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Source: (consider it) Thread: Crappy Choruses & Horrible Hymns redux
ken
Ship's Roundhead
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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
There aren't many surprises. Or maybe there are.

There is only one in that top 25 that I don't recognise as in common use in our place.

But most of those songs are quite good. And three or four of them are bloody wonderful. So they are surely off-topic for this thread?

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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mrs whibley
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The major surprise to me is that so many of the songs in the 'schools' section are those I sang at school.
Actually, I have been thinking of them as typical 1970s songs for about 30 years, when I should have viewed them as typical school songs!

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Miffy

Ship's elephant
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quote:
Originally posted by mrs whibley:
The major surprise to me is that so many of the songs in the 'schools' section are those I sang at school.
Actually, I have been thinking of them as typical 1970s songs for about 30 years, when I should have viewed them as typical school songs!

Slight tangent here. Our 19 year old son remarked the other day that he still remembers the songs he had to sing at our local C of E Junior School. Apparently they come into their own at the end of a long hard drinking session, when he says you can always tell who's been to a church school; they always seek each other out for a sing-song. I can just picture 'When a Knight Won His Spurs,' and 'Give Me Oil in My Lamp,' being roared out, karaoke-style in Varsity. [Eek!] Maybe Beer n' Hymns is on to a good thing.
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Alex Cockell

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quote:
Originally posted by Mama Thomas:
In a thread 32 pages long and growing, I'll bet this collection has probably been linked several times. This has to be done on purpose--a collection of the worst and crappiest of choruses and most horrible of hymns--bar none.

Trust me, if you haven't seen, you won't get very far before deciding you've had enough.

Oh. Dear. God. (reading through them)
[Projectile] [Disappointed] [Ultra confused]

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Athrawes
Ship's parrot
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Oh, come now. I reckon 'Stinky Sox' has potential. [Devil]

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Explaining why is going to need a moment, since along the way we must take in the Ancient Greeks, the study of birds, witchcraft, 19thC Vaudeville and the history of baseball. Michael Quinion.

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Pearl B4 Swine
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About the 'collection' Mama Thomas cited - it can only be imagined what the "music" might be like for these gems, if its the same caliber as the ..umm...poetry. Wow.

I think I might hand this one out to my choir, last rehearsal of the season, just to see them falling about in helpless hysterical laughter:
CHORUS
Alleluia, alleluia
We're completely covered now
In the Name of Jesus
Alleluia, alleluia
And the Glory of the Lord is our Rear Guard

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Oinkster

"I do a good job and I know how to do this stuff" D. Trump (speaking of the POTUS job)

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John Holding

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Samurai Pizzcats?

Superheroes of whom I've never heard, though to my shame I have heard of most of the rest. I blame my children.

John

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mrs whibley
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A quick Google revealed the existence of Samurai Pizza Cats, although I didn't dare look any further.
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Alex Cockell

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Premier Radio are doing another radiothon - and they offered as a "reward" for gathering enough donations in an hour (900 quid) - to play Julia Plaut's "Mr Cow".

Someone has to die.

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Curiosity killed ...

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Sadly, we sing Mr Cow in toddler church (to babies and under twos). Last week it was to the comment of both of us leading the singing as to how much we hated it. That means I have an excuse not to sing it again this term! [Yipee]

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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat

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Dal Segno

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But some people find Mr Cow inspiring.

[must go back to work and stop posting on random threads]

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Yet ever and anon a trumpet sounds

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Qupe
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'Mr Cow'......blimey. Embedded forver in my memory, forver associated with a period of my life in which the average time I was woken up by my two toddlers of a morning was 4.30 a.m., a time in which I survived on strong coffee, frantic, sporadic prayer and an over-bouyant church Mothers and Babies group. By biscuit time I was normally hallucinating with exhaustion anyway. Somehow Mr Cow made a weird kind of sense back then.

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'Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.'

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Aravis
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My daughter goes to the school where Julia Plaut teaches, and apparently some of her colleagues tease her mercilessly about "Mr Cow". She's refusing to answer to "Mrs Bull" at present. [Big Grin]
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Alex Cockell

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AAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THEY REPEATED THE TORTURE!

