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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Living as a Christian Homosexual
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Inanna
Ship's redhead
# 538
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Posted
Actually, I'm still here. And still Christian. And still happily married to my wife (almost 17 year relationship, almost 8 years of marriage). We continue to be involved in a very welcoming Catholic parish, do music ministry (she leads the Saturday night music group), work with the young adult ministry, and simply by being ourselves and letting our light shine, have been used by God in ways that we can't even fully know.
It's not an easy path - but I truly believe that it's where God is calling us to be. Welcome Eru to the journey.
Posts: 1495 | From: Royal Oak, MI | Registered: Jun 2001
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iGeek
Number of the Feast
# 777
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eru the Elf - Wolf:
Some people can change, not all can.
I, for one, am pessimistic about the remainder of "some". I think it's minuscule.
I "changed" at 17, went into the military, married, had kids, and led a very straight life for 30 years. I was the very model of "change through the grace of Christ".
I was simply lying to myself. I was able to change the behavior but not the truth of who I am. God extended grace to bring me out of my delusions and be able to speak truth to myself and to the world.
God and I are on much better terms these days. Not to mention that I've stopped hating myself for something that I now view as morally neutral -- my innate attractions.
Even Exodus success story Alan Chambers has confessed that he still experiences same-sex attraction. "Change is possible", at least with respect to innate orientation, is a massive lie, as far as I can tell.
Posts: 2150 | From: West End, Gulfopolis | Registered: Aug 2002
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ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
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Posted
Building your life on the idea that you're suddenly going to change into ideal heterosexual family-making material strikes me as a foolish idea. Mind you.....
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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
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Eru the Elf - Wolf
Apprentice
# 16530
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Posted
iGeek, I fear you mistook my 'some'. I simply stated that because there are a few people that I've come across that claim to have changed and were reborn from homosexuality and into heterosecxuality. How that happened, well, Exodus International is what they told me to look at. As I stated before, I looked into it and it wasn't a 'cure' for me. Of course this also raises questions as to how many can be 'cured' and what not. That isn't the point.
I for one am glad I can now say this, you are not along iGeek. I am only 21 and in the military as well. Health Care Specialist, but everyone thinks I'm heterosexual. Is that bad? Not really, I mean, it's a bad misconsception to believe all homosexuals are over the top flamboyant. ^^
FooloftheShips - I loved your post. Really. I was laughing on end for at LEAST 10 minutes.
Inaana - Thank you for the greeting, it's only been a year and some change since I last was here, but change indeed happened. I can't believe how much I changed from 19 to 20, and now from 20 to 21. Well... soon to be 21, still have a couple of months to go.
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"In everybody's life, there's one thing that's the most important. Everything else is shit. It's up to you to find what's most important." -City Slickers
Posts: 5 | From: La Mirada, California | Registered: Jul 2011
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LutheranChik:
As far as role models in the Church -- apart from the realization that there have been faithful gay Christians throughout history, I think one useful thing to remember is that early Christians were often condemned for what was considered their "immoral" practice of celibacy; so being a Christian in a sexual minority is nothing new.
I like that. I believe it is very, very important to realise that Christianity, and certainly the NT, do not privilege the family in any way, and indeed critique it.
With all respect to gays with families. But we don't have to be that way.
(Although I could be said to be as domestic as they come)
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by iGeek:
quote:
Originally posted by Eru the Elf - Wolf:
Some people can change, not all can.
I, for one, am pessimistic about the remainder of "some". I think it's minuscule.
This may be relevant.
quote:
Former Ex-Gay Leader Smid Can No Longer Condemn Gays
John Smid, who resigned as Executive Director of Love in Action in 2008, has made his strongest statements yet disavowing the message he preached for years as the head of a ministry that promised gays they could change. Writing on the website of his new ministry, Grace Rivers, Smid says being homosexual (he generally uses this rather clinical term rather than “gay”) is an intrinsic part of a person’s being, not a behaviour he can repent from:
quote:
One cannot repent of something that is unchangeable. I have gone through a tremendous amount of grief over the many years that I spoke of change, repentance, reorientation and such, when, barring some kind of miracle, none of this can occur with homosexuality.
