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Source: (consider it) Thread: Should we accept that all scripture is to be accepted as truth?
Jim Powell

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2Timothy 3:16 Says All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching,for reproof,for correction,for training in righteousness.
2Peter1:20 But know this first of all,that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of ones own interpretation.
21.for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
I do not see that we have authority to just pick out those sections that we like,and reject the parts that we may dislike.
What think Ye?
All the best Jim

--------------------
After being judged for our sins,Our Lord said"It is finished"
(The work of our salvation)

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Nicolemr
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if i can pick to ignore what i want, then i can ignore the section you just quoted, right?

so there you go....

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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!


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Dave the Bass
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2 Timothy says nothing about Scripture being true in the literal, modernist sense, merely that it is useful for teaching, etc. Strories, parables, metaphors can all be used in teaching, but aren't necessarily true - they're a means of conveying truth.

DaveC


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starbelly
but you can call me Neil
# 25

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Where does the idea of Scripture being "True" come from? is it a recent development or would it have been shared by the early christians?
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Lyra
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If all scripture is true, could someone tell me which one of the creation stories is the one I should quote?

And where does Song of Songs fit in to this theory?

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Louise
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quote:
And where does the song of songs fit in to this theory?


quote:

Cant.7 1.[7] You are stately as a palm tree,
and your breasts are like its clusters.
2.[8] I say I will climb the palm tree and lay hold of its branches.


That's obviously 'profitable for teaching' but it's a bit tough on men who don't get attracted to palm trees.

Surely the problem arises when people take the Timothy quote to mean 'the bits in the Bible which I say are to be taken literally are to be taken literally - so there!'

For instance some people insist that six-day creation is to be taken literally and then insist that the Song of Songs is an allegory of Christ's love to his Church and not someone having fun writing enjoyably about er... sex.

It seems to me that quite often people who accuse others of picking and choosing are up to the same thing themselves - picking and choosing what to treat as allegorical and what to treat literally, but not admitting that that is what is going on.

Just my tuppence worth (how many Euros is that?)

Louise

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Martin60
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All Christians believe in the validity, the truth OF the Bible, by definition.

What is your truth of the Bible, Jim?

That the vast majority of non-Anglo-Saxon humanity are going to burn forever.

That's one of your truths.

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Love wins


Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
starbelly
but you can call me Neil
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quote:
All Christians believe in the validity, the truth OF the Bible, by definition.

By definition? I dont think belief in the Bible is the definition of a christian.
Belief in Jesus is the criteria, and even that can be stretched to include many differant beliefs!

And Jim was only opening a debate, no need to jump to massive conclusions about his beliefs Martin!


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dyfrig
Blue Scarfed Menace
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Allowing for a date of c.AD65 for 2 Timothy having been written, this means that approximately 45% of the writings of the NT hadn't yet been set down. Yet, later, the Church designated these later writings (Matt, Luke-Acts, John, the Johannine epistles and Revelation) as "scripture". (So, I suppose technically you cannot proof-text anything post-2 Tim with 2 Tim)

So what is "scripture"? Is it basically whatever the Church says it is? Or can it be "measured" or "criteriafied"?

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"He was wrong in the long run, but then, who isn't?" - Tony Judt


Posts: 6917 | From: pob dydd Iau, am hanner dydd | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Imaginary Friend

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hi all

in my opinion all scripture is useful, but you also have to interpret scripture consistently.
To take an example close to home at the moment: If you accept that women should not speak in church or have authority over a man because of what Paul says in 1 Tim 2 then you should also insist that they pray with covered heads because of what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 11.
Maybe on an aside, I think that if you interpret all scripture as being literal, then you will go nuts at all the contradictions there are there. (but god can allow paradoxes so that's ok?!)

whoops, I was going to try and keep those issues out of my posts for a week or two. Now look what you made me do!!!

if anyone disagrees, i'd like to hear they're views.

dave 8o)

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough


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Martin60
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Starbelly

Where did you get your knowledge of Christ from?

What makes you think I'm jumping to any conclusions about Jim?

Why doesn't he refute what I KNOW he believes?

