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Source: (consider it) Thread: Why do Gays have to 'come out'?
Garden Hermit
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# 109

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In the UK we've just had a cricketer declare himself to be 'Gay'...the first Cricketer to do it.

Now I'm well aware that people enjoy lots of ways of having sex including..

being whipped, humiliate, doing the forsaid, rolling in custard, being 'peed' on, dressing up as babies etc. etc.

We also all have millions of secrets such as fancying the woman next door, fantasing over killing the boss, drinking too much, beating the wife/husband, fiddling expenses and Income Tax, driving too fast..

I have no inner prompting to tell all and sundry about my faults except maybe a priest whom I don't know...

So what is about 'Gay Inclinations' that make people want to 'come out' ? Is it guilt ? Is it becuase its no longer a crime like other failings ?

Pax et Bonum

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South Coast Kevin
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Isn't this crashingly obvious? Some gay people still feel they'll be abused (verbally, if not physically) if they say they're gay so they don't. They don't join in conversations about partners, previous relationships, which famous people they fancy and so on, meaning that declaring their sexuality becomes a major issue, an event.

I suppose it's the same if one is adopted, except I'm not aware of any prejudice against that so I presume people who are adopted don't have any trouble in saying so at the first appropriate moment. For example, you get into a conversation about how your parents met and the adopted person says, 'Oh, I don't know how my parents met, in fact I don't even know who my parents are.' No big deal. But if you're gay, it is a big deal I suppose.

Wouldn't it be fantastic, though, if gay people all felt free to 'out' themselves at the first appropriate moment instead of feeling they have no choice but to hide their sexuality?

(Wonder if this thread will avoid Dead Horse status...)

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Eliab
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# 9153

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Because "I like to have sex like this" is private behaviour which is no one's business but my own and my partner(s), whereas "this is the person I love and want to spend my life with" defines a key relationship in my life that I ought to be able to make public without giving offence.

Being gay is not just about having an unusual way of fucking. It is about having important relationships of the sort that it would be most unusual for straight people to conceal. The approximate equivalent to "coming out" is not for me to tell you I prefer doggy-style to missionary - the equivalent is for me to tell you I'm married.

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RuthW

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# 13

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First, it's not a failing. [Roll Eyes]

The vast majority of the gay people I've known who have come out have done so out of a desire to be honest with themselves and the world about who they are. Because there are still so many people who just assume everyone is straight, if gay people wish to be deal truthfully with themselves and others, they have to correct this assumption by saying that they are gay.

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Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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quote:
Originally posted by Garden Hermit:
So what is about 'Gay Inclinations' that make people want to 'come out' ? Is it guilt ? Is it becuase its no longer a crime like other failings ?

"Other failings"? Your sexual orientation is a "failing"?

Oh, well be grateful it's decriminalised!

I think it might be the persistance of such attitudes that make gay people feel compelled to assert their sexual identity.

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Beeswax Altar
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# 11644

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Same reason heterosexuals come out.

We should expect no more or less of gay and lesbian couples than we expect of straight couples.

[ 28. February 2011, 17:41: Message edited by: Beeswax Altar ]

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tclune
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quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
We should expect no more or less of gay and lesbian couples than we expect of straight couples.

Seems to me you're setting the bar pretty low there...

--Tom Clune

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Saul the Apostle
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Its also now much more socially acceptable to 'come out' now if one is gay isn't it?

As an orthodox Christian it is clear homosexuality is not God'd first choice for men and women.

Equally, neither is it God's first choice for a heterosexual man who is married to cheat on his wife multiple times (fornication in the old money), so sexual sin is that, it is sexual SIN whether it be gay sex or heterosexual bonking outside marriage. Sin is sin is sin.

You can sugar coat male buggery with the word 'gay' but it isn't what we were designed to do.

Plain and simples.

Saul the Apostle

[ 28. February 2011, 17:55: Message edited by: Saul the Apostle ]

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Garden Hermit
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I still don't get it.....

I have many aspects of my personality which I keep hidden.....I slowly reveal them to people I choose to, and when I think it necessary.

