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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Crappy Choruses & Horrible Hymns redux
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
I've got a great Wellspring recording of that song. Full paso doble guitars and trumpets, the whole bit. Love it, but I'd never try to sing it in my church!
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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Melchizedek the Confused
Apprentice
# 5815
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Posted
Hello folks
My first posting and it will show
I have rather skimmed through these generally excellent threads so apologies if this is not wholly "right there"
In my experience most attempts to "include children in worhsip" through things like action songs reflect some or all of the following:
adults who insist on action songs (even beyond the point of purpose never mind dignity) because of some lamentable trendy gene or mid life crisis
Inability to empathise enough with the spirituality of children to be complicated with them on their terms
cruelty
more cruelty
musical incompetence
Tourettes
However cliched it may be every hymn book anyhone has ever shown is riddled with bad hymns. (Incidentally am I the only one who is riled by the use of "song" nowadays - like "talk" instead of sermon. Just because too many people nowadays cant preach does not stop it being a sermon) There are just far more bad hymns than good. The one thing to be said for modern hymns is that they are at least even at their worst they contemporaneously and comprehensibly bad. And ususally mercifully short. In Victorian Britain a fair number of babies cannot have survived the hymns sung at their baptism!
One final thought Steve Guttenberg once said that you needed films like Police Academy alongside Psycho for the same reason you sometimes needed sweets as well as steak. Roll on my strawberry cream flavoured "My God is So Great So big and so mighty!"
Hwyl fawr i bawb
Posts: 3 | From: Caerdydd | Registered: Apr 2004
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Miffy
Ship's elephant
# 1438
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
I've got a great Wellspring recording of that song. Full paso doble guitars and trumpets, the whole bit. Love it, but I'd never try to sing it in my church!
Me too. Brilliant, isn't it?!
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"I don't feel like smiling." "You're English dear; fake it!" (Colin Firth "Easy Virtue")
Growing Greenpatches
Posts: 4739 | From: The Kitchen | Registered: Oct 2001
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cygnus:
A while back I was at a service with my teenage daughter, and during the dreadful "Isn't He?" ie
Isn't he beautiful? (beautiful?), \Isn't he wonderful? (wonderful?).... Wonderful (isn't he?) etc. ad nauseam
she turned to me and whispered "That's exactly how we talk to the dog!"
ROFLMAO at this one. Thank goodness no-one's tried to make a worship chorus out of the way *I* talk to the dog.
It would go something like:
Frig you, frig you, frig you,
Leave me alone,
Let go of my leg,
Frig, frig you bloody little frigger.
Down, down, drop that
Let go of my leg.
Frig you, frig you, frig you,
Whose idea was it to bring you in the house?
I think it's got enough repetition to work as a praise-and-worship chorus. It could be specifically designed to be sung by people under conviction by the Holy Spirit, who are wishing the Hound of Heaven would go where He came from.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Only 2 GK songs this Sunday evening.
There must be some sort of decay function I can calculate to see when the run will stop.
Unless it is oscillating of course.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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phudfan
Shipmate
# 4740
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Posted
Ken, I think you've stumbled onto a phenomenon known as 'Kendrick Dating'. It's a bit like Carbon dating. You can use it to find out the date that a particular church bought a job lot of mission praise books. It can also be useful in ascertaining when a church first used an overhead projector.
For those of you familiar with 'Carbon dating', 'Kendrick dating' works in a very similar way. You simply measure the number of Kendrick songs that are sung in each service over a certain period. You then match this measurement to the Kendrick Half-life graph. To give you a rough guide - a couple of Kendrick songs in a six-month period is typical of a church that bought Mission Praise over twenty five years ago and now only use it on very rare occasions (ie, when there's a power cut on a sunday morning so neither the video projector OR overhead projector can be used).
If you are encountering several Kendrick songs each week that means one of two things. 1) A church that has only just discovered the joys of the guitar and an OHP or 2) somebody at the church responsible for choosing songs/hymns has been recontaminated, possibly through a dodgy CD or even a visit to a highly Kendrick-active site. I hear that Skegness and Minehead are still places that are best avoided if you do not want to put yourself at risk.
Obviously, some churches seem to have avoided being exposed to any Kendrick-activity at all. These churches are often dismissive of the advantages that Kendrick can bring - but also don't run the risk of experiencing any of the more bizarre side-effects, which include the use of rainbow coloured guitar straps and the inability to finish a song without including a key change AND a false ending/accapella chorus.
