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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Crappy Choruses & Horrible Hymns redux
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John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
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Posted
We just sing those left side/right side of the room.
John
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seasick:
quote:
Songs of Praise said:
Has anyone yet mentioned those horrid 'question and answer' evangelical choruses, where the men <snip> provide the answers to the women's questions.
Such as Lift up your heads, O ye gates (the king of glory shall come in), thus:
Women: Who is the king of glory? What is his name? (i.e. Oh no, we've forgotten already, our heads are so full of kittens and knitting)
Men: We are the men and we know all the answers in this case!
Or something like that.
Otherwise, the women would be teaching the men, and that would be Bad™.
Oddly enough, in Teacher Skool, they tell us that asking the questions is the teaching part.
Bwahahah. [/evillaughofgenderdisparity]
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
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Metapelagius
Shipmate
# 9453
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Posted
Metrical psalms are not evangelical choruses, of course ... but if you look at the second part of Psalm 24 sung to St George's Edinburgh, the tenors and basses ask the questions, and the sopranos and altos join in the answer.
Suitable for feminists?
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Rec a archaw e nim naccer.
y rof a duv. dagnouet.
Am bo forth. y porth riet.
Crist ny buv e trist yth orsset.
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
quote:
Songs of Praise said:
Has anyone yet mentioned those horrid 'question and answer' evangelical choruses, where the men <snip> provide the answers to the women's questions.
Such as Lift up your heads, O ye gates (the king of glory shall come in), thus:
Women: Who is the king of glory? What is his name? (i.e. Oh no, we've forgotten already, our heads are so full of kittens and knitting)
Men: We are the men and we know all the answers in this case!
Or something like that.
That is because you are not singing the sensible Mr. Handel version, where the questions and answers alternate between the upper and lower parts. Unlike 'Good King Wenceslas' where all the women have to sing the weakening Page's part - walking about in the snow in their high heels again, no doubt. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
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Dubitante
Shipmate
# 10015
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Posted
Ages ago, on 15 July 2005 Tubbster wrote:
quote:
which moron put the words of "God is our strength and refuge" to the Dambusters theme? Can't sign it now without thinking of black and white films and/or that Carling Black Label advert
Answer is Richard Bewes, formerly of All Soles Langham Place London W1.
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"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
quote:
Songs of Praise said:
Has anyone yet mentioned those horrid 'question and answer' evangelical choruses, where the men <snip> provide the answers to the women's questions.
Such as Lift up your heads, O ye gates (the king of glory shall come in), thus:
Women: Who is the king of glory? What is his name? (i.e. Oh no, we've forgotten already, our heads are so full of kittens and knitting)
Men: We are the men and we know all the answers in this case!
Or something like that.
That is because you are not singing the sensible Mr. Handel version, where the questions and answers alternate between the upper and lower parts. Unlike 'Good King Wenceslas' where all the women have to sing the weakening Page's part - walking about in the snow in their high heels again, no doubt.
I think it was written with choirs of boys and men in mind, so the boys would sing the page's part, on account of the page being a boy.
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Faithful Sheepdog
Shipmate
# 2305
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dubitante:
Ages ago, on 15 July 2005 Tubbster wrote:
quote:
which moron put the words of "God is our strength and refuge" to the Dambusters theme? Can't sign it now without thinking of black and white films and/or that Carling Black Label advert
Answer is Richard Bewes, formerly of All Soles Langham Place London W1.
I don't think this hymn deserves to be on this thread at all. It's a fine metrical version of Psalm 46, set to an equally fine piece of music, The Dambusters' March.
Arranged for our music group and accompanied by military band style percussion, I thought that it worked extremely well. We are, after all, the "church militant here on earth".
Even if you still don't like it, count your blessings nevertheless. At least it will never be mistaken for "Jesus is my boyfriend" type music - it just oozes testosterone. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Neil
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"Random mutation/natural selection works great in folks’ imaginations, but it’s a bust in the real world." ~ Michael J. Behe
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GreyFace
Shipmate
# 4682
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Faithful Sheepdog:
quote:
Originally posted by Dubitante:
Ages ago, on 15 July 2005 Tubbster wrote:
quote:
which moron put the words of "God is our strength and refuge" to the Dambusters theme? Can't sign it now without thinking of black and white films and/or that Carling Black Label advert
Answer is Richard Bewes, formerly of All Soles Langham Place London W1.