Ask him.

He believes that only those paltry few mainly Anglo-Saxons who proclaim Jesus as their saviour are saved, apart from some arbitrary cut-off of innocence for some children.

He believes that most of humanity were created to burn and not even be evangelized they are so worthless.

Don't you Jim?

Welcome to the Thieme Park

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Love wins


Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
starbelly
but you can call me Neil
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My knowledge of Christ come from all differant sources, hence my vaugeness about what makes a christian, although I am not saying that people "other relgions" are christians, just that the definition is larger than a small group of conservitive evangelicals.
And with regard to Jim, I can only judge him on the posts of his that I have read, and assumed that you would have done the same, although now I realise that there is perhaps some knowledge of each other (and many others?) from a previous encounter?

and I now realise I have gone off topic, so I resume everyone to:

"Should we accept that all scripture is to be accepted as truth? "
Discuss!


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Jim Powell

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Martin P,C.I Joined this group because of their 10 Commandments.And I will not respond(except this once) to personal attacks according to the rules on here,or to distortions of what I have stated in the past.
All the best Jim.

--------------------
After being judged for our sins,Our Lord said"It is finished"
(The work of our salvation)

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David
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Jim,

Where was the personal attack?


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QLib

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Jim - 2Peter 1v.20 seems to me to be aimed at the gnostic heresy i.e. the idea that there is some secret or hidden knowledge based on 'private' interpretation that the scripture does not actually mean what it appears to mean. Interestingly Peter does not say that scripture reveals the mind of Christ but rather that "holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.

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Martin60
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Jim is going to continue to hide his dysangelism legalistically behind the 10 Kommandments.

I find his use of the word 'distortion' interesting.

How does one distort primitive Calvinism? How does one distort the horrible, bleak, graceless, racist, inadequate 'theology' of most non-Orthodox-Catholic-Anglican-Methodist-Episcopalians?

Starbelly, you get your knowledge of Christ from the Bible and apostolic witness, ultimately. The Word of God. Just as the great Karl Barth did: 'Jesus loves me, this I know, 'cos the Bible tells me so'.

I repeat all Christians, by definition, accept the truth of the Bible.

The question is what do we mean by truth.

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Love wins


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babybear
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Can you please spell it out to us Martin, what is the definition of a Christian?

bb


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starbelly
but you can call me Neil
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1. I think that perhaps Jim is being victimesed slightly here, He asks a question here, and you seem intent of finding "hidden agendas" and Heresy, that from my reading of his responses so far, he is as blameless as the rest of us (ie. full of hidden agendas and heresy only joking )

2. I re-state that my knowledge of Christ comes through many sources, some that lead back to the Bible, so which do not. I know about the Mind of Christ through prophecy for today, Seeing Gods Love in others, Extra biblical books of the early church, personal revelation (some people through dreams and visions). I will of course admit the the Bible is the clearest description of Jesus and Gods plan for humanity, but it is concievable for people to be a christian without any knowledge of the Bible (as indeed tribes that have had no missionary influence, have been found to have Christian beliefs).

3. Truth...oh I wish I knew!


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Martin60
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A Christian - Effectively: One who believes in the most provident possible grace of God as revealed by His incarnation as Jesus and who reponds beyond belief.

Which excludes most of us : )

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Love wins


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Martin60
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Astrogastro

I like your style.

You'd make a good defence lawyer. I'd like to be a prosecutor or defendant in your court.

Jim and I have previous, on ChurchNetUk, currently the midden of a nauseatingly sanctimonious anti-semite (I'm not frightened of libel, just the paranoia here about it.)

[libelous content deleted again, this is getting tiresome]

My agenda is to engage as dialectically as possible with those whose gospel is graceless (Calvinists) or intellectually inadequate (Charismatics), especially from those who imagine they have grace or intellect, which I merely aspire to.

I want to see the better men and women than I here deal with the filth we have to put up with on ChurchNet. If you won't come out of your cozy ivory tower, we will come to you.

Martin

Looking for grace.

