|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: The Tatler
|
|
|
|
|
Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
The old-fashioned Anglo-Catholics said TYTIYS,
Pronounced Titties I presume.
--------------------
Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
The old-fashioned Anglo-Catholics said TYTIYS,
Pronounced Titties I presume.
Precisely!
--------------------
You can't retire from a calling.
Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
|
Posted
And what about the hunting pink and breeches of the old-style squarson?
--------------------
My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
|
Posted
Plus-fours certainly okay by me.
As to the hunting pinks & breeches: it is said that the open-fronted surplices (with button at the neck) found in Oxbridge colleges were so made that the undergraduates could not conceal their hunting togs. Dunno if it's so, but I like the idea!
--------------------
You can't retire from a calling.
Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Saint Hedrin the Lesser-Known:
Will clergy be forgiven for wearing plus-fours instead of regular trousers 'neath the cassock?
Ah well, I gather that there were Anglican clergy who wore breeches and stockings until well into Victorian times and I recall seeing photographs of a Spanish canon of the first decade of the 20th century in breeches. Photos of Leo XIII seated suggest he did the same. So there is plenty of precedent.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
|
Posted
OK, I had to look that up. You guys are talking about golf pants?? ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif) Plus-fours, for the uninitiated. Carry on.
--------------------
Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
|
Posted
Is it acceptable to show a dash of gaiter beneath the cassock hem? Or should dignitaries de-gaiter before robing?
(I suspect that this is the kind of problem that PD has to consider all the time... ![[Smile]](smile.gif) )
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Is it acceptable to show a dash of gaiter beneath the cassock hem? Or should dignitaries de-gaiter before robing?
(I suspect that this is the kind of problem that PD has to consider all the time... )
Based on photographs I have seen, gaiters were traditionally worn with the 'apron,' which was originally in fact the cassock kilted up so that the hem was just below the knee. And over this, of course, the frogged frock coat. All quite splendid and possibly not seen since Geoffrey Fisher(?)
Thus it would seem that said dignitary should remove frock coat, apron and gaiters (or any combo thereof) before vesting.
--------------------
You can't retire from a calling.
Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
american piskie
Shipmate
# 593
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
Based on photographs I have seen, gaiters were traditionally worn with the 'apron,' which was originally in fact the cassock kilted up so that the hem was just below the knee. And over this, of course, the frogged frock coat. All quite splendid and possibly not seen since Geoffrey Fisher(?)
Here he is, with Cardinal Bourne to match!
Gaitered Prelates with Man in Shorts
(Scroll down to second pic.)
But the Archdeacon of Oxford was wearing gaiters long after Fisher's death.
Posts: 356 | From: Oxford, England, UK | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
|
Posted
Re: the Archdeacon's gaiters:
Is that why Oxford has been called 'the last home of lost causes?'
--------------------
You can't retire from a calling.
Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by american piskie:
quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
Based on photographs I have seen, gaiters were traditionally worn with the 'apron,' which was originally in fact the cassock kilted up so that the hem was just below the knee. And over this, of course, the frogged frock coat. All quite splendid and possibly not seen since Geoffrey Fisher(?)
Here he is, with Cardinal Bourne to match!
Gaitered Prelates with Man in Shorts
(Scroll down to second pic.)
But the Archdeacon of Oxford was wearing gaiters long after Fisher's death.
Very interesting to see the Cardinal in gaiters- never seen an RC prelate in them before.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
|
Posted
And isn't that ++Lang rather than Fisher (in fact must be, because Fisher didn't become ABC until 1944 by which time both B-P and Bourne were dead).
--------------------
My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
PD
Shipmate
# 12436
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Is it acceptable to show a dash of gaiter beneath the cassock hem? Or should dignitaries de-gaiter before robing?
(I suspect that this is the kind of problem that PD has to consider all the time... )
Based on photographs I have seen, gaiters were traditionally worn with the 'apron,' which was originally in fact the cassock kilted up so that the hem was just below the knee. And over this, of course, the frogged frock coat. All quite splendid and possibly not seen since Geoffrey Fisher(?)
Thus it would seem that said dignitary should remove frock coat, apron and gaiters (or any combo thereof) before vesting.
Incorrect.
Frock coat off. Apron and gaiters retained. Usual drill was throw rochet and chimere over apron and gaiters and you are good to go.