I don't think this hymn deserves to be on this thread at all. It's a fine metrical version of Psalm 46, set to an equally fine piece of music, The Dambusters' March.
I like it, too. It's certainly one of the bits of Mission Praise I won't be consigning to the burning circular out-tray come the revolution.
And it provides an opportunity for much hilarity at choir practice, with pensioners pretending to be aeroplanes and the younger contingent carrying out bouncing bomb experiments with crumpled-up sheets of paper in the direction of the choirmaster.
But this thread is serious business, so carry on...
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
Fine if you are on the terraces for England vs Germany.
So, own up, which church has sung it on Remembrance Sunday? ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by TrudyTrudy (I say unto you):
"Heart of Worship" is just dirgelike and the lyrics are annoying. [/QB]
I know the origins of this song. Its meant to be a "dirge", a lament, a repent. A sort of Psalm 51 (acknowledgement of faults) for those who idolise musical worship, those who "worship worship" rather than worship God. It was written by Matt Redman in the context of a period of repentance for that fault at the Soul Survivor church in Watford UK. (The church leader had, temporarily, banned the band). The song was a recognition by him of a personal failing, by that community of a corporate failing. It caught on in the UK - and has been sung a lot over here - because it says something important about the dangers of that sort of overemphasis on sung worship, particularly amongst young Christians.
Because I know the story and the people, I find the song very moving. I think it is a very helpful reminder in context, but its use as a quiet worship song, unexplained and out of context, can be pretty inappropriate. A weed is a flower growing in the wrong place.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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rajm
Shipmate
# 5434
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
So, own up, which church has sung it on Remembrance Sunday?
I remember discussing the feasability of this, but now can't remember whether or not it happened - it was back in 1999. Maybe we just said the psalm (cowards!) ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
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TomM
Shipmate
# 4618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
quote:
Originally posted by TrudyTrudy (I say unto you):
"Heart of Worship" is just dirgelike and the lyrics are annoying.
I know the origins of this song. Its meant to be a "dirge", a lament, a repent. A sort of Psalm 51 (acknowledgement of faults) for those who idolise musical worship, those who "worship worship" rather than worship God. It was written by Matt Redman in the context of a period of repentance for that fault at the Soul Survivor church in Watford UK. (The church leader had, temporarily, banned the band). The song was a recognition by him of a personal failing, by that community of a corporate failing. It caught on in the UK - and has been sung a lot over here - because it says something important about the dangers of that sort of overemphasis on sung worship, particularly amongst young Christians.
Because I know the story and the people, I find the song very moving. I think it is a very helpful reminder in context, but its use as a quiet worship song, unexplained and out of context, can be pretty inappropriate. A weed is a flower growing in the wrong place.
Yeah unfortunatly it has joined the category of things it was written as an apology for!!!
Tom
[ 25. August 2005, 17:58: Message edited by: thomasm ]
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
The song is what it is Tom - and the story of its composition is pretty well known in the UK. The category it belongs to is confession, lament. If people use it as though it belongs in a different category, or even if they think that all contemporary Christian music is one category, that is their daftness.
Its about as daft as singing a musical setting of Psalm 51 as a great opening hymn of praise. Allegri's wonderful setting of Psalm 51 has huge appropriateness in Good Friday services - but you are not going to have any choir belting it out as an introit on Easter Sunday. It would be a weed, a flower in the wrong place. And the fault would not be with the flower, but with the fool who planted it.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy da Wonder Sheep:
quote:
Originally posted by seasick:
quote:
Songs of Praise said:
Has anyone yet mentioned those horrid 'question and answer' evangelical choruses, where the men <snip> provide the answers to the women's questions.
Such as Lift up your heads, O ye gates (the king of glory shall come in), thus:
Women: Who is the king of glory? What is his name? (i.e. Oh no, we've forgotten already, our heads are so full of kittens and knitting)
Men: We are the men and we know all the answers in this case!
