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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: The emotional toll
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
As a terrified teenager I was so far in the closet the only person I could reasonably expect to date was Mr Tumnus.
Quotes file.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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joan knox
Knoxy is my homeboy
# 16100
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Posted
Well, I guess 'friend of fauns' does make a change from 'friend of Dorothy'
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Jesus saves, Allah protects, Buddha enlightens, Cthulhu thinks you'll make a nice sandwich
Posts: 906 | From: edinburgh | Registered: Dec 2010
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
As a terrified teenager I was so far in the closet the only person I could reasonably expect to date was Mr Tumnus.
Quotes file.
New thread may be required. Which residents of Narnia were gay? I can certainly see Tumnus. I always wonder about Puddleglum. Notwithstanding the movie, Prince Caspian?
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no_prophet:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
As a terrified teenager I was so far in the closet the only person I could reasonably expect to date was Mr Tumnus.
Quotes file.
New thread may be required. Which residents of Narnia were gay? I can certainly see Tumnus. I always wonder about Puddleglum. Notwithstanding the movie, Prince Caspian?
Well I definitely wouldn't be playing with the Beavers.
(But are there any otters (definition 2) in Narnia? ![[Biased]](wink.gif) )
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Jahlove
Tied to the mast
# 10290
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
it's because I should have been having that really great time something like 15 years ago, in my early 20s. Maybe even as a teenager.
Hi orfeo - my sympathies. Don't take this as a snark because it really, really isn't: I know the pain of crying for the *snows of yesteryear* (or over spilt milk if you prefer). I know what it's like to scream into your pillow at night in incoherent rage against what seems to be a whole world that doesn't understand.
I took me many years (and some good counselling) to get to a position of *this is what I am - if you don't like it, well tough tittie* but along the way, I also learned that resentment is the poison you drink in the hope that someone else will die of it. Good luck, mate.
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“Sing like no one's listening, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody's watching, and live like its heaven on earth.” - Mark Twain
Posts: 6477 | From: Alice's Restaurant (UK Franchise) | Registered: Sep 2005
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Not taken as a snark at all.
The whole "I'm so bloody angry" phase only lasted a day, day-and-a-half this time around. And some of the responses on this thread definitely helped me move on.
Hopefully when I'm a wise old man I'll just go 'Eh'.
But, at the same time, there's something to be said about the idea that the world needs to hear our stories. There are people who will just go 'what's the big deal' or 'why do gays have to come out' if they don't understand the effects of the closet on GLBT life. And they won't understand the effects if they don't hear our stories.
I've certainly heard some stories that make me feel passionately that we need to stop the damage. I've heard the story of a friend of a friend who threw himself off a bridge, and survived. Many of course don't survive. GLBT rates of suicide are higher than normal. GLBT Christians are particularly susceptible. We need to stop losing these people.
Occasionally I run a scenario through my head where, on a particular Sunday, all the GLBT people in the churches stand up. Just stand up. And everyone realises how common we are. And then people have to deal with us instead of trying to sweep it all under the carpet. And then people realise that when they say something negative about GLBT people, they're not saying it about some abstract person, they're saying it about the person in the next pew, the music leader, the girl who runs youth group, the guy who volunteers for all the maintenance of the church grounds and the parish treasurer.
I know we're not rare because I keep meeting people from my past. From a large youth group of around 50 people in my teenage years, I've become re-acquainted with 2 girls who are now fully out as lesbians. That's just the people I know about.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
From a large youth group of around 50 people in my teenage years, I've become re-acquainted with 2 girls who are now fully out as lesbians. That's just the people I know about.
Not to belittle your experience but this reminds me of a story, perhaps apocryphal, about an Orthodox woman who comes out as a Lesbian to her church. Later one of the yiayias draws her aside and says conspiratorially, "But sweetheart, couldn't you have found a good Greek girl to settle down with?"
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
LOL.
