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Source: (consider it) Thread: Most important band in the history of popular music
Alan Cresswell

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Well, that's how Andy McCluskey (lead singer of Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark) described Kraftwerk, that they changed the world more than the Beetles. BBC Radio 5 clip

Any other candidates?

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Eutychus
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It depends a lot on whether one is considering the influence of the musical style (Kraftwerk would be a good contender on that score, I agree) or on the industry as a whole.

I think the Sex Pistols are good contenders on both counts.
quote:
their importance—both to the direction of contemporary music and more generally to pop culture—can hardly be overstated


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Lord Jestocost
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Thotch.
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I'd opt for Bill Haley and His Comets.

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L'organist
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Popular Music? That'd be The Beatles who proved that you can write catchy tunes with memorable lyrics and still have some musical worth and credibility.

Straight rock? Bachman-Turner Overdrive.

Progressive/experimental? Got to be Focus - anyone who thinks that Mr Oldfield and his bells 'sprang out of nowhere' should listen to the first two Focus albums, especially Focus II (sometimes called Moving Waves.

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Albertus
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I'm going to go back much further than that and put in a bid for the Original Dixieland Jass Band

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Horseman Bree
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For effect on getting people to try actually playing music, I'd go with the Beatles. Hardly anyone in school now who learns much music without some Beatle tunes in the mix.

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St. Gwladys
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The Police - bridged the gap from Punk with good musicianship and clever lyrics.

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by St. Gwladys:
The Police - bridged the gap from Punk with good musicianship and clever lyrics.

If any band did that it would have to be Squeeze. Best songwriting since The Beatles and The Kinks, good musicians but I wouldn't rate either them or The Police as the most important.

The only band to rival the Beatles for material, skill and variety has to be The Rolling Stones, and they have longevity on their side too.

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I do think that Kraftwerk made a substantial impact on introducing electronica into listenable music.

I also think Jimi Hendrix should be up for a shot, for showing that you can do more with a guitar than most groups were at the time. Every band who rocks the guitar has a nod towards him.

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

The only band to rival the Beatles for material, skill and variety has to be The Rolling Stones, and they have longevity on their side too.

Ooh, no. Not IMO. The Beatles were innovators, the Stones were implimenters. They have had more staying power, but it has resulted in a vast desert of mediocrity sparsely populated by only a few blooms of worth. They have largely served as their own best tribute band.
Don't get me wrong, I love the Stones. But for what they are.

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Some bands are influential. But that's not importance. What would popular music culture be without drunken karaoke renditions of Queen?

[ 22. January 2015, 18:18: Message edited by: Dafyd ]

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
Some bands are influential. But that's not importance.

Um, what? Influence defines importance within the context of this discussion.

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Palimpsest
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I can't imagine what "important" means? How do you compare across time periods and genres? Number of people? Passion of Fans? Influence on other Musicians? Most money made by the record company? Most money made by the musicians? Longest lived career? Bands which matter to the Boomer generation?


Uncredited but influential, The Wrecking Crew played a huge number of hits as anonymous studio musicians.

The DVD is finally coming out in March but the website has the trailer.

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Timothy the Obscure

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To me, "important" means that music wouldn't be the same if they'd never existed. there are plenty of good bands who aren't that important in that sense. The Beatles are certainly the most important in my lifetime, in that they saved rock & roll from near-fatal doldrums (without them it could very well have proved to be just a fad), invented the band as collective rather than star-and-sidemen, revolutionized the role of the recording studio in popular music, and more. Before them, I'd point to the Benny Goodman Orchestra of the mid-1930s, Louis Armstrong's Hot Five, and I suppose (though it makes me shudder slightly) the Original Dixieland Jazz Band. the Carter Family in country music.

Kraftwerk were important in a way, but their impact was delayed about 20 years, and electronica remains a peripheral subgenre, however passionate some people are about it. They didn't really change the course of mainstream popular music in any major sense--the increased use of synthesizers did not happen because musicians wanted to imitate "Autobahn."

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no prophet's flag is set so...

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It's hard to single it down. The Beatles and Beach Boys were competing with each other re new sounds. All the 1960s and 70s people always credit Elvis and Bob Dylan. But if most important equate with staying with us, I agree with the Beatles and Stones.

It is interesting that I cannot think of a song name let alone a tune for some of the bands mentioned. Re BTO (and The Guess Who), Randy Bachman has a long-running CBC radio show, Vinyl Tap which does all sorts of interesting themed shows. I think you can stream it or get on sat radio.

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Horseman Bree
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Having been through the whole works since pre-Elvis, I'll stick with the Beatles, but add Bob Dylan as the individual who had the largest effect.

