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Source: (consider it) Thread: How good is your Revspeak?
Albertus
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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
One of our worship leaders is keen on the term 'Son worship' which sounds way too Aztec for my liking.

Perhaps you should invite him/her to meet you at the top of a pyramid, and bring along your sharpest knife.
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Offeiriad

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Dear everybody, this is wonderful, keep it up: I am learning so much about how to phrase our Parish Profile to find the right minister [Devil]

Talking of which, what the hell does Collaborative Ministry mean? Do you believe in collaborative ministry? Yes, collaborate with me or else: I Am The Vicar...

Without stretching it's meaning, this meaningless phrase can be affirmed by every kind of Vicar from a Human Floormat to Stalin's Hit Man. And don't get me started on Affirming.....

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Ricardus
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quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:

Community

Especially if it's a 'gathered community'.

Which I think means 'most of the electoral roll live outside the parish boundaries', but I may be wrong.

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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)

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Offeiriad

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'Gathered community' = 'Religious Club'. I heard one such 'church' described recently as a Yacht Club with hymns ....
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The Midge
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quote:
Originally posted by Offeiriad:

Talking of which, what the hell does Collaborative Ministry mean? Do you believe in collaborative ministry? Yes, collaborate with me or else: I Am The Vicar...

Without stretching it's meaning, this meaningless phrase can be affirmed by every kind of Vicar from a Human Floormat to Stalin's Hit Man. And don't get me started on Affirming.....

It could mean that the Church Wardens or the PCC or even the person who runs the flower rota is really in charge.

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Some days you are the fly.
On other days you are the windscreen.

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Dal Segno

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"going through a season of XXX" - why is it always a "season," rather than the more common "time" or "period"?

"we will now have a time of prayer" = "we will now pray"

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Yet ever and anon a trumpet sounds

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Dafyd
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Never use the words 'country' or 'nation', or 'people' when the words 'land' or 'folk' will do, nor when they won't do.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by Dal Segno:
"going through a season of XXX" - why is it always a "season," rather than the more common "time" or "period"?

"we will now have a time of prayer" = "we will now pray"

Isn't it often a 'Season of £££'?

(insert currency symbol to taste)

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Enoch
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Some more,

"Inclusive" - Very useful word as highly ambiguous. Can mean anything from 'we let non-conformists take communion' to 'gay friendly' to 'we have a hearing aid loop'.

"Servant leader" - meant to resonate with Lk 22:26-27, which is a very important statement by Jesus and one which almost nobody takes as seriously as they should. But what do users of the phrase mean by it?

"Passionate' - particularly good word to use if one doesn't go on to say what you or someone else is passionate about.

"Mission community" - good phrase to use as it pairs up two words that are both already a big temptation to fluent Revspeakers.


Offered, speaking slightly cynically, collaborative ministry is quite a good phrase to put in an advert. These days, nobody dares claim they don't believe in it. Very few clergy will openly say that they believe that 'Father knows best' is of the essence of ministry. But its very woolliness does mean you can use it to tease quite a lot out of applicants at interview by asking them how they understand it.

Mind, the average clerical job advert is looking for an array of skills and personal qualities that very few canonised saints could meet.

[ 09. January 2015, 14:35: Message edited by: Enoch ]

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Stercus Tauri
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Our minister heard some confounded motivational speaker rattle on about coconut and peach congregations, meaning ones that were tough or easy to penetrate. I objected on the grounds that if you bite on a peach stone you're going to break your teeth anyway, but, as usual, was told that I just didn't understand. So now he's got everyone (except me) talking about how we aspire to be a peachy congregation. I barf.

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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
Our minister heard some confounded motivational speaker rattle on about coconut and peach congregations, meaning ones that were tough or easy to penetrate. I objected on the grounds that if you bite on a peach stone you're going to break your teeth anyway, but, as usual, was told that I just didn't understand. So now he's got everyone (except me) talking about how we aspire to be a peachy congregation. I barf.

Is that a fresh peach or canned peach congo? They do differ.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Angloid
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quote:
Originally posted by Offeiriad:
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Revs (and other preachers) used to use the phrase 'please be seated', at intervals during the service. I guess they thought that sounded too churchy, because they now say 'please take a seat'. I'm surprised we have any left.