In the past several friends have told me privately that they are gay or have gay fantasies. They didn't tell the local newspaper.

I take it as a great honour they could trust me.

But other people also have trusted me with other aspects of themselves which they would never think of telling the world.

Maybe its more of a question about why people want to tell the world about themselves. I know some Christians who have become Muslims or lost their faith completely. They don't have to make it hugely public.

Its almost like getting something off your chest in the confessional. Its something that eats at you..

Why do we have to get somethings 'off our chests' or 'out in the open'.

Gays say they feel they are living a lie. Well I feel I live a lie in many ways. I keep things hidden for a reason...such as not upsetting some people....particularly about my faith which is very important to me.

Pax et Bonum

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Lyda*Rose

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# 4544

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They come out because they are saying to attitudes like yours, "Talk to the hand!"

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Siegfried
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# 29

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While I attempt to formulate a measured response to Saul the Apostle (fitting name, I'd say), a general response to "Why should or do gay people "come out"?" is because many people still have negative or preconceived notions about what a gay person is like. The only way to change these perceptions and attitudes often is for someone to realize they actually know someone who is gay (or, in the case of a celebrity, know OF someone). In certain professions (sports being one), the treatment of gays or suspected gays is much harsher, which makes it even more important for a sports celeb to reveal their orientation, shattering those preconceptions.

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Siegfried
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tclune
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Siegfried and Saul the Apostle:
If you insist on having this discussion, I will move the thread to DH. Since other people clearly have something to say that is not a DH, why don't you both just go down there, flame to your hearts' content, and leave this thread to those who want to have a Purgatorial discussion.

--Tom Clune, Purgatory Host

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RuthW

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# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by Garden Hermit:
I have many aspects of my personality which I keep hidden...

Is one of them the fact that you're straight?
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leo
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# 1458

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What a stupid question in the OP!

May as well ask: Why do heterosexuals declare their sexuality by wearing wedding rings, talking about what they did with the boy/friends over the weekend as they gather for coffee break at work?

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Knopwood
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# 11596

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quote:
Originally posted by Garden Hermit:
I have no inner prompting to tell all and sundry about my faults

Then you must be quite exceptional. I should think it significantly inconvenient to hide your family. Is the telephone off limits when you are out of the house, lest someone whose presence is not meant to be public knowledge answer it?

Out of curiosity, do you consider the engagement announcements in the papers public declarations about what kind of sex people like to have? When the banns of marriage are read in church, does your mind immediately alight to water sports and bondage?

Do your married relations keep their unions clandestine, or are you acquainted with their spouses? Do you consider this knowledge an imposition of "too much information"? Do you yourself eschew all communication with the outside world (starting this thread answers that) - lest by admitting your existence you tacitly acknowledge that you have parents who yielded to sexual desire to bring about your life (surely they wouldn't appreciate you blatting their "way of having sex" to the Ship by being here as you are)? If so, then you may have a claim to consistency. But in fact, it's virtually impossible that what you're faulting gays for is not something that you yourself consider perfectly normal behaviour for you. So contra your claim to have "no inner prompting" to behave similarly, in fact you can hardly avoid doing so daily - it is only when done by gays that you consider it objectionable after all.

In learning about training autistic people in social skills, one of the topics we covered was "theory of other minds" - the ability to remember that others are not necessarily the same as us. The gay debate seems to incite a curious inverse phenomenon - the assumption that others are unlike us even in the absence of any evidence to that effect. Thus when heterosexuals marry, the answer to the question "Why?" is obvious - "for the hallowing of the union betwixt man and woman; for the procreation of children to be brought up in the fear and nurture of the Lord; and for the mutual society, help, and comfort, that the one ought to have of the other, in both prosperity and adversity."

But for a gay person to express a desire to share in such a blessing with someone with whom s/he can form a household, suspicion is aroused. They must have some ulterior motive - a political statement, validation of their "lifestyle" (and heterosexual marriage is different because...?). The suggestion that the reasons enumerated above are universal and provide the motivation to marriage for all couples who do so is dismissed as somehow coy or smart-alecky. There's something awfully ADD about forgetting what your entire rationale for marriage is as soon as someone turns up you don't want to share it with and said rationale provides you with no grounds to get out of doing so. Then it's funny how quickly the "hallowed institution" suddenly becomes all about penises and vaginas.