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Fr Weber
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The Velvet Underground. Not many people bought their records, but apparently everyone who did started a band.

Also, they were a post-punk group before punk itself existed.

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Piglet
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How could they be "post-punk" if punk hadn't happened yet? [Big Grin]

I can't say I've really studied the subject - there are lots of bands whose influence was important to popular culture - but I understand that if you ask many rock musicians (especially guitarists) who was their greatest influence most of them will say Jimi Hendrix.

[ 23. January 2015, 01:58: Message edited by: Piglet ]

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Golden Key
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1. Beatles.

2. ABBA--simply because their music always makes me happy.

3. The Monkees. Per something I saw on TV, there was a time when they were up there with both the Beatles and the Stones. And there was Davy (RIP).

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Timothy the Obscure

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Actually, I would say the Monkees are an example of a good, popular, but unimportant band (and I'm a fan). Setting aside the "Pre-fab Four" bullshit (so they didn't play on their first two records--that was nothing out of the ordinary, just how records were made in LA in those days--it was an assembly line and the special skill set of session players was needed), they didn't set any musical trends (except that they were the first pop group to use a Moog synthesizer).

BTO is another--lots of hits, but they never influenced anybody of consequence, and if they had never existed the history of rock would be about the same.

Velvet Underground does make the "important" list in spite of being a commercial failure. I suppose the Ramones as well, though I never liked them much. Kiss is on the "big but unimportant" list. Aerosmith likewise (just a Stones tribute band at heart). REM was important, the B-52s just a quirky cult favorite. Dire Straits a brilliant outlier, the Yardbirds mostly unimportant as a band in spite of the importance of their ex-guitarists. One could go on...

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Rosa Winkel

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A lot of good music is influenced by Black Sabbath.

My belief that rock and metal has blues roots is supported by something that Tony Iommi said, when he said that he was influenced by blues records, 78's, where the names were not always written on the records. There are a ton of Black bluesmen who are lost in the deep mists of time, like some kind of pre-earth mix of bacteria in water; we tend to forget that that was the start. Of course, people like Public Enemy would call Elvis Presley racist for copying bluesmen's music and styles but not acknowledging them.

Within blues there were people like Big Joe Turner and Lead Belly, but there are plenty of lesser known bluesmen who are part of something more influential than any 1970s pop band.

With no blues, metal, rock and jazz would either not exist or by massively different.

I wonder though, what, other than slavery was influential upon blues.

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la vie en rouge
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Are we talking about pop or rock? Because if it’s the former, I’m going to put in a vote here for the Beegees. I don’t know how many people really admit to being their fans, but I think they did have a massive influence on much of the commercial pop that followed them.

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Mr Clingford
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Jestocost:
Thotch.

[Big Grin]
I'm annoyed with myself that I only caught the last episode of the latest series.

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The Phantom Flan Flinger
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There's so many contenders.

Black Sabbath & Led Zeppelin both influenced many rock musicians.

The Beatles' influence is undoubted, but many people forget that without Pet Sounds, there would be no Sgt Pepper.

Several punk groups, including but not limited to the Sex Pistols showed that you don't have to be musically talented to be successful [Snigger]

Clearly however, the two most influential people in rock music are Les Paul & Jim Marshall.

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Eutychus
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quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
Several punk groups, including but not limited to the Sex Pistols showed that you don't have to be musically talented to be successful [Snigger]

The point of the Sex Pistols is a) that they were highly original b) they completely disrupted the music industry by imposing their style rather than what record company execs wanted, thus opening the way for a lot more artistic creativity.

Plus the studio my band recorded in had previously been used by the Sex Pistols [Big Grin]

Time to put Never Mind the Bollocks... on I think.

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:

The Beatles' influence is undoubted, but many people forget that without Pet Sounds, there would be no Sgt Pepper.

Without the Beatles, the Beach Boys might never have recorded Pet Sounds. The massive popularity of the Beatles, and their shared label's focus on them in preference to the Beach Boys, changed Brian Wilson's focus. That, and his personal issues, pushed him into the studio where the genius happened. Without Chuck Berry, the Beatles might not have evolved as they did.
It is a massively intertwined thing, music.

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Fr Weber
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quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Are we talking about pop or rock? Because if it’s the former, I’m going to put in a vote here for the Beegees. I don’t know how many people really admit to being their fans, but I think they did have a massive influence on much of the commercial pop that followed them.

Pre-disco Bee Gees is some pretty good stuff.

The Saturday Night Fever soundtrack is mostly good for skeet shooting, though.

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Caissa
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I'll take U2. They took Christianity mainstream.
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balaam

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What do the following have in common?

