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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: The Tatler
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Laud-able
Ship's Ancient
# 9896
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Posted
Oscar:
You might begin with Luzar Vestments. They carry stocks of new and second-hand vestments, and will make to order: they created a splendid high mass set for us with great care and attention to detail, using the specified Perkins fabrics and trim.
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'. . . "Non Angli, sed Angeli" "not Angels, but Anglicans"', Sellar, W C, and Yeatman, R J, 1066 and All That, London, 1930, p. 6.
Posts: 279 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Jul 2005
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
Another day, another box tucked away in the choir vestry and.....
We now have an additional 4 chasubles to ones already discovered! This seems to be a set, as they are very similar in style (green, purple, red and gold). Quite where we go from here is another matter.
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Are they attractive? There's no point in getting your priest to dress up in a chasuble that is tacky, or torn, or spotted with mould, or just plain ugly. It's better just to have an alb and decent stole, than wear a hideous chasuble just because it's a chasuble.
Why were they hidden away in the first place? And what is the view of your current priest?
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Are they attractive?
The 4 latest discoveries are average (IMHO). Apart from the creases they are in pretty good condition. The first green one we found was made especially for the church and paid for by a parishioner who is still living. This one is very nice. The dark blue one is extremely attractive and the plain linen one is - well - plain!
But on the whole, with a little bit of attention they would be very usable if we decided to keep them.
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Why were they hidden away in the first place?
I'm trying to find out. Our present sacristan has been at the church for some 23 years and says she can't ever remember seeing them. Having said that, there is some evidence that they were placed in their present boxes in the mid 90's. The next task is to interrogate(!) the older members of the congregation about what they remember.
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
And what is the view of your current priest?
C'est moi
I think I can safely say that the current priest has never worn chasubles before but would not be completely averse to the possibility.....
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Chapelhead
I am
# 21
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Posted
I ought to know this sort of thing by now, but could the good Ecclers shed some further light on the subject of chasubles, in particular fiddleback vs gothic?
What, if anything is the significance of the style? Is there a Roman/English/Sarum split? Pre or post Vatican II? High or higher?
Should the shape of you chasuble relate to the shape of your windows?
If you were equipping a church from scratch, which would you buy?
Which make the baby Jesus cry?
What gives, chasuble-wise?
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At times like this I find myself thinking, what would the Amish do?
Posts: 9123 | From: Near where I was before. | Registered: Aug 2001
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
Fiddlebacks are strictly Anglo-Catholic IME, and really more like advanced A-C. Gothic chazzies are otherwise the norm most places. Aren't Sarum style places most prone to employ gothic chazzies?
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
fiddleback vs gothic?
What, if anything is the significance of the style? Is there a Roman/English/Sarum split?
Yes.
quote:
Pre or post Vatican II?
Yes. (Fiddleback pre)
quote:
High or higher?
In the Anglican context, the Roman provenance of the fiddleback has generally meant that the higher/more papalist a church, the more likely the chance of a fiddleback. But these days, not so much (sometimes churches close, or offload their old vestments to parishes which might be in need of chasubles, and they take what's going) So I've seen fiddlebacks in quite 'low' churches.
quote:
Should the shape of you chasuble relate to the shape of your windows?
Probably
quote:
If you were equipping a church from scratch, which would you buy?
Personally, simple and full 'gothic' shapes. The less ornamentation the better.
quote:
Which make the baby Jesus cry?
Need you ask?
quote:
What gives, chasuble-wise?
The simple answer is probably, if westward-facing, fiddlebacks look daft. If eastward, it depends on their design and quality.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
Forgive an ignorant and rather low church question:
I have a colleague who is an Anglican clergyman who likes to wear surplice (long) and scarf when celebrating Holy Communion. As a former military chaplain his scarf has medal ribbons on it (I remember many such scarves in my youth when a WW2 clergy was common). Are there still evngelical/low church CofE churches where this would be thororoughly acceptable still? (I understand many do not wear robes any more).
Similarly, the same person has a penchant for his gown (bit like Wesley) and is sometimes invited to preach in Free Churches. Would it be accpetable to rock up, don the gown and preach? He might get away with robing as he was a guest Anglican. (I know of one cleric who wore surplice sarf and hood when preaching on the local methodist circuit and was, indeed, encouraged to do so).
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
There are quite a few Evangelical Anglican places where the celebrant robes for communion, even if they don't robe for any other services. As far as the medal ribbons are concerned, I can't see why there would be any objection. Of course a lot depends on whether they are pinned on in which they can be removed if anyone really objects, or whether they are sewed on to the scarf, in which case there's nothing anyone can do about it.