[ 10 June 2001: Message edited by: Erin ]

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Love wins


Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
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Other people's truth, endorsed by the likes of Jim - how on EARTH does one deal with this?

From: Dr. John S. Weekes (chaberpublishing@aol.com)

In my book Understanding The Doctrine Of The Trinity, I expressed the view, that the holocaust, although immediately carries out by Hitler and his henchmen, was within the permissive will of God and as such the nemesis that overtook a people, imprudent enough and reckless enough to murder their Messiah, King and God, simply becuse he proclaimed love for others too! What do readers think?

I told him what I thought and I QUOTE (so that can't be libellous):

From: You stupid, ignorant, graceless, fascist lunatic. (martin.clarke4@ntlworld.com)

Whatever befalls you, will we judge you as you judge the Jews? You are a disgrace worse than that charlatan David Irving.

And:

My dear friend, I realise that you do not understand what you say. You call me names. I pray that your heart and your mind and your intellect such as you have, may become not only seasoned, but that your hot head will mellow and the love of God will find a place in your heart and your life. I have replied more fully elsewhere. I have been accused of not replying promptly. But my experience and training teach me to allow cooling time, especially when dealing with troubled minds, minds that are easily impassioned. Looking at your words, and listening to your heart, I perceive that you are made of the very stuff that hilter and his kind are made of. Do not be so angry, my friend. You do not know it; but I know you have misjudged me. The heavenly Father knows you have misjudged me. For your information, I can say in a sense that King George III only imagined, "I glory in the name of Brittain," and of course my Father, who art in heaven. I served at RAF Tangmere where the battle of Brittain started. As a former lecturer in constitutional law, I am a Royalist/Conservative. I grimaced when I learnt that the Hereditary Peerage system was abolished. I pray and hope that the Monarchy, despite its troubles, will not be meddled with. Do you still think that I am more of a fascist than you are? God bless, peace and love my angry friends. I am sorry if I dissapoint you by not lashing back at you with angry words. Beleive me, I used to be very good at hurling insults. ome of my friends used to think I was a master. But now I know only peace, love, long-suffering and charity.

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Love wins


Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Imaginary Friend

Real to you
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quote:
Originally posted by Martin PC not:
Other people's truth, endorsed by the likes of Jim - how on EARTH does one deal with this?

Smile, nod and ignore?

Perhaps more helpfully:
In response to "Do you still think that I am more of a fascist than you are?" you could point out that if the jews hadn't killed jesus we wouldn't have any christian faith today. Therefore God is not likely to be mad at them!!

dave 8o)

--------------------
"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough


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babybear
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quote:
Originally posted by Martin PC not:
(I'm not frightened of libel, just the paranoia here about it.)

(OOOH! LIBEL ALERT


I would like to remind you that
libel is included within the Ship's 10 Commandments (no. 7). One person has already departed because he could not keep these commandments.

bb


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dyfrig
Blue Scarfed Menace
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To address Jim's original question, yes I do think we should take the Bible very seriously indeed.

We should take very seriously the fact that it is not univocal.

It has many different strands - cp. Gen 1 with Gen 2-3; the variety of voices in the psalms; the difference in understanding of God between, say, the Torah and the prophets; the variety of voices in the NT). We have to accept these differences exist and also that the editors/compilers/canonisers of these texts had no problem with these inner tensions, so why should we try to impose an outward uniformity?

And we must also avoid making one part of the Bible the touchstone for the rest. For example, conservative Reformed theology reads the bible through the tradition it has built upon Luther and Calvin's thought - both of whom used Paul as there main entry into the biblical text. So, whilst it may internally be very consistnet (can one have degrees consistency? Never mind), this "Evangelical" claims to be faithful to the Bible is in itself untrue as it does not do justice to the whole Bible, only those parts that are sympathetic to and bolster particular theologies.

--------------------
"He was wrong in the long run, but then, who isn't?" - Tony Judt


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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
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Administrator's notes

quote:
Originally posted by Martin PC not:

Jim and I have previous, on ChurchNetUk, currently the midden of a nauseatingly sanctimonious anti-semite (I'm not frightened of libel, just the paranoia here about it.)