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leo
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# 1458

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Well done. LQ! You have just cross-posted with me and said more of less the same thing more eloquently that me.

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Garden Hermit
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I accept that it is still difficult to say to some people 'I'm a Gay'.

So why do people have to say it to the whole world, and risk bad comments ?

This is not anti-gay. I went to an all-boys school and am aware that a not-small percentage engaged in some sort of gay behaviour. It is not a big deal.

The Formula 1 chief liked to be whipped and humiliated by girls in german Uniforms. This is not acceptable sexual behaviour to most people. He did not find it necessary to tell the newspapers and indeed sued them for publishing private details.

I'm trying to get at why people have to go public about certain aspects of their personality.

Pax et Bonum

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Spiffy
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# 5267

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Why is it any time someone says "I'm not anti-gay," the next thing out of their mouth is usually something anti-gay?

quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
They come out because they are saying to attitudes like yours, "Talk to the hand!"

Aaaand off to the Quote File with you!

[ 28. February 2011, 18:35: Message edited by: Spiffy ]

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tclune
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quote:
Originally posted by Garden Hermit:
I'm trying to get at why people have to go public about certain aspects of their personality.

It would be helpful in that endeavor if you read the responses that people post to your query...

--Tom Clune

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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by Garden Hermit:
I accept that it is still difficult to say to some people 'I'm a Gay'.

So why do people have to say it to the whole world, and risk bad comments ?

Because it's hard to hate people you know personally. Back when people rarely knew that they knew anyone gay it was easy to dismiss them as moral degenerates unfit for decent society. One of the biggest factors in changing that attitude is that most people today know someone (often several someones) openly gay and can see that they are not much different from anyone else.

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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I think there's one fairly important detail here which nobody has picked up on. That is that the person in question is a high profile professional sportsman. That environment tends to be very macho and testosterone-dominated (although I guess this is less true of cricket than some other sports). Unfortunately, that kind of environment is one place where homophobia can thrive so I understand why it is more of a big deal to be a sportsman who is gay than many other professions.

The other reason that I suspect* that he wants to make it public is to help shift attitudes in the sporting public and perhaps to be a role model for younger men in a similar position. But that may not be true at all.


* Disclaimer: I really don't know this, I'm just guessing!

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mousethief

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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
Because it's hard to hate people you know personally.

Well said.

Saul, you do realize that anal intercourse (or "buggery" as you so neutrally call it) does not define homosexuality? That many heterosexual couples practice anal sex, and many homosexual male couples do not? Ergo the mechanics of sexual pleasure are completely irrelevant to this conversation.

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Crœsos
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In other words, because enough gays have come out they only "risk bad comments" instead of risking their jobs, a severe beating, electroshock "therapy", state-ordered chemical castration, etc.

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by Garden Hermit:
The Formula 1 chief liked to be whipped and humiliated by girls in german Uniforms.

Telling people you're gay is NOT the same as revealing this level of personal detail. Telling people you're gay is simply saying you're attracted to members of the same sex, which is a very general thing. It doesn't give any details about how you like to have sex or what your particular kinks are.

I think this might all make a lot more sense to you if you could grasp this distinction. What you now know about the cricketer is what you knew about the Formula 1 driver before the revelations about uniform-wearing girls.

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mdijon
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quote:
Originally posted by Garden Hermit:
I keep things hidden for a reason...such as not upsetting some people....

So do gays upset you when they come out?

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Knopwood
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# 11596

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quote:
Originally posted by Garden Hermit:
I accept that it is still difficult to say to some people 'I'm a Gay'.

Does anyone say that? GH, if your acquaintance of gay people is confined to News of the Screws and Little Britain it might be wise to "go into a more silent mode" on the subject for a season.
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mdijon
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"Go in" for a bit rather than "come out", you mean?

