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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Host & Admin Day
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evangeline:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
An us v. Them attitude on either side of the debate is unhelpful, imo-- the ship needs h/a's to run smoothly, the ship needs shipmates to run at all. As Lyda said, I think the hope of the Adminosphere, every year, is that the Shipmates will find ways to join in with the silliness and have fun with us.
If there's anything that creates an us vs them attitude to reinforce the power and authority of the H/As it would have to be the host & admin day. That's ok the powers that be say it is so, but let's not kid ourselves it's anything but a bit of self-indulgent power games for the H/As at the "expense" (the price of free membership of Sof apparantly) of the shipmates.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
As a shipmate I really love and look forward to H&A days, so please don't assume or say that all shipmates don't like H&A days, because quite a few of us do.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
This reaction is the price H&As pay for H&A days. It happens every time, but this time the reaction was stronger due to the nature of some of the H&A "fun" on boards that should have been exempted. Suck it up.
You are going to have to defend yourselves during and after every H&A day.
If you don't want to deal with the fall out from H&A days, you know what the answer is don't you?
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
One point: I come onto the Ship via a saved "favourite" direct to "current active threads". Coming this way I had no advice that the H&A Day had begun, and initially got quite upset by some of the comments I read.
Next time, could things be arranged so that one gets a warning about the Day on any page one opens?
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Starbug:
For people in a certain headspace (in my case. stressed and exhausted), the Ship was a no-go area for several days - at a time when I needed it.. Why is this necessary? I don't know of any other discussion boards that does this.
If that is how you express your relationship to the Ship, then I think you are over-dependent on it. I know it can feel like a supportive environment, but the Guidelines are quite clear:
quote:
The Ship is not an adequate stand-in for counselling services
Like them or loathe them, H&A events offer a healthy (and unmissable) reminder of the limits of what we do and are here.
The best way for each of us to benefit the most from what we actually form collectively, stay on board and add our own distinctive voice to the mix is to revise our expectations appropriately. At least that's what I've found.
[ 22. September 2014, 07:32: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
In the past H&A days seemed more inclusive in that shipmates got to join in the fun, eg the Crusading competition that Gwai mentioned and Sarky telling Kelly to call someone to Hell (the callee willingly took part and knew it was part of the fun).
This time the main impression was that it was all about the H&A's having fun abusing their powers and somehow 'getting their own back' and there were comments by H&A's along these lines.
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
quote:
Crap spouted by deano:
Sounds to me like your [sic] saying H&A days allow H&As to ignore the rules of each board and treat them all like Hell; that you don't have to respect the principles of each forum.
Yep, you've got it.
I gave another example earlier in the thread here
The genuine fun got a bit lost in all this. There were some extremely funny threads in Kerygmania. And Sober Preachers Kid got to be host in Eccles which was fun.
But my impression was that fewer shipmates than previously took part this time.
There are always some complaints about H&A days, but this thread started going pear shaped about page 2
An H&A day which resulted in two shipmates being banned and an Admin having to apologise seems to have gone quite badly wrong.
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
Posts: 600 | From: Cloud Cuckoo Land | Registered: Feb 2007
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Suspended, not banned. And, my posting in the Styx was mainly to be very obvious that the suspension was very short so that both pimple and L'organist would know very quickly they could return to posting. Plus, the referendum thread was due to be closed anyway which would result in anything I posted there descending out of sight very quickly.
I also wanted to make clear that on occasions we will have to break the (very sensible) convention of H&As not posting officially on threads they're actively participating in as that was picked up specifically following the suspension. Again, better in a dedicated Styx thread than on a rapidly sinking closed Purg thread.
All that being said, it was an apology.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
So if not H&A Days, what then? Nothing, ever, would seem to be the answer in some quarters.
There seem to be two world views: one - an ancient one - that every order must embrace an element of anarchy so that balance is maintained. Two - which seems to me the more modern - is that no, consistency must be maintained at all times.
While there are a great many institutions, structures and authorities in the world I hope are being lawful 100% of the time,I'm not minded to include a bunch of volunteer moderators in there. This 'power' that is talked about - what is it? To offer the opportunity to people to be offended - or not; to react - or not; to join in - or not.