Red Hot Chilli Peppers
Stone Roses
Happy Mondays
Radiohead
Talking Heads
Primal Scream
Kraftwerk

[list=1][*]They were all influential in their own right.[*]They were all influenced by Can.

Can, a band most people have never heard of has influenced more people either directly or indirectly than you can shake a stick at.

Andy McCluskey in the OP was wrong. Kraftwerk may have influenced those into synth music, but the band they were influenced by have influence more widely than that.

As for the Sex Pistols, they were influential musically. Pretty good as all they did was speed up Led Zeppelin riffs.

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Timothy the Obscure

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I suppose it must be difficult for anyone who wasn't born then (or old enough to be aware) to grasp the extent to which the Beatles dominated popular music from 1964-1970. There has never been anything remotely like it since, or probably before. Bear in mind that back then artists were expected to release an album every six months (and singles at least 3-4 times a year), and there were no internet leaks, only rumors and speculation (What are they going to do next? Only Dylan generated something like as much buzz). They created new subgenres and discarded them almost before the imitators got their records out. And every time the Beatles put out a new record, it changed music. Yes, Pet Sounds in some way inspired Sergeant Pepper, but Rubber Soul and Revolver inspired Pet Sounds. The Stones were the anti-Beatles (imitating them all the while) but the Beatles didn't need the Stones. For those six years, the Beatles were the absolute center of popular music, with everyone else measured in relation to them. I can't imagine how it could ever happen again, even if a band with that much talent came along (and there have been a few that came close). It was a different world, but the Beatles were a big part of why it changed.

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mousethief

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As a barometer, compare Please Please Me (the album) with Sgt. Pepper or Abbey Road. How long have the Red Hot Chili Peppers been a going affair? Is their first album that much different from their most recent ones? Is it because the entire world of popular music has changed? It that, in turn, because THEY changed it?

How much has popular music changed in the last 20 years? The last 10? The last 5? What one band has been largely responsible for that change?

There are no pretenders to the Beatles' crown. Give it up, y'all.

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QLib

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quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
My belief that rock and metal has blues roots is supported by something that Tony Iommi said, when he said that he was influenced by blues records,.

Is there any argument about this? I thought it was widely acknowledged by both academics and musicians.

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mousethief

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quote:
Originally posted by QLib:
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
My belief that rock and metal has blues roots is supported by something that Tony Iommi said, when he said that he was influenced by blues records,.

Is there any argument about this? I thought it was widely acknowledged by both academics and musicians.
I've never heard anyone deny it. And I've read a good bit on the history of Rock and Roll.

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Timothy the Obscure:
I suppose it must be difficult for anyone who wasn't born then (or old enough to be aware)

People tend to be less aware of things that did not happen in "their" era. What happened before, and what has changed since, is of little interest. I am amazed at this. It is, IMO, a symptom of our tribal nature.
quote:
Originally posted by QLib:
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
My belief that rock and metal has blues roots is supported by something that Tony Iommi said, when he said that he was influenced by blues records,.

Is there any argument about this? I thought it was widely acknowledged by both academics and musicians.
Metal began with a blues heritage. Early on, some groups abandoned that for punk, prog, classical, etc. Easy to miss if your experience is limited to one style.

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Eutychus
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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
There are no pretenders to the Beatles' crown. Give it up, y'all.

Brian Epstein? Not sure they would have influenced anyone without him.

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
There are no pretenders to the Beatles' crown. Give it up, y'all.

Brian Epstein? Not sure they would have influenced anyone without him.
They could well have pioneered the Alster Sound, rather than the Mersey Beat.

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The Phantom Flan Flinger
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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
There are no pretenders to the Beatles' crown. Give it up, y'all.

Brian Epstein? Not sure they would have influenced anyone without him.
Same can be said of George Martin.

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Posts: 1020 | From: Leicester, England | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Albertus
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# 13356

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As Mitch Benn said in his wonderful show about the Beatles, what you had there was a combination of unbelievable raw talent with a manager and producer who were interested in nurturing and developing that talent rather than in making a quick buck and getting out. This is something that almost never happens.

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St. Gwladys
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# 14504

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Possibly Mike Oldfield should get a mention? Tubular Bells was one of the first electronic, multitracked pieces of music I remember. (Along with Jean-Michel Jarre)

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mousethief

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# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
There are no pretenders to the Beatles' crown. Give it up, y'all.

Brian Epstein? Not sure they would have influenced anyone without him.
Same can be said of George Martin.
Neither Brian Epstein nor George Martin were a band. The question is which was the most important band, not, were they completely unaided in their careers by anybody else. Your point is completely opaque. What's your point?

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Mere Nick
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# 11827

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Chuck Berry.