However, apparently it was good to hear that when it was played yesterday, support staffers around Premier were cringing - and one commented about possibly throwing himself out of a window...

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Cottontail

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As a farmer's daughter, I object to Mr Cow. It is biologically inaccurate, and therefore damaging to our children's education. And if that's not a reason for banning it, I don't know what is.

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"I don't think you ought to read so much theology," said Lord Peter. "It has a brutalizing influence."

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Margaret

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I was one of those lucky people who'd never heard of "Mr Cow" until I came across it on this thread. I thought I'd amuse a friend who works in a milk testing lab by sending her a page which advertises the CD, and I made the mistake of clicking the link which gives you the first thirty seconds of it...

Oh Lord, I wish I hadn't. Where's the brain bleach?

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TiggyTiger
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I loved 'When A Knight Won His Spurs' at school and I still do. 'Tis a noble song, sire.

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'Each and everybody is hiding, each is concealing the place where his heart beats.'
Daniel Barenboim

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Psychman

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quote:
Originally posted by Margaret:
I was one of those lucky people who'd never heard of "Mr Cow" until I came across it on this thread. I thought I'd amuse a friend who works in a milk testing lab by sending her a page which advertises the CD, and I made the mistake of clicking the link which gives you the first thirty seconds of it...

Oh Lord, I wish I hadn't. Where's the brain bleach?

I prescribe a dose of Death Metal, pick your own track [Devil]
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Gill H

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Came across a new one last night - Tim Hughes I think? - called 'Remember'.

It wasn't a bad song in itself. A nice gentle meditative song for during Communion, giving thanks for the cross.

But the opening lines made me cringe:

I remember You
I remember what You did

It just begs to be followed by

And I'm telling my mum!

I have mentally retitled it I Know What You Did Last Easter.

[ 29. June 2009, 06:06: Message edited by: Gill H ]

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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.

- Lyda Rose

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TiggyTiger
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I've particularly cringed at a chorus that I've heard in a few churches since I started going to church again - one that goes,

'It's all about you, Jesus'

The other night I had a lengthy dream, due to the lengthy sleep, and it was various scenarios involving shoes. Now I keep singing,

'It's all about shoes, Jesus'.

100% fact! :-)

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'Each and everybody is hiding, each is concealing the place where his heart beats.'
Daniel Barenboim

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Lossky come home
Apprentice
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My thoughts are on horrendous hymns, not crappy choruses. As a kid at chapel, there was a snigger to be had when the elderly sopranos belted out:

I seek a man-
I seek a man-
I seek a mansion in the skies

Then of course there's good ol' Mrs Alexander and the less oft sung verse in the already horrible "All things bright and beautiful":

The rich man in his castle
The poor man at his gate
God made them high or lowly
And ordered their estate

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LutheranChik
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Yesterday morning at our shack, the organist's choice (it always is) for opening "hymn" was the contemporary song "Shout to the Lord." She said, "I'll play it twice, then you can come in on the third time." (Always a time to worry, when the organist has to tell the faithful when to start singing.) No one knew what in hell she was doing...the first two play-throughs came and went, she upped the volume a bit, and then...no one sang, except her. All the way through. It was one of those "Dear Lord, please make it stop now" moments.

And speaking of children's songs...I've not met the acquaintance of "Mr. Cow," but one summer after our smaller children attended church camp they were invited to come up to the front of the church during morning announcements and perform one of the songs they'd learned at camp. Their choice was a sprightly little number called "The Beaver Song." ("Beavers one, beavers all/let's all do the beaver call!") It was a long, LONG three minutes. It's still a joke at our house.

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Simul iustus et peccator
http://www.lutheranchiklworddiary.blogspot.com

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

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quote:
Originally posted by LutheranChik:
It was one of those "Dear Lord, please make it stop now" moments.

I hope she got the message.

