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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: sex before marriage
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Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hiro's Leap:
As a non-Christian, I'm fascinated by the Orthodox attitude (i.e. marriage as a path to holiness): it's powerful, but also very alien to me. And since I don't believe in the Kingdom, I'm curious how it translates into the here-and-now.
If I can put this in secular terms, what should the world look like to you? What is your paradise?
There, I think, is your kingdom. It's not about here and now, it's based on where, all things going more or less according to plan, you will be. Here-and-now is related to that (I'm not a pie-in-the-sky-when-you-die kind of guy), but it's not just here-and-now.
Yours seems to be calculated on happiness. If this relationship ultimately makes me unhappy, I should leave it for "greener pastures." That is one way to do things, though I'll admit I think it's about as futile, ultimately, as any other approach.
Also, speaking to your particular case, Althzheimer's isn't a sudden thing, IME. I've seen someone go through it who was very lucid (though decreasingly so, and off and on at some points) for a while (though now, probably for his own good, he's institutionalized; I think he's a widower). At what point do you choose to abandon this particular decaying husk of a mind? Do you have to wait until you're absolutely sure they don't know who you are, or do you leave them when they're merely unable to remember when they last went to the store?
I would hope, even if someone was a calculated happiness-driven machine, that one would have some consideration for these sorts of questions.
And what josephine said about changing relationships. Even having been married for a mere two years (almost), I can tell that in some regards I'm not the same person I was when I married. I think most of these changes are for the better, but the relationship is already evolving before my very eyes. Even if you're a "here-and-now" sort of person, you can't be too attached to the here-and-now, for it is a passing thing.
And if I may ramble into tangent zone, this might reflect on soteriology or eschatology. If one truly thinks the future is just a glorified box of soon-to-be compost, it might be harder to escape the tyranny of the present. Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we shall die.
[ 28. April 2008, 20:05: Message edited by: Bullfrog. ]
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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Lynn MagdalenCollege
Shipmate
# 10651
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Posted
Gwai, btw, thank you for inquiring of your lit professor friend ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by Hiro's Leap:
Similarly, if one partner is utterly changed by an illness (severe Alzheimer's, say) there isn't a debate for me about whether or not the relationship can be ended: it already HAS ended. Or at least, it's changed so drastically it's become a different relationship, perhaps more like a parent-child.
I don't think so - the nature of the relationship has undoubtedly changed but it's not ended; there is still a covenant in place. That was the hardest challenge for me personally: I was there, God was there, 2 of the 3 involved in the covenant were there - but 2 out of 3 doesn't make it float.
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Lynn MagdalenCollege:
I've come to believe that happiness is far more internal than external
That's what I used to think when I was in my late teens and twenties. But I seem to have grown out of it.
The more I see of the world the more I think that people make each other happy or sad and that most problems are not your own fault and the solution is rarely in your own hands.
Frankly, most of life is comprised of situations in which we find ourselves rather than situations we created: we are born into an existing society at a specific strata within the society (which may or may not be very class oriented); we are born into a family with no choice about its character or nature or interests or values; we are born with an intelligence which is not of our own choosing and gifts which are not of our own choosing and we may or may not have the opportunity to rightly develop our gifts or educate our minds. So I'm not saying that our circumstances don't have a bearing but I think our reaction and mindset have a HUGE amount to do with how we handle it and whether we can have joy in the face of the storm or not. quote:
Also once upon a time I thought that we should talk about our personal and emotional problems and face up to them and work through them with others close to us. But now it seems more and more that that often makes them worse, and the very act of talking about them can be emotionally and socially crippling, and also ruing relationships. Its often better to just put up with bad things and keep going. Muddle through and stick together and maybe things will come out alright later. Over-examined problems ofen become intolerable and lead to unhealable breakups.
I don't think it's as straightforward as an A/B setting: DO talk or DON'T talk. I think there are some things about which talking never helps because they are inherently hurtful and unchangeable; I think there are things which we must risk talking about, if we're looking for deep intimacy - and vast terrain between the extremes. And I suspect every relationship has unique dynamics at play - probably the dynamics change over the years, so that the way it worked in your 20s isn't necessarily the way it will work in your 40s or 60s, etc.
