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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: The Tatler
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Qoheleth.
Semi-Sagacious One
# 9265
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Posted
I wonder who might choose to wear a collar and chain? Unless we're deeply into po-mo irony, it's a new one on me.
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The Benedictine Community at Alton Abbey offers a friendly, personal service for the exclusive supply of Rosa Mystica incense.
Posts: 2532 | From: the radiator of life | Registered: Apr 2005
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
I've never heard of such a thing and certainly not encountered anyone wearing one. I suppose we shouldn't ask what you were looking for when you chanced upon it... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
The shirt also has white French cuffs. That's something I've never noticed with clerical shirts before.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Quam Dilecta:
Although I am late in responding, I believe that non-papal white cassocks are a concession to tropical heat and humidity. The first one I encountered was worn by a priest who had recently returned from service as a chaplain in Vietnam.
On a recent retreat at a Benedictine abbey in Indiana I noticed one member of the community in a white habit, which looked quite striking with his very black skin -- he was visiting (or possibly temporarily assigned) from Togo, so a tropical version of the habit.
Also visiting was a Norbertine brother (I kinow not from where) whose cassock, scapular and mozetta(?) were not-quite-white, sort of ivory.
It made for interesting contrasts amongst all the OSB black.
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You can't retire from a calling.
Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
What is it with all these shirt lifters?
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
The shirt also has white French cuffs. That's something I've never noticed with clerical shirts before.
I have a couple of blue-purple clergy shirts with white French cuffs. I tend to associate the white cuff routine with MDS shirts, but I am sure other makers do it. However, the rest of the French cuffed formal shirts I have are collarless and white. I rarely wear them as I do not have many formal occasions which require civil dress rather the cassock, etc.. That said, one of these days I will finally buy a clerical frock coat as I am not really a big cassock wearer. Too dang hot around here.
PD
[ 18. August 2011, 01:14: Message edited by: PD ]
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
Now you have me trying to picture clerical cufflinks. I suppose that could be a whole thread by itself.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Edgeman
Shipmate
# 12867
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
I always associated red cassocks and cottas with a certain species of MOTR Episcopal Church. It is the sort of place where you know someone is going to be wearing white gloves and processing the cross elbow out.
PD
Oh, you mean like
This? ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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http://sacristyxrat.tumblr.com/
Posts: 1420 | From: Philadelphia Penns. | Registered: Jul 2007
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by St.Silas the carter:
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
I always associated red cassocks and cottas with a certain species of MOTR Episcopal Church. It is the sort of place where you know someone is going to be wearing white gloves and processing the cross elbow out.
PD
Oh, you mean like
This?
Er - not quite!
PD
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
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Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
Now you have me trying to picture clerical cufflinks. I suppose that could be a whole thread by itself.
I have a set where the "button end" is a rugby ball with GUINNESS inscribed on it. Saves a lot of trouble at Synods as everyone knows my shout at the bar.
PD
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by St.Silas the carter:
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
I always associated red cassocks and cottas with a certain species of MOTR Episcopal Church. It is the sort of place where you know someone is going to be wearing white gloves and processing the cross elbow out.
PD
Oh, you mean like
This?
Ah, healthy modernism!
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Qoheleth.:
I wonder who might choose to wear a collar and chain? Unless we're deeply into po-mo irony, it's a new one on me.
Is this some sort of S & M? If so, I do not like it.
Too Much Information, Leo, even if your confessor would approve.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Qoheleth.:
I wonder who might choose to wear a collar and chain? Unless we're deeply into po-mo irony, it's a new one on me.
Is this some sort of S & M? If so, I do not like it.
Well it's definitely not M & S ...
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Qoheleth.
Semi-Sagacious One
# 9265
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Qoheleth.:
I wonder who might choose to wear a collar and chain? Unless we're deeply into po-mo irony, it's a new one on me.
Is this some sort of S & M? If so, I do not like it.
Well it's definitely not M & S ...
I'm thinking bling for a prosperity-gospel preacher.
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The Benedictine Community at Alton Abbey offers a friendly, personal service for the exclusive supply of Rosa Mystica incense.
Posts: 2532 | From: the radiator of life | Registered: Apr 2005
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Daykin
Apprentice
# 16514
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Posted
Would the pom pom of this biretta tell us the wearer is a monsignor or a canon or a bishop?
Posts: 46 | Registered: Jul 2011
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Daykin:
Would the pom pom of this biretta tell us the wearer is a monsignor or a canon or a bishop?
Or is it a signifier of an entirely different kind?
[ 18. August 2011, 21:45: Message edited by: Amos ]
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
I would see that and think 'Canon.' However, I think the coloured pom-pon actually requires some sort of privilege to be granted by the bishop, which I suspect most bishops would grant!