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five
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# 14492

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Imaginary Friend hit it on the head. He's a role model, and a very good one to all the kids out there afraid to talk to people in case of reactions like Saul's or Garden Hermit's. Given that (coincidentally) today also had the news that a) The ABofC is going to ensure that no same sex marriages take place in CofE churches, and that b) a "Christian" couple were turned down for fostering care because they couldn't tell gay children, were they given any, that their behaviour was ok, I'm glad someone came forward and said "this is me." Particularly in pro sports, where competitive machoness (how many sex scandals were there in the Premier League last year? Or involving Warnie?) would keep most people so deep in the closet, someone had the strength to stand up for those who do suffer. (Well, and those that don't as well.)

While my mind daydreams with a large grin at the thought of Saul or Garden Hermit walking up to Gareth Thomas and saying the things they've said here, it also knows that many gay people have gone through plenty of pain and anguish and other expectations of other people and ultimately decided to be......happy as God made them.

Yesterday, Ashley Cole, who has exhibited all kinds of un-Christian behaviour towards his now ex-wife while they were married, shot someone. At work. "larking around" in the locker room. He caused someone pain. In a same sex environment, while not wearing a lot of clothes. He's also committed sexual sins, which are well documented. (Shudder.....) And yet I haven't seen a single thread whining and complaining about his behvaviour and how it offends God. This man has come out and said he's gay. He hasn't, at least in any reports I've read, said "I've engaged in any sexual acts with anyone." And of course, much like being straight, you don't have to have sex. You can be gay without ever having a sexual encounter. And indeed, were that to happen, I can't think of an actual denomination that considers that sinful.

Were he to come forward and start giving the sordid details about what he did and with whom, I'd be offended. But I wouldn't be any more offended than hearing the same from a straight man. Those kind of details are just uncouth. But this man stood up and said "yes, this is who I am." The rest of the cricket team, including the coach, seems to have endorsed with the news with a big "so what does this matter?" which is to their credit, and in the pro sports world just as newsworthy. Good for him, and good for them. This sort of thing could literally save kids lives from bullying and suicide.

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HCH
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I can imagine someone announcing he/she is gay simply to avoid unwanted advances from the opposite sex.

By the way, do you assume everyone who says "I am gay" is telling the truth?

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Fineline
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# 12143

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Because being straight is seen as the default. It is often implicitly assumed in conversation. You don't need to explicitly 'come out' as straight, because people generally assume it.

I'm asexual, and I find it can be alienating when other women start talking about guys they fancy or commenting on guys who pass by, and generally talk about the need for a guy, assuming I share these feelings - a sort of female bonding thing. I can join in, pretending to feel the same, or I can be silent, or I can tell them I don't share the feelings, which might be awkward and spoil the general bonhomie of the moment. It's much easier when people know you don't share those feelings. Which involves some kind of 'coming out'.

I imagine it's even more important for gay people, as homosexuality is something that is often judged, and it's important for people to feel they are accepted as they are. It must be an awful feeling to know that your friends may reject you if they knew something about you which is a core part of your identity.

And also, if someone is gay, they may have a partner, and would probably like to refer to their partner in conversation, as straight people are often referring to their partners in conversation, and for the conversation to be equal, it needs to be two-sided. When a straight man refers to his wife, it is not seen as 'coming out', because people just carry on conversation with no surprise, but often when a gay man refers to his partner as 'he', there is a bit of a surprised silence and awkwardness. It's 'coming out' because it's different from the norm.

In terms of public figures coming out, well, the media hones in on people's public lives anyway, and does interviews in which plenty of public figures talk about their partners. When a public figure is gay, they may not talk about their private life, because of fear of judgement, but it makes sense that there will come a point where they decide they don't want to hide it any longer.

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Angel Wrestler
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# 13673

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by Garden Hermit:
I have many aspects of my personality which I keep hidden...

Is one of them the fact that you're straight?
Something that is very closely related is my puzzlement over why someone introduces themselves, the first time we meet, with their sexual orientation.