Yes, certainly there are situations in which a person can get fixated on a problem, rather like picking a scab, and they never allow it to heal or be restored. And perhaps as western society has become more self-aware and self-obsessed we're more likely to fall into that place - but I think it's pretty narcissistic (in common vernacular, not medical jargon) and we all have to struggle against that kind of self-absorption. Especially within marriage--
Related tangent: I just watched the film Perfume (which I didn't realize Tom Tykwer made; I enjoy his work) and it's fascinating and horrific because the protagonist has no fellow-feeling whatsoever; his life is, in a bizarre way, entirely about what he wants. The scariest thing, however, is in the short 'making of' segment, one of the producers says something to the effect of, "he's not bad or evil, he's amoral." ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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Erin & Friend; Been there, done that; Ruth musical
Posts: 6263 | From: California | Registered: Nov 2005
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
quote:
Similarly, if one partner is utterly changed by an illness (severe Alzheimer's, say) there isn't a debate for me about whether or not the relationship can be ended: it already HAS ended. Or at least, it's changed so drastically it's become a different relationship, perhaps more like a parent-child.
Of course it's a different relationship. But even without severe illness, a relationship changes over time. You won't be the same person at 50 that you were at 20, nor will your spouse be, and so the relationship won't be the same, either. Illness just magnifies what is an ordinary fact of all relationships. But if you love your partner, the love continues even as the relationship changes.
My grandfather nursed my grandmother through 7 years of Alzheimer's. For the last few years, she no longer knew any of us, and she spent the day swearing, screaming, biting and kicking. I never heard him raise his voice to her. He showed the same patient love to her that he always had - and which was a hallmark of his character.
We arranged our life around going there 3 days a week so he could cope. I learned more about life, God, families and real love by watching and participating in that scenario than I have from any other relationship.
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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Nellie
Apprentice
# 14935
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Posted
Nobody has posted on this one for a long while so this probably won't be read but it feels good to be able to say how I feel without being tutted at. I am absolutely pig sick of waiting for marriage. People say 'just trust God and he will bring you the right person' This was fine when I was 21 but not now. I would like children, but the clock is ticking and I do not have a clue where God is anymore. An easy answer to this problem would be to say 'It must not be God's will for you to be married'. Whether or not this is the case, it does not remove the desire I have to be married. What also of the teaching that Christians must only marry other Christians? There are nowhere near enough Christian men for all the Christian women (in Britain- I'm not sure about other countries).
Anyway this is the plan. I will continue to save sex for marriage but if I reach my late thirties and I still have not found someone to marry then I will settle for whatever I can get, whether that is meaningless sex, a live-in lover or anything in between. Saving sex for marriage is fine.....if you get married before the age of 25. That is my opinion and if God wants to throw me into hell for it then he is welcome.
Posts: 15 | Registered: Jul 2009
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nellie:
Nobody has posted on this one for a long while so this probably won't be read ...
Gotcha! ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Welcome to the Ship. I don't think you'll be tutted at or consigned to hell here, no worries on that score. Pop into the new members thread in All Saints and you might even get a virtual tot of rum.
Since I've been married 14 years now, it's hard for me to know what to say without coming over like a Smug Married, I'm afraid. But I do remember vividly what it was like to be single with absolutely no chance of a relationship on the horizon. I was 25 before I got within snogging distance of a guy. (But the snog was so good, it kept me going for the 3 years until I married him ... yep, I'm one of those who really did keep their legs crossed.)
I can only speak for me, and say that I'm glad I waited, for all sorts of complicated reasons (which are probably further up this thread). But you'll find plenty of other viewpoints here too. Good to have you aboard, and hope you enjoy exploring the Ship.
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Nellie, are you saying that you have offers of commitmentless sex, which you are turning down, holding out for marriage? That you could have sex if you wanted it, but you want to wait for marriage and nobody will hang around that long even though they are willing to have a one night (or one week or one year) stand? I don't really understand what your "here's the plan" section is meant to convey otherwise.
I've heard a lot of genuine anguish from people who can't find a soulmate, but never couched in "that does it I'm going to give up the search for a soulmate and settle for sex" language. I feel at a loss as to how to respond to what you have said until I understand what it is you've said.