Or something like that.
Otherwise, the women would be teaching the men, and that would be Bad™.
Oddly enough, in Teacher Skool, they tell us that asking the questions is the teaching part.
Bwahahah. [/evillaughofgenderdisparity]
Well, this is based on a psalm, and meant to be sung by two groups, the one answering the other, because that's the way the psalm is written too. But who says the men have to do all the answering bits?
I'm female and a worship leader (and yes, there are plenty of them - just look at any recent Spring Harvest album). If I do 'call and response' songs, I'm doing the 'call' bit. So usually the women end up singing those lines, and the men do the other lines.
The other singers on stage are mostly female too (the men like to hide behind instruments - chicken!). So we end up with all the parts being sung on stage by women. The congo can then follow whoever they wish!
I do find that some of the 'echo' songs work better with women doing the echo, though, just because the higher voices have a lovely ethereal quality to them. (For instance, 'I will worship' - particularly if some brave souls do a harmony a third above the echo, as I do. Sounds very Iona-ish then.)
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
I've just come back from a final assembly on the RSCM Bath course, at which the house captains parodied a Graham Kendrick song. One of the verses was (men, ordinary type; women, italics):
And now the women sing a bar be - bar behind,
And now the women sing a bar be - bar behind,
And now the women sing a bar be - bar behi-i-i-nd,
It goes on and on and on and on and on.
The audience were rolling in the aisles, for all the best reasons! ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Same tune, different words. I guess it's easy to make up new verses. One other one was:
Now you try to fit as many words into the line as you can so it doesn't scan (x3)
It goes on and on and on and on.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quantpole:
I'm sure it must have been linked to before, but was that a variation on Anyone can write a Graham Kendrick song?
loved it. Am now working on an analogous version for Martin Smith. Rough starting point.
"And all you have to do
Is change your point of view
Change the
Subject in each line
God
Is bigger than
You are the Lord
For You are Him
God will save the show
For He will know
That I mean You"
(Based on "My Glorious" and the habits of "Shout to the North")
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
Oh, now there's another one - 'My Glorious'. Thankfully I've only heard it on an album, never had to sing it. But there's that horrible lyric about 'God will save the day' (as if he was Indiana Jones), and then "all will say 'My Glorious'". My glorious what? It isn't an expression I've ever heard used.
And though I love to use 'My God is a great big God' for the kids' slot in church, I have to stop myself singing 'My dog is a great big dog'. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
I also have to watch it if we sing 'Be still my soul', when we get to 'When passing through the gates of pearly splendour'. I just know one day I'm going to sing 'days of Pearly Spencer' instead.
Back to horrible songs - I saw a song title recently, 'You are my glory'. Please tell me this isn't as heretical as it sounds!
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
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quantpole
Shipmate
# 8401
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Posted
quote:
Am now working on an analogous version for Martin Smith.
I'd have thought one of the most obvious would be I Could Sing of Your Love Forever simply because it changes so well to I Could Sing this Song Forever ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posts: 885 | From: Leeds | Registered: Aug 2004
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Julian4
Shipmate
# 9937
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Posted
Discussion of When the music fades above reminded me of when our church worship group were doing a short concert during the town's fair (or "Fayre"). I was giving some thought to what we did well and what sounded good, and that one fitted on both counts (we have an arrangement taken from "the source" that works well with our selection of instruments). Then I thought "hang on" - this, of all songs, is not one to do as a performance!
I'm sorry, Lord, for the thing I've made it,
When it's all about you...
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
I've just been reading an article about song writing in the RSCM quarterly magazine. And one of the major points is 'get someone to check the theology'. I wish all songwriters would do this before inflicting their oh so worthy offerings on an unsuspecting public.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
Back to horrible songs - I saw a song title recently, 'You are my glory'. Please tell me this isn't as heretical as it sounds!
Might be OK. It looks a bit like the veiled and unveiled passage at the end of 2 Cor 3. "Beholding his glory, we are being changed into his likeness from one degree of glory to another. Comes from God who is the Spirit," says Paul.