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"It's funny how, things work out, when you're lonely and your life is full of doubt"
Posts: 365 | From: Lancashire | Registered: Jul 2003
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Now I understand!
In this case the Mission Praise purchasing was sometime in the late 1980s.
But we got a big lot of Songs of Fluffiness only 2 months ago.
Maybe the hymn-choosing-person was looking through the book to see what was there and was reminded of all the GK songs she used to sing back in the days when MP was new.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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phudfan
Shipmate
# 4740
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Posted
Originally posted by Ken:
quote:
Maybe the hymn-choosing-person was looking through the book to see what was there and was reminded of all the GK songs she used to sing back in the days when MP was new.
This sounds like a potential source of contamination - especially if the person in question did not take the necessary precautions before opening the 'Songs of Fluffiness' book - ie: protective clothing and an iodine tablet.
Once a person has been contaminated in this way, they then become a risk to others. The risk can be minimised by a form of quarantine - confiscate all guitar strings and keyboard power leads. The 'victim' will happily continue 'playing' their instrument unaware that they are no longer a danger to society at large.
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"It's funny how, things work out, when you're lonely and your life is full of doubt"
Posts: 365 | From: Lancashire | Registered: Jul 2003
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
The only guitar-stringer in our church is me.
The GK songs are perpetrated with organ and piano.
[Duplicate post deleted]
[ 28. April 2004, 07:55: Message edited by: TonyK ]
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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phudfan
Shipmate
# 4740
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Posted
Ah......that makes things a little trickier. Organists and pianists are generally more resistant to contamination and hence, once contaminated, are harder to quarantine.
The only course of action left to you is to build a 'shelter' for the rest of the congregation. All you need is a set of speakers and a CD with all the Kendrick songs on it (this must be handled with extreme care in order to minimize the risk of further contamination of either yourself or close family members). You then need to find a way of playing the CD so the 'songs' can be played backwards. Once this is achieved, anytime a Kendrick song is played by the contaminated individual, you play the exact same song through the speakers, only backwards. The two sound waves should completely cancel each other out - leaving silence and the opportunity for you to play something 'safe' on the guitar.
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"It's funny how, things work out, when you're lonely and your life is full of doubt"
Posts: 365 | From: Lancashire | Registered: Jul 2003
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Organists, as usually talented and sensitive musicians, generally hate GK. The trick is to let them realise there are folk in the congregation who hate them as well. The revolt will follow as sure as night follows day.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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David
Complete Bastard
# 3
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Organists, as usually talented and sensitive musicians, generally hate GK.
That's because they aren't up to playing it.
Posts: 3815 | From: Redneck Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2001
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HenryT
Canadian Anglican
# 3722
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by David:
That's because they aren't up to playing it.
Has anyone noticed that much of the sheet music published today seems to be created as a staight print from a MIDI system? So every tiny difference in what's really a repeat gets notated with dotted eighth notes and the like. It's tedious when what's really a verse and chorus structure is eight or ten pages of notation, exercising obscure note length variants everywhere.
I suspect this is because some modern composers do not in fact write music notation (and it's not essential that they should.) And that music editors (people, not software) are few, far between, and highly-paid.
There are exceptions - Ruth Fazal is classically trained, and her notation is usually two facing pages - ideal!
How does that related to the quote - some of the music isn't up to being played, having been published half-baked.
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"Perhaps an invincible attachment to the dearest rights of man may, in these refined, enlightened days, be deemed old-fashioned" P. Henry, 1788
Posts: 7231 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 2002
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David
Complete Bastard
# 3
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Posted
All of the Kendrick stuff I've seen - admittedly not all of it, and only with a passing interest - has been well-published.
That is not the problem, although it's related.
Posts: 3815 | From: Redneck Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
And the musicians are playing it out of the hymn books (as noted above either MP or SoF) which usually have just once through verse & chorus quite simply laid out.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
I think Norman needs this thread.
P
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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A Jay UK
Apprentice
# 5756
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Posted
quote:
Organists, as usually talented and sensitive musicians, generally hate GK
I like GK! I think the key to incorporating modern material is to a)find the right moment in the service, some make useful 'gathering songs' some of the quieter, more reflective choruses work well during communion and b) Re-harmonisation of some of the simpler material can help, sometimes I arrange them into SATB or barbershop type.
