choice - do you want me to do that ?

I could commit to context post a minimum of once per GM day.

(I am less keen on a caller, because it makes the party dependent on that persons availability - which is a bigger ask for the player - and also has the potential for problematic in group dynamics.)

[ 08. June 2014, 08:39: Message edited by: Doublethink ]

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Eliab
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# 9153

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I'm not unhappy with the current pace, to be honest. I just think all of us (as players) need to be aware that group decisions are harder in an RPG like this than in a face to face game.

In a table top game, this would have happened:

"Someone: I think we should go to Cimenster. That's north, right?

Someone else: Yeah. We'll go north.

Yet someone else: Hang on - the main road's east. We should find the road and THEN go north.

Someone: OK, we do that.

Everyone else: (no comment)

GM: OK, two hours walking brings you to the road. What you see is..."

The difference here is that there's no equivalent of the "Everyone else: (no comment)" that allows a tabletop GM to discern that the players have a consensus. If I don't post here to object to a trek east, it might be that Gunriana agrees and has nothing to add to the plan, or it might be that she strongly disagrees, but I've not been at a keyboard for 12 hours. To a large extent, this is unavoidable, and inevitably means that group decisions will be far slower than individual ones. As long as we all are aware of this, and post accordingly (especially when we disagree with a proposed course of action), we should be OK.

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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"

Richard Dawkins

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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It certainly will take longer I agree.

Also, there will be situations where a context post could say, "and a few days later the party reach castle greyskull" - we don't need to model all mundane actions.

If your character goes to the loo, we don't need to know, if they decide to leave a guarded camp at 3 am and go to the dark wooded area over there to do preserve their modesty when they go to the loo - then we probably do need to know.

Anything described by player or GM pulls story focus and becomes important to a certain extent, by virtue of the fact you have bothered to mention it. I am not sure that, adventuring the in new medium, all the players always realise how powerful this narrative effect is.

At the moment I am not jumping time much because I want everyone to get the hang of things before dropping you into more complex situations - especially as we have new players finding their feet.

[ 08. June 2014, 09:32: Message edited by: Doublethink ]

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Net Spinster
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# 16058

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Not sure who is around but Mary's stumble can either be temporary and she continues or an opportunity for the party to stop and discuss. Play it as you will.

BTW I'm not sure of time of year though Clawdine's mention of berries and sugar apples assumes summer unless they have an unusual growing season.

[ 08. June 2014, 12:40: Message edited by: Net Spinster ]

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spinner of webs

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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505

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A couple of observations. Moving the players suddenly from one scene to another will be harder for those of us who are 'inhabiting' our characters in a practical rather than magical way. The lack of continuity will probably bother a few of us, but if the GM does not do this, we could end up taking a week to walk two miles with the only activity being our small talk about the scenery.

The GM days are passing quickly, and with hardly any rolling of dice needed, it seems. I would much prefer some obstacles or booby traps awaiting some of us each day, so that about half of us are challenged one GM day and the others the next.

Premature aging, falls, blood loss, fainting, disorientation, lack of sleep/food/booze etc could make survival a little more interesting, IMHO. A bit like life points in a simple video game.

Just my two bits worth.

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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.

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Curious Kitten
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We're after the road rather than making our way to Cimenster by stumbling through the forest because Er has skills that means a likely hook of making money in taverns. Neither Curiousity Killed... nor I have any preference about sleeping in the woods or trying to make our way to the road first.

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Happiness is not having what we want but wanting what we have.

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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That and the contents of the nun's vision presumably.

Bannerlady, I take your point about incident but I can not guarantee that regularity due to player posting intervals.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Dafyd
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quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
The other option is for me to context post more often, assuming that if no disagreement is posted the party are going with some variant of what has already been said.

I think perhaps if you give notice that unless someone objects you'll move things on? Say perhaps half a day?

[ 08. June 2014, 17:13: Message edited by: Dafyd ]

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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Sounds like a plan - I will context post at the new GM day unless we have become in the midst of something.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Adam.

Like as the
# 4991

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quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Sounds like a plan - I will context post at the new GM day unless we have become in the midst of something.

Sounds good to me. I think as players we're kind of spinning our wheels now until we get some new stimulus. FWIW, Dorainen suggested spending the night in the woods, but his lack of charm means his voice doesn't carry much weight when he's not speaking about something he's a particular expert on. He'll keep walking as long as the party does.

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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
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Banner Lady
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# 10505

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The difficulty of irregular player posting intervals in a global RPG is an interesting thing for a host to have to juggle.