All together now
"Finish then Thy new creation .."
You get to the same notion about line 5. But at least its expressed corporately, rather than individually.
Haven't heard this newer song. It'll have a hard job to unseat "Love Divine all Loves excelling". Sung to "Blaenwern" of course. Those Welsh hymn tunes make the hairs stand up on the back of my neck - love 'em! (The alternative tune was not one of John Stainer's greatest works - IMO that is.)
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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Custard
Shipmate
# 5402
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
Fine if you are on the terraces for England vs Germany.
So, own up, which church has sung it on Remembrance Sunday?
I definitely remember singing both this and "Glorious things of Thee are Spoken" (to Austria) in a service shortly after England beat Germany at football...
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blog
Adam's likeness, Lord, efface;
Stamp thine image in its place.
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Custard.:
I definitely remember singing ..."Glorious things of Thee are Spoken" (to Austria) in a service shortly after England beat Germany at football...
But what can we sing, from the lexicon of horrible hymns and crappy choruses, when, for example, England are losing at soccer to Northern Ireland? We need a lament! "To Calvary, Lord, in Spirit now"? "By the Rivers of Babylon"? Any ideas?
Its a pity Sven does not appear to be a biblical word ....
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Jaeger
Shipmate
# 10355
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Posted
Anyone heard this one? I call it Prayer of the Flat-Chested Woman
Like the woman at the well I was thirsting
For things that could not satisfy
And then I heard my Saviour saying
Draw from my well that never can run dry
Fill my cup Lord, I lift it up Lord
Come and quench the thirsting of my soul
Bread of Heaven feed me till I want no more
Fill my cup, fill it up and make me whole!
Our youth mission team secretly sings it as "Fill my cups Lord...Breasts of Heaven fill me till I want no more"
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"If there were no God, it would be necessary to invent Him." ~Voltaire
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
]But what can we sing, from the lexicon of horrible hymns and crappy choruses, when, for example, England are losing at soccer to Northern Ireland? We need a lament!
There are dozens of songs that can be sung to the tune of The Star of the County Down
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
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Jante
Shipmate
# 9163
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jaeger:
Anyone heard this one? I call it Prayer of the Flat-Chested Woman
Like the woman at the well I was thirsting
For things that could not satisfy
And then I heard my Saviour saying
Draw from my well that never can run dry
Fill my cup Lord, I lift it up Lord
Come and quench the thirsting of my soul
Bread of Heaven feed me till I want no more
Fill my cup, fill it up and make me whole!
Our youth mission team secretly sings it as "Fill my cups Lord...Breasts of Heaven fill me till I want no more"
I'd forgotten I ever knew that chorus until I sow it printed here. I only remeber the chorus part not the verse and haven't sung it ofr at least 25 years!!!!
Jante
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My blog http://vicarfactorycalling.blogspot.com/
Posts: 535 | From: deepest derbyshire | Registered: Mar 2005
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Catrine
Shipmate
# 9811
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
But what can we sing, from the lexicon of horrible hymns and crappy choruses, when, for example, England are losing at soccer to Northern Ireland? We need a lament! "To Calvary, Lord, in Spirit now"? "By the Rivers of Babylon"? Any ideas?
Perhaps slightly off point here, but during the NI match against Azerbjan there was a religious chant that went thus....
"Away in a manger
No crib for a bed
The little Lord Jesus
Lay down his sweet head
The stars in the bright sky
Looked down where HEALY, HEALY, HEALY
......HEALY"
Referring of course to David Healy. Listened for it during the England game, but was disappointed at its absense ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
Thankfully Britain Yearly Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends doesn't often have music although the I sometimes miss some of the good old hymns of my Anglo-Catholic days.
However, just round the corner from this very house there is a firm of accountants called Messrs Sankar and Moorthy and I just can't get over giggling every time I see their sign!
![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Its a pity Sven does not appear to be a biblical word ....
What about the Book with the Sven Seals?
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
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What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
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fnk
Ship's Errand Boy
# 10377
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Posted
I have spent a good long while reading this thread and laughing (a lot).