Incorporating choruses and songs into your worship can be painless. To me it is a question of balance between traditional and modern music. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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To be human is to think we are better than animals. But Kitties rule over humans and have done so since the world began.
Posts: 48 | From: UK | Registered: Apr 2004
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Joykins
Shipmate
# 5820
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Posted
In youth group, we sang a bunch of appalling songs, including "Jesus is the Rock and He Rolls My Blues Away (bop shoo bop shoo bop whee!)" and that song "I Wish We'd All Been Ready" that ends "The Fathers spoke, the demons dined, the Son has come and you've been left behind."
However, the really disturbing one, a grammatical abomination in deerskin, is "As the Deer." The song itself isn't too bad in theory--it's from Psalm 42 and the tune isn't too terribly repetitive or boring. But something awful to it happened, presumably in translation or transcription. It's schizophrenic--as if someone thought it'd be more respectful to God if it sounded all King-James-ish without actually knowing anything at all about the language or how to sustain it:
quote:
As the deer panteth for the water
So my soul longeth after Thee
So far so good...
quote:
You alone are my heart's desire
And I long to worship Thee
Note the switch to You in the 3rd line, and in the 4th line, BAM! back to "Thee"
Apparently this songwriter (or transcriber: I have found online a grammatically coherent version of this song, but I've NEVER HEARD IT SUNG with grammatically coherent lyrics!) thinks that the 2nd person is formal in the nominative and informal in the accusative.
quote:
You alone are my strength, my shield
To You alone may my spirit yield
You alone are my heart's desire
And I long to worship Thee
From Thee to You and back to Thee again. My head is spinning just trying to think about it, and no doubt King David is rotating in his grave at high speed.
Don't believe people could bear to sing this without cringing? Here are these shudder-provoking lyrics at a website meant for praise and worship music leaders: http://www.kennycarter.net/Lyrics/as_the_deer.html
Joy
Posts: 350 | From: Maryland, USA | Registered: Apr 2004
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HenryT
Canadian Anglican
# 3722
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Joykins:
I have found online a grammatically coherent version of this song, but I've NEVER HEARD IT SUNG with grammatically coherent lyrics!
We use the grammatically coherent version. My wife, who's the contemporary worship leader, is also a technical writer with a Classics background - she couldn't stand that mishmash, either.
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"Perhaps an invincible attachment to the dearest rights of man may, in these refined, enlightened days, be deemed old-fashioned" P. Henry, 1788
Posts: 7231 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 2002
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Talitha
Shipmate
# 5085
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Posted
I'm glad to say I've only seen the grammatically coherent one. And that's bad enough. I hope I never encounter the other one.
Within the last week or so there have been two occasions when I've had to sing hideously corrupted versions of otherwise excellent hymns.
The first one was "Praise, my soul, the King of Heaven." They changed the bit that goes "Praise him, praise him" to "Alleluia, alleluia." Which is fair enough, apart from in one verse, where the imperative "Praise him" actually forms part of a sentence.
Alleluia, alleluia, widely as his mercy flows. Huh?!
The second involved the excellent "Praise to the Lord, the Almighty, the King of Creation." There is a verse which goes
Hast thou not seen
All that is needful hath been
Granted by what he ordaineth?
The penultimate line was replaced with some bastardisation along the lines of "All thy heart's wishes have been..."
This from a really very mainstream worship book.
What kind of outrageous false vending-machine prosperity theology spawned that?! No, I most emphatically have not seen all my heart's wishes blah blah etc, and no Christianity worthy of the name would claim that I ought to have done.
People are going to sing that line and think "Nope ... I guess the whole thing must be a fairy story then." ![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
Posts: 554 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Oct 2003
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Papio
Ship's baboon
# 4201
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Posted
Can I take this opportunity to remind the clergy/"worship leader's" that "hymns" which go:
quote:
And the trees of the field shall clap their hands, and the tree's of the field shall clap their hands and the tree's of the of the fields shall clap thier hands and we'll go out with joy And the trees of the field shall clap their hands, and the tree's of the field shall clap their hands and the tree's of the of the fields shall clap thier hands and we'll go out with joy And the trees of the field shall clap their hands, and the tree's of the field shall clap their hands and the tree's of the of the fields shall clap thier hands and we'll go out with joy And the trees of the field shall clap their hands, and the tree's of the field shall clap their hands and the tree's of the of the fields shall clap thier hands and we'll go out with joy
are in general, quite crap?