I'm not a great one for the boisterous prank myself, but I am entirely in favour of what it represents (it's just that I do rebellion differently).
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thyme:
But my impression was that fewer shipmates than previously took part this time.
I'll be the first to admit that come H&As Day I'm usually off for a while and let my colleagues have their fun. It's just not me. So, I can't really comment on how many people got involved.
This year there was a thread on the Scottish Referendum that I was particularly interested in. It was noticable how many of us came up with imaginative ways of avoiding the censored words to make our point. Which was kind of fun, both in finding ways to that and appreciating the cleverness of others. I didn't really read many other threads, but it wouldn't surprise me if Shipmates were doing the same there.
Which I think is a way of asking "what do we mean by participation?"
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
WTF? It's just another version of April Fools, the lord of misrule, carnival or any other "let's turn the rules upside down and have a great time" holiday. Power games my foot.
That really is not the case at all. April Fools is between peers, and Lord of Misrule / Carnival is for all, but the plebs dominate and get to mock the establishment. There is no real world equivalent of a lighthearted party where the rulers get to let their hair down and wreak havoc among the ruled, and for good reason. What H&A day really is, its nature and its purpose, is still exactly the same as when Erin created the first one (see Kelly's description above).
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
One point: I come onto the Ship via a saved "favourite" direct to "current active threads". Coming this way I had no advice that the H&A Day had begun, and initially got quite upset by some of the comments I read.
Next time, could things be arranged so that one gets a warning about the Day on any page one opens?
The Styx is at the top of the list of the boards for a reason.
[ 22. September 2014, 08:51: Message edited by: Spike ]
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
This reaction is the price H&As pay for H&A days. It happens every time, but this time the reaction was stronger due to the nature of some of the H&A "fun" on boards that should have been exempted.
For goodness sake, read the other replies on that subject as I'm tired of repeating myself.
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Good points by IngoB. I would say that if you are running a forum, and operating a set of rules, you are bound to have a build-up of resentment and even hatred. To be able to release this now and again, seems brilliant to me, and I felt OK with all the ***, and I tried to creatively manipulate it. There is something quite aesthetic in '* can't f*nd the ** book which * order*d'.
I think in other contexts, management people get drunk, and slag off their customers; very healthy.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I think in other contexts, management people get drunk, and slag off their customers; very healthy.
Yes they do, but when with their peers, colleagues and/or friends and family.
H&A days are like the managers getting drunk and being offensive about their customers in a room containing all their customers!
You can hardly be surprised If the customers get offended and start being offensive back.
Perhaps if your analogy were to be used as a model for H&A days, the H&A's ought to create a private board where they can have their own little "slag fest" and be as silly and anarchic as they want, away from "customers" who might be offended and will start firing back responses designed to remove the fun.
I think some people see H&A days as a challenge - to stop the H&A's having their fun, because the "civilians" are excluded and also the target.
You can't expect a target to not shoot back can you?
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by Starbug:
For people in a certain headspace (in my case. stressed and exhausted), the Ship was a no-go area for several days - at a time when I needed it.. Why is this necessary? I don't know of any other discussion boards that does this.
If that is how you express your relationship to the Ship, then I think you are over-dependent on it.
I have to agree. Not least because, as well as H&A Days, there are times when necessary maintenance means the boards (including the private boards) are completely closed. Some such times have been known to last for far longer than any H&A Day. If the prospect of being unable to access this website for a number of days is genuinely upsetting or problematic for anyone, I would heartily encourage them to diversify their support networks such that their reliance on it is minimised*.
Now, it's true that we try our best to give advance warning of any long closure periods. But that's not always possible, and there's only so much we can do to ensure that everyone knows what's going on - especially if they choose not to visit the homepage or read the board that exists specifically for that function.
.
*= to be absolutely honest, I'm somewhat uncomfortable with the idea of the Ship being used as a support network or "safe place" at all. But the community here is one of the best I've ever encountered online, so it's inevitable that such functions will arise as an outpouring of that. But it's been emphasised time and again that we should not be a major (much less the primary or only) source of such things in anybody's life. As the guidelines say, we have to recognise the limitations of this medium where such things are concerned.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Reply to deano - well, then, we get to express our hatred of the H & A, again it seems very healthy to me. It's a kind of hate-sauna, where all the toxins pour out, and leave one refreshed and ready to go.