He also makes a confession you won’t hear from Exodus (except Exodus President Alan Chambers in an off-guarded moment, although he later backtracked) — he’s never met a real ex-gay person:
quote:
I also want to reiterate here that the transformation for the vast majority of homosexuals will not include a change of sexual orientation. Actually I’ve never met a man who experienced a change from homosexual to heterosexual.
There seems to be nothing behind those who claim to be able to turn gay people straight other than a bunch of wishful thinking that they can do so.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Invictus_88
Shipmate
# 15352
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Posted
Funny. When I heard a gay man boasting he could 'turn' a straight one, nobody batted an eyelid.
Posts: 206 | Registered: Dec 2009
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Invictus_88:
Funny. When I heard a gay man boasting he could 'turn' a straight one, nobody batted an eyelid.
Probably because he wasn't saying so as part of a very profitable scam playing to people's fears and desperation.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Invictus_88:
Funny. When I heard a gay man boasting he could 'turn' a straight one, nobody batted an eyelid.
Classic gay fantasy. Partly based on the notion that a lot of 'straight' guys are in truth closeted homosexuals or bisexuals.
However fantasy-based it is, there's an element of truth in it. It doesn't tend to work the other way simply because the notion that an outwardly homosexual person is in truth a closeted heterosexual ignores the direction of societal pressure. The pressure is to pretend to be heterosexual, not to pretend to be homosexual when deep down inside you know you're straight.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
Yes, as it turns out, the results of efforts to change sexual orientation are uneven and temporary in both directions.
(Potentially NSFW)
[ 19. October 2011, 00:34: Message edited by: LQ ]
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
There used be a very silly woman at Sydney Uni - she called herself an academic, but it was in only in something like sociology - who said that any woman could be taught to enjoy sex with another woman. She must have had tenure to carry on as she did, and I suspect that she wanted to do the teaching herself. But if she were correct, surely the opposite could be achieved???????
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Donne, Donne, Donne.
Apprentice
# 16761
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Posted
Something that must be a common experience to those who post here. When discussing homosexuality with those of differing viewpoints, there seems to be confusion about what it is. A close relation of mine is a Jehovah's Witness and cannot seem to believe that homosexuality is not a choice (as I believe). It seems as though there is a fixation with the sexual act, instead of any acknowledgement of emotional attraction, union and even love between two people of the same sex. Recalling earlier posts having sexual relations with a member of the same sex does not make one a homosexual or indeed vice versa. I think as Christians we over emphasise a great deal about physical sexuality, when a lot of the time that is not the most important part of the issue at hand.
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'If I might say so, there is something almost blasphemous in this horror of the elements. Are we seriously to suppose that all these clouds, all this immense electrical display, is simply called into existence to extinguish you or me?'
Posts: 22 | From: The Southern Coast. | Registered: Nov 2011
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crynwrcymraeg
Shipmate
# 13018
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Donne, Donne, Donne.:
Something that must be a common experience to those who post here. When discussing homosexuality with those of differing viewpoints, there seems to be confusion about what it is. A close relation of mine is a Jehovah's Witness and cannot seem to believe that homosexuality is not a choice (as I believe). It seems as though there is a fixation with the sexual act, instead of any acknowledgement of emotional attraction, union and even love between two people of the same sex. Recalling earlier posts having sexual relations with a member of the same sex does not make one a homosexual or indeed vice versa. I think as Christians we over emphasise a great deal about physical sexuality, when a lot of the time that is not the most important part of the issue at hand.
Amen to this.
(Been just find the Queer Bible Commentary - recommended on here-- very liberating. Really cheerd me ! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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I ignored the admins and now I'm Erin's bitch.
Posts: 522 | From: Ty'n Coed | Registered: Sep 2007
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krsnv
Apprentice
# 16159
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Posted
a case of timing and who its concerning as with partnerings and marriages but in a relatively more involved way perhaps ? . ..
Posts: 13 | Registered: Jan 2011
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Justinian
Shipmate
# 5357
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
There used be a very silly woman at Sydney Uni - she called herself an academic, but it was in only in something like sociology - who said that any woman could be taught to enjoy sex with another woman. She must have had tenure to carry on as she did, and I suspect that she wanted to do the teaching herself. But if she were correct, surely the opposite could be achieved???????
I'm not sure she's wrong. But that's because I think almost any woman (or man for that matter) can be taught to enjoy sex with their own right hand. But if you need to think of your partner as a substitute for your right hand, the relationship's going to go screwy fast.