Also, did we really need to sing it so many times?
It's even worse then:
quote:
We'll just stand there with our hands to the sky and when the world wonder's why, we'll just tell them we're praising the king. Ye-ee-es, we'll just tell them we're praising the king. O-oo-o, we'll just tell them we're praising the king
And ok, we haven't sung the last if these yet, but the dreadful memories of it from my eva days haunt me still..................
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Infinite Penguins.
My "Readit, Swapit" page
My "LibraryThing" page
Posts: 12176 | From: a zoo in England. | Registered: Mar 2003
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Talitha:
The second involved the excellent "Praise to the Lord, the Almighty, the King of Creation." There is a verse which goes
Hast thou not seen
All that is needful hath been
Granted by what he ordaineth?
The penultimate line was replaced with some bastardisation along the lines of "All thy heart's wishes have been..."
This from a really very mainstream worship book.
What kind of outrageous false vending-machine prosperity theology spawned that?! No, I most emphatically have not seen all my heart's wishes blah blah etc, and no Christianity worthy of the name would claim that I ought to have done.
People are going to sing that line and think "Nope ... I guess the whole thing must be a fairy story then."
Interestingly, the only version of this hymn I have ever sung goes "Hast thou not seen, how thy desires ere have been..." which thematically seems to be closer to "all thy heart's wishes" than the original version you posted. I, too, would rather think God is only going to grant what's needful and not everything I want (how appalling that would be), but the psalm does say "delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart." How is one meant to read that?
And now I'm wondering which really are the original lyrics to "Praise to the Lord, the Almighty, the King of Creation."
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Gracious rebel
Rainbow warrior
# 3523
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Posted
Original lyrics eh? That reminds me. I go to a church that suffers the use of Praise! hymnbook. The trouble with this (otherwise excellent) book is that they have felt the need to 'modernise' all the words of the old hymns. (Ironically enough, there are a couple in there that still contain 'Thee' and 'Thou' etc - these are relatively modern ones, such as 'How great thou art' where they couldn't get permission from the living copyright holder!)
The worst effect is when it affects the first line. Twice recently we have sung the hymn which Carys uses in her sig, which should of course be:
quote:
Thine be the glory, risen conquering Son
In Praise! - you really don't want to know this, but I'll tell you anyway:
quote:
Glory to Jesus! Risen conquering Son
Words are fine in themselves, but it doesn't sound as if its the same hymn. And that really annoys me ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
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Fancy a break beside the sea in Suffolk? Visit my website
Posts: 4413 | From: Suffolk UK | Registered: Nov 2002
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Oriel
Shipmate
# 748
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Posted
Talking of "Praise to the Lord, the Almighty, the King of Creation", I'm convinced that there are two more verses to it than are in our hymn book. Everyone else, including my husband, thinks I'm making it up. One of them contains lines that go something like:
"Then to thy need
He like a mother doth speed
Spreading the wings of grace o'er thee"
and the other verse goes something along the lines of:
"Praise to the Lord, who when darkness of sin is abounding
(Something something something something) ... all goodness confounding
Sheddeth his light
Chaseth the shadows of night
Saints with his mercy surrounding"
Please tell me I'm not hallucinating!
(ObTopic: I love this hymn, but it's usually sung far too slowly, and drags horribly.)
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Unlike the link previously in my sig, I actually update my Livejournal from time to time.
Posts: 796 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jul 2001
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sharkshooter
Not your average shark
# 1589
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oriel:
Please tell me I'm not hallucinating!
Although your memory is not quite 100%, you are not hallucinating:
Praise to the Lord.
I found this verse there:
quote:
Praise to the Lord, who, when darkness of sin is abounding,
who, when the godless do triumph, all virtue confounding,
sheddeth his light,
chaseth the horrors of night,
saints with his mercy surrounding
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Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. [Psalm 19:14]
Posts: 7772 | From: Canada; Washington DC; Phoenix; it's complicated | Registered: Oct 2001
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
I seem to recall that the hymnbook which really went to town on 'modernising' the words was 'Hymns for Today's Church' some time in the early 80s (?). The compilers seemed to me to be rather like the chap riding on the back of a tiger (i.e. how to get off safely....) - having more or less successfully 'modernised' one or two hymns, they were then forced willy-nilly to do the same to everything in sight, with the dire results we all know. Deo gratias that many churches have gone back to the trad words for trad hymns!