This happened not long ago at a seminar, where we introduced ourselves briefly. A couple people said the equivalent of "Hi. I'm Mary. I'm bisexual." or "Hi. I'm Bob. I'm gay." I didn't understand the pertinence (at least not in that context).

It's not about what people do in the bedroom, but I confess to being flummoxed by a certain sexual orientation being such a primal part of one's identity that it's a bullet point in an introductory session. I can appreciate that some of the married people said that they were married, and that implies the sexual orientation, but, for example, divorced and widowed people didn't feel compelled to announce their status and/or orientation.

Maybe it's really because I don't care if some people are gay. What I care about is people being mistreated because of it.

As for the adoption issue - some people are still prejudiced, though not to the degree of years past. And it's not even close to being the same type of comparison. If I share that I'm adopted it's because some kind of issue arose where I believe it's appropriate to share that aspect of myself. But I will go months before even thinking about it - it's not like I go around every day saying, "I'm Angel. I'm adopted." [Roll Eyes]

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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267

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quote:
Originally posted by Angel Wrestler:
As for the adoption issue - some people are still prejudiced, though not to the degree of years past. And it's not even close to being the same type of comparison.

Hm, interesting that you say being adopted is not the same comparison as being GLBT, and then go right on to compare announcing you're adopted to coming out as GLBT.

You'd be surprised how often in daily life you run into hetersoexual assumptions. Been at work four hours, and I've had one coworker assume a gentleman I was discussing spending time with was my boyfriend, and another listening to a call with an ex-girlfriend assume we were 'just friends'. Not to mention all the bloody talk about weddings going around this place right now.

[Roll Eyes] No, I don't dream about wearing a white dress and no, probably won't ever be marrying a man in a church (or a park, or Vegas) so I don't need to 'pay attention and take notes' for when it's *my turn*.

(Probably won't be marrying a woman in a church or a park or Vegas, either, but that's a personal issue.)

And don't get me started on the questions about when I'm going to settle down (assumption: with a man) and have babies. I'm the only woman who's not married and/or doesn't have kids, and all the other women talk about are their kids. And when I wander off bored, they usually make comments about "Oh, it'll be different when you have children."

Yeah, really different-- because I'll have slipped through a wormhole into an alternate universe.

[ 28. February 2011, 19:30: Message edited by: Spiffy ]

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Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
I can imagine someone announcing he/she is gay simply to avoid unwanted advances from the opposite sex.

Supposedly [some] women in university announce that they're lesbian to avoid just that -- then magically become hetero again upon graduation. It's called LTG or Lesbian Till Graduation. Given what I saw in my time at university it's hard to blame 'em.


ETA: qualifier

[ 28. February 2011, 19:31: Message edited by: mousethief ]

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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
I can imagine someone announcing he/she is gay simply to avoid unwanted advances from the opposite sex.

Supposedly [some] women in university announce that they're lesbian to avoid just that -- then magically become hetero again upon graduation. It's called LTG or Lesbian Till Graduation. Given what I saw in my time at university it's hard to blame 'em.
Back in my day (early Noughties) it was LUG -- Lesbian Until Graduation. Unfortunately, I married one of them while she was doing grad school, and when I finished paying her way through it, she said being queer was bad for her career and left me.

(Later I found out the $1000 USD her mother gave her to dump me ['moving expenses'] may have played a part, also. This is why I'm for legalizing gay marriage, California is a community property state and I deserved a share of that money!]

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iGeek

Number of the Feast
# 777

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GH, you can't seem to even pose the question without being (inadvertently?) offensive.

You assume I have something to be ashamed about. I don't.
You assume social animus is sufficient incentive against honesty. You assume wrongly.

You aren't aware of the hundreds of things you unconsciously do each day that bleatingly broadcasts your orientation for those who have ears to hear or eyes to see.

You must be aware that positive social change requires active and positive engagement by those who wish to effect that change. By making you aware that we exist, we do our part towards the goal that people who say "bad comments" are considered gauche and the related attitude and expressions socially passé, as they truly are.

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LutheranChik
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# 9826

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I came out because of people like you, Garden Hermit -- people who don't respect me as a fellow human being and as a Christian.