PD - who is still threatening to reintroduce 'apron and gaiters' at diocesan expense the next time anyone mentions 'focus groups' at a diocesan meeting.
--------------------
Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
american piskie
Shipmate
# 593
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
And isn't that ++Lang rather than Fisher (in fact must be, because Fisher didn't become ABC until 1944 by which time both B-P and Bourne were dead).
I am sorry, the Spanish website where I first saw this said it was Bourne; Fisher was my own mistake.
Re +Westminster in gaiters, the Spanish website takes the "ecumenism gone mad" line!
Posts: 356 | From: Oxford, England, UK | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by american piskie:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
And isn't that ++Lang rather than Fisher (in fact must be, because Fisher didn't become ABC until 1944 by which time both B-P and Bourne were dead).
I am sorry, the Spanish website where I first saw this said it was Bourne; Fisher was my own mistake.
No, easy mistake and the point is that it's a cracking good picture- many thanks for finding it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
|
Posted
I either have never seen this thread before, or else completely forgot about it a long time ago! How did that happen? ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif) Good stuff here! ![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
Posts: 1240 | From: U.S. | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
|
Posted
Gaiters, for those who are interested, were frequently sported by Spanish RC clerics until the times of Alfonso XII, at any rate. For street use, they wore cassocks, but in the countryside, especially when riding, breeches and gaiters were the standard. An older version can be seen worn by the prelate in the film, The Mission, when he went on his visitation to Paraguay.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
anne
Shipmate
# 73
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
The old-fashioned Anglo-Catholics said TYTIYS, which being interpreted is 'Tuck your trousers in your socks,' it somehow being less than Catholic to have trouser bottoms showing.
I always do that because it looks better. Now I have a more important reason fore doing it.
At the rehearsal for my ordination, the dean told us to TYTIYS, not having noticed, apparently, that at least half of us were wearing neither. The question "what if I tucked my cassock into the waistband of my tights?" didn't seem to help.
He didn't much like the way we processed either.
anne
--------------------
‘I would have given the Church my head, my hand, my heart. She would not have them. She did not know what to do with them. She told me to go back and do crochet' Florence Nightingale
Posts: 338 | From: Devon | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by anne:
The question "what if I tucked my cassock into the waistband of my tights?" didn't seem to help.
Nonetheless, it's always a good thing to check for after using the ladies' room.
--------------------
Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Aelred of Rievaulx
Shipmate
# 16860
|
Posted
I have done the "not a stitch under my cassock apart from black socks and shoes" to show my disapprobation of a particularly nauseating grovelling 'civic' pseudo-service. Told the precentor as well - who seemed to think I was joking.
--------------------
In friendship are joined honor and charm, truth and joy, sweetness and good-will, affection and action. And all these take their beginning from Christ, advance through Christ, and are perfected in Christ.
Posts: 136 | From: English Midlands | Registered: Jan 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
And what about the hunting pink and breeches of the old-style squarson?
I wanted to post something similar in a different part of the ship under the post 'What we expect of our clergy?'
There are still some (young squarsons) about, and I know of at least two who wear clerical hunting gear, which is never pink but always black.
When the 19thC reforming Bishop Philpott of Exeter entered his diocese he wondered at why so many huntsmen that he passed in his carriage were in mourning. It was explained to him that that they were his clergy.
--------------------
sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Aelred of Rievaulx:
I have done the "not a stitch under my cassock apart from black socks and shoes" to show my disapprobation of a particularly nauseating grovelling 'civic' pseudo-service. Told the precentor as well - who seemed to think I was joking.
I am aware of one cleric who wore his Tilley shorts but with black knee-length stockings under his cassock in summer time, so as to minimize overheating. When I mentioned this at supper with a Pennsylvanian cathedral dignitary last November, she told me that a light sarong underneath the cassock is best for coolness. She added that one always wore black stockings and shoes, whatever the weather, and made deprecating comments with reference to one of her diocesan colleagues whose pink birkenstocks quite put congregants off their Advent devotions.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
made deprecating comments with reference to one of her diocesan colleagues whose pink birkenstocks quite put congregants off their Advent devotions.
Quite appropriate on the third Sunday I'd have thought.
--------------------
Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
PD
Shipmate
# 12436
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Aelred of Rievaulx:
I have done the "not a stitch under my cassock apart from black socks and shoes" to show my disapprobation of a particularly nauseating grovelling 'civic' pseudo-service. Told the precentor as well - who seemed to think I was joking.