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Dee.
Ship's Theological Acrobat
# 5681
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Posted
Hookay,
I am Gasping for air as I have nearly laughed myself silly over these postings...now to my lest favorite chorus. I used to go to an AoG church where the Pastor was a singer/songwriter. Unfortunately I was a kid at the time and so I had no choice about which church I attended and I hated his music. Everyone else used to think he was great "oh his worship is soooo anointed ![[Projectile]](graemlins/puke2.gif) " anyway here is the song that we always sang as the offering was taken up.
"Give, to God, and it shall be given,
Bring the Tithes and Offerings to him
Give to God, All that is due him
Worship, and give back to God"
It was sung in a slow, dreamilke (read anointed) way and I always squirmed and felt like it was emotional manipulation. Course the church was pretty prosperity doctrine focused so there you have it.
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Jesus - nice bloke, bit religious
Posts: 2679 | From: Under Downunder | Registered: Mar 2004
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
It's a long time since I have sung 'All hail the power of Jesus' Name' but we sang it on Sunday, and I was reminded of how 17th and 18th century hymn-writers were understandably obsessed with death and icky stuff. I suppose the sanitised, all-is-sweetness-and-light 20th century twee-stuff was written as a reaction to that viewpoint.
'Sinners, whose love can ne'er forget
the wormwood and the gall.....'
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Talitha
Shipmate
# 5085
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oriel:
"Then to thy need
He like a mother doth speed
Spreading the wings of grace o'er thee"
Yes, I like those verses as well - though I can never sing them with a straight face now, since the person next to me turned and whispered "but my mother doesn't do speed..."
Posts: 554 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Oct 2003
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Oriel
Shipmate
# 748
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Posted
Found on here a version of Praise to the Lord with both verses, plus another one I didn't know:
Praise to the Lord, who when tempests their warfare are waging,
Who, when the elements madly around thee are raging,
Biddeth them cease,
Turneth their fury to peace,
Whirlwinds and waters assuaging.
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Unlike the link previously in my sig, I actually update my Livejournal from time to time.
Posts: 796 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jul 2001
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HenryT
Canadian Anglican
# 3722
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Papio.:
[QB] Can I take this opportunity to remind the clergy/"worship leader's" that "hymns" which go:
[QUOTE] And the trees of the field shall clap their hands, ...
are in general, quite crap?
Isaiah 55:12
You will go out in joy and be led forth in peace; the mountains and hills will burst into song before you, and all the trees of the field will clap their hands.
(NIV, courtesy BibleGateway.com)
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"Perhaps an invincible attachment to the dearest rights of man may, in these refined, enlightened days, be deemed old-fashioned" P. Henry, 1788
Posts: 7231 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 2002
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TomM
Shipmate
# 4618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Henry Troup:
quote:
Originally posted by Papio.:
[QB] Can I take this opportunity to remind the clergy/"worship leader's" that "hymns" which go:
[QUOTE] And the trees of the field shall clap their hands, ...
are in general, quite crap?
Isaiah 55:12
You will go out in joy and be led forth in peace; the mountains and hills will burst into song before you, and all the trees of the field will clap their hands.
(NIV, courtesy BibleGateway.com)
Well at our church we had someone complain to the minister about that song until he told whoever it was that it came from Isiah, at which point it became a favourite of theirs!!!
Tom
Posts: 405 | Registered: Jun 2003
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
There's no indication that Isaiah intended that line to be repeated several times, then the whole thing to be sung again, and again, faster and faster until the speed exceeds the competence of the guitarist +30%.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Cod
Shipmate
# 2643
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Posted
Does anyone have any really awful examples of rewritten hymns?
A church I was until recently a member of had a special person appointed for this task. Urrgh. The purpose was to make the words more inclusive, ie, more feminine imagery etc or failing that 'gender neutrality'. So, the rousing hymn:
quote:
Tell out my soul, the greatness of the Lord
became:
quote:
Tell out my soul the greatness that I've heard.
Her aims were thoroughly laudable, but she was no poet to say the least.