I was actually teased at a church event for my habit of saying 'please sit' or 'please sit down' instead of the 'proper' 'please be seated'. I was not amused. [Mad]
This is one of the things which grates on me because it sounds so parsonical. You can imagine the vicar in Dad's Army saying 'please be seated.' But even worse is when clergy say 'would you like to be seated?' or 'Shall we stand to sing…?"

Anyway, it leads to a different (and Ecclesiantical) tangent: why so many pointless stage directions in the middle of a service?

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Firenze

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You can't just go 'Siiiiit. Sit! Good congo!' No?
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

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Calling the building a "Worship Center" or "Praise Center". Whatever happened to "Church"?

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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

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Enoch
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quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
Our minister heard some confounded motivational speaker rattle on about coconut and peach congregations, meaning ones that were tough or easy to penetrate. I objected on the grounds that if you bite on a peach stone you're going to break your teeth anyway, but, as usual, was told that I just didn't understand. So now he's got everyone (except me) talking about how we aspire to be a peachy congregation. I barf.

Permit me to vomit.

Likewise Miss Amanda's
quote:
Calling the building a "Worship Center" or "Praise Center".


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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

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ExclamationMark
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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
"Mission community" - good phrase to use as it pairs up two words that are both already a big temptation to fluent Revspeakers.

Naughty Enoch - you've not been listening to Uncle Alan in class again, have you? Remember you must add " -al" to words, as often as you possibly can. If you can change your name to Al it might help.

So repeat after me, it's not Mission Community but "Missional Community." There: easy isn't it?

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ExclamationMark
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"Folk(s)" - far too twee and reminiscent of some vile type of finger in the ear music all about May mornings and September evenings when you go out but don't actually travel anywhere.

Get real: it's "people". I have told Mrs Mark that if I ever use the "f ..." word when referring to people, she will gain a good sense reward if she kills me on the spot.

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Piglet
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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
... Likewise Miss Amanda's
quote:
Calling the building a "Worship Center" or "Praise Center".

That most certainly makes the Baby Jesus cry.

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

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Firenze

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<tangent>
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
"Folk(s)" - far too twee and reminiscent of some vile type of finger in the ear music all about May mornings and September evenings when you go out but don't actually travel anywhere.

If it's a May morning* it's normally for the purpose of fornication. I can't offhand think of any autumnal outings.

*Hurrah! Hurrah! The first of May!
Outdoor sex begins today!


</tangent>

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Cottontail

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'Gifting'. As in "He has a gifting for pastoral ministry", or "We should be empowering everyone to use their giftings."

The word is GIFT. [Mad]

And to go with 'verbing, what about 'nouning'? I mean the penchant in prayer or hymns for a list of compound names for God, all ending in -er. I think it is meant to make God sound all dynamic. There is a hymn in CH4 which addresses the Holy Spirit variously as:

gift bestower
love inspirer
joy releaser
peace restorer
Christ proclaimer
wisdom bringer
ease disturber
comfort bearer
truth revealer
faith confirmer


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Albertus
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quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:


*Hurrah! Hurrah! The first of May!
Outdoor sex begins today!


</tangent>

1 May 1963, then?
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Eutychus
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quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
That most certainly makes the Baby Jesus cry.

Good Christians don't cry, they weep.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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bib
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I always cringe at the request to "kindly stand". I wonder how you go about unkindly standing.

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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"

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cosmic dance
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From my neck of the woods I offer:
"appropriately vulnerable" - ready to share your darkest secrets at a moment's notice to prove your commitment and sincerity.
"deeply impacted" - it made an impression on me at the time.

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Photo Geek
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The use of the word "anointing" when no oil is involved definitely makes the baby Jesus cry.

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Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
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quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:


*Hurrah! Hurrah! The first of May!
Outdoor sex begins today!


</tangent>

1 May 1963, then?
We should stop larkin' about.
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Jolly Jape
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Not sure what y'all find so objectionable about good old English words such as "folk" and "land". Personally, I think they're preferable to the equivalent words of French origin, and have certainly been around a lot longer in this land.

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To those who have never seen the flow and ebb of God's grace in their lives, it means nothing. To those who have seen it, even fleetingly, even only once - it is life itself. (Adeodatus)

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:


*Hurrah! Hurrah! The first of May!
Outdoor sex begins today!