When I was a reader there was one evening when it was hotter than 'the other place' and the rather statuesque brunette (of whom I was somewhat fod) who usually worked with me for Matins and Evensong matter of factly informed me that 'it is so damn hot this evening I've only got my undies on under this' (referring to her cassock) - that left me incapable of rational thought for at least half an hour. Thank God it was not my turn to preach.
PD
[ 07. January 2012, 14:50: Message edited by: PD ]
--------------------
Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
|
Posted
Has there been any word about Ordinariate Tat? I'm wondering specifically if Fr. Steenson will be allowed pontificals. I assume he will not be ordained a Catholic bishop, due to his marriage, but I do believe he was an Episcopal bishop, was he not? Also, if I recall correctly there are certain situations (such as abbots) where bishoply regalia may be worn. Am I recalling incorrectly that certain monsignors or something similar were afforded such tat as well?
[In any event, I still would like to see a mitred abbess put in charge of the ordinariates, but I suppose I must wait for that...] ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
Has there been any word about Ordinariate Tat? I'm wondering specifically if Fr. Steenson will be allowed pontificals. I assume he will not be ordained a Catholic bishop, due to his marriage, but I do believe he was an Episcopal bishop, was he not? Also, if I recall correctly there are certain situations (such as abbots) where bishoply regalia may be worn. Am I recalling incorrectly that certain monsignors or something similar were afforded such tat as well?
Yes, Fr. Steenson will be given the use of pontificals (and you can bet that very soon he will styled Monsignor Steenson), though he will remain a priest, just as Msgr. Keith Newton does in England.
Abbots are entitled to pontificals on certain occasions. Monsignori were previously entitled to wear pontificals and could offer quarterly Ponfifical High Masses, but these were abolished in 1968.
Posts: 1240 | From: U.S. | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
Has there been any word about Ordinariate Tat? I'm wondering specifically if Fr. Steenson will be allowed pontificals. I assume he will not be ordained a Catholic bishop, due to his marriage, but I do believe he was an Episcopal bishop, was he not? Also, if I recall correctly there are certain situations (such as abbots) where bishoply regalia may be worn. Am I recalling incorrectly that certain monsignors or something similar were afforded such tat as well?
[In any event, I still would like to see a mitred abbess put in charge of the ordinariates, but I suppose I must wait for that...]
Well, mitred abbesses have held ordinary jurisdiction within (barely) living times, so it is theoretically possible (and I have seen the abbatial prison at Las Huelgas, where errant priests were put in the hoosegow at the Abbess' ruling until 1821). But Matin L does not ask the important question: will the Ordinary wear apron and gaiters? And what will he be called? The Roman Your Excellency? Father Ordinary? In the Canadian parishes (as rumour suggests that they'll likely be housed with the Chair of S Peter in the short run), will he be a Your Lordship whenever he is north of the world's longest undefended border?
[ 08. January 2012, 04:18: Message edited by: Augustine the Aleut ]
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
|
Posted
Father Ordinary has a nice ring to it. Though I am unable to comment about its appropriateness in this case.
--------------------
Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
|
Posted
I suspect he'll be called "Monsignor", although "Vicar" has something patrimonial about it. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
--------------------
ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
Posts: 3923 | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
|
Posted
Does anybody know where I might be able to procure a smartish 12-branched candelabra reasonably inexpensively? Last Good Friday's effort of 15 candles stuck in sand was a little more than mildly disastrous.
Many thanks.
[ 08. January 2012, 14:21: Message edited by: Michael Astley ]
--------------------
If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
|
Posted
12 candles it was, not 15. The candles got too hot and all floppedby the end of the service. They looked like candy canes.
--------------------
If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Astley:
12 candles it was, not 15. The candles got too hot and all floppedby the end of the service. They looked like candy canes.
In the pre-candalabular interim, you might want to store the candles in the refrigerator or freezer before use-- not only would this retard the unfortunate candle flop syndrome, but Martha Stewart informs us that they last longer if so kept.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
|
Posted
Thank you, AtA. That might be something to bear in mind as a back-up plan. Fortunately, the batch of cheap candles from which came those used last Good Friday has been exhausted.
I should add that two candelabra of six each would also do quite nicely, and may even be preferable.