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My real name consists of just four letters, but in billions of combinations.
Eudaimonaic Laughter - my blog.
Posts: 3926 | From: The Sea Coast of Bohemia | Registered: Dec 2003
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Justinian, you raise the appalling possibility of yet another form of abomination splitting people asunder. Left handers.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Justinian, you raise the appalling possibility of yet another form of abomination splitting people asunder. Left handers.
Funny, because I brought that up this morning on the fast-and-freewheeling Youtube comments for the new Australian marriage equality campaign.
And I did it precisely because handedness WAS seen, for a very long time, as some kind of moral issue. People were expected to be right handed, regardless of their natural inclination. They were forced to perform activities with their right hand against their brain's own desire to use the left hand. There's a strong argument that a significant proportion of 'ambidextrous' people are left-handers who were pressured by society into using their right.
Also, there is apparently a higher incidence of left-handedness amongst homosexuals. The two traits are somehow linked - I would assume genes that are physically near each other on one of the chromosomes, though I don't know if the science has got as far as establishing that.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
And I did it precisely because handedness WAS seen, for a very long time, as some kind of moral issue. People were expected to be right handed, regardless of their natural inclination. They were forced to perform activities with their right hand against their brain's own desire to use the left hand.
Yes - my husband was forced to use his right hand as a child, and whacked with a ruler if he tried to use his left.
Very similar attitudes to those who say homosexuality is a 'choice'.
Yes, my husband could 'choose' to use his right hand - but it went against the way he was wired, and the people asking him to do so had no good reason except superstition.
A good analogy.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
I can hardly imagine a man's calling his homosexuality a choice. But some women do say that they chose to be Lesbians. Are we supposed to doubt their word?
It seems to me that male and female homosexuality are two different phenomena. We must at least bear the possibility in mind. There is no reason to think otherwise, beyond the fact that we use the same word for both.
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:
I can hardly imagine a man's calling his homosexuality a choice. But some women do say that they chose to be Lesbians. Are we supposed to doubt their word?
It seems to me that male and female homosexuality are two different phenomena. We must at least bear the possibility in mind. There is no reason to think otherwise, beyond the fact that we use the same word for both.
I'm sure a bisexual woman can choose whether to be with a woman or be with a man. I don't think the gender of your current partner equates with 'being a lesbian'.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Fineline
Shipmate
# 12143
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Posted
No, it is true that there are women who say that being lesbian is a choice - they put forward the idea that it is a conscious and positive decision. It's a bit of a feminist thing - about women having power to make conscious choices. Which would lead me to believe that differences between gay men and gay women are a lot to do with cultural views about gender, and reactions to those. It's more shameful for a man to be seen as gay, because it is seen as effeminate, and females are traditionally seen as weaker than men. Whereas for a woman to be lesbian, it can be seen as a power thing - that she is competing with men for power. It's not despised in the same way.
Posts: 2375 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2006
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Fineline
Shipmate
# 12143
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Posted
Although I don't think it's exclusively gay women and no gay men who argue this. It's a whole movement, with its own arguments and philosophies, rather than just a few individuals claiming it was a choice for them personally: http://www.queerbychoice.com/
Posts: 2375 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2006
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Liopleurodon
Mighty sea creature
# 4836
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:
I can hardly imagine a man's calling his homosexuality a choice. But some women do say that they chose to be Lesbians.
Not any of the lesbians I've ever known or dated.
If you're thinking of some of the more hardcore feminist activists who dated women as a political statement, then that seems to me to be the equivalent of forcing yourself into a hetero marriage for religious reasons, and just as misguided.
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Our God is an awesome God. Much better than that ridiculous God that Desert Bluffs has. - Welcome to Night Vale
Posts: 1921 | From: Lurking under the ship | Registered: Aug 2003
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Well, they'll have to explain to me why anyone would deliberately choose to spend their life being hated and despised. I sure as hell wouldn't, and yet, here I am.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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the Pookah
Shipmate
# 9186
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Posted
Actually I've read about sexual fluidity in women, some finding it later in life and I'm not surprised. It's only for the last 2,000 years we've restricted our sexuality.
In the pre-christian classical world men routinely had sex with men & women. Women had sex with men & women. In our current culture f/f sex is considered 'hot' so it's okay & women demonstrate sexual fluidity; if the same attitude were shown to men I'd bet we'd be seeing it.