</tangent>

1 May 1963, then?
We should stop larkin' about.
I remember my Dad saying a variant of that, which included the F word. How apt.

--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Enoch
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Cosmic Dance, yes, "vulnerable" used as a desirable attribute is Revspeak. It goes with 'finding one's inner child'. And, yes, Cottontail, in Revspeak give (verb) and gift (noun) have developed peculiar permutations, none of which extend the use of English in any valuable way. "Let us give thanks for X who has gifted the church with a lawn-mower'.

Perhaps some of us need a 'gifting of missional vulnerability' - or is that 'vulnerable missionality' - or is there any difference?


On sitting down, there's always the slightly jocular phrase, 'take a pew'. Pews only exist where Revspeak is spoken.


An extra query. Is there something significant about 1st May 1963? It's well within my lifetime but I can't remember anything particular happening that day. The most well known date that year was 22nd November.

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Dafyd
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# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Is there something significant about 1st May 1963?

Sexual intercourse began
In nineteen sixty three
(Which was rather late for me)

Philip Larkin

(The 1st May arises out of the context of the thread.)

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Enoch
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quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Is there something significant about 1st May 1963?

Sexual intercourse began
In nineteen sixty three
(Which was rather late for me)

Philip Larkin

(The 1st May arises out of the context of the thread.)

Thank you for that. My brain must be slowing down. I was fixated on the assumption that it must be something specific about the day. I didn't think of the year.

[ 10. January 2015, 11:41: Message edited by: Enoch ]

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Pyx_e

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This thread holds a sick fascination. I spot two I use a lot. Context is Key (another great one).

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Chocoholic
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Is anyone designing a revspeak bingo card to use tomorrow?
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Enoch
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quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
This thread holds a sick fascination. I spot two I use a lot. Context is Key (another great one).

Pyx_e, are you prepared to admit which ones?!! As a matter of interest, are you or anyone else prepared to stick their head over the parapet and defend any of these expressions?


Chocaholic, what a lovely idea.

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Eirenist
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'Commingling' goes back to John Milton; in Paradise Lost the angels enjoy 'a sweet commingling'. Philip Pullman's angels in 'His Dark Materials' probably do it quite a lot.

And how about 'Hold before God' meaning 'Pray for'?

For sitting down and standing up, my Vicar uses 'If you would stand/sit . . .' Oh, and I mustn't forget 'We will now sing together Hymn . . . ' as opposed presumably to singing a verse each.

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Thyme
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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
This thread holds a sick fascination. I spot two I use a lot. Context is Key (another great one).

Pyx_e, are you prepared to admit which ones?!! As a matter of interest, are you or anyone else prepared to stick their head over the parapet and defend any of these expressions?


Chocaholic, what a lovely idea.

Not defending them, or not all of them, but I find the directions to sit, stand, sing, say together, etc very helpful, both as congregation member and when leading. Especially when there are people present who aren't familiar with things. It is very embarrassing for people to be left sitting or standing when others aren't. Especially if they are at the front. Even worse if you start singing and it's just the choir.

I have always felt much more comfortable with clear directions, thinking it is a courtesy.

But you can't just say "sit", "stand", or whatever. What form of words is acceptable? Any suggestions?

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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog

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leo
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# 1458

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One that was beloved in free churches was about 'the stewards will now wait upon your offerings'.

And I love it when their service sheets announce 'the benediction' - it's not how I use the term.

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My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
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quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:


Anyway, it leads to a different (and Ecclesiantical) tangent: why so many pointless stage directions in the middle of a service?

Because some people get really pissy when they're left standing looking round them, and all the 'in-crowd' have sat down. Visitors really hate that - and in churches where there is a bit of a variety of worship-leader - and practice therefore varies - even regulars dislike being put on the back-foot by unusual and badly signposted congregational choreography.

It is also a fact that there will always be a small core of even the most regular attender who will never remember from one week's end to the next to sit/stand/leave at the appropriate point unless someone tells him/her to. Including, sadly, the odd cleric who manages to make even the most routine act of liturgy look like something he's never seen in his life before, rather than something he's been performing professionaly for the last fifteen years.

Small, exclusively attended acts of worship tend not to need prompts, fair enough. But sometimes it's just plain friendly and practical to indicate when certain physical things observed by everyone, need to happen at certain times of the service. Though some services really ought to flow without interruption if possible.