That said, welcome to the ship! I hope your time here is long and enjoyable.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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the coiled spring
Shipmate
# 2872
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Posted
A couple of weeks ago at a tent crusade about 15 miles from I live they spoke about repentance. One of the example given was of couple living together beliving if they get married it makes it all right, but if no repentance it is jsut a sham. Repentance is needed.
Does seem once again the Anglican management team seem to be compromising with the world in looking to have children of couple being baptised a the wedding.
Do we want to be in God's image or do we want Got in our image
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give back to God what He gives so it is used for His glory not ours.
Posts: 2359 | From: mountain top retreat lodge overlooking skegness | Registered: May 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by the coiled spring:... living together beliving if they get married it makes it all right, but if no repentance it is jsut a sham. Repentance is needed.
You do not understand what the word "repentance" means. Read the Bible more. Its not feeling bad about what you have done (that would be guilt, or shame). Repentance is turning away from what you have done wrong. If living together without being married is a sin then getting married IS repentance.
quote:
Originally posted by the coiled spring:
Does seem once again the Anglican management team seem to be compromising with the world in looking to have children of couple being baptised a the wedding.
I think you have got Christianity confused with some sort of pagan revenge cult. Mayeb your one-man crusade against bishops is confusing you. We worship Jesus Christ, not Moloch. If it is right to baptise children it is right to do it regardless of the sins of their parents. So its not compromise with the world at all.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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the coiled spring
Shipmate
# 2872
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Posted
quote:
I think you have got Christianity confused with some sort of pagan revenge cult.
Surely a lot of Anglican teaching is pagan..
Marriage does not make thing right if there is no repentance.
It is like a drug dealer who decides to give it all up once he/she has got what they want, makes claims of becoming a born again Christain yet keeps all the money made from drugs to find his life style
Is there not a story about a tax collector somewhere who Jesus saw up a tree who gave 4x back to all he fiddled.
Our sins taint our relationship with God and repentance is needed but not talked about because it can upset many.
How do you get the revenge bit.
Agree that children should be baptised, but that does not make the conception right if outside marriage.
With 30 churches shutting a year who do you blame, the mateys or God. Revelation 2:4-5 does appear to describe what is happening.
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give back to God what He gives so it is used for His glory not ours.
Posts: 2359 | From: mountain top retreat lodge overlooking skegness | Registered: May 2002
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Nellie
Apprentice
# 14935
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Posted
![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif) EEK! I didn't realise this thread would go to the top of the list if I posted on it.
Thank you Gill H, I'm glad things worked out for you. I have yet to come accross someone who did manage to wait until married who is not glad that they waited, though I wonder if your views would have changed if you had still been single in your thirties.
Hi Mousethief, I do not have any offers of casual sex. However, if I reach my late thirties and I am still single I will go to a nightclub/bar with the intention of picking up a man and getting it over and done with. In the meantime I will do everything I can to find a soulmate (dating sites etc). My view is that loveless sex with someone you barely know is better than no sex, at all, ever. Waking up in a strangers bed could not possibly make me feel any worse than I already do.
Posts: 15 | Registered: Jul 2009
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by the coiled spring:
quote:
I think you have got Christianity confused with some sort of pagan revenge cult.
Surely a lot of Anglican teaching is pagan..
![[Snore]](graemlins/snore.gif) ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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amber.
Ship's Aspiedestra
# 11142
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nellie:
:...if I reach my late thirties and I am still single I will go to a nightclub/bar with the intention of picking up a man and getting it over and done with. In the meantime I will do everything I can to find a soulmate (dating sites etc). My view is that loveless sex with someone you barely know is better than no sex, at all, ever. Waking up in a strangers bed could not possibly make me feel any worse than I already do.
Blimeys, I truly hope and pray that life will offer you more than a dodgy bloke in a nightclub for a one night stand out of desperation. I suspect you might feel worse afterwards, though cannot be sure.
Posts: 5102 | From: Central South of England | Registered: Mar 2006
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Jolly Jape
Shipmate
# 3296
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Coiled Spring
Marriage does not make thing right if there is no repentance.