The worst song we sing at our church is the rather vacuous:
Hear these praises from a grateful heart,
Each time I think of you the praises start (?!)
Love you soooooo much, Jesus
Love you soooooo much...
Hideous rhyme, and it always sounds to me like it was written late at night, by someone who had promised to perform something the following morning and had got desperate.
Cheers
K.
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You can lead a horse to water,
but you can't make it enjoy the view
- Love This City, The Whitlams
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The Venomous Bede
Apprentice
# 7991
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Posted
OK - so our new Rector wants "O Valiant Hearts" on Remembrance Sunday. I think it is heretical. My mother told me she used to sing it on Empire Day in New Zealand. I would rather be locked in a room (for a very short time) with Kendrick. any input? ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
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HenryT
Canadian Anglican
# 3722
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Venomous Bede:
OK - so our new Rector wants "O Valiant Hearts" on Remembrance Sunday. I think it is heretical. My mother told me she used to sing it on Empire Day in New Zealand. I would rather be locked in a room (for a very short time) with Kendrick. any input?
Cyberhymnal page -- if it's heretical, it's pretty subtle.
BTW, looking forward to three days with Graham Kendrick in Ottawa.
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"Perhaps an invincible attachment to the dearest rights of man may, in these refined, enlightened days, be deemed old-fashioned" P. Henry, 1788
Posts: 7231 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 2002
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Julian4
Shipmate
# 9937
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Posted
I suppose the hereticality of the opinions expressed in O Valiant Hearts probably belongs in Purgatory rather than here, but I would have issues with this hymn in that it's addressed to the war dead rather than to God, and it also implies that Jesus' sacrifice is the moral equivalent to being killed in battle. This debate could obviously go further, but that's enough to make it a "Horrible Hymn" for me.
I vow to thee, my country anyone?
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
I haven't read through all the pages here so forgive me if I repeat something someone else has alread posted, but on the first page or two there was talk of choruses which start with or incorporate melodies of pop songs. This reminded me of the opening lines of "Give thanks with a grateful heart" (well, how else does one give thanks?), which is suspiciously reminiscent of the opening lines of "Go West" by the Pet Shop Boys...
[ETA I Vow to Thee is simlarly lifted from Holst's Planets Suite ( Jupiter IIRC)]
[ 28. October 2005, 10:16: Message edited by: Matt Black ]
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
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The Expatriate Theolinguist
Shipmate
# 6064
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
I haven't read through all the pages here so forgive me if I repeat something someone else has alread posted, but on the first page or two there was talk of choruses which start with or incorporate melodies of pop songs. This reminded me of the opening lines of "Give thanks with a grateful heart" (well, how else does one give thanks?), which is suspiciously reminiscent of the opening lines of "Go West" by the Pet Shop Boys...
That's funny. I used to sing 'Give Thanks' in church as a little 6-year-old kid. When, at 13, I heard the Pet Shop Boys song (I was very behind in my pop-music knowledge at that time) I thought they'd copied the worship song! And I thought it was really cool that they obviously knew Christian worship songs so well, so they were obviously Christians and were going to start a revival...
OK, that last sentence is exaggerating. But you know what I mean.
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Je suis une petite pomme de terre.
Formerly mr_ricarno, many moons ago.
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blackaxe
Shipmate
# 10622
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Posted
I concur on the PSB Go West and Give thanks similarities - very hard to get that camp PSB video out of one's head when confronted by this (overdone) chorus.
As for heretical or just plain stupid lyrics, I distinctly remember once singing a hymn from the Australian Baptist Hymnal which was categorised under 'Mission in the World'- one particularly descriptive verse about Africa had a line saying 'as apes swing from the trees' - my mother and I almost choked from suppressing laughter, as did many others in the congregation...
Then a few years ago at a Presbyterian church service, we sang a hymn that had a particularly Tolkien inspired verse with mentions of hobgoblins and trolls - I kid you not!
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I will dwell in the (architect-designed) house of the Lord forever...
Posts: 285 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by blackaxe:
Then a few years ago at a Presbyterian church service, we sang a hymn that had a particularly Tolkien inspired verse with mentions of hobgoblins and trolls - I kid you not!