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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

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Darllenwr
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My son Robert (aka, Booktonmacarthur) is an evil little **** (substitute whatever epithet suits your liking)

He heard me laughing at the comments about "Mr Cow". I should explain that we are currently in a holiday house in York that backs onto the River Foss. We were suddenly treated to a blast of "Mr Cow" (undoubtedly the sample to which Margaret alluded). [Eek!]

All I can say is that Robert should consider himself fortunate not to be currently floating face-down in the Foss... [Devil]

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If I've told you once, I've told you a million times: I do not exaggerate!

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Lord Pontivillian
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Hehe...It is a truly awful song, not improved by a second airing! [Big Grin]

I am so lucky to know that I am truly loved [Razz]

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The Church in Wales is Ancient, Catholic and Deformed - Typo found in old catechism.

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Alex Cockell

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Post-refit, I've been involved with reformatting all lyrics on file (pretty much all of SOF 1-4) for our projector...

And am VERY thankful that not much of SOF 1 is sung...

Some writers seem to think that God wants to be addressed like Yoda... Prince of Peace you are by Robert Gay... [Ultra confused]

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ken
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SOF1?

There are loads of good old songs in SOF1. And a few good new ones. Its got most ot the now "classic" (i.e boring and played too often and beloved of 60-something women preachers) chouses from the 1970s and 1980s.

SOF3 and later have some good new writing among the ephemeral stuff and also round up the best of the older hymns missing from the first book. For much of the world they were the introduction to the new hymns by Stuart Townend and others (its silly to call them "choruses" - these are for belting out in church, not sitting around strumming a guitar - and they usually don't have repetitive refrains)

It is SOF TWO that is basically the out-takes from the CCK Sunday School circa 1997 as influenced by the Jesus is my Boyfriend Movement

For example number 837 in the combined edition starts:

quote:

I've got a love song in my heart. It's for you Lord!!

And this love song is apparently:

quote:

La la la la la la la la
La la la la la la la la
La la la la la la la la
La la la la la la la la
(repeat)

And as for 1059:

quote:

This is my pilgrimage
to climb into You
[...]
I'm so restless, hear my words O God.

Or 756:
quote:

He made the earth
He made the sky
He made the sun and the moon and the stars
Jupiter and Mars
He made the sun for everyone
[...]
He made the boys
He made the girls
He made our Mums and Dads
[...]


Our God is beautiful
Our God is great



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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Baptist Trainfan
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Now I haven't gone back over the 698 pages of this thread ... but has anyone quoted Estelle White's hymn "Autumn Days":

Autumn days when the grass is jewelled
And the silk inside a chestnut shell
Jet planes meeting in the air to be refuelled
All these things I love so well

Chorus:
So I mustn't forget
No, I mustn't forget
To say a great big thank-you,
I mustn't forget.

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Alex Cockell

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Er - Ken... yeah.. you have a point...
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jlg

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Why am I here?
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quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:

Autumn days when the grass is jewelled
And the silk inside a chestnut shell
Jet planes meeting in the air to be refuelled
All these things I love so well

Yes, because watching in-flight refuelling is something most people have experienced and have fond memories of. [Roll Eyes]
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mousethief

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Not to mention that the scansion is downright painful.

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

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leo
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I jumped for joy when I read last week's Church Times.

The back page has an interview with Matt Redman in which he says that his greatest regret is that he never learned to read music: 'My biggest regret is not learning to read music.'

http://www.churchtimes.co.uk/content.asp?id=82361

That is music to the ears of all of us who hate his songs.

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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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Jengie jon

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quote:
Originally posted by ken:

It is SOF TWO that is basically the out-takes from the CCK Sunday School circa 1997 as influenced by the Jesus is my Boyfriend Movement

SOF came out about 1986 I'd guess, from the fact I bought SOF1 before I went to University ie before 1984.

Sounds as if they were doing pretty well to me!

Jengie

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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge

Back to my blog

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mrs whibley
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I'm pretty sure SoF 1-3 was fully formed and bound into one volume by the time I went to university in 1989. I can picture the brown 'leather' music version owned by our CU worship leaders.
By 1997 we had gone through not only Jesus is my Boyfriend but all the Kendrick March for Jesus stuff and were heading into the Redman era, amply represented by numbers 950ish onwards in Mission Praise (some of which is actually Quite Good IMHO).