It is like a drug dealer who decides to give it all up once he/she has got what they want, makes claims of becoming a born again Christain yet keeps all the money made from drugs to find his life style
No doubt you missed the bit of ken's post where he rightly points out that repentance is turning away from sin. So a person "living in sin" (a term which is, incidentally, meaningless, since we all, to a greater or lesser extent, live in sin) in your terms turns away from that sin when they marry. That is what repentance means! Quite how your analogy about drug-dealers fits this situation I'm at a loss to know. What do you suggest, they make reparation by sending the babies back whence they came? Sheesh ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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To those who have never seen the flow and ebb of God's grace in their lives, it means nothing. To those who have seen it, even fleetingly, even only once - it is life itself. (Adeodatus)
Posts: 3011 | From: A village of gardens | Registered: Sep 2002
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the coiled spring
Shipmate
# 2872
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Posted
quote:
quote: I think you have got Christianity confused with some sort of pagan revenge cult.
Surely a lot of Anglican teaching is pagan..
[Snore] [Snore] [Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes] [Snore] [Snore]
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Ken
I gather you are spiritual blind to any form of paganism at the centre of the church
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give back to God what He gives so it is used for His glory not ours.
Posts: 2359 | From: mountain top retreat lodge overlooking skegness | Registered: May 2002
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Jolly Jape
Shipmate
# 3296
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by the coiled spring:
quote:
quote: I think you have got Christianity confused with some sort of pagan revenge cult.
Surely a lot of Anglican teaching is pagan..
[Snore] [Snore] [Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes] [Snore] [Snore]
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Ken
I gather you are spiritual blind to any form of paganism at the centre of the church
Assuming this is a reference to the Archbishop of Canterbury, do I take it that your position is that you expect Lord Coe to lead a widespread revival in the worship of Zeus as we approach 2012?
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To those who have never seen the flow and ebb of God's grace in their lives, it means nothing. To those who have seen it, even fleetingly, even only once - it is life itself. (Adeodatus)
Posts: 3011 | From: A village of gardens | Registered: Sep 2002
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by amber.:
quote:
Originally posted by Nellie:
:...if I reach my late thirties and I am still single I will go to a nightclub/bar with the intention of picking up a man and getting it over and done with. In the meantime I will do everything I can to find a soulmate (dating sites etc). My view is that loveless sex with someone you barely know is better than no sex, at all, ever. Waking up in a strangers bed could not possibly make me feel any worse than I already do.
Blimeys, I truly hope and pray that life will offer you more than a dodgy bloke in a nightclub for a one night stand out of desperation. I suspect you might feel worse afterwards, though cannot be sure.
I rather hope that she has some experience with extensive "snogging". Making it with an indifferent stranger would probably be awkward and unfulfilling sexually (forget emotionally) unless you know how to ask for precisely what you want. Otherwise it could turn into wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am. Totally depressing.
This is no doubt an un-Christian POV, but if you approach the dreaded late thirties unfulfilled, at least try to cultivate some male friends to like and trust and see about getting some "benefits". But don't have kids with them.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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the coiled spring
Shipmate
# 2872
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Posted
quote:
do I take it that your position is that you expect Lord Coe to lead a widespread revival in the worship of Zeus as we approach 2012?
I expect Lord Coe being the man he is to make even more millions of pounds at the revival of worship of Zeus or any other god that turns up.
Lord Coe is doing very nice out of the Olympic spirit
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give back to God what He gives so it is used for His glory not ours.
Posts: 2359 | From: mountain top retreat lodge overlooking skegness | Registered: May 2002
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FreeJack
Shipmate
# 10612
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nellie:
I do not have any offers of casual sex. However, if I reach my late thirties and I am still single I will go to a nightclub/bar with the intention of picking up a man and getting it over and done with. In the meantime I will do everything I can to find a soulmate (dating sites etc). My view is that loveless sex with someone you barely know is better than no sex, at all, ever. Waking up in a strangers bed could not possibly make me feel any worse than I already do.
Welcome to the ship!
How far away are you from the North West London
area, by the way? For research purposes only.
Posts: 3588 | Registered: Oct 2005
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sharkshooter
Not your average shark
# 1589
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nellie:
... if I reach my late thirties and I am still single I will go to a nightclub/bar with the intention of picking up a man and getting it over and done with. .