Posts: 4229 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Apr 2002
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dyfrig
Blue Scarfed Menace
# 15
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Posted
WHAT?
There's genuine inclusivity and then there's missing the point.
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"He was wrong in the long run, but then, who isn't?" - Tony Judt
Posts: 6917 | From: pob dydd Iau, am hanner dydd | Registered: Apr 2001
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John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
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Posted
Small tangent:
Does anyone have the words to "This is just another Graham Kendrick song" to hand? I'm sure I first ran across them on one of this thread's predecessors. We're doing the original Sunday coming, and I would like to delight the musicians with the parody as well.
You may now return to your original programming.
End tangent.
John
Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001
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sharkshooter
Not your average shark
# 1589
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Posted
Here it is.
The first verse goes:
quote:
This is just another Graham Kendrick song
This is just another Graham Kendrick song
We sing the first line twice and then we sing it again
This is just another Graham Kendrick song
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Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. [Psalm 19:14]
Posts: 7772 | From: Canada; Washington DC; Phoenix; it's complicated | Registered: Oct 2001
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John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
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Posted
My, that was fast. Thanks SS.
John
Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001
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Insomniac
Shipmate
# 4121
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Posted
There's also a verse that goes something like:
Make sure that you miss out an im-(clap)-portant beat.
My church for some reason 'updated' silent night so that it no longer scans and contains some very dodgy grammar. The official first verse is now
'Still the night, holy the night
Sleeps the world, hid from sight
Mary and Joseph in stable bare, watch over the child beloved and fair...
I'm not sure how it goes after that because I refuse to sing the new version. But it is interesting to listen to how many musicians try to make the last line fit the tune and end up singing 'mare-yan-jose-fin' versus giving up completely and putting all the extra notes in, so completely destroying the peaceful flow of the carol.
Posts: 70 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Robin
Shipmate
# 71
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Posted
That version of Silent Night is not particularly new; it appears in the Revised Church Hymnary and even the Public School Hymn Book (among others). It fits the tune perfectly well if you split the odd note in the obvious way (you need to turn a minim into a dotted crotchet optionally tied to a quaver, depending on the verse). I would say the only glitch in your version is that "over" should read "o'er".
Robin
[ 13. May 2004, 08:48: Message edited by: Robin ]
Posts: 263 | From: Aberdeen | Registered: May 2001
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Insomniac
Shipmate
# 4121
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Posted
Well, yes, if you change the rhythm and cram in a lot of extra notes you can squeeze all the words in - but it still ruins the peaceful flow of the carol.
Our version does have 'over', because of the stupid attempt to update all language that people no longer use in everyday conversation. I'm sure whoever decided on the updating (not just of Silent Night but it is the worst of the updates) was not a musician.
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Robin
Shipmate
# 71
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Posted
Ouch -- apologies for the above. I was interrupted in mid-post, and have only just realised that I actually hit the button. Maybe some kind host could delete it.
To summarise what I intended to say: I'm not convinced that
quote:
Mary and Joseph in stable bare
is any more "crammed in" than, say,
quote:
heaven'ly hosts sing alleluia
from the other version.
Secondly the author responsible for the Still the night translation of Stille nacht was one Stopford Brook (1832 - 1916), described as an English divine and man of letters, who wrote a number of books on English poets, so it would be hard to accuse him of having no feeling for language, nor (ignoring the "over" for "o'er" substitution) is his version a "modern update"
However, it may just be that we prefer what we're used to. I believe "Still the night" is better known in Scotland, possibly because, as I said above, that is the version which appears in the Church Hymnary.
Robin
[Incomplete post above deleted as requested]
[ 14. May 2004, 09:54: Message edited by: TonyK ]
Posts: 263 | From: Aberdeen | Registered: May 2001
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hild
Shipmate
# 6042
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Posted
Hello, people.
I have just discovered the Ship, and was immediately drawn to this thread. Quite what that says about me, I dread to think. I have been rationing myself to a couple of pages a day, so that I don't end up in a straitjacket.
Two things have occurred to me so far (well, only two that I care to mention just yet).
First, do you remember a song called 'Ascribe greatness to our God, the Rock'?
It is nearly possible to accompany this with the music for 'Puff, the Magic Dragon.'
Sorry.