[ 22. September 2014, 09:25: Message edited by: quetzalcoatl ]
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Evangeline
Shipmate
# 7002
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
So if not H&A Days, what then? Nothing, ever, would seem to be the answer in some quarters.
There seem to be two world views: one - an ancient one - that every order must embrace an element of anarchy so that balance is maintained. Two - which seems to me the more modern - is that no, consistency must be maintained at all times.
While there are a great many institutions, structures and authorities in the world I hope are being lawful 100% of the time,I'm not minded to include a bunch of volunteer moderators in there. This 'power' that is talked about - what is it? To offer the opportunity to people to be offended - or not; to react - or not; to join in - or not.
I'm not a great one for the boisterous prank myself, but I am entirely in favour of what it represents (it's just that I do rebellion differently).
I spoke of power, it's the power of hosts and admins only to fart-arse around with the running of the forum. I Note the rules didn't seem to be suspended for shipmates, 2 got suspended. That's not anarchy it's tyranny.
Yeah people can opt out but my comment on power was in response to a claim that H&As didn't want an "us and them" mentality. I stand by the fact that H&A day is divisive (this thread is proof enough) and reinforces the fact that H&As have powers to edit/manipulate, muck about with the discussion boards.
Personally I don't have a problem if the powers that be want to fart-arse around to amuse themselves, I just wish they'd say "suck it up bitches" instead of trying to defend the indefensible.
Just disable posting to the styx during H&A week and for a fortnight thereafter and tell everyone to shut the f*&^ up. that's honest at least.
Posts: 2871 | From: "A capsule of modernity afloat in a wild sea" | Registered: May 2004
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
the H&A's ought to create a private board where they can have their own little "slag fest" and be as silly and anarchic as they want, away from "customers"
You think there isn't one?
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
WTF? It's just another version of April Fools, the lord of misrule, carnival or any other "let's turn the rules upside down and have a great time" holiday. Power games my foot.
That really is not the case at all. April Fools is between peers, and Lord of Misrule / Carnival is for all, but the plebs dominate and get to mock the establishment. There is no real world equivalent of a lighthearted party where the rulers get to let their hair down and wreak havoc among the ruled, and for good reason. What H&A day really is, its nature and its purpose, is still exactly the same as when Erin created the first one (see Kelly's description above).
I think a case could be made for the idea that the hosts and admins are not necessarily rulers as much as servants. I'm not saying it's the only truth, but I would guess that more people enter the role aiming to serve rather than to rule. At any rate, I think there is enough facets on it for some to perceive it as the servants suddenly getting to push the served around. Some may think the served are weak receivers and shouldn't be pushed around. Others could consider the served as somewhat stronger consumers of free services. I believe the difference in these perceptions affect what stance people take to the dynamics of the H&A days. I'd guess it also affects what you think the Ship could and should be.
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
I have a different question:
Where's the New System/Order®'s score board?
I won.
Not sure what or how, but I did.
Typical Host arrogance, in my view! I myself had five hard-earned points, and I'm expecting Eutychus to announce the winner (and the prize) soon!
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
While there are a great many institutions, structures and authorities in the world I hope are being lawful 100% of the time,I'm not minded to include a bunch of volunteer moderators in there. This 'power' that is talked about - what is it?
It's the power to restrict or allow expression of thought and sentiment. It is the power to judge what is appropriate and what not. It is the power to restrict membership and ban. It is the power to structure and organise these boards as one sees fit. It is the power to be judge and jury, king and police, critic and censor, of this community.
Of course, in a sense what happens on a bulletin board is intrinsically insubstantial. But people find meaning and value in anything they do repeatedly and enthusiastically, and create belonging out of thin air.
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
we get to express our hatred of the H & A, again it seems very healthy to me. It's a kind of hate-sauna, where all the toxins pour out, and leave one refreshed and ready to go.