That's not sex before marriage - that's sex with no intention of marriage.
You might as well use the yellow pages.
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Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. [Psalm 19:14]
Posts: 7772 | From: Canada; Washington DC; Phoenix; it's complicated | Registered: Oct 2001
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RadicalWhig
Shipmate
# 13190
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nellie:
My view is that loveless sex with someone you barely know is better than no sex, at all, ever.
I fear you might be very wrong there. Is "bad sex" really better than "no sex"?
Bad sex can be emotionally, psychologically and physically damaging. And sex procured from a drunk guy in a nightclub is likely to be very bad indeed (not to mention potentially dangerous). Masturbation is always the safer option.
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
This is no doubt an un-Christian POV, but if you approach the dreaded late thirties unfulfilled, at least try to cultivate some male friends to like and trust and see about getting some "benefits". But don't have kids with them.
Indeed. "Friends with benefits" is complicated, but it is a lot better (and safer) than meaningless sex with a drunk guy in a nightclub.
Also, having close friendships of the opposite sex will help you to work out who is, and who is not, marriageable material.
[ 29. July 2009, 23:03: Message edited by: RadicalWhig ]
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Radical Whiggery for Beginners: "Trampling on the Common Prayer Book, talking against the Scriptures, commending Commonwealths, justifying the murder of King Charles I, railing against priests in general." (Sir Arthur Charlett on John Toland, 1695)
Posts: 3193 | From: Scotland | Registered: Nov 2007
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the coiled spring
Shipmate
# 2872
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Posted
quote:
Assuming this is a reference to the Archbishop of Canterbury,
Shock! Horror! Panic!
Could this be what you are hinting at. I thought pagan activity in church went back centuries.
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give back to God what He gives so it is used for His glory not ours.
Posts: 2359 | From: mountain top retreat lodge overlooking skegness | Registered: May 2002
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infinite_monkey
Shipmate
# 11333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nellie:
My view is that loveless sex with someone you barely know is better than no sex, at all, ever.
Welcome to the Ship, Nellie! Reading your posts, I get a sense that you feel like you've missed out (deliberately or otherwise) on a fundamental part of the human experience, and you're consigning yourself to something you yourself identify as second-rate if you get to a point where you've spent "too long" without it. I'd encourage you to pick that apart a bit--it sounds to me like you're selling yourself short.
Joan of Arc was not sexually active. Neither was Nikolai Tesla, Handel, Emily Dickinson, Kierkegaard, or Elizabeth the I. I don't think, given the richness of their lives in other ways, one can really point to these folks as people whose lives are made much poorer by missing out on a crucial aspect of human experience--and if one were to do that, I don't think that sex in a bar would have fixed it.
I think we live at a time when the message most of us are getting is that all the non-losers are bonking like rabbits and it's the ONLY human thing to want to do that, too. Speaking as someone whose first kiss didn't happen until halfway through college, who's now been willingly celibate for several years (with religious convictions actually having bugger-all to do with it...), I know how pervasive and unsettling the message can be that it's just WEIRD to not be having sex.
But that can get twisted in some fairly insidious ways, if one's honest hopes for and feelings about sex differ significantly from what's immediately available. Sex really isn't something, I think, that needs to "get done" by any certain age. It's not like walking around an unfamiliar town, looking for a place to eat dinner: at some point, you might need to just try out a place that doesn't look GREAT because you actually do need to eat something soon.
I guess I just think you don't need to settle: sex isn't something you have to get out of the way. To me, it's both more and less important than that pop-culture mindset makes it: too important to just go through the motions because you think it's what folks do, but not nearly so important that a life without it's meaningless.
Just my two cents worth.
[ 30. July 2009, 06:54: Message edited by: infinite_monkey ]
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His light was lifted just above the Law,
And now we have to live with what we did with what we saw.
--Dar Williams, And a God Descended
Obligatory Blog Flog: www.otherteacher.wordpress.com
Posts: 1423 | From: left coast united states | Registered: Apr 2006
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Jolly Jape
Shipmate
# 3296
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by the coiled spring:
quote:
Assuming this is a reference to the Archbishop of Canterbury,
Shock! Horror! Panic!