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Enoch
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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
One that was beloved in free churches was about 'the stewards will now wait upon your offerings'. ...

Yes, that's a gem. Do they get a tip for collecting it?. As is referring to part of the collection, usually the bit that isn't in envelopes, as the 'freewill offering'. What's the rest, pew-rent?

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
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"An offering will be received" is similar. Why not "A collection will be taken up."

Reminds me of the old joke about the altar boy named Dominic, who thought that the priest, whenever he said "Dominus vobiscum" was actually saying "Dominic, go frisk 'em", and so he took up the collection.

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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Jengie jon

Semper Reformanda
# 273

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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
One that was beloved in free churches was about 'the stewards will now wait upon your offerings'.


Nope it is not. It is only Methodists who'd use that the rest of us do not have stewards.

Jengie

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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge

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seasick

...over the edge
# 48

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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
One that was beloved in free churches was about 'the stewards will now wait upon your offerings'.

And I love it when their service sheets announce 'the benediction' - it's not how I use the term.

I remember that from growing up. My standard phrase, which I also grew up with, is "We will receive your offerings for the work of God in this Church and Circuit."

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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley

Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128

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Hang on, I thought that the offering had to be "uplifted". But perhaps that is only true in congregations where the Minister says, "Let us now be upstanding and singing the hymn no. 123 ...".

Has anyone had "journeying mercies" prayed upon them? - although I don't think that is necessarily Revspeak.

Of course, visiting preachers find it "a joy and a privilege to be here this morning". (Or, if they don't, they don't let on). However it is Church Secretaries who say that "it is good to have new faces worshipping with us today, and we look forward to shaking hands with them afterwards".

[ 10. January 2015, 19:18: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]

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Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:

Has anyone had "journeying mercies" prayed upon them? - although I don't think that is necessarily Revspeak.

Travelling mercies. (Which I always visualised as a sort of wheeled box).

Also, no one was ever merely ill - they were laid aside on beds of sickness.

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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356

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This is wonderfully reminiscent of Myles nagCopaleen's great Catechism of Cliche (Google will find you various extracts).
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322

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quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
... Has anyone had "journeying mercies" prayed upon them? - although I don't think that is necessarily Revspeak.,,,,

Does it meet any of the following tests from the OP?
quote:
it is incomprehensible to ordinary people. ... And it's very beneficial if the words are befuddling but give you a nice gooey holy feeling as they come out of your mouth.

But Revspeak is particularly good if it can take ordinary words and use them in ways that don't fit with how ordinary people use them and don't make sense to them.

It's Revspeak all right.

[ 10. January 2015, 21:08: Message edited by: Enoch ]

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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

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Offeiriad

Ship's Arboriculturalist
# 14031

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I remember reading somewhere of a minister who realised he'd swallowed some kind of Revspeak dictionary when someone asked him which bus to take for a particular destination.

Bus number two hundred and sixty-seven, he replied. The two hundred and sixty-seventh bus. (Pause) Two. Six. Seven.

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Pyx_e

Quixotic Tilter
# 57

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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
This thread holds a sick fascination. I spot two I use a lot. Context is Key (another great one).

Pyx_e, are you prepared to admit which ones?!! As a matter of interest, are you or anyone else prepared to stick their head over the parapet and defend any of these expressions?
"Cosmic dance." is the one I will admit to. Not always using the cosmic word but certainly my sermons are littered with dance analogies. For me the music/dance analogy works to describe Kingdom Grace.
quote

I don't let on it's a possible Nietzsche quote.

[ 10. January 2015, 21:42: Message edited by: Pyx_e ]

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It is better to be Kind than right.

Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128

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quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Also, no one was ever merely ill - they were laid aside on beds of sickness.

They were also "under the doctor"!
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged
Piglet
Islander
# 11803

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quote:
Originally posted by Offeiriad:
... Bus number two hundred and sixty-seven, he replied. The two hundred and sixty-seventh bus. (Pause) Two. Six. Seven.

[Killing me]

That reminds me of D's favourite piece of cricket commentary (I'm paraphrasing, as I can't find the exact quotation):
quote:
And England are on 106 - that's There is a green hill far away.
(in the English Hymnal). [Big Grin]

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

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