As far as preaching in free churches is concerend, I suppose it depends what is normally done. If it's the custom to wear a gown (or even cassock-alb in the case of some Methodist and URC places) then go for it. If they're not in the custom of wearing robes of any kind, then he'd look extremely out of place.
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
Forgive an ignorant and rather low church question:
I have a colleague who is an Anglican clergyman who likes to wear surplice (long) and scarf when celebrating Holy Communion. As a former military chaplain his scarf has medal ribbons on it (I remember many such scarves in my youth when a WW2 clergy was common). Are there still evngelical/low church CofE churches where this would be thororoughly acceptable still? (I understand many do not wear robes any more).
Similarly, the same person has a penchant for his gown (bit like Wesley) and is sometimes invited to preach in Free Churches. Would it be accpetable to rock up, don the gown and preach? He might get away with robing as he was a guest Anglican. (I know of one cleric who wore surplice sarf and hood when preaching on the local methodist circuit and was, indeed, encouraged to do so).
In Canada they would be rare, but it could happen easiliy on Remembrance Day Sunday or, the Atlantic Provinces, on Battle of the Atlantic Sunday. Medals, being a personal distinction, would be inappropriate for celebrating, and he should know better, but even knowledgeable pew sitters give great allowances for veterans.
The gowning for preaching practice is so ancient that, even in parishes of Down and Connor, and Derry and Raphoe in the Church of Ireland in the 1970s, I have never seen it. I would be tempted to place this practice along with bishops not powdering their wigs in Lent, or replacing your silver shoe buckles with pewter in Passion Week.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
An additolnal question (if I may?). If a clergyman is of the school that wears a clerical collar pretty much all the time, what if he/she attends an evangelical church in the congregation where this is worn rarely even by the person officiating? Presumably, as an item of personal attire this is the choice of the individual, rather like choosing the colour of one's own tie and it would be bad form for someone to comment about it?
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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Episcoterian
Shipmate
# 13185
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Posted
I attend to a suit-and-tie Presby shack. On more than one occasion a Methodist minister came over to concelebrate a wedding, wearing clericals. Some folks asked our minister about it later, but in a truly inquiring, non-accusatory manner. No harm done.
It certainly would be rude go up to the visiting minister and say "But we don't do that here, y'know?", though.
Edit to add: I do believe robing for a non-robing church or vice-versa would be a no-no, though...
[ 11. July 2010, 13:23: Message edited by: Episcoterian ]
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"We cannot let individualism make corporate worship impossible!" (iMonk)
I'm on Facebook too!
Posts: 286 | From: Franca, SP, Brazil | Registered: Nov 2007
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
An additolnal question (if I may?). If a clergyman is of the school that wears a clerical collar pretty much all the time, what if he/she attends an evangelical church in the congregation where this is worn rarely even by the person officiating? Presumably, as an item of personal attire this is the choice of the individual, rather like choosing the colour of one's own tie and it would be bad form for someone to comment about it?
I went to preach (as part of a week of prayer for Christian Unity pulpit exchange) in a local baptist church (I'm a Methodist minister). I would normally robe to conduct Methodist services. Going there, I wore clericals but not robes. That to me seemed an appropriate balance between being who I am and being respectful of the traditions of my hosts. The only comment was from a young girl (guess about 6) who asked what that was around my neck. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
My question related to a minister who always wears a clerical collar as everyday attire (and claims never to have owned a tie since his ordination) sitting in the congregation of a non clericals wearing church as a visitng member of the congregation. For example being in London and attending St Helens Bishopsgate out of choice. I did certainly know of an evangelical Anglican cleric (admittedly elderly) who ALWAYS wore a collar and dark suit every day till his recent death at 99. He would sit in the congregation of local pentecostal church likr that. Apparetly he was usually invited up to the platform.
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
A question on cassocks: what fabric do others, from experience, find best for keeping cool during the warmer months? It turns out a black, Russian cassock of wool isn't designed for a British summer. Who'd a thunk it?
Are cotton or viscose about the same or does one have any advantage over the other?