I really like the fact that our characters now have some gifts they can call on at anytime, anywhere and don't have to wait to roll for them. But as we've been roaming around on a beach, and now through a wood, I find myself thinking of other possibilities for interaction without waiting for a roll. Like every GM day choosing players to comment on something from the world they inhabit, in accordance with the skills they possess.

EG: Clawdine's turn, and she is able to *find a hidden object* today. She, Gunriana, Jetse, & Er are able to comment on it.

I might therefore post: Clawdine sees Mary stumble and realizes she's tripped over a smokestone. What is a smokestone? Gunriana states that it is only found where a dragon has lain a place waste in the past. Jetse says it is the best stuff to sharpen a blade on. Er says he's heard they are worth quite a bit in certain market places. Clawdine says if you touch it with your bare hands it turns your bones to charcoal.

None or some of these may be true (the GM could roll four times to tell us the outcome of each comment), but it would be a way of interacting, gaining knowledge, sharing loot etc while we are moving through a GM day.

[ 08. June 2014, 20:52: Message edited by: Banner Lady ]

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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.

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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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Rolless interactions that are not key decisions are fine. But we can't have multiple rolls per player I just can't process that many a day.

One o the reasons not so many things are happening at the moment us because you are not yet interacting with other characters in the world.

That will change soon.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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Roll at ***easy*** difficulty please Autnreith Road.

[ 08. June 2014, 22:33: Message edited by: Doublethink ]

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Autenrieth Road

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9, hooray!

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Truth

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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Woot, you realise that if you keep going, you might reach the road in time to join the caravan Mother Aethelreda saw in her vision - the caravan will likely have guards and offer some protection from brigands etc - but you will need to approach in a way designed not to cause alarm.

(Might need to agree how to persuade them to let you join too, but then you all have many skills ...)

[ 08. June 2014, 22:45: Message edited by: Doublethink ]

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Autenrieth Road

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Awesome!

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Truth

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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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Looks around in mild surprise at the dents in the floor from previously dropped hints. Smiles benignly as AR carries off the shiny new hint.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Awesome!

Forgot to say please outcome post !

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Autenrieth Road

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Yes, indeed, I'm working on the outcome post.

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Truth

Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
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# 1984

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Fab thanks.

New GM Day

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Autenrieth Road

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Outcome post finished.

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Truth

Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
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# 1984

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I have done a context post, party is about a half hour from the lights.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Autenrieth Road

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AR spots a hint lodged in a deep dent in the floor, picks it up and lobs it to Frithwynne.

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Truth

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Net Spinster
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# 16058

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Mary lobs back.

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spinner of webs

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Adam.

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# 4991

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I won't have much time to post tomorrow, but I will check in. Dorainen is shy around humans he doesn't know after having made one too many cultural faux-pas, so will be pretty silent once we meet the party. He has just offered his services as a bargaining tool if needed, though.

Would someone with high-ranking elan be able to use this to make a persuasion roll?

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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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Well, we have much discussion but no actions yet ...

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Autenrieth Road

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I think we're waiting for the rest of the crew to show up on the Story thread. Unless Er wants to just charge ahead and make the ***silver-tongued*** approach. But I'm fine with waiting a full day to see who shows up and weighs in.

You had suggested making a context post each GM day, but I think that might hurry us a little too much, chivvying us from scene to scene without giving us time to figure out as players what's going on and figure out what (individual) character actions might make sense.

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Truth

Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
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# 1984

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I am happy to give it a day.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Autenrieth Road

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Everyone except Daniel and Jetse has spoken, (I hadn't realized so many of us had already posted), and everyone so far has spoken in a way that agrees to Mary's plan.

Interesting to think about the IC leadership dynamics.

Someone somewhere mentioned a band of 12 characters, now 11 with Jack gone. But by my count we started out with 11 characters, and are now 10. I mention this in case anyone else is like me, trying to keep track by counting up characters from time to time. Unless Frithwynne missed someone when she thought through the group's members in the woods?

[ 09. June 2014, 19:13: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]

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Truth

Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Adam.

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# 4991

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quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Well, we have much discussion but no actions yet ...

I can't speak for others, but I think the discussion was all planning for what we do when the caravan gets within earshot. Maybe I'm misunderstanding how the world is meant to be controlled, but I didn't think it was really within our (PC) remit to post something like, "and then the caravan got close enough to hear us, we waived frantically and I shouted out, 'blah blah blah.'" I'd been more waiting for you to do something like that. Let me know if I'm getting this wrong.

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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog

Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged



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