I'm thinking wrought iron standard ones at the moment.
--------------------
If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
|
Posted
So, anyone want to see some 17th and 19th century liturgical gloves?
The Worshipful Company of Glovers of London - The Glove Collection and its Catalogue
I came across these while doing some research into historical knitting (this is how we roll at Chex Mon Ewe). Unfortunately you have to keep scrolling to get to the good stuff, but it starts at Accession No.23401, which interestingly has no thumbs and two little slits in the index and middle fingers, possibly for anointing without your hands getting cold. Accession No. 23411 has two papal seals attached, too.
--------------------
Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Stranger in a strange land
Shipmate
# 11922
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
Has there been any word about Ordinariate Tat? I'm wondering specifically if Fr. Steenson will be allowed pontificals. I assume he will not be ordained a Catholic bishop, due to his marriage, but I do believe he was an Episcopal bishop, was he not? Also, if I recall correctly there are certain situations (such as abbots) where bishoply regalia may be worn. Am I recalling incorrectly that certain monsignors or something similar were afforded such tat as well?
[In any event, I still would like to see a mitred abbess put in charge of the ordinariates, but I suppose I must wait for that...]
Well, mitred abbesses have held ordinary jurisdiction within (barely) living times, so it is theoretically possible (and I have seen the abbatial prison at Las Huelgas, where errant priests were put in the hoosegow at the Abbess' ruling until 1821). But Matin L does not ask the important question: will the Ordinary wear apron and gaiters? And what will he be called? The Roman Your Excellency? Father Ordinary? In the Canadian parishes (as rumour suggests that they'll likely be housed with the Chair of S Peter in the short run), will he be a Your Lordship whenever he is north of the world's longest undefended border?
IIRC the Apostolic Constitution requires that the Ordinary be in Priestly orders so no immediate prospect of having a lady in charge. Not that such an eventuality would be a problem for most of us.
Regarding tat, the Ordinary will be entitled to pontificals and all former anglican bishops can petition the Holy See to use them. None of the English bishops have done so, as far as I am aware.
Posts: 608 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
CL
Shipmate
# 16145
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stranger in a strange land:
Regarding tat, the Ordinary will be entitled to pontificals and all former anglican bishops can petition the Holy See to use them. None of the English bishops have done so, as far as I am aware.
Edwin Barnes, quondam bishop of Richborough elaborated on this recently:
quote:
That Mgr Newton does so and the rest of us do not is simply because we want his office as Ordinary to be apparent – it has nothing to do with his being a Msgr, everything to do with being our Ordinary. I suspect too that he did not ask, but was told, what he ought to wear.
Things are made more interesting now by the reception into the Ordinariate last Saturday in Portsmouth of Robert Mercer CR, quondam bishop of Matabeleland and latterly Metropolitan of the Anglican Catholic Church of Canada (TAC). He is a monk thus eligible not only to be priested but also consecrated bishop, though given he is past the normal age of retirement for a Catholic bishop it may not be seen as feasible.
--------------------
"Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ." - Athanasius of Alexandria
Posts: 647 | From: Ireland | Registered: Jan 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
|
Posted
At a slight tangent, can he stay in CR even though he's joined the Ordinariate, then? Or is he transferring to another order in the RCC?
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
At a slight tangent, can he stay in CR even though he's joined the Ordinariate, then? Or is he transferring to another order in the RCC?
He will have to apply to the CR or any other religious community that he may wish to join. Of course, while respecting his great accomplishments and leadership, the Congregation of the Resurrection would not view such an application as "staying in the CR," but joining it for the first time. The Anglican Community of the Resurrection is a somewhat different type of body, English in origin and one in which solemnn religious vows are not taken. The Catholic Congregation of the Resurrection is Polish in origin and takes solemn vows.
Posts: 1240 | From: U.S. | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ceremoniar:
The Anglican Community of the Resurrection is a somewhat different type of body, English in origin and one in which solemnn religious vows are not taken.
CR (the Anglican one) states on its website quote:
Members of religious communities normally make vows for life. Popular belief assumes them to be Poverty, Chastity and Obedience: those vows became popular in the Middle Ages, but in common with the Benedictine tradition we in CR make the more traditional vows of Stability, Obedience and Conversion of Life.