Ta muchly.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Presumably you could use linen ? Pure, natural etc.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
That is actualy one of the options. With the company I use for these things, there are various grades of wool, then cotton, viscose, and linen. I suppose I want to balance the fabric's quality of keeping cool with opaqueness as well and I suspect linen might be a bit too see-through. Then again, the fact that they sell them means it perhaps isn't as much of a problem as I might have thought. I wonder whether they'll send me a swatch.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Astley:
A question on cassocks: what fabric do others, from experience, find best for keeping cool during the warmer months? It turns out a black, Russian cassock of wool isn't designed for a British summer. Who'd a thunk it?
I think the answer is 'move to Ireland'. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
I would tend towards towards a poly-cotton blend that is heavy on the cotton. It breaths well, but due to the presence of some "poly" is easier keep presentable. Some sort of viscose mix is good alternative as it has similar washing and wearing characteristics. The main thing is that anything you get for summer needs to be readily washable.
PD
[ 12. July 2010, 00:17: Message edited by: PD ]
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Astley:
A question on cassocks: what fabric do others, from experience, find best for keeping cool during the warmer months? It turns out a black, Russian cassock of wool isn't designed for a British summer. Who'd a thunk it?
I think the answer is 'move to Ireland'.
Why on earth would anybody want to do a thing like that? ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
I would tend towards towards a poly-cotton blend that is heavy on the cotton. It breaths well, but due to the presence of some "poly" is easier keep presentable. Some sort of viscose mix is good alternative as it has similar washing and wearing characteristics. The main thing is that anything you get for summer needs to be readily washable.
Thank you for this, PD. A blend with polyester isn't an option for me. You see, the order has been placed. I may at this point still be able to ask for a different fabric from that originally ordered but polyester or any poly blend isn't among what's available. My parish priest's everyday cassock is pure cotton, in dark grey, and it always looks presentable so I'm not too worried about that. Mine will likely be viscose, and certainly light grey, because I simply can't bear the heat anymore. I may have grown up in the tropics but it seems I'm designed for the usual climate of the land of my birth. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Astley:
Why on earth would anybody want to do a thing like that?
One should be concerned with such an unevangelistic comment-- an entire island to be redeemed to the Orthodox Church and Michael Astley unprepared to take up the martyr's crown.
However, such a move would have the result of making his Russian woolie cassock an eminently practical garment. Indeed, he would soon be thinking that a tailor could easily suit him up with a briarproof tweed riassa to help him on his rounds through Termonfeckin and such places to chant the Akathist of Thanksgiving.
I wonder, however, if a 100-weight merino fabric would not provide him with a cassock which would be cool but presentable on the hottest day, such happens in England every 17th year. I had a Tshirt of this cloth while hiking through the sunbaked campos of Catalonia and Aragon last September and it worked quite well.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
Transferred from another thread:
quote:
Originally posted by RCD:
I'm trying to find pictures of the Almuce and I ran across this:
http://thefarsight2.blogspot.com/2008/12/this-just-in.html
I was curious - is the striped fur an almuce, or just a fur covered cape? Initially I was thinking it was just like the "cappa magna" with a fur covered hood/chaperon, but then I saw this picture:
http://www.abbaye-de-leffe.be/SITES/abbaye-de-leffe.be/IMG/jpg/107.jpg
of a Norbertine, which made me wonder if those canons were also wearing an almuce.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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MrsDoyle
Shipmate
# 13579
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Posted
I can highly recommend the book "People, Places and Things" by the Society of Mary for 124 pages of truly high church camp "tat" (it's subtitle is a "light hearted celebration"!) Not available on Amazon but published by and available from the Society http://www.societyofmary.net/ppt.htm
Posts: 343 | From: Manchester.England | Registered: Apr 2008
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MrsDoyle
Shipmate
# 13579
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Posted
The gallary section of the above will give you a fair idea I think.
Posts: 343 | From: Manchester.England | Registered: Apr 2008
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+Chad
Staffordshire Lad
# 5645
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Posted
On the "Random" thread Anglican_Brat asked:
quote:
In Anglican liturgical thinking, what accounts for the difference in colour in the cassocks for servers? In some parishes, servers wear black cassocks, and in others, they wear red cassocks.
Angloid rightly pointed out the proscription against Royal Scarlet:
quote:
If they are willing to risk summary execution and/or time spent at Her Majesty's Pleasure in the Tower of London, they will wear scarlet cassocks. I don't know the standard punishment for the outfitters who supply such things.
and leo replied:
quote:
I think red is for a royal foundation, blue for a minster foundation, black for everyone else.
I didn't think there were rules for servers' cassocks. Just black, as ministers of the altar.
(Red being an affectation along with bum-freezer lace cottas.)
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Chad (The + is silent)
Where there is tea there is hope.