Of course, being of that outlook I would prefer to see Canons decently outfitted with grey silk Almuces
PD
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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Daykin
Apprentice
# 16514
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Posted
Thanks PD.
This is the page with the birrettas.
Any one know which is for whom? The site doesn't name them as 'rank' specific.
The last one does not seem to have a pom pom.
PD - may I ask - what is a grey almuce? ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 46 | Registered: Jul 2011
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The Man with a Stick
Shipmate
# 12664
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Posted
I think (and this is a basic summation)...
Black - Standard
Purple pom-pom - Canon (anglican) or Mgr (catholic)
Entirely Purple - Bishop
Scarlet - Cardinal (catholic). Not really used in Anglican circles, but I know of an AC priest who is Chaplain to HM who has been seen in one on occasion. I also know of a "Cardinal Rector" who has been known to wear one. I think 'local custom' would be pleaded.
Posts: 335 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Man with a Stick:
I think (and this is a basic summation)...
Black - Standard
Purple pom-pom - Canon (anglican) or Mgr (catholic)
Entirely Purple - Bishop
Scarlet - Cardinal (catholic). Not really used in Anglican circles, but I know of an AC priest who is Chaplain to HM who has been seen in one on occasion. I also know of a "Cardinal Rector" who has been known to wear one. I think 'local custom' would be pleaded.
I, too, have known "cardinal rector's" to wear red pom-poms, but the excuse had something to do with having a doctorate or some such thing.
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Comper's Child:
quote:
Originally posted by The Man with a Stick:
I think (and this is a basic summation)...
Black - Standard
Purple pom-pom - Canon (anglican) or Mgr (catholic)
Entirely Purple - Bishop
Scarlet - Cardinal (catholic). Not really used in Anglican circles, but I know of an AC priest who is Chaplain to HM who has been seen in one on occasion. I also know of a "Cardinal Rector" who has been known to wear one. I think 'local custom' would be pleaded.
I, too, have known "cardinal rector's" to wear red pom-poms, but the excuse had something to do with having a doctorate or some such thing.
In an Anglican context, if I recall correctly, I have seen Desmond Tutu in both scarlet red and bishop's purple. I always just assumed he used the red because of being an archbishop.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
[QUOTE]In an Anglican context, if I recall correctly, I have seen Desmond Tutu in both scarlet red and bishop's purple. I always just assumed he used the red because of being an archbishop.
That is something you occasional find in Africa. I would imagine scarlet biretta is to go with his chimere as Episcopal purple and doctoral scarlet clash horribly.
I have a purple skullcap and a purple biretta which I wear at Low Mass when I need to make it clear there us a bishop on deck, but they do not get much use. I am not really one for wearing a hat in church, and am very glad that the mitre spends most of its time on the altar folded flat when I celebrate a Pontifical Mass.
PD
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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Quam Dilecta
Shipmate
# 12541
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Posted
Servers who know what to do with birettas must be in short supply these days.
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Blessd are they that dwell in thy house
Posts: 406 | From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA | Registered: Apr 2007
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
A nice pair of masonic cufflinks on the clerical shirt is often in evidence
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
A nice pair of masonic cufflinks on the clerical shirt is often in evidence
![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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Daykin
Apprentice
# 16514
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Quam Dilecta:
Servers who know what to do with birettas must be in short supply these days.
How is the biretta worn - on the head, of course!
But in what directions are the fins, and is there ever any variance in custom on this one?
Posts: 46 | Registered: Jul 2011
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otyetsfoma
Shipmate
# 12898
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Posted
The single fin is to the right, so you can lift it with your right hand. (The sole purpose in wearing it is to be seen ceremoniously taking it off.) The ignorant, especially stage and screen costumiers, prefer it with the finless corner in front, because it looks nicer that way.
My reply on this question is not to be interpreted as meaning I would ever wear one now, or even in my Anglican days.
Posts: 842 | From: Edgware UK | Registered: Aug 2007
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by otyetsfoma:
(The sole purpose in wearing it is to be seen ceremoniously taking it off.)
![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
That is my philosophy in wearing glasses, too.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Daykin
Apprentice
# 16514
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Man with a Stick:
I think (and this is a basic summation)...
Black - Standard
Purple pom-pom - Canon (anglican) or Mgr (catholic)
Entirely Purple - Bishop
Scarlet - Cardinal (catholic). Not really used in Anglican circles, but I know of an AC priest who is Chaplain to HM who has been seen in one on occasion. I also know of a "Cardinal Rector" who has been known to wear one. I think 'local custom' would be pleaded.
Can the pink pom pom on a black biretta be something other than a canon, for example, a bishop. Or is a bishop's biretta always red.
A few years ago I saw a priest (?) with quite a pink rather than a red pom pom. I wondered what his 'rank' was. Would the pink just be a shade of red - and