For clarification, the 2 girls aren't with each other. In fact, in geographical terms they moved in opposite directions, one north and one south.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Occasionally I run a scenario through my head where, on a particular Sunday, all the GLBT people in the churches stand up. Just stand up. And everyone realises how common we are...
I've often pictured a scenario of the Episcopal House of Bishops (U.S.A.) or, better yet, the Lambeth Conference, re-enacting the graduation scene from "In & Out," where every person in the (mostly, or all, straight) audience stands up one by one and proclaims that he/she is gay.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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teddybear
Shipmate
# 7842
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Not to belittle your experience but this reminds me of a story, perhaps apocryphal, about an Orthodox woman who comes out as a Lesbian to her church. Later one of the yiayias draws her aside and says conspiratorially, "But sweetheart, couldn't you have found a good Greek girl to settle down with?" [/QUOTE]
This reminds me of a story about a sweet Ukrainian baba who was a very dear friend of mine. Her son and daughter-in-law brought her to my place for dinner and we were joined by a very effeminate neighbor/friend of mine. Her son told me later that on the way home she asked if the neighbor was my "girlfriend"? Then went on to add right away, if so that was ok, cause we were good Catholic boys. It was also after that that she stopped trying to fix me up with Ukrainian women twice my age.
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My cooking blog: http://inthekitchenwithdon.blogspot.com/
Posts: 480 | From: Topeka, Kansas USA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Occasionally I run a scenario through my head where, on a particular Sunday, all the GLBT people in the churches stand up. Just stand up. And everyone realises how common we are...
Several decades back at the beginning of the gay rights movement in San Francisco there was an initiative to get homosexuals to write "GAY DOLLAR" on any paper money used for cash purchases. I understand that the amount of currency that eventually bore this label did a lot to change the opinions (or at least the behavior) of a lot of local merchants.
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
I've often pictured a scenario of the Episcopal House of Bishops (U.S.A.) or, better yet, the Lambeth Conference, re-enacting the graduation scene from "In & Out," where every person in the (mostly, or all, straight) audience stands up one by one and proclaims that he/she is gay.
I AM SPARTACUS!
No wait, that one didn't end quite as happily.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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joan knox
Knoxy is my homeboy
# 16100
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Occasionally I run a scenario through my head where, on a particular Sunday, all the GLBT people in the churches stand up. Just stand up. And everyone realises how common we are.
I've run a similar scenario in my head, except my variation is that on one particular Sunday, at one particular moment, all the LGBT peeps will stand up, and as they do, turn a glorious shade of pink...
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Jesus saves, Allah protects, Buddha enlightens, Cthulhu thinks you'll make a nice sandwich
Posts: 906 | From: edinburgh | Registered: Dec 2010
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iGeek
Number of the Feast
# 777
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Hopefully when I'm a wise old man I'll just go 'Eh'.
Or a tired old man who simply can't be bothered to work up the gumption to be offended by brainless idiots, anymore.
As I keep telling my husband with respect to his annoyances with his ex-wife:
"The best revenge is to live well."
Posts: 2150 | From: West End, Gulfopolis | Registered: Aug 2002
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amber.
Ship's Aspiedestra
# 11142
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
From a large youth group of around 50 people in my teenage years, I've become re-acquainted with 2 girls who are now fully out as lesbians. That's just the people I know about.
Not to belittle your experience but this reminds me of a story, perhaps apocryphal, about an Orthodox woman who comes out as a Lesbian to her church. Later one of the yiayias draws her aside and says conspiratorially, "But sweetheart, couldn't you have found a good Greek girl to settle down with?"
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) Wonderful!
Posts: 5102 | From: Central South of England | Registered: Mar 2006
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by joan knox:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Occasionally I run a scenario through my head where, on a particular Sunday, all the GLBT people in the churches stand up. Just stand up. And everyone realises how common we are.
I've run a similar scenario in my head, except my variation is that on one particular Sunday, at one particular moment, all the LGBT peeps will stand up, and as they do, turn a glorious shade of pink...