Posts: 2698 | From: The Backbone of England | Registered: Mar 2004
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by +Chad:
(Red being an affectation along with bum-freezer lace cottas.)
Both of which were in evidence, if I observed correctly, at All Saints North St, York, last night. But I may be wrong- didn't get a very good look because I left after the confession with a strong feeling that this really wasn't going to be my sort of thing at all.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
Transferred from another thread, with particularly good timing ![[Biased]](wink.gif) :
quote:
Originally posted by Dallasverger:
Recently, our parish priests have ordered Emerald Green Cassocks. Does anybody know the litergical reason?
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
Who are the cassocks for? Clergy, choir, servers or someone else? What were you using previously?
[ 25. August 2010, 15:55: Message edited by: Spike ]
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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kingsfold
Shipmate
# 1726
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Posted
As long as they're also getting red, white/gold, and purple/blue cassocks for the other liturgical seasons (pink are optional)
Posts: 4473 | From: land of the wee midgie | Registered: Nov 2001
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by follower:
When is it ok for a chior to wear red instead of the usual blue (I'm talking about non-catheadral chiors)
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
'Usual blue'? I've seen plenty of black, maroon and outright red, not a lot of blue...
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
Our choir has blue cassocks, but I don't think that's common over here. Usually black or red.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Edgeman
Shipmate
# 12867
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Posted
We have blue cassocks, but they're for the servers. We only wear them during lent and advent, and formerly, for feasts of Our Lady. We also have the usual red, which are only worn during Christmas and Easter seasons, and for other important feasts.
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http://sacristyxrat.tumblr.com/
Posts: 1420 | From: Philadelphia Penns. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Loveheart
Blue-scarved menace
# 12249
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Posted
Our choir wears red, although I couldn't tell you what shade of red it is. The church we visit when we're on holiday - their choir wears blue.
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You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty. Mahatma Gandhi
Posts: 3638 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2007
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by +Chad:
(Red being an affectation along with bum-freezer lace cottas.)
We have red cassocks most of the year because a local church was getting rid of theirs for cassock-albs and they were too good to bin. The black ones are used for Advent and Lent. Now that's an affectation.
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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+Chad
Staffordshire Lad
# 5645
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Posted
I know a place where black cassocks were the general rule and red ones for festivals.
Are red cassocks for servers originally a GSS thing?
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Chad (The + is silent)
Where there is tea there is hope.
Posts: 2698 | From: The Backbone of England | Registered: Mar 2004
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
I've been a GSS member for over 40 years and have never heard any such notion about red cassocks.
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
Yes, I'm certainly not aware of it being related to GSS or, indeed, to anything else. It's just we have two sets of cassocks and the red ones are more "fun" (personally, I can't stand them and feel like a seven year old altar boy in one but that's by the by).
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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+Chad
Staffordshire Lad
# 5645
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Posted
One of the mysteries of the faith, then.
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Chad (The + is silent)
Where there is tea there is hope.
Posts: 2698 | From: The Backbone of England | Registered: Mar 2004
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
Red cassocks for servers has a Baldeschi look to it, if you ask me. Personally I prefer cassocks to be black, double-breasted, and lightweight. Outside of the UK, the main reason for avoiding scarlet cassocks is that they are attention whores unless buried under an 'old English' surplice.
Growing up I remember one church that used Maroon cassocks, which were rather nice, and Lincoln Cathedral used a 'powder blue' which I was never quite sure about. A couple of local churches also used dark blue for the choir which looked remarkably nice. The only place I have ever seen green cassocks is Salisbury Cathedral.
PD
[ 27. August 2010, 15:19: Message edited by: PD ]
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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Episcoterian
Shipmate
# 13185
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Posted
Quick one, as I hope to be getting to Seminary by February next year:
What's the general opinion on the use of the "seminarian collar"? (Since I'm Presbyterian, I can possibly get away with a collar, but a cassock is right out...)
Is it just your plain old clerical collar with a narrow vertical black line in the middle, or is there something else to it?
Do you have any pictures of it being used? (Google hasn't been my friend over this).
Thanks!
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"We cannot let individualism make corporate worship impossible!" (iMonk)
I'm on Facebook too!
Posts: 286 | From: Franca, SP, Brazil | Registered: Nov 2007
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
This question pops up from time to time. Perhaps one of those old threads will be useful.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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hereweare
Shipmate
# 15567
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Laud-able:
Oscar:
You might begin with Luzar Vestments. They carry stocks of new and second-hand vestments, and will make to order: they created a splendid high mass set for us with great care and attention to detail, using the specified Perkins fabrics and trim.
but beware the price!!!!