True, oh downy serpent. The foot stamping and door slamming can go on as long - or longer - than the original occasion. Let it. Our fires are banked, but still they burn.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
It is the power to be judge and jury, king and police, critic and censor, of this community.
Though rather more time is spent being facilitator and prompter and party-giver and nanny and mopper-up, is it not?
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
I'm expecting Eutychus to announce the winner (and the prize) soon!
Expect the results next H&A "day", or check the scoring applicable to Mornington Crescent ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
the H&A's ought to create a private board where they can have their own little "slag fest" and be as silly and anarchic as they want, away from "customers"
You think there isn't one?
Of course there is. I would be surprised if there weren't. I have been a moderator myself on a UK politics forum and we had our own private area.
My question then is why, if you have the ability to have an H&A day everyday on you r won private board, do you need to let it spill out onto the public boards? What is the point?
One of the points is to honour a former Shipmate called Erin.
I never knew her. She was before my time. I don't think I'm alone. Is it right that a few Shipmates who did know her are able to enforce a tradition that other more recent Shipmates might find nonsensical and offensive? Orange Order much?
I knew Ken. We didn't agree politically, but we did theologically. Can we have a traditional day to celebrate and remember him? If not, why not?
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
I believe the difference in these perceptions affect what stance people take to the dynamics of the H&A days. I'd guess it also affects what you think the Ship could and should be.
In German I would talk of "die normative Kraft des Faktischen" (the normative force of the de facto). Whatever someone's opinion of their role may be, its social status is ultimately determined by what they can do, and actually do. A servant king is a type of king, not a type of servant.
"When great men rule, subjects know little of their existence. Rulers who are less great win the affection and praise of their subjects. A common ruler is feared by his subjects, and an unworthy ruler is despised. ... How carefully a wise ruler chooses his words. He performs deeds, and accumulates merit! Under such a ruler the people think they are ruling themselves." (Dao De Jing 17)
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
I believe the difference in these perceptions affect what stance people take to the dynamics of the H&A days. I'd guess it also affects what you think the Ship could and should be.
In German I would talk of "die normative Kraft des Faktischen" (the normative force of the de facto). Whatever someone's opinion of their role may be, its social status is ultimately determined by what they can do, and actually do. A servant king is a type of king, not a type of servant.
"When great men rule, subjects know little of their existence. Rulers who are less great win the affection and praise of their subjects. A common ruler is feared by his subjects, and an unworthy ruler is despised. ... How carefully a wise ruler chooses his words. He performs deeds, and accumulates merit! Under such a ruler the people think they are ruling themselves." (Dao De Jing 17)
But a consumer has and always will have the power of the feet, the capacity to leave and reject the service offered.
Also, if there's one environment that's proved to me that taoist rulers wouldn't work in practice, it's the Ship.
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
H&A days must make quite a bit of work for the H&As!
Let them have their fun I say. It's never for long ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Though rather more time is spent being facilitator and prompter and party-giver and nanny and mopper-up, is it not?
Indeed, it is not.
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
I knew Ken. We didn't agree politically, but we did theologically. Can we have a traditional day to celebrate and remember him?
Now, that's positive thinking! I for one support a "Beyond Our Ken" day.
Though perhaps it should be a more general "All Ship Souls" day, where we remember all that have gone and bring back the memories of one of them by tailoring the celebrations to their characteristics.
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
It is the power to be judge and jury, king and police, critic and censor, of this community.
Though rather more time is spent being facilitator and prompter and party-giver and nanny and mopper-up, is it not?
I've been a moderator on a parenting site for almost 10 years and almost all of my work is administrating, facilitating and smoothing over conflicts. There has often been people I would have liked to have banned as they are a nuisance or irritating and bring me more work but I recognise that my role is to try to prevent it getting to that stage. It requires self-discipline and pragmatism. I'd assume that moderating here is a similar experience.
I enjoyed the anarchy, especially in Keryg.
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
My shop
Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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Lucia
Looking for light
# 15201
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Posted
Just to add my small voice that I quite enjoy H&A days and would be sad to see them go. Sure, there is perhaps legitimate debate to be had as to what is done. But of course as in life in general different people have different sense of humour (and some people for various reasons don't have much sense of humour at all). You can't please everyone.