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Angel Wrestler
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# 13673

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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
quote:
Originally posted by Angel Wrestler:
As for the adoption issue - some people are still prejudiced, though not to the degree of years past. And it's not even close to being the same type of comparison.

Hm, interesting that you say being adopted is not the same comparison as being GLBT, and then go right on to compare announcing you're adopted to coming out as GLBT.

You'd be surprised how often in daily life you run into hetersoexual assumptions. Been at work four hours, and I've had one coworker assume a gentleman I was discussing spending time with was my boyfriend, and another listening to a call with an ex-girlfriend assume we were 'just friends'. Not to mention all the bloody talk about weddings going around this place right now.



And don't get me started on the questions about when I'm going to settle down (assumption: with a man) and have babies. I'm the only woman who's not married and/or doesn't have kids, and all the other women talk about are their kids. And when I wander off bored, they usually make comments about "Oh, it'll be different when you have children."

I wasn't clear enough with the description of adoption v sexual orientation. I mean that I don't even think about my status as an adoptee until something provokes a thought - such as this discussion.

As to there being prejudice - the first to bring it up said that s/he supposes there is no longer prejudice against adopted children. There is occasionally prejudice, but it's very little and far between and mostly from folks no one else takes seriously, anyhow. That's not true when it comes to sexual orientation, where there is still a great deal of prejudice against anything other than hetero.

The other points you make - I think I can understand. Allow me to paraphrase to see if I get it: In order to avoid the presumptions of heterosexuals (which I'm certain I've made myself), some would choose to be out with it from the get-go so that it's clear during any ensuing conversations.

eta: oh, I almost forgot - the meddlesome folks you describe would try my nerves, too. [Disappointed]

[ 28. February 2011, 19:42: Message edited by: Angel Wrestler ]

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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130

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quote:
Originally posted by Angel Wrestler:
As for the adoption issue - some people are still prejudiced, though not to the degree of years past. And it's not even close to being the same type of comparison. If I share that I'm adopted it's because some kind of issue arose where I believe it's appropriate to share that aspect of myself. But I will go months before even thinking about it - it's not like I go around every day saying, "I'm Angel. I'm adopted." [Roll Eyes]

Sorry if I've caused offence, Angel Wrestler. I only meant that being adopted is, like being gay, something that people can't instantly see about you. They are both invisible differences from the societal norm (hope this is a non-offensive way of putting it).

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Lyda*Rose

Ship's broken porthole
# 4544

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iGeek:
quote:
GH, you can't seem to even pose the question without being (inadvertently?) offensive.

My reaction exactly when I read the OP: Is he for real? [Disappointed]

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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I hear tell that for many many kids currently in high school, the whole question of sexual orientation is moot. They just don't care. Of course there are others who are still little shits about it. Don't ask me what I think the connection is between such attitudes and parental religious affiliation.

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Crœsos
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# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
iGeek:
quote:
GH, you can't seem to even pose the question without being (inadvertently?) offensive.

My reaction exactly when I read the OP: Is he for real? [Disappointed]
Kind of a homophobic variant of Poe's Law? Is he sincere or is it a parody?

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WearyPilgrim
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# 14593

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My best friend (a deeply committed Christian) came out publicly about four years ago after thirty-five years of marriage. He has two grown sons. When he married, he did so warily; after ten years of it, amidst a terrible emotional and spiritual upheaval, he confessed his homosexual yearnings to his wife. They managed to keep the marriage together for over two more decades, not without difficulty; then they called it quits, at which point he told everyone else. He and she remain great friends; she is very supportive of him. Their two sons are as well. Why did he finally make his announcement? Because, having become honest with himself, he now needed to be honest with the rest of the world. It was a matter of integrity, pure and simple. What's not to understand?
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Adeodatus
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# 4992

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I've a friend, a few years younger than me. When he was 17 - this would have been in the mid-80s - he came out to his mother, because he thought he could trust her and confide in her.

More or less her last words to him, as she threw a heap of his belongings out onto the front lawn, and just before she slammed the door in his face, were, "I wish I'd had a fucking abortion."