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Come home to Rome this Christmas!
Posts: 206 | From: here | Registered: Mar 2010
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Laud-able
Ship's Ancient
# 9896
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Posted
Hereweare:
Regarding Luzar and your warning ‘but beware the price!!!!’, I had not realized that they are thought to be expensive.
We had had a quotation for the same fabrics from Church Stores in Sydney which did seem to be dear, and so we were very happy when the Luzar quotation came in at about a third less.
I was apprehensive about having to see the job through with a set of sketches sent by post (supplemented by email and telephone), but every item was made exactly as requested, with the repeats of the two damasks that were used being in perfect alignment across every piece.
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'. . . "Non Angli, sed Angeli" "not Angels, but Anglicans"', Sellar, W C, and Yeatman, R J, 1066 and All That, London, 1930, p. 6.
Posts: 279 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Jul 2005
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
** bump **
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
Originally posted on another thread:
quote:
Originally posted by Clerach:
A simple question really. THough I am sure it could be in the dead horse section...
Surplice (Round Yoked):
How Long from the hem of the cassock?
How long or short from the cuff?
Pointed or Rounded or Belled if that is still something different?
Gathering F M or hardly?
And preferred maker?
Thin or thick yoke?
Ideas or recommendations in general?
peace,
clerach
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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FatherRobLyons
Shipmate
# 14622
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Posted
Welcome, Clerach,
Writing from the USA, I prefer the poly-cotton Old English Surplice from C.M. Almy. It has a thick (though single layer) yoke. I wear it long enough to have about 2 inches of cassock exposed at the bottom. The sleeves are very full and rounded. I really prefer that look.
I have had a Wippell surplice before, it was, as I recall, a viscose affair that was quite nice, though hideously warm. It had pointed sleeves and a narrow yoke. My problem with it was that the viscose wasn't all that white.
Rob+
Posts: 321 | From: Bargersville, IN | Registered: Mar 2009
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
We wear ours 'Cathedral length' which is long (about 3 or 4 inches of cassock showing below). Short hem (2 inches) and rounded top with full gathers (some of our less well-made surplices have a sparse gathering which looks untidy by comparison - they have been consigned to the 'if we really need them for occasional visitors' category).
The ones with square necks and of short length we call cottas. I've not seen those worn at our church for a long time.
The sleeves of our surplices are very long and look like angel wings which can be quite impractical if you want to do anything other than stand there holding a book (eg. ringing handbells).
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
I like the look of those long surplices with round yoke and much gathering around them. They can have either bell or pointed sleeves which ought (IMHO) also to be long.
There is also the Warham Guild surplice but I'm not sure how this might differ from the Old English. Can anyone enlighten?
Traditionally, I believe that surplices were meant to be long. In the decadant CofE of the 18thC, it became customary to drop the cassock and put the surplice on over street clothes. As the clergy tended to wear black with white neck cloth and the surplice was long, the lack of cassock wouldn't really have been noticeable. It was removed after the service proper, and the gown put on for the sermon. The gown seemed to be the dress for clergy not officating but 'in choir' as it were.
I have even known clergy who have used the long surplice to double up as a sort of alb.
A friend used to descirbe someone's churchmanship, if traditionally Anglican, rather High but not Anglo-Catholic as 'oh, he/she is Old English Fully Gathered.'
J and M Sewing, Newcastle, UK make excellent ones at modest cost. the ladies there are also delighfully helpful and friendly.
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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WearyPilgrim
Shipmate
# 14593
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Posted
Back to the discussion of gowns and stoles, if I may: the custom of wearing a stole with the Geneva gown began here in the States sometime in the Fifties. It became particularly ubiquitous among Methodist clergy, but it also saw it occasionally in Congregational/UCC circles. In more recent years, I have occasionally seen the combination worn by Presbyterians and even some Baptists. The gown has been somewhat displaced by the cassock-alb, especially among Methodists, but it remains the norm in the other denominational bodies. As a Congregationalist, it makes me cringe to see a Congregational minister wear an alb; in my view, it has no place in the Reformed tradition. I even have reservations about the stole. It has always been my understanding that it has sacerdotal connotations that run counter to the Reformed concept of ordination. Does anyone out there care to comment on this?
Posts: 383 | From: Sedgwick, Maine USA | Registered: Feb 2009
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