I don't see the H&A as rulers but more as people who give their time and effort to ensure that this is a place that basically works well most of the time. I don't see the responsibility to read all the posts and check all the links as a position of privilege! Sounds like a pain in the a*** to me! And I appreciate that they do it and I don't have a problem with them occasionally reminding us what it could be like if they really were arbitrary and uncaring. To me it just highlights that in general they do a good job but it is easy to take that for granted.
If you don't like what is going on just avoid the Ship for a few days. Like I turn off the TV when there is a comedian on whose humour I find unpleasant and grating. As was said up thread, if you are dependent on the Ship such that a few days away is a problem perhaps that is something you need to look at.
Posts: 1075 | From: Nigh golden stone and spires | Registered: Oct 2009
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lucia:
I don't see the H&A as rulers but more as people who give their time and effort to ensure that this is a place that basically works well most of the time. I don't see the responsibility to read all the posts and check all the links as a position of privilege! Sounds like a pain in the a*** to me! And I appreciate that they do it and I don't have a problem with them occasionally reminding us what it could be like if they really were arbitrary and uncaring. To me it just highlights that in general they do a good job but it is easy to take that for granted.
It's gratifying to see that at least one person gets it.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
My question then is why, if you have the ability to have an H&A day everyday on you r won private board, do you need to let it spill out onto the public boards? What is the point?
Because we can and because it's fun ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
quote:
One of the points is to honour a former Shipmate called Erin.
I never knew her. She was before my time. I don't think I'm alone. Is it right that a few Shipmates who did know her are able to enforce a tradition that other more recent Shipmates might find nonsensical and offensive? Orange Order much?
H&A day isn't really a day to honour Erin as such, but perhaps a quick history lesson is in order.
Erin was more than just a shipmate. She was one of the founder members of the boards and ran the place for a good number of years. Even though, over time, she appointed extra Admins to reduce her workload, she remained the ultimate person in charge - that's where the buck stopped.
The original H&A day was her idea to celebrate her racking up 10000 posts. (We also gave individual shipmates the ability to do whatever they wanted when they reached 10000 posts. The first shipmate to do this was ken closely followed by Mousethief. We stopped doing it after a while when the 10000 mark became more common)
H&A days continued while she was still alive. The first one we had after she died was on what would have been her 40th birthday, so it would be fair to say that it was in honour of her, but since then, they haven't been specifically in her memory. That said, I'm sure she'd have been delighted and highly amused at the number of complaints this year's event has generated!
quote:
I knew Ken. We didn't agree politically, but we did theologically. Can we have a traditional day to celebrate and remember him? If not, why not?
There will almost certainly be a Shipmeet in his memory as we've also done with other shipmates who have passed. If you can think of a board wide memorial to absent friends, then feel free to suggest something and we'll consider it.
[ 22. September 2014, 11:58: Message edited by: Spike ]
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
H&A days must make quite a bit of work for the H&As!
Let them have their fun I say. It's never for long
H&A are are as much a part of Ship tradition as the week long clean up and the thread that follows them. The thread usually includes a selection of posts making the following points:
- It was really fun
- It was a bit meh this year compared to other years
- Too busy to take part this year, but may be next time
- Not in the mood this year so took some Shore Leave. Hopefully will feel in the mood next time
- Not in the mood this year so took some Shore Leave. How dare you disrupt the Ship
- H&A day is the worst thing ever. I hate it and it should never be allowed to happen again.
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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pimple
Ship's Irruption
# 10635
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by Thyme:
But my impression was that fewer shipmates than previously took part this time.
I'll be the first to admit that come H&As Day I'm usually off for a while and let my colleagues have their fun. It's just not me. So, I can't really comment on how many people got involved.
This year there was a thread on the Scottish Referendum that I was particularly interested in. It was noticable how many of us came up with imaginative ways of avoiding the censored words to make our point. Which was kind of fun, both in finding ways to that and appreciating the cleverness of others. I didn't really read many other threads, but it wouldn't surprise me if Shipmates were doing the same there.
Which I think is a way of asking "what do we mean by participation?"