Posts: 926 | From: the Northern colonies | Registered: Mar 2005
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
There's a difference between sexuality and actual sexual activity.
Sexuality is a spectrum, and in a society where both homosexual sex and heterosexual sex are equally viable options, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if a great many more people fell somewhere on the spectrum such that they were, to a greater or lesser degree, bisexual in practice - having sex with both men and women because their attraction is not solely to one or the other.
But in the society we actually live in, until very, VERY recently, people were pushed into one choice over the ohter.
I have a hard time with anyone claiming to 'choose to be a lesbian'. What they might choose is to be with a woman, having spent their life up to that point being with a man and possibly taking a long time to consider they might have any other choice available.
Lots of gay men chose to spend their lives with a woman because they didn't think they had any choice. But to describe that as 'choosing to be straight' would be an absolute nonsense in my view.
Frankly, the people who usually suggest that I chose to be gay are the ones who think that this was a wrong choice.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Donne, Donne, Donne.
Apprentice
# 16761
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Posted
Orfeo
Wonderfully put.
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'If I might say so, there is something almost blasphemous in this horror of the elements. Are we seriously to suppose that all these clouds, all this immense electrical display, is simply called into existence to extinguish you or me?'
Posts: 22 | From: The Southern Coast. | Registered: Nov 2011
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ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
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Posted
Orfeo, I'm just going to say "God told me to tell you that you need the love of a good woman*" and run!
* this may not necessarily reflect the views of the writer....
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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
orfeo: quote:
Frankly, the people who usually suggest that I chose to be gay are the ones who think that this was a wrong choice.
If you hadn't chosen it, you couldn't be blamed, and blame has to be assessed when sin happens. Q.E.D.
Although, come to think of it, I didn't choose to be born under the cloud of Original Sin either, yet somehow, in some people's eyes, I am to blame because I can't follow through on a choice to be perfect. I have to be saved from the nasty fate arranged for those who could not refrain from sin i.e. just about everybody but the Son and perhaps the Mother.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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the Pookah
Shipmate
# 9186
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Posted
Orfeo; I've met a women who says it was a choice. Maybe she looked at the available men & thought 'I could find a much nicer woman & I'll go for it.' I can't judge her by my experience, as I've always been lesbian, just not out.
Since I'm a buddhist I never get the; 'then choose to be straight'argument so perhaps your pov is in response to that. Really when they tell you that, why not reply 'then you choose to be completely celibate.' That is the Christian ideal & being sexual is a choice! I bet those hypocrites with find a million excuses ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Posts: 926 | From: the Northern colonies | Registered: Mar 2005
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by FooloftheShip:
Orfeo, I'm just going to say "God told me to tell you that you need the love of a good woman*" and run!
* this may not necessarily reflect the views of the writer....
If she didn't want sex and was willing to do a good share of the housework, she WOULD be a good woman!
*runs in the other direction, away from irate feminists*
EDIT: It should be noted, for my purposes, a 'good man' would also involve someone who does the housework. Because I'm appalling at it.
[ 06. December 2011, 08:11: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
...or someone who is at good at organising ME into doing the housework is also acceptable.
Sorry, I've just spent a day discussing my personality and work preferences, so it's on my mind. Highly relevant to explaining why my desire for organisation usually doesn't translate into action to produce it. I should take this discussion to a decent gay dating site, but I'm not sure one exists.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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the Pookah
Shipmate
# 9186
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Posted
Oy the irony of what you've written! We can have gay liberation but it goes hand in hand with male privilege.... ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Posts: 926 | From: the Northern colonies | Registered: Mar 2005
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ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
...or someone who is at good at organising ME into doing the housework is also acceptable.
Sorry, I've just spent a day discussing my personality and work preferences, so it's on my mind. Highly relevant to explaining why my desire for organisation usually doesn't translate into action to produce it. I should take this discussion to a decent gay dating site, but I'm not sure one exists.
When you find one, let me know. There must be a good one out there some where....
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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by the Pookah:
Oy the irony of what you've written! We can have gay liberation but it goes hand in hand with male privilege....