Four years ago, at the Anglican Church I attend, I was elected to vestry (parish council). I proposed a motion to vestry which was "to study" being an "affirming parish" and "when allowed by the House of Bishops to be able to perform same-sex blessings".
The vestry was prepared to pass the first part, "to study". So we studied. The next year, we revisited the motion. The vestry then discussed again and we had further discussions.
At the church annual general meeting, vestry then put a motion to the parish that that "we recognized diversity within the parish, and that Christ's love is for all" and that "we affirm our intention to welcome our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters in Christ", with the specific direction to vestry to write to the bishop of of wish to perform same sex blessings, to support the ordination of people called to ministry without regard to sexuality. We did all of this, and we had a specific series of eucharists where we honoured and focussed on diversity.
We have since written the national church of our stand. We have sponsored a motion that has passed by a narrow vote, albeit watered down at the last diocesan synod.
So, getting to my point, in some places, this is well along the way.
The outcome for the parish? One family left. The other outcomes? We have a balanced budget and have become a destination church in the area. And we talk a lot less about sex, and a lot more about how about what church should be about: knowing Christ and making his message known.
And in the interests of full disclosure, if my children had not pushed me into it, I would not have done it. Additionally, I had no concept or knowledge of anything gay or lesbian until I was 25. Just never occurred to me.
[ 19. March 2011, 18:51: Message edited by: no_prophet ]
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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iGeek
Number of the Feast
# 777
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no_prophet:
And in the interests of full disclosure, if my children had not pushed me into it, I would not have done it.
Curious -- what was the motivation of your children to push the issue, if you don't mind sharing?
Posts: 2150 | From: West End, Gulfopolis | Registered: Aug 2002
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
We were talking about human rights. They were in university at the time. They said it was hypocritical for Christianity to promote love as its main guiding principle if it refused to recognize love whereever and however it exists. A little talk of whom Christ might be hanging with if he showed up today etc. An evening worth of talk. I also reported that my family was behind me on the decision when it went to the first meetings, which was important, because I don't like in person confrontation very much, though I seem to like it more in writing. I'm pretty much to the point on this that I wonder if it might be God's hand in the me getting elected and then pursuing this through.
Additional backgrounder: We had come to know several couples, two mainly, which provided additional motivation. Both couples are among the finest people I know. One gay, one lesbian (and I hesitate to even type it that way. I just don't think that way anymore: they are couples, if you get my meaning). How can I be friends with people I won't stand up for? And they are coming to this church now.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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iGeek
Number of the Feast
# 777
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no_prophet:
They said it was hypocritical for Christianity to promote love as its main guiding principle if it refused to recognize love whereever and however it exists.
So true. So obvious (to me). Glad they raised the point.
quote:
Originally posted by no_prophet:
Additional backgrounder: We had come to know several couples, two mainly, which provided additional motivation. Both couples are among the finest people I know. One gay, one lesbian (and I hesitate to even type it that way. I just don't think that way anymore: they are couples, if you get my meaning).
Absolutely. You've moved beyond the abstractions and labels and come to know them as people. That matters a lot.
Thanks for sharing that.
Posts: 2150 | From: West End, Gulfopolis | Registered: Aug 2002
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no_prophet:
Additional backgrounder: We had come to know several couples, two mainly, which provided additional motivation. Both couples are among the finest people I know. One gay, one lesbian (and I hesitate to even type it that way. I just don't think that way anymore: they are couples, if you get my meaning). How can I be friends with people I won't stand up for? And they are coming to this church now.
That's exactly right, and the answer to much of what appeared on the coming out and gay marriage threads. Our sermon yesterday was on the same point: it was along the lines that we cannot reject Muslims, nor reject Muslim women who wish to wear the burqa; we cannot exclude women from the priesthood; and we cannot exclude GLBT from marriage or the general community.
In each case, these are people of the community without our having to "accept" them. They already belong. A variety of the phenomenonogical vs nominalism schools if you like.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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