My own "imaginative way was to post in French. But I got flamed for it. I should have realised that the poor host on that board, having to read every blessed post that came his way, might not have been amused. I hope he'll accept this as a belated apology - it's the first I've been allowed since.
[ 22. September 2014, 14:10: Message edited by: pimple ]
Posts: 8018 | From: Wonderland | Registered: Nov 2005
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Mischief Night was always a well-known date in the Christian / Folk religion calendar. You can't have 'All Saints' unless you chase out the naughty devil first. Short of all the Hosts and Admins dressing up in Halloween masks as witches and pumpkins what else is there to do but spread their mischief all over the boards for a day or two? Mind you, a few pics of the H&As dressed up as Witches and pumpkins might be good as well...
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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agingjb
Shipmate
# 16555
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Posted
I keep out of the way. It's their board, not mine. And I've learnt a lot about the SoF culture.
Two points: a request for prayer is not using the SoF as a stand-in for counselling services, and it's an independent resource which it is a pity to lose for for several days.
And, anyone considering shelling out for a private board should be very clear just how their board might be affected, even if the effect is no more than peripheral on the look and feel.
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Refraction Villanelles
Posts: 464 | From: Southern England | Registered: Jul 2011
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Any takers on the bet this thread discussing H&A Day will last longer than the event itself?
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Wh*n do you th*nk *t will en*?
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
Also, I don't get why the H&A days have to be started without warning.
I get that some people view them as fun. People are different and entitled to that view, but why the need to start them unaaounced?
Would it cause a problem if the day was announced a week in advance. Then we would all have the chance to read about it and decide to keep away or participate.
I suspect there is no reason except "because we can".
More likely is that the H&As also know that if they did announce it they would get a weeks worth of posts complaining about it as well as the complaints during and after, and that quite a few people wouldn't stay around to watch the "festivities".
If your victim isn't around then bullying isn't as much fun.
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
My first H&A Day, as an apprentice, was what got me to delurk and stick around on the Ship. Suddenly, I was able to cast off the boring, normal exterior and let out the idiosyncratic, poetry-composing whatsit. Yes, it was weird, arbitrary, and capricious, but so sometimes am I—and, despite being at the supposed whims of the autocrats, I loved it. Couldn't wait for the next one.
Next one rolls around. I apply for a crusading permit and a temp host post. Marvin runs an agony aunt column in Hell. I crusade. I force everyone to grovel before myself, iF, and Chorister. Nobody does it, of course. I pull a few stunts that I was convinced were going to get me planked. Worse—I get drafted as a Circus host. Shit.
Last time, I start a war between the Velodrome and Hull, totally destroy both boards, and end up having to—IRL—go to the main quad of the local university in a beret with a baguette and get some visiting parents to take a picture "because I lost I bet with a Frenchwoman."
This year? Meh, classed up Hell a bit with the Garamond, made a Seinfeld reference or two, and tried to set a few traps for SPK. Was just getting into the swing of things when it all ended a bit too soon.
In the end though—and this may just be childhood Christmas memories—it's the H&AD's from my non-Host days that I really remember—the ones during which I was, you know, oppressed, crushed, and discriminated against.
Maybe it's just my own hidden, rarely acted upon chaotic side. Maybe it's a revolt against the necktied, take the shit piled on you, low man on the totem pole, head down and mouth shut grind of grad school and the day jobs. Maybe I'm just weird—okay, I am just weird. But H&AD's are about the biggest reason I stuck around, and continue to stay.
[ 22. September 2014, 15:47: Message edited by: Ariston ]
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
Marvin runs an agony aunt column in Hell.
It may have been hellish in nature, but it was actually in All Saints. It was part of the whole "let's put a Hellhost into an AS Hosting slot" joke that the Admins (Spike, primarily) pulled that year.
The joke was on them - I stayed in AS for quite a while after the H&A Day had finished! Then I had my stint in Heaven, and now I'm an Admin myself ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) .
H&A Days do seem to have quite a habit of discovering new Hosts for us. If I were SPK, I'd be watching with trepidation for the next Hostly resignation announcement... ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Also, I don't get why the H&A days have to be started without warning.