How very very brave of you to not be concerned about libel, considering that it is not your career/website/money/ass on the line. For us, however, it is. If you're in such a dire need to post this stuff on the Internet, my suggestion is you shell out some money for a site of your own and post it there.

In your posts you have broken Commandment 7, by continuing to post what you knew was libel, and Commandment 6, by ignoring Simon's rulings, and ultimately Commandment 1, because in ignoring Commandments 6 and 7, you're being a jerk in the process. Plus I'm thinking that you're in violation of Commandment 8, because you've got quite the little crusade going against a few individuals and organizations.

First warning -- you may get a second, you won't get a third. Either conform to the 10Cs, or you're gone.

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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.


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Moo

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I'm glad to have all these new people on board, but please don't bring your quarrels with you from other websites.

We can generate all the quarrels we require. In fact, we can generate considerably more than we require.

Moo

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See you later, alligator.


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Will
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All scripture is Truth. Not all of it is literal Truth.

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Shalom, Will.

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Moo

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Please note that in the above post, I was talking about quarrels, not disagreements.

Moo

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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.


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Will
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# 356

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I do not know anything about previous encounters, but what Martin PC not posted of what Jim said...I have to agree with Martin. It definitely has an antisemitism ring to it and a narrow way of searching for truth.
But then, according to Jim, since I am a Jew, I am condemned already, replaced by the church and get what I deserve?
Any room for inclusiveness Jim?

--------------------
Shalom, Will.

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Nightlamp
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Will I find nothing antisemitic in what Jim has written here just martinPc on some kind of odd crusade.
He has posed a question about the authority of scripture.
And now to think about the issue in hand

I think it is intresting to note different strands with in the Bible; Paul saying women being silent. We have Phoebec (in Romans) the first woman Deacon and the daughters of Philip being prophets. so we have tension between women not be allowed to have authority and women having authority.

Which is true?

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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp


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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
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Moo has a very good point. If you're coming from other websites, leave your personal differences at the door. We're not interested. Debate what is posted on this board only.

Erin

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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.


Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jim Powell

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Will.. I am disappointed that I find it necessary to defend myself.I promise you that I am not antijewish.FAR FAR from it!! I am very pro Israel.Satan is antijewish,and many of those he controls.My Pastor has declared if anyone in his Church wishs to be antisemitic that they should leave!!!!!!!
I accept the promise given to Abraham,that those who bless you I will bless,and those who curse you I will curse.
I love the word of God and am grateful to the JEWISH writers used by God to give his truth to all.
I believe that salvation is faith alone in Christ alone.This does not make me a hater of Israel.Indeed I have several fine friends who are Jewish.
All the best Jim

--------------------
After being judged for our sins,Our Lord said"It is finished"
(The work of our salvation)

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Martin60
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My dear Administrator.

My apologies for in any way threatening your livelihood or well being.

I hadn't the faintest idea that I could be.

I had no idea the situation was so delicate.

Furthermore I hadn't any idea that my comments were being edited, nothing was said directly to me. I've been intemperate.

Forgive me.

I'm sorry to have caused you to be so draconian. It saddens me in ways you can't imagine.

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Love wins


Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Phil R.
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# 128

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quote:
Originally posted by Will:
All scripture is Truth. Not all of it is literal Truth.

Are you saying that it's all true, but sometimes when it says "a double headed eagle" it is an analogy, and other times it means a bird with two heads?

If so I agree. The problems come when we try to decide what's literal and what isn't. That can be as difficult as deciding what's true or not.

I guess if I wanted to I could counter any passage which challenged my lifestyle/thinking/attitudes with "Ah, but that's not meant to be taken literally"... But more often I just have to say "I dunno."


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Nightlamp
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# 266

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Pilate said
What is truth?
someone please define for this thread

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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp

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Will
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim Powell:
Will.. I am disappointed that I find it necessary to defend myself.I promise you that I am not antijewish.FAR FAR from it!! I am very pro Israel.Satan is antijewish,and many of those he controls.My Pastor has declared if anyone in his Church wishs to be antisemitic that they should leave!!!!!!!
I accept the promise given to Abraham,that those who bless you I will bless,and those who curse you I will curse.
I love the word of God and am grateful to the JEWISH writers used by God to give his truth to all.
I believe that salvation is faith alone in Christ alone.This does not make me a hater of Israel.Indeed I have several fine friends who are Jewish.
All the best Jim

My sincerest apologies then, Jim. Maybe I am carrying some baggage from other encounters, also. I apologize to everyone.

--------------------
Shalom, Will.


Posts: 60 | From: Tx. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mouse
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# 315

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quote:
Originally posted by Jim Powell:
Will.. I am disappointed that I find it necessary to defend myself.I promise you that I am not antijewish.FAR FAR from it!! I am very pro Israel.Satan is antijewish,and many of those he controls.My Pastor has declared if anyone in his Church wishs to be antisemitic that they should leave!!!!!!!
I accept the promise given to Abraham,that those who bless you I will bless,and those who curse you I will curse.
I love the word of God and am grateful to the JEWISH writers used by God to give his truth to all.
I believe that salvation is faith alone in Christ alone.This does not make me a hater of Israel.Indeed I have several fine friends who are Jewish.
All the best Jim

Jim,

I can see you're grateful that God used His people of Ancient Israel to pass along His words of truth and you're also grateful that they begatted the Jewish-born Jesus.

But I'm wondering if you believe that our Jewish friend Will and his fellow-Israelites will suffer an eternity of torment unless he and they profess Jesus as their Saviour before they go to their graves?

Just an honest question waiting for an honest answer.

Mouse


Posts: 142 | From: England | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
starbelly
but you can call me Neil
# 25

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Surely many - if not most Christians see no reason why Jews today should be "saved" without some kind of faith in Jesus - Surely this belief does not put them all in "cult" territory, as Jim has seemed to be accused of?
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Mouse
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# 315

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quote:
Originally posted by starbelly:
Surely many - if not most Christians see no reason why Jews today should be "saved" without some kind of faith in Jesus - Surely this belief does not put them all in "cult" territory, as Jim has seemed to be accused of?

I understand that this is a major belief for many Christians. I didn't imply it was "cult territory" in my reply here.

I was specifically asking for Jim's response on the statements he made to Will.

And I'm still waiting.

Mouse


Posts: 142 | From: England | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
starbelly
but you can call me Neil
# 25

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Soory Mouse, that was not intended for you! You were asking a perfectly good question.]
It was intended for those posters before you who seemed to pick up on this.
Sorry

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Mouse
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# 315

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Ta, starbelly.

I spent most of my life in a 'Christian cult' that my parents joined when I was a kid. It hurt like hell when God delivered me and thousands of others out of that. Its hard to realise that you've been duped and stuffed into someone else's belief-universe. Its been a hard struggle coming out of that. I hate psychological abuse, especially if it comes packaged as religion. I'm struggling to learn how to think for myself instead of with someone else's programmed thoughts. Sorry if I came back to your reply a bit too strongly.

Mouse


Posts: 142 | From: England | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Steve_R
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# 61

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quote:
Originally posted by starbelly:
Surely many - if not most Christians see no reason why Jews today should be "saved" without some kind of faith in Jesus - Surely this belief does not put them all in "cult" territory, as Jim has seemed to be accused of?

But if we follow this arguement through then we suggest that God will take the whole of the Jewish race and condemn them to some sort of eternal punishment. This is only a step away from justifying the holocaust. This we surely cannot and must not accept from the loving God we claim as our own.

--------------------
Love and Kisses, Steve_R


Posts: 990 | From: East Sussex | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
starbelly
but you can call me Neil
# 25

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quote:
. I'm struggling to learn how to think for myself instead of with someone else's programmed thoughts. Sorry if I came back to your reply a bit too strongly.


Not at all, sorry to hear about that Mouse, I guess I am, in a much smaller way, dealing with the fact that I can now decide what I really believe, For myself, without being forced into anything by parents, work or groups.
The freedom I have found is liberating, but confusing - I still have not found a coherant world veiw, as I am still mixing ideas around!

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Jim Powell

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# 323

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Mouse...To me the issue of salvation is very simple,Christ died as a substitute for all the world so all of the world can be saved. He is the only way of salvation,he was the saviour of Abraham,Moses,David,Adam&Eve.
John3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son,that whoever believes in him should not perish,but have eternal life.
17. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world,but that the world should be saved through him.
18.He who believes is not judged;he who does not believe has been judged already,because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
I accept that Christ has always been the way of salvation for all of humanity,and that color,or race is no issue.
All the best Jim.

--------------------
After being judged for our sins,Our Lord said"It is finished"
(The work of our salvation)

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Jim Powell

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# 323

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Will.Everything is cool thanks for your kind words.
All the best Jim

--------------------
After being judged for our sins,Our Lord said"It is finished"
(The work of our salvation)

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by Jim Powell:
To me the issue of salvation is very simple,Christ died as a substitute for all the world so all of the world can be saved. He is the only way of salvation,he was the saviour of Abraham,Moses,David,Adam&Eve.
John3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son,that whoever believes in him should not perish,but have eternal life.
17. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world,but that the world should be saved through him.
18.He who believes is not judged;he who does not believe has been judged already,because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
I accept that Christ has always been the way of salvation for all of humanity,and that color,or race is no issue.

So you believe that Abraham, Moses, et al. "believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God"?

Also, Jim, what is your take on Jews today, who do not regard Jesus as the Son of God?


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Mouse
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# 315

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quote:
Originally posted by Jim Powell:
Mouse...To me the issue of salvation is very simple,Christ died as a substitute for all the world so all of the world can be saved. He is the only way of salvation,he was the saviour of Abraham,Moses,David,Adam&Eve.
John3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son,that whoever believes in him should not perish,but have eternal life.
17. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world,but that the world should be saved through him.
18.He who believes is not judged;he who does not believe has been judged already,because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
I accept that Christ has always been the way of salvation for all of humanity,and that color,or race is no issue.
All the best Jim.

Jim, do you know that 'judgment' is not the same thing as 'damnation'?

I wouldn't want to confuse the two.

You quoted John 3.17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world,but that the world should be saved through him.

But John 5:22 says, For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son.

And John 9:39 says, And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

Clearly Jesus did come here to judge the world, Jim.

You also quoted John 3.18, He who believes is not judged;he who does not believe has been judged already,because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

But God wrote through Peter in 1Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

I'm sure you would agree that Peter was a believer and that he taught that God is judging believers, wouldn't you?

If someone wanted to substitute the word 'damnation' for 'judgment' I suppose they could do that. It wouldn't be true to scripture, of course. Hopefully your qualified, original-languages Bible teacher doesn't substitute the word 'damnation' for 'judgment'.

By the way, Jim, just how simple is it for people to believe in Jesus Christ if they've never heard of Him in their lives?

Mouse


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Nightlamp
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# 266

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we still have not decided what Truth would mean for this thread?

For instance does 'Vanity vanity, all is vanity' have the same level of Truth as 'God is Love'?
Jim How do you define the Word Truth?

--------------------
I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp


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ptarmigan
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# 138

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"What is truth?" someone has asked more than once. Perhaps the reason no-one has attempted an answer yet (and I'm not about to) is that this apparently simple question, which most people don't even consider, gets more and more difficult the more you think about it. The process of thinking about it can be quite undermining to previous assumptions.

Different people have different types of truth. In modern Western society scientific ideas predominate, so truth has to be demonstrable by experiment, with a culture of wighing, measuring, counting, timekeeping etc. This has not always been the case.

Those who claim that the bible is true should bear the burden of explaining what they mean by truth and how it can be aplied to the different literary forms within the bible. This is not easy.

Pt

P.S. Timothy probably meant the Hebvrew Scriptures. The NT was not yet collected and published nor regarded as scriptural.


Posts: 1080 | From: UK - Midlands | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
starbelly
but you can call me Neil
# 25

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Truth is Truth, it is what is.

The real question perhaps is "what can we know of the truth?"


Posts: 6009 | From: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged



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