Could this be what you are hinting at. I thought pagan activity in church went back centuries.
Actually, I rather thought it was what you were hinting at. And, of course, as your link points out, the induction of Rowan as "druid" has as much of a link to paganism as the Olympics has to the Greek gods. I'm not sure what else you could mean, unless it is the borrowing of the word "Easter" or the fact that we gather for worship on a Sunday rather than "Dimanche"
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To those who have never seen the flow and ebb of God's grace in their lives, it means nothing. To those who have seen it, even fleetingly, even only once - it is life itself. (Adeodatus)
Posts: 3011 | From: A village of gardens | Registered: Sep 2002
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Hawk
Semi-social raptor
# 14289
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by the coiled spring:
quote:
Assuming this is a reference to the Archbishop of Canterbury,
Shock! Horror! Panic!
Could this be what you are hinting at. I thought pagan activity in church went back centuries.
Seriously, what on earth are you going on about? You're talking in riddles and not making any sense at all. Your link has nothing to do with paganism.
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“We are to find God in what we know, not in what we don't know." Dietrich Bonhoeffer
See my blog for 'interesting' thoughts
Posts: 1739 | From: Oxford, UK | Registered: Nov 2008
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amber.
Ship's Aspiedestra
# 11142
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sharkshooter:
quote:
Originally posted by Nellie:
... if I reach my late thirties and I am still single I will go to a nightclub/bar with the intention of picking up a man and getting it over and done with. .
That's not sex before marriage - that's sex with no intention of marriage.You might as well use the yellow pages.
![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif) Sounds very uncomfortable, and the pages might be very creased afterwards.
Posts: 5102 | From: Central South of England | Registered: Mar 2006
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the coiled spring
Shipmate
# 2872
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Posted
quote:
Seriously, what on earth are you going on about? You're talking in riddles and not making any sense at all. Your link has nothing to do with paganism.
Thank you for educating me on druids/bards have nothing to do with paganism. One lives and learns something new every day.
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give back to God what He gives so it is used for His glory not ours.
Posts: 2359 | From: mountain top retreat lodge overlooking skegness | Registered: May 2002
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Hawk
Semi-social raptor
# 14289
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Posted
Well, now you know. And knowing is half the battle.
Read your own link next time though. It explains the difference quite clearly.
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“We are to find God in what we know, not in what we don't know." Dietrich Bonhoeffer
See my blog for 'interesting' thoughts
Posts: 1739 | From: Oxford, UK | Registered: Nov 2008
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Agreeing with everybody else. "Getting it over and done with" is a far better approach to dentistry than to sex. Bad sex (particularly if it's your first time!) can be far, far worse than no sex at all. And since the emotional side of life makes such a huge difference in this area, picking up a stranger is almost guaranteed to go wrong. Even paying someone would be better, as at least you'd be able to specify how you wanted things to go.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
"Getting it over and done with" is a far better approach to dentistry than to sex.
Lamb Chopped - I'm putting that in the Quotes File! So tempted to change my sig - but I will resist.
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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Hawk
Semi-social raptor
# 14289
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Posted
I'd hate to think of myself so desperate to lose my virginity that I would turn to a stranger for sex. I'm lucky in that I'm still relatively young. I like to imagine that if I reached my late thirties having never enjoyed marraige or sex then I would be dissapointed but accepting of my situation. And if I go to my grave the same then I will still have been happy with my life. Despite what TV shows and silly films try and make me believe I know that there is absolutely no shame in being a life-long celibate, if that is how my life turns out. Perhaps when I get older I will start to talk like Nellie but right now I sincerely hope I never feel that low. Or if I did, I would have perspective enough to resist. Life is filled with hundreds of pleasures and gifts from God. Sex is just one of them. Sometimes awkward, sometimes embarrasing, sometimes dangerous and damaging, only very rarely life-affirming and as wonderful as God intends it to be. And usually only with a very special partner, not just anyone at a bar. If I miss out on this wonderful gift I hope I would be able to console myself with all the other wonderful gifts God has given me.