I get that some people view them as fun. People are different and entitled to that view, but why the need to start them unaaounced?
Would it cause a problem if the day was announced a week in advance. Then we would all have the chance to read about it and decide to keep away or participate.
I suspect there is no reason except "because we can".
More likely is that the H&As also know that if they did announce it they would get a weeks worth of posts complaining about it as well as the complaints during and after, and that quite a few people wouldn't stay around to watch the "festivities".
If your victim isn't around then bullying isn't as much fun.
And I refer you to this post. If we announced it a week in advance we'd get the same. Some Shipmates would complain whilst others would use the prior warning to come up with something suitably creative that they can run with.
The Admins started posting warning about H&A at the top of the board and on FB after some Shipmates specifically asked. There may be other things that can be done to make sure everyone is better informed. We'll see.
Tubbs
[ 22. September 2014, 16:24: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Last year Marvin used his mighty Admin powers and changed my title to "Ship's broken porthole". I loved it and I bought it! ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
Thanks again, Marvin.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
If your victim isn't around then bullying isn't as much fun.
It wasn't bullying. Neither was your OP in Hell:
quote:
Should women be allowed into the R&A Golf Club?
Of course not, sez me. To paraphrase one of the house elves in Harry Potter, women have no business having fun on the golf course when there is housework to be done and husbands teas to get on the table.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Amorya
Ship's tame galoot
# 2652
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
There may be other things that can be done to make sure everyone is better informed. We'll see.
A warning at the top of the Waving board would probably go a long way to alleviating the issue. I'm not sure who controls the text there (Ship's admins or the board's hosts)…
Amorya
[ 22. September 2014, 17:22: Message edited by: Amorya ]
Posts: 2383 | From: Coventry | Registered: Apr 2002
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
The admins control that. A private board host could send us what they want the header to say and we could change it.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Starbug
Shipmate
# 15917
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by agingjb:
I keep out of the way. It's their board, not mine. And I've learnt a lot about the SoF culture.
Two points: a request for prayer is not using the SoF as a stand-in for counselling services, and it's an independent resource which it is a pity to lose for for several days.
And, anyone considering shelling out for a private board should be very clear just how their board might be affected, even if the effect is no more than peripheral on the look and feel.
Thank you for your first point. You've said it better than I could.
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“Oh the pointing again. They're screwdrivers! What are you going to do? Assemble a cabinet at them?” ― The Day of the Doctor
Posts: 1189 | From: West of the New Forest | Registered: Sep 2010
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
for the record, I once was a host but now I'm not. I am not spouting any accepted propaganda here, and I have not talked to any of the powers that be about this post. This is just strictly my observations and experience talking.
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
While there are a great many institutions, structures and authorities in the world I hope are being lawful 100% of the time,I'm not minded to include a bunch of volunteer moderators in there. This 'power' that is talked about - what is it?
It's the power to restrict or allow expression of thought and sentiment. It is the power to judge what is appropriate and what not. It is the power to restrict membership and ban. It is the power to structure and organise these boards as one sees fit. It is the power to be judge and jury, king and police, critic and censor, of this community.
Of course, in a sense what happens on a bulletin board is intrinsically insubstantial. But people find meaning and value in anything they do repeatedly and enthusiastically, and create belonging out of thin air.
I don't disagree with you, Ingo, but I think you're missing some important pieces here.
first of all, there is no king. Okay, Simon is potentially king. but he's one of those boring kings that is perfectly happy to go about his business and has delegated his authority to a bunch of other slobs. Could he, in theory, come down with a bad case of megalomania and take over and eff everything up? sure. could he be bothered? I doubt it.
Other than Simon, there's this collective group of administrators and no one has any more power than any other. This leads to a couple of dynamics familiar to anyone who has ever been on a non-profit board. 1. Nothing ever gets done quickly and decisively, and 2. no real dramatic changes ever seem to happen without 6 months of bickering, 2 bottles of gin, 3 subcommittees, at least one mental breakdown, and someone getting the My Little Pony Avatar for a day.