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Jengie jon

Semper Reformanda
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Here is something to entertain people. I thought this might require its own thread but think is well within the theme here.

I discovered the website of Hymnal Net today.

If anything its midi are easier to listen to than those of cyberhymnal but why I have started this thread is in searching for something else I came across O praise the Lord, God had a plan.

Jengie

--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge

Back to my blog

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Cottontail

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[Killing me]

Oh, Jengie, that made my day!

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"I don't think you ought to read so much theology," said Lord Peter. "It has a brutalizing influence."

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Gill H

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"Oh hallelujah, I'm a man"

[Killing me]

--------------------
*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.

- Lyda Rose

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Pine Marten
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Hallelujah I'm a bum,
Hallelujah bum again,
Hallelujah! give us a handout
and revive us again.


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Keep love in your heart. A life without it is like a sunless garden when the flowers are dead. - Oscar Wilde

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Pretty Butterfly
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quote:
Originally posted by jlg:
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:

Autumn days when the grass is jewelled
And the silk inside a chestnut shell
Jet planes meeting in the air to be refuelled
All these things I love so well

Yes, because watching in-flight refuelling is something most people have experienced and have fond memories of. [Roll Eyes]
I used to love that one when we sung it in school. [Hot and Hormonal] That and Cauliflowers Fluffy.

[Hot and Hormonal] [Hot and Hormonal] [Hot and Hormonal]

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Max.
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Broadbeans are sleeping in a blankety bed (yeah!) [Biased]


Max.

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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.

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andythehat

Ship's Flying Monk
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quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Here is something to entertain people. I thought this might require its own thread but think is well within the theme here.

I discovered the website of Hymnal Net today.

If anything its midi are easier to listen to than those of cyberhymnal but why I have started this thread is in searching for something else I came across O praise the Lord, God had a plan.

Jengie

[Killing me] [Killing me] [Killing me] [Killing me]
The Wife is an Elder of the local URC, and one of our constant differences of opinion (my background - brought up Anglican, still looking for a replacement for the Vicar of my Parish c.1980, happiest with "proper" trad. worship)- is to do with "Worship Songs". What's wrong with a Proper Hymn??? For instance - "My God Is A Great Big God" is not, IMHO, a suitable song to follow Communion. However, I get the horrible feeling that if I let her into the existence of this site, she'll be teaching the kids "Oh Praise the Lord" within a week....

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Get your warm fuzzy feeling here!

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Low Treason
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quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Here is something to entertain people. I thought this might require its own thread but think is well within the theme here.

I discovered the website of Hymnal Net today.

If anything its midi are easier to listen to than those of cyberhymnal but why I have started this thread is in searching for something else I came across O praise the Lord, God had a plan.

Jengie

Hmmmmmmm

What do the ladies sing during verse 3? [Paranoid]

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He brought me to the banqueting house, and His banner over me was love.

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multipara
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No doubt they keep silent as St Paul recommended..

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quod scripsi, scripsi

Posts: 4985 | From: new south wales | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
the coiled spring
Shipmate
# 2872

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At least some churches are catering for the deaf

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give back to God what He gives so it is used for His glory not ours.

Posts: 2359 | From: mountain top retreat lodge overlooking skegness | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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I think this is suitable here - I wondered about a Hell thread, but a dead horse is still a dead horse of course...

I'm learning the guitar. I've a very nice steel-stringed acoustic that I got as a Christmas present last year, and I've slowly progressed from "how the hell am I supposed to bend my fingers like that?" to "ooh, F#m, I know that one!" I've some song books and can massacre some well-known pop songs from the last four decades.

My church has recently started doing an open practice, once a month, so that new musicians can see what it's like playing in a worship group and to ring the changes on what has been up until now an established group of musicians.

What I've discovered is that a lot of the songs we regularly sing aren't just well, crappy: they're also very poorly written from a players point of view. Compared with the pop and rock songs I play, they're unnecessarily and stupidly complex, simply for complexity's sake.