This is one reason that a lot of gay public figures come out - so that perhaps with a little more positive publicity, a bit more good role-modelling, people like my friend's bitch of a mother might become a thing of the past.

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WearyPilgrim
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# 14593

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Something else I should add, using Mousethief's comments as a springboard: indeed, the younger generation(s) regard this as a non-issue. I personally am convinced that in another decade to fifteen years, gay marriage will be be legalized in all fifty states. The walls of societal opposition are quickly crumbling, despite evidence to the contrary. Canada nationalized gay marriage several years ago, and while there are still pockets of opposition there, by and large it has ceased to be something of controversy. Maybe Sober Preacher's Kid could lend some thoughts to this. SPK ---?
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by LutheranChik:
I came out because of people like you, Garden Hermit -- people who don't respect me as a fellow human being and as a Christian.

Knowing LC in Real Life was just one of the reasons I could not read the OP w/o impotent (no pun intended) inarticulate sputtering and wild gestuclating. Fortunately, several others have managed to say quite well what I would have hoped to express. I just hope Garden Hermit and Saul will take a break and read them sometime soon.

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joan knox

Knoxy is my homeboy
# 16100

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Hmmm, possibly because it might actually cause folk to think about the type of language they use when in public meetings of the church. Such as throwing around comments like 'they are an abomination unto the Lord', feeling [mistakenly] secure in the knowledge that none of them would or could possibly be in the same room. Perhaps putting human faces on an 'issue' might just possibly stop dehumanising folk who aren't heterosexual, possibly prevent scapegoating, bullying and beating.
Dunno. Just might have sommat to do with that...
I concur with the post earlier: sexual orientation is not a failing. [brick wall]

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Lucia

Looking for light
# 15201

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As far as assumptions go I guess part of why heterosexuality is often assumed is simple statistics. If you take the population as a whole the percentage of homosexuals is smaller than heterosexuals, although I realise that that bipolar division doesn't represent all the shades of orientation in between. But given that we often don't consider the question in detail we default to the more likely option unless evidence presents itself otherwise. So perhaps that is a good reason for coming out if you don't want that assumption to be made about you, as Spiffy well expressed in her post.

The other problem is that there are still plenty of people, I suspect particularly men, who would be offended or upset if someone thought they were homosexual when they are not, perhaps because they feel it calls their masculinity into question or they are homophobic themselves, or have grown up with bullying that took the form of calling them "gay" or "poofter" or whatever to upset them. So I would be cautious of asking someone outright if they were gay even if I suspected it, I would rather they let me know if they want to either directly or indirectly. I look back now and think of conversations I occasionally had with a previous work colleague and cringe a bit because I had no idea he was gay. I only found out later on.

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Angel Wrestler
Ship's Hipster
# 13673

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quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
quote:
Originally posted by Angel Wrestler:
As for the adoption issue - some people are still prejudiced, though not to the degree of years past. And it's not even close to being the same type of comparison. If I share that I'm adopted it's because some kind of issue arose where I believe it's appropriate to share that aspect of myself. But I will go months before even thinking about it - it's not like I go around every day saying, "I'm Angel. I'm adopted." [Roll Eyes]

Sorry if I've caused offence, Angel Wrestler. I only meant that being adopted is, like being gay, something that people can't instantly see about you. They are both invisible differences from the societal norm (hope this is a non-offensive way of putting it).
It's all good. [Smile] I was trying to clear up my point from before, anyhow.

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by Garden Hermit:
In the past several friends have told me privately that they are gay or have gay fantasies. They didn't tell the local newspaper.

But your friends weren't public figures to begin with.

A public figure 'coming out' is no different to the latest news on who a heterosexual public figure is dating. And your friends 'coming out' to you is no different to you hearing about the opposite-sex person a friend is interested in.

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by joan knox:
Perhaps putting human faces on an 'issue' might just possibly stop dehumanising folk who aren't heterosexual, possibly prevent scapegoating, bullying and beating.

[Overused] [Overused] [Overused]

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