This can, on rare occasion, be a real pain in the ass. But most of the time, it keeps this power frenzy you fear so much at bay.
in theory, RooK or Marvin or whoever could get their undies in a bunch, log on at 2 am and ban the fuck out of everyone with the letter E in their username. If this were to happen, their role as admin would come to an end within 10 hours at the most and the rest of the admins would mop up the mess with much apologies and biting their tongues at the expected screeching here in the Styx.
The hosts get even less power than that. As a host, what is the worst one could do? Alter someone's post? okay. That's another shining example of how to get your ass in deep doo doo and get bumped.
(And for the record, in my tenure I don't think I ever got called on the carpet for altering a post. It was always for having a foul mouth and saying something "mean" - an activity I'm perfectly capable of doing without any hostly powers at all.)
It is possible, in theory, that the make-up of the H&As could over time become so weighted towards one particular group-think that they in effect become the dictators you seem to fear. But in my experience, no matter how much everyone agrees on something, if you put a bunch of people together on a board or committee, they will find enough details to differ on that they will continue to get nothing useful done just as much as any other committee.
probably the biggest use of power the admins throw around around here regularly is the choosing of hosts. Because it happens in the background, a lot of shipmates seem to think this is an unfair and arbitrary system.
It probably really is. But there is good reason for it. over the (what, almost 20?) years of the boards, there have been some inappropriate choices, some really bad choices, and a few disastrous ones. People who appeared to really have the dedication and overall functional sanity to host, were given access to the buttons, and lost their little minds.
Because of this, the admins have a sort of fluid set of criteria for choosing their volunteers, and some of that criteria might be unexpected to the untrained eye. Still, there are good reasons for it.
Some shipmates appear to have their noses permanently out of joint because they have never been asked. This is not because of some sort of "clique" or in crowd or whatever you want to call it; there are plenty of people who've been in the hosting and adminning chairs who annoy the fuck right out of me, for one. it has to do first and foremost with the ability to dedicate the time necessary; after that, it's compatible timezones, followed by an individual's interest in the given board or duty. Only after those things are considered does the decision on ability to be objective, willingness to work within the team, ability to calm the fuck down and not take things personally, and general unlikeliness to go psycho get taken into consideration.
and FYI - just because you have never seen your favorite shipmate tapped as a host, doesn't mean they weren't asked. It's a big undertaking and a lot of people turn it down for various reasons. perfectly legit reasons.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
In my short time on the ship, this is first one of these episodes during which I continued to post. It is clear that senses of humour vary, what is funny to one is not to another. Previous times, I viewed the days as more like 'denial of service attacks' where the boards were non-functional. That sort of thing is very disruptive to normal progressions of discussion on forums, and usually picks up without loss afterwards. It would be interesting to know what the statistics of visitors and number of posts before and after one of these days is, given that the nature of disruption is different. I suspect there is a decrement in number of posts and logins afterword. If it is possible to generate that information, say one week before and one week after, that would be interesting to consider.
[ 22. September 2014, 18:01: Message edited by: no prophet ]
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
WTF? It's just another version of April Fools, the lord of misrule, carnival or any other "let's turn the rules upside down and have a great time" holiday. Power games my foot.
That really is not the case at all. April Fools is between peers, and Lord of Misrule / Carnival is for all, but the plebs dominate and get to mock the establishment. There is no real world equivalent of a lighthearted party where the rulers get to let their hair down and wreak havoc among the ruled, and for good reason. What H&A day really is, its nature and its purpose, is still exactly the same as when Erin created the first one (see Kelly's description above).
What the hell is this "establishment" and "rulers" stuff? What you have here is a bunch of fucking volunteers who don't get paid a cent and have to put up with everybody's crap. And they're pulled from the general population of SoF posters (to which they return when they retire). And in fact, they continue to post as ordinary shipmates whenever they are not carrying out their extra duties at the mo.
There is no THEY in this. That isn't an establishment. That isn't "rulers." That's some of US attempting to have a good time with the rest of US, in spite of the inevitable misunderstandings/blowback from others of US.
Damn, it's like trying to make coffee for a churchful of people who all take it a different way.
Why not make constructive suggestions (I saw a few on this thread) instead of just bitching?
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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