"If you tried to give rock and roll another name, you might call it 'Chuck Berry'." - John Lennon

[ 27. January 2015, 04:57: Message edited by: Mere Nick ]

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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Your point is completely opaque. What's your point?

I can't speak for TPFF, but my point was that the casual assumption is often that the importance of a band is directly related to the sheer musical talent of its immediate members; people fail to realise the crucial role played by managers, producers, and other industry professionals.

That's why my vote goes to the Sex Pistols.

The Beatles benefitted from a canny manager and producer. Without them, we might never have heard of the band. The Sex Pistols (or so legend has it) stuck two fingers up at their record label and played what they wanted to play, and people liked it. That freed popular music from the shackles of record company execs, at least for a while.

(In similar vein one could point to Radiohead who, I think, were the first popular band to make their album free to download, thus acknowledging the end of the prevailing popular music business model).

[ 27. January 2015, 05:08: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

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lilBuddha
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counts number of musicians who count the Sex Pistols as an influence
counts the number of musicians who count the Beatles as an influence

hmmmmmm

[ 27. January 2015, 05:42: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

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Gramps49
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# 16378

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Even the Beatles would admit they were influenced by the Rockabilly Music of the early 50's; but even before that there was the Doo Oop Music of the 30's and 40's. Also Country Western and Jazz Music going back to the early 1900's.

The deal of it is Rock and Roll (to borrow a riff) is here to stay. It is constantly adapting, appealing to new generations of listeners, spinning off new expressions. Myself I have gone from Rockabilly, through the British Invasion, Hard Rock, Acid Rock, Heavy Metal, Punk, New Wave, Disco, Rap, Hip Hop--who knows where it will go next.

Thing of it is, my 13 year old granddaughters love the music of the 60's just as much as they love the Hip Hop of today.

But if you really want to know who was the most influential person behind Rock and Roll, it would be Adolf Rickenbacker who developed the electric guitar in 1932. The rest is history.

[ 27. January 2015, 05:53: Message edited by: Gramps49 ]

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mousethief

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# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Your point is completely opaque. What's your point?

I can't speak for TPFF, but my point was that the casual assumption is often that the importance of a band is directly related to the sheer musical talent of its immediate members; people fail to realise the crucial role played by managers, producers, and other industry professionals.
Indubitably. But again the question is "important" not "most talented." The Beatles were more than 4 people; they were a cultural and business phenomenon that involved a lot of creative talent outside the Fab Four. Some, like Aspinall, could probably be replaced, and the story would have unfolded much the same. Others, like George Martin and Brian Epstein, absolutely not.


quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
Even the Beatles would admit they were influenced by the Rockabilly Music of the early 50's; but even before that there was the Doo Oop Music of the 30's and 40's. Also Country Western and Jazz Music going back to the early 1900's.

Absolutely. And John and Paul, at least, were the first to admit that their influences were legion.

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
That's why my vote goes to the Sex Pistols.

Two thumbs up for bloodymindedness. You could say the same for Nirvana. Not quite what the OP is asking for, though.

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The Phantom Flan Flinger
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# 8891

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
There are no pretenders to the Beatles' crown. Give it up, y'all.

Brian Epstein? Not sure they would have influenced anyone without him.
Same can be said of George Martin.
Neither Brian Epstein nor George Martin were a band. The question is which was the most important band, not, were they completely unaided in their careers by anybody else. Your point is completely opaque. What's your point?
I was just saying that George Martin was as important to the Beatles as Brian Epstein.

Some people on this thread have pointed to the Beatles as the most important band, what's wrong with discussing what made them so?

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Mere Nick
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# 11827

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quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:

Thing of it is, my 13 year old granddaughters love the music of the 60's just as much as they love the Hip Hop of today.


I'm hip.

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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell

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LeRoc

Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216

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quote:
Gramps49: The deal of it is Rock and Roll (to borrow a riff) is here to stay. It is constantly adapting, appealing to new generations of listeners, spinning off new expressions. Myself I have gone from Rockabilly, through the British Invasion, Hard Rock, Acid Rock, Heavy Metal, Punk, New Wave, Disco, Rap, Hip Hop--who knows where it will go next.
Funnily, in that whole list of styles, the newest is over 35 years old. I think the last time pop music has renewed itself was with hardcore house and grunge in the early nineties. After that, it has been standing still. And I believe it will continue to do so.

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mousethief

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# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
Some people on this thread have pointed to the Beatles as the most important band, what's wrong with discussing what made them so?

Depends on how it's done. When the argument is, "The Beatles had a bunch of support; therefore some other band is more important," then it's no longer just "discussing what made them important".

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