Seem solemn enough for me, and presumably the members of CR. There have been precedents (well, one, AFAIK) of members of the Community crossing the Tiber and hoping to remain as members, but it has not proved practical. I can't see that this would be, either, especially as +Robert has lived apart from the community for many years.
--------------------
Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Pancho
Shipmate
# 13533
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Seem solemn enough for me, and presumably the members of CR.
"Solemn vow" is a technical term under Canon Law. Is there something equivalent in the Church of England?
--------------------
“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places and calling to their playmates, ‘We piped to you, and you did not dance;
we wailed, and you did not mourn.’"
Posts: 1988 | From: Alta California | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
CL
Shipmate
# 16145
|
Posted
Bishop Mercer has lived in the Mirfield community for several years now since his retirement as Metropolitan of the ACCC. He intends to continue living there, though obviously he will no longer commune.
--------------------
"Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ." - Athanasius of Alexandria
Posts: 647 | From: Ireland | Registered: Jan 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Arch Anglo Catholic
Shipmate
# 15181
|
Posted
@Pancho
Anglican as well as RC monastic Orders have both simple and solemn vows or professions. The terms 'Simple' and 'Solemn' do not relate to the importance of the vow (a vow is a vow is a vow!) but rather to the extent and duration.
Many Orders, once an aspirant has completed a novitiate, will allow the asirant to make Simple Vows which have a timed duration, often 3 years. At the end of that period, the monastic will then, if they wish to, take Solemn vows, which are binding for the rest of natural life.
Hopefully that is at least vaguely coherent!
Posts: 144 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Sep 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CL:
Bishop Mercer has lived in the Mirfield community for several years now since his retirement as Metropolitan of the ACCC. He intends to continue living there, though obviously he will no longer commune.
This is interesting given the fact that he left the "official" Anglican Communion, no? It also seems difficult to envision his staying there as an RC. I guess given his age...
Posts: 1240 | From: U.S. | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Man with a Stick
Shipmate
# 12664
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CL:
quote:
Originally posted by Stranger in a strange land:
Regarding tat, the Ordinary will be entitled to pontificals and all former anglican bishops can petition the Holy See to use them. None of the English bishops have done so, as far as I am aware.
Edwin Barnes, quondam bishop of Richborough elaborated on this recently:
quote:
That Mgr Newton does so and the rest of us do not is simply because we want his office as Ordinary to be apparent – it has nothing to do with his being a Msgr, everything to do with being our Ordinary. I suspect too that he did not ask, but was told, what he ought to wear.
Things are made more interesting now by the reception into the Ordinariate last Saturday in Portsmouth of Robert Mercer CR, quondam bishop of Matabeleland and latterly Metropolitan of the Anglican Catholic Church of Canada (TAC). He is a monk thus eligible not only to be priested but also consecrated bishop, though given he is past the normal age of retirement for a Catholic bishop it may not be seen as feasible.
This makes sense. Fr Barnes has worn the Mitre at least once since his re-ordination - when he was acting in place of the Ordinary.
Posts: 335 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mr. Rob
Shipmate
# 5823
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pancho:
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Seem solemn enough for me, and presumably the members of CR.
"Solemn vow" is a technical term under Canon Law. Is there something equivalent in the Church of England?
Anglicans religious communities tend to use the terms 'temporary' vows for 'simple' vows, and 'life' vows for solemn vows. In the canon law of various Anglican national churches, if there is legislation on the subject of vows at all, those would be the terms generally in use.
Posts: 862 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Rob:
Anglicans religious communities tend to use the terms 'temporary' vows for 'simple' vows, and 'life' vows for solemn vows. In the canon law of various Anglican national churches, if there is legislation on the subject of vows at all, those would be the terms generally in use.
In a handbook for Anglican religious orders in the Americas, several names for vows are acknowledged:
At the close of the period spent in first vows or under promise, religious, if accepted by the community and wishing to do so, profess life vows, according to the provisions of the Constitution. Life vows (also called second, perpetual, final or solemn vows) are professed with the intention of lifelong obligation. (para. 308)
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
seasick
...over the edge
# 48
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by regulator reverend:
I will be ordained later this year, and I am looking for a cassock. I have a double-breasted Sarum style cassock, but would like to get a single breasted one for my ordination. Is it OK to wear a surplice with a single breated cassock in CofE? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
--------------------
We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Printer-friendly view