I don't know about trolls, but To be a pilgrim has hobgoblins and foul fiends in it. Bunyan predates Tolkien by a few centuries though.
Carys
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001
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FreeJack
Shipmate
# 10612
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Posted
There's one song I can't quite remember that has a chorus that goes something like:
as the train of your robe fills this temple
as the something of your something fills this place
Great is the Lord holy and pure
Can anyone remember how it starts please because I think the first verse is irritating in some way that has been removed from my brain to preserve my sanity?
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Ann
Curious
# 94
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Posted
Not as much memory as searching the OHP files I organise:
What can I say but ‘I love You’?
What can I say but ‘I praise You’?
(As it is short, I'll leave it as that; if you have Songs of Fluffiness book 3 (the new book 3 - the first 3 or 4 short books got combined many years ago and have since been added to) it's number 1594.)
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Ann
Posts: 3271 | From: IO 91 PI | Registered: May 2001
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FreeJack
Shipmate
# 10612
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ann:
Not as much memory as searching the OHP files I organise:
What can I say but ‘I love You’?
What can I say but ‘I praise You’?
(As it is short, I'll leave it as that; if you have Songs of Fluffiness book 3 (the new book 3 - the first 3 or 4 short books got combined many years ago and have since been added to) it's number 1594.)
Thanks. That's the one.
Yes, well the first thing that I dislike is that the second line is an answer/contradiction to the first line and vice versa. The third and fourth lines are similar. I really didn't get the whole temple and robes imagery either.
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jlg
What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98
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Posted
Indeed, even much of the dross of hymnody and even praise songs does have proper roots in biblical passages.
What the composer chooses to do with them is the problem, n'est-ce pas?
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001
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FreeJack
Shipmate
# 10612
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Posted
Ah yes but it is slightly surreal to be in an evangelical church which is distinctly non robed non temple and you just get one line about temples, another about this place, with no explanation.
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The Expatriate Theolinguist
Shipmate
# 6064
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carys:
I don't know about trolls, but To be a pilgrim has hobgoblins and foul fiends in it. Bunyan predates Tolkien by a few centuries though.
Funny, that. We sang that version of TbaP at St Ed's a couple of weeks ago, and I didn't recognise those lyrics. The version we sang at school (it was their anthem) was far less weird. And, in my humble opinion, better than the hobgoblin version.
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Je suis une petite pomme de terre.
Formerly mr_ricarno, many moons ago.
Posts: 731 | From: Upstate New York | Registered: May 2004
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
There do seem to be two versions going around. Does it start "He who would valiant be" or "He who would true valour see"?
I think the hymn loses a certain je ne sais quoi without the hobgoblins.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Teufelchen
Shipmate
# 10158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
There do seem to be two versions going around. Does it start "He who would valiant be" or "He who would true valour see"?
I think the hymn loses a certain je ne sais quoi without the hobgoblins.
Bunyan's original version is packed with gobliny goodness. The later (early-C20th?) version seems pale and anemic by comparison, but manages to leave in the giants, so it's not a fully-exorcised Jack-Chick-compliant version either.
T.
[ 31. October 2005, 12:38: Message edited by: Teufelchen ]
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Little devil
Posts: 3894 | From: London area | Registered: Aug 2005
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Robin
Shipmate
# 71
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Posted
Research suggests that the gentleman responsible for replacing
Hobgoblin nor foul fiend
can daunt his spirit
with
Since, Lord, thou does defend
us with thy Spirit
was Percy Dearmer
Robin
Posts: 263 | From: Aberdeen | Registered: May 2001
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Gracious rebel
Rainbow warrior
# 3523
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Posted
Someone made a reference to that verse from Isaiah (and it appears in several musical settings) where 'his train fills the temple'
Can I just add an aside - that when travelling to Bristol by train, this always springs to mind as the station is called 'Temple Meads'. Anyone else make this connection or is it the weird way my brain works?
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Fancy a break beside the sea in Suffolk? Visit my website
Posts: 4413 | From: Suffolk UK | Registered: Nov 2002
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