Secondly, I know very few children who actually like action songs. My own two have always loathed them. At our church (I suppose I'd better admit it is one of those that would once have been described as a house church, but please don't assume I have no musical taste because of that) I run 'praise parties'* for the 7-14 year olds. They would flatly refuse to do any actions. We do do dance moves, but rarely in an organised fashion. (At least, not organised by adults. For some reason some of the boys like to do a can-can variant if the music is the right speed.)
Surprisingly (or not) they have what I regard as a fair bit of musical taste, rejecting anything twee or boring. They don't ask for the old hymns, although will sing one occasionally if I ask nicely, but do demand some sense in a song. Even the one with the boings in it - they like the idea of Bouncing On In the Name of God. Contrived, yes, but if they get closer to God with it, it's fine by me. I get closer to Him too, if I sing it in a praise party. I don't think I would if surrounded by adults, though.
* 'Praise parties' in this context are opportunities for the kids (my 10 year old distinguishes between children (aged 3-6), kids (aged 7-12) and teenagers, and I have got into the habit of doing so too) to let their hair down without lots of boring adults expecting them to behave like a load of toddlers. We use upbeat music, usually fairly close in style to what they hear on TV/radio or buy on CD, i.e. secular stuff; we dance; they jump off the stage a lot; we have a few serious moments every now and again; we're usually tired by the end; a good time is generally had by all. Including God, I hope.
I await your reactions with interest....
H
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still journeying
Posts: 79 | From: Durham | Registered: May 2004
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Joykins
Shipmate
# 5820
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Posted
One of the hymns which has unfortunately been going through my head way too much recently is "Sweet, Sweet Spirit."
quote:
There's a sweet sweet spirit in this place
And I know that it's the spirit of the Lord
Pretty sure of that, aren't they? And my husbands former church sang this song *every week* as the church leadership slipped further and further into various weirdnesses.
quote:
There are sweet expressions on each face
And I know that it's the presence of the Lord
Frankly, it sounds like everyone is stoned. Maybe it's just pot smoke?
quote:
Sweet Holy Spirit
Sweet heavenly dove
Stay right here with us
Filling us with your love
And for these blessings
We lift our hearts in praise (hearts in praise)
Without a doubt we'll know that we have been revived
When we shall leave this place
This last bit wouldn't be so bad, except for all that sweetness. As the song ends, teeth decay and diabetics are frantically shooting up insulin as everyone walks around smiley and dazed...
Joy
Posts: 350 | From: Maryland, USA | Registered: Apr 2004
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
If the sweet sweet spirit was kahlua, I'd be right there. Mmmmm ...
Thankfully I haven't heard this one. It does remind me of the sickly oldie "I love you with the love of the lord" though.
Friends of mine taught me an alternative version:
I love you with the love of the Lord
Yes I love you with the love of the Lord
I can't stand your face
But I'm moving in His grace
So I'll love you with the love of the Lord
![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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TonyK
Host Emeritus
# 35
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Posted
Thank you, Hild, and welcome aboard the Ship.
Yours aye ... TonyK
Host, Dead Horses
Posts: 2717 | From: Gloucestershire | Registered: May 2001
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Boopy
Shipmate
# 4738
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robin:
That version of Silent Night is not particularly new; it appears in the Revised Church Hymnary and even the Public School Hymn Book (among others).
Robin
It is also in the old Baptist Hymn Book (1962 version). Not new at all!
Posts: 1170 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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Cod
Shipmate
# 2643
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Posted
I have another example of a rewritten hymn from the aformentioned church. I'm not quite sure why they did a hatchet job on this one; as it wasn't all that 'gender-biased' in the first place. But anyway.
quote:
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art.
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art!
has become
quote:
Then my heart leapes, my spirit bursts in praise;
Creator God, how great you are.
Then my heart leaps, my spirit bursts in praise;
Creator God, how great you are.
So far, not so bad. But then we get this gem at the end, just to prove that choruses aren't the only domain of 'God is my Boyfriend' songs, although perhaps as this is a hymn 'I had an Affair with God during my Mid-Life Crisis' might be a better way of putting it:
quote:
Then my heart leaps, my spirit bursts in thanks;
My lover God, how true you are
(x2)
This following a reference to 'Revealing God' makes for a very odd overall effect.
Does anyone think that rewriting hymns in this way is a form of plagiarism?
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"I fart in your general direction."
M Barnier
Posts: 4229 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Apr 2002
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