There are many experiences and pleasures given to us throughout our lives and there are also many things I would love to do that I may never get a chance to do in this lifetime. Sex is just one thing. Why is this one thing so important to you? Especially when it is probably not nearly going to be as good as you imagine it will be. (Things usually aren't, especially if you start to build it up in your mind as the One Big Thing.)
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“We are to find God in what we know, not in what we don't know." Dietrich Bonhoeffer
See my blog for 'interesting' thoughts
Posts: 1739 | From: Oxford, UK | Registered: Nov 2008
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sharkshooter
Not your average shark
# 1589
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Posted
Hawk, meet Nellie. Nellie, Hawk.
Well, you wouldn't be the first SoF couple.
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Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. [Psalm 19:14]
Posts: 7772 | From: Canada; Washington DC; Phoenix; it's complicated | Registered: Oct 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RadicalWhig:
Also, having close friendships of the opposite sex will help you to work out who is, and who is not, marriageable material.
A much easier problem than the reverse-polarity one most men get faced with.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by infinite_monkey:
Speaking as someone [...] who's now been willingly celibate for several years .
What possible relevance can the experience of the willingly celibate have for the unwillingly single?
The snake gets by with no legs, but that's no consolation to a crippled dog.
[ 30. July 2009, 12:13: Message edited by: ken ]
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Nellie
Apprentice
# 14935
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by FreeJack:
[
How far away are you from the North West London
area, by the way? For research purposes only. [/QB]
Not too far.
quote:
Originally posted by amber.:
Sounds very uncomfortable, and the pages might be very creased afterwards. [/QB]
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
QUOTE]Originally posted by sharkshooter:
Hawk, meet Nellie. Nellie, Hawk.
Well, you wouldn't be the first SoF couple. [/QUOTE]
I assumed hawk was female!
Posts: 15 | Registered: Jul 2009
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Hawk
Semi-social raptor
# 14289
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nellie:
I assumed hawk was female!
Nope. See my Avatar. It doesn't look anything like me but at least it's the right gender.
[ 30. July 2009, 15:25: Message edited by: Hawk ]
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“We are to find God in what we know, not in what we don't know." Dietrich Bonhoeffer
See my blog for 'interesting' thoughts
Posts: 1739 | From: Oxford, UK | Registered: Nov 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by infinite_monkey:
Speaking as someone [...] who's now been willingly celibate for several years .
What possible relevance can the experience of the willingly celibate have for the unwillingly single?
The snake gets by with no legs, but that's no consolation to a crippled dog.
Interesting comparison. So the willingly celebate and the unwillingly celebate are as different as a snake is from a dog? Talk about placing too much importance on sex.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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FreeJack
Shipmate
# 10612
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nellie:
quote:
Originally posted by FreeJack:
How far away are you from the North West London
area, by the way? For research purposes only.
Not too far.
Well I'm male and I'm free! I've got a few friends who I am sure would be delighted to help you if it gets to that point.
In all seriousness don't give up hope, there are single male Christians around.
Posts: 3588 | Registered: Oct 2005
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
I am an old woman married for over twenty years but I've come to see the bond of marriage as a way to experience the bliss of transcending duality. 'The two shall become on flesh' if you are lucky enough.
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Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
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Jahlove
Tied to the mast
# 10290
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Posted
Can't endorse waiting until late 30s to hit the bars and clubs - by then, even the All Aboard the Skylark quick-trip-round-the-bay excursion is likely to have departed.
"Sex without love is a meaningless experience, but as far as meaningless experiences go, it's pretty damn good." (Woody Allen)
[ 31. July 2009, 17:30: Message edited by: Jahlove ]
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“Sing like no one's listening, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody's watching, and live like its heaven on earth.” - Mark Twain
Posts: 6477 | From: Alice's Restaurant (UK Franchise) | Registered: Sep 2005
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Jahlove
Tied to the mast
# 10290
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Posted
cheers, leo ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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“Sing like no one's listening, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody's watching, and live like its heaven on earth.” - Mark Twain
Posts: 6477 | From: Alice's Restaurant (UK Franchise) | Registered: Sep 2005
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Liberty
ship's football fanatic
# 713
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Posted
I'm admiring your subtlety Sharkshooter
I'm talking generally, rather than just specifically about my own marriage, although I'd include that too. But the thing about waiting is that it can make sex out to be all-important. Especially if situations occur where sex would/could occur. I'm not saying waiting is bad per se, just that it builds it up in an unhelpful way.
ij x
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"I'ma be what I set out to be, without a doubt, undoubtedly"
Posts: 1879 | From: SW2 to 20009 | Registered: Jul 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by icklejen:
Especially if situations occur where sex would/could occur.