I can pretty much play The La's 'There she goes'. It involves multiple, fast, chord changes per line. But those chords, I have discovered, are easy to move between - frex G/D/Cadd9/D - from D to the Cadd9 to the D involves a pivot on one string which means even a duffer like me isn't left searching the fret board for inspiration. Also the phrases repeat, so that you get used to playing the same combination of chords. It sounds (even when I play it) good. It's well written in terms of chord progression and structure, and it's challenging without being ludicrous.

We move on to the Kendrick song I practiced on Saturday. I was up and down the fret board like a late-night drunk looking for an open bar. The song changed chords almost every single word. It used chords I'd never even heard of, let alone knew how to play. It even changed its time signature for the chorus. It was a mess, a complete and utter mess.

I asked the long-time bass player in the worship band, who also plays acoustic, what I was supposed to do with this train-wreck of a song. "I try and get the first chord of each bar: anything else is a bonus," he said - and he's been playing for 20 years.

So - I accuse. If Christian songwriters are supposed to be writing songs that congregations can sing and play in order to help them worship God, a lot of their output simply isn't fit for purpose. Comparing the musicality of these modern worship songs with the classic pop songs of the last four decades - Heroes has three chords! Teenage Dirtbag has three chords! - shows just how poor a great deal of the Christian stuff is.

Of course, I might be just in a fit of pique because I've just realised how crap at guitar I actually am, and how much of a mountain I have to climb. Meh. But I am pissed off. I'm not saying it should be easy. I am saying that it shouldn't be stupidly difficult.

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Forward the New Republic

Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Gill H

Shipmate
# 68

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Hi Doc Tor

I wonder whether the song was written on piano rather than guitar? If it's a hymn-like song, then it would be quite normal to change chords more frequently. It's an issue that comes up every year in my church when the guitar-based band try to play carols. They usually resort to chopping out a lot of the chords.

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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.

- Lyda Rose

Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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You could be right - but wasn't a hymn-like song in either pace or style, and we tend to the 'happy clappy' end of the spectrum on a regular basis. If we do a slower hymn-like thing, it's mainly Stuart Townend stuff: the newer Kendrick songs I was attempting to play were just regular worship songs.

And - I don't know how it is for other churches, but we have one competent piano player against three/four good guitarists, two good bass players and three good drummers. I'd argue that if you're writing the guitar part for a worship song (these are the official printed tabs above the score), the level of skill required to play it straight shouldn't be that of a virtuoso.

We do some YFriday songs (we could hardly not, as they're a local band), we do Delirious? songs, and stuff by Doug Horley and Andy Piercy (ex-ATF) and Ishmael, and none of it is as fantastically byzantine as the Kendrick. Perhaps I should just persuade my vicar to do a U2charist at some point...

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Forward the New Republic

Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
John Holding

Coffee and Cognac
# 158

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One of the problems with some of these things (and believe me, as a keyboardist I struggle with deciding which 6 of the 12 notes in each chord of the printed score I should actually play) is that a couple of really good guitarists, a keyboardist and a drummer worked hard and sweat bullets. THen someone recorded it. Then someone altogether different sat down with nothing on paper to try and figure out how to transcribe it. So every little overtone and harmonic got its own note. And every little push and bit of rubato got its dotted sixteenth and compensating 32nd tied across the bar line.

Someone who knows music needs to sit down with these transcripts and edit them, over the dead bodies of the original performers and, if necessar, of the composer, to produce a score that musicians can build on.

John

Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Alex Cockell

Ship’s penguin
# 7487

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Or you get good musos who can play by ear.. and play and replay the original...
Posts: 2146 | From: Reading, Berkshire UK | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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I imagine that John's probably right about the genesis of these tab lines. Like I said, some of the chords are so fantastically obscure that I have to assume it's some vast, cold machine deciding on the basis of the recording that that's what was played.

I shall carry on hacking away - I have Peter Gabriel's Solsbury Hill in my sights now...

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Forward the New Republic

Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged



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