It was supposed to be ironic.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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the Pookah
Shipmate
# 9186
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Posted
Yeah as a woman I feel the irony, It's amazing that men seem unable to organize, hoover the carpets, or do the dishes whilst women gay or straight split the jobs & get them done.
but then again we're not ashamed to do -
women's work
Posts: 926 | From: the Northern colonies | Registered: Mar 2005
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Well actually, there are plenty of men who can do those things. I'm just not one of them.
EDIT: Well actually I do the dishes. Most days, anyway. I'm not eating off dirty crockery or out of cardbox boxes. I also manage to cook most of the time and don't run out of clothes. But maintenance of the cleanliness of the house, as opposed to myself, is not one of my skills.
I don't attribute that to my gender, but you appear to have missed what I thought was reasonable clarification after the initial joke.
[ 09. December 2011, 06:48: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Well actually, there are plenty of men who can do those things. I'm just not one of them.
EDIT: Well actually I do the dishes. Most days, anyway. I'm not eating off dirty crockery or out of cardbox boxes. I also manage to cook most of the time and don't run out of clothes. But maintenance of the cleanliness of the house, as opposed to myself, is not one of my skills.
I don't attribute that to my gender, but you appear to have missed what I thought was reasonable clarification after the initial joke.
the Pookah, I was aiming at a slightly mischievous comment to the effect that the terrible affliction of male homosexuality could magically find its cure at the same time as Orfeo's difficulties with domestic chores. If the out and out sarcasm of this (bearing mind that I have made little secret of my own homosexuality and indeed of the fact that I am indeed male) fails to come across, some adjustment of detectors may be required.
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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Back in the 80s I had a friend who chose to be a lesbian as a political statement, and she said many other women were doing the same. I've never asked her about her experience, but she's been happily partnered with a man for a long time now. Equally, I haven't heard of anyone doing that in recent years. Was it a part of 80s feminism, does anyone know?
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
One of the people higher up than me professionally (so, not someone I wanted to quiz about her personal life) once joked that lots of feminists wanted to sleep with her in the 1980s, as a consciousness-raising thing, and that they seemed to evolve into straight women who championed natural childbirth and ran National Childbirth Trust classes in the 90s.
Certainly "consciousness-raising" was part of 80s feminism, but whether this often involved sex with another woman, I don't know.
(wanders off to browse through old copies of Harpies and Quines, Scotland's version of Spare Rib)
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Aelred of Rievaulx
Shipmate
# 16860
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Posted
I am still musing on the "change is possible", "gay is a choice" nonsense.
I did my damndest to be straight (because I was terrified of being gay) and was married for 30 years. I stayed faithful in that marriage until almost the bitter end, but that is another story.
The reality that confronted me was that I had the capacity to respond sexually to one woman for quite a long time, but that I never had any real sexual interest in women per se.
Men, on the other hand, were what I had trained myself not to look at or admire, and what my fantasy life was full of.
I read that according to Exodus International, change is
quote:
"attaining abstinence from homosexual behaviors, lessening of homosexual temptations, strengthening their sense of masculine or feminine identity, correcting distorted styles of relating with members of the same and opposite gender."[
I had no problem with my gender identity. My relationship with my father was and is good and loving. I was never sexually molested by a man as a child. So that was no problem.
I did the abstinence.
But it was a total failure and nearly led to my killing myself. I only started to feel like myself and healthy when I finally came out - to myself, and then to everyone else.
And lastly - I had a great sense of shame and guilt. Not for being gay, but while I was repressing everything it made me feel bad about being me. It messed up how I thought about myself, and God, and impacted on my relationship with everyone else. The day the shame went was the day I had the honesty to acknowledge that I was gay and that was all there was to say.
I may not be a very good Christian yet, but at least I know that whatever I am, I am really me now.
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In friendship are joined honor and charm, truth and joy, sweetness and good-will, affection and action. And all these take their beginning from Christ, advance through Christ, and are perfected in Christ.
Posts: 136 | From: English Midlands | Registered: Jan 2012
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Aelred of Rievaulx:
And lastly - I had a great sense of shame and guilt. Not for being gay, but while I was repressing everything it made me feel bad about being me. It messed up how I thought about myself, and God, and impacted on my relationship with everyone else. The day the shame went was the day I had the honesty to acknowledge that I was gay and that was all there was to say.
I may not be a very good Christian yet, but at least I know that whatever I am, I am really me now.
Amen.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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crynwrcymraeg
Shipmate
# 13018
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Posted
Three-fold Amen !
(Used to love singing that in the choir as a kid at service end )
[ 10. January 2012, 17:51: Message edited by: crynwrcymraeg ]
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I ignored the admins and now I'm Erin's bitch.
Posts: 522 | From: Ty'n Coed | Registered: Sep 2007
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Taliesin
Shipmate
# 14017
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Posted
I've just had a horrendous evening arguing with my church group, who refuse to acknowledge that - however much they are 'loving the sinner, and not rejecting anyone' that to believe that living in a loving relationship with another person who is of the same gender is intrinsicly sinful, is perhaps, perchance, a bit damaging to the people in a relationship. Because where is their happy outcome?
We move the goalposts ALL THE TIME so why not for this one? Anyway, on here, somewhere, long ago I think I found a link to a website that made me feel better. Can anyone please help me find it again because I might have to jack in the whole church concept if I can't believe again that the real church - the one Jesus founded - isn't overly concerned with who one has a loving relationship with, so long as they are fighting injustice, feeding the hungry, caring for the sick and sick at heart, working for the community and loving the lord their god, being a light in the world and salty and so forth, at the same time.
cheers.
Posts: 2138 | From: South, UK | Registered: Aug 2008
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Latchkey Kid
Shipmate
# 12444
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Posted
I am probably not your best source of information, being a hetero Christian that doesn't care if his friends are LGBT or not: but a couple of links I have found useful for people who are not that easygoing are:
Real Live Preacher's I have no title for this (look also at the link early in the post).
and Rev Janet McCuneed's blog A Time to Embrace , though I think she is now doing more Facebook than blogging.
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'You must never give way for an answer. An answer is always the stretch of road that's behind you. Only a question can point the way forward.'
Mika; in Hello? Is Anybody There?, Jostein Gaardner
Posts: 2592 | From: The wizardest little town in Oz | Registered: Mar 2007
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Taliesin
Shipmate
# 14017
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Posted
Thanks. Good one, that rlp.
Posts: 2138 | From: South, UK | Registered: Aug 2008
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The5thMary
Shipmate
# 12953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
I've just had a horrendous evening arguing with my church group, who refuse to acknowledge that - however much they are 'loving the sinner, and not rejecting anyone' that to believe that living in a loving relationship with another person who is of the same gender is intrinsicly sinful, is perhaps, perchance, a bit damaging to the people in a relationship. Because where is their happy outcome?
We move the goalposts ALL THE TIME so why not for this one? Anyway, on here, somewhere, long ago I think I found a link to a website that made me feel better. Can anyone please help me find it again because I might have to jack in the whole church concept if I can't believe again that the real church - the one Jesus founded - isn't overly concerned with who one has a loving relationship with, so long as they are fighting injustice, feeding the hungry, caring for the sick and sick at heart, working for the community and loving the lord their god, being a light in the world and salty and so forth, at the same time.
cheers.
www.whosoever.org would be a big help to you, I think. The main minister on there is a woman I know named Candace Chellew-Hodge. She is a really cool, knowledgeable woman. Oh, and she's a lesbian. There's a lot of good and helpful reading on this site.
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God gave me my face but She let me pick my nose.
Posts: 3451 | From: Tacoma, WA USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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The5thMary
Shipmate
# 12953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Back in the 80s I had a friend who chose to be a lesbian as a political statement, and she said many other women were doing the same. I've never asked her about her experience, but she's been happily partnered with a man for a long time now. Equally, I haven't heard of anyone doing that in recent years. Was it a part of 80s feminism, does anyone know?
As far as I know, it started, hot and heavy in the 1970's. It was all the rage of writers like Rita Mae Brown, Jill Johnston, Judy Grahn, etc. And what kills me is that these writers made this big deal about how women wouldn't oppress other women or exploit them. Right. Tell that to my three abusive girlfriends, one of whom tried to kill me! It always made me mad that women "chose" to be lesbian for awhile as some sort of political statement about the evils of inequality and then "chose" to be heterosexual. Just admit you're a damn bisexual and shut up, already. I certainly didn't wake up one morning and say to myself, "Gee, today I feel like wearing that green striped shirt, my favorite blue jeans and oh, yeah, I think I'll be a lesbian!".
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God gave me my face but She let me pick my nose.
Posts: 3451 | From: Tacoma, WA USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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