This part of your post really caught my attention. What kind of situations are you thinking of, where sex would occur if we didn't stop it from doing so? It makes it sound like "sex" is this autonomous entity that has its own ideas and undertakes its own decisions, and we infringe upon its appetites at our own peril. I mean, aren't men encouraged NOT to think with the small head?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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RadicalWhig
Shipmate
# 13190
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by icklejen:
Especially if situations occur where sex would/could occur.
This part of your post really caught my attention. What kind of situations are you thinking of, where sex would occur if we didn't stop it from doing so? It makes it sound like "sex" is this autonomous entity that has its own ideas and undertakes its own decisions, and we infringe upon its appetites at our own peril. I mean, aren't men encouraged NOT to think with the small head?
Ever heard of "one thing led to another", or "nature taking its course"? We are evolved to replicate, and in the right conditions it can happen quite easily without having to think too much about it.
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Radical Whiggery for Beginners: "Trampling on the Common Prayer Book, talking against the Scriptures, commending Commonwealths, justifying the murder of King Charles I, railing against priests in general." (Sir Arthur Charlett on John Toland, 1695)
Posts: 3193 | From: Scotland | Registered: Nov 2007
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Liberty
ship's football fanatic
# 713
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Posted
Well, I was going to say if situations arise where sex could/would occur... But I though better of it.
I guess I was meaning that one can wait because there's no clear obvious partner to have sex with (yes, it can always be bought but no situations when one has to consciously stop sex happening). And then one can wait and have to consciously stop what seems 'natural'.
Both can lead to sex being built up as hugely important. But in particular I was commenting that the latter can lead to the idea that sex is gonna be this whole other special dimension within a relationship. And its not. But YMMV.
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"I'ma be what I set out to be, without a doubt, undoubtedly"
Posts: 1879 | From: SW2 to 20009 | Registered: Jul 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
So in other words if you think sex is meant to be enjoyed within marriage, and if you're not fucking like bunnies at every opportunity, you place too high an importance on sex. Is that the take-away message?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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the coiled spring
Shipmate
# 2872
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Posted
quote:
Is that the take-away message?
I alway thought a take away was a number 3 15 23 27 29 35 56 from local Chinese takeaway...is there another meaning, please tell
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give back to God what He gives so it is used for His glory not ours.
Posts: 2359 | From: mountain top retreat lodge overlooking skegness | Registered: May 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
The message we're meant to remember as we drive home. The condensed essence of the conversation. That sort of thing.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Liberty
ship's football fanatic
# 713
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Posted
Someone can think that sex is meant to be enjoyed in marriage or they can think it is meant to be enjoyed outside of marriage*. They can be at it like proverbial rabbits or not.** And any combination of these. They can still see sex for what it is - not the be-all and end-all.***
I was just thinking that by consciously 'waiting', and wanting it but not (perhaps because your body and your beliefs contradict), then it can (but won't always) lead to giving it more weight than it should have (IMHO!). And I think that is something that the Church often overlooks when it is teaching about the importance of waiting.
But like I said, YMMV.
ij
*(I'm undecided, hence reading this thread!)
**(I'm not - the Circus takes up too much time!)
*** (Maybe I'm just doing it reeaally wrong)
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"I'ma be what I set out to be, without a doubt, undoubtedly"
Posts: 1879 | From: SW2 to 20009 | Registered: Jul 2001
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Nellie
Apprentice
# 14935
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Posted
Thank you Icklejen, I think that is the reason why I am in this frustrating situation. I have hung on....and on....and on, and have managed to convince myself that sex is the best thing ever and my first experience (whether married or not) will be flawless and fantastic. I think I would have a far more realistic view of sex had I not decided to wait.
Posts: 15 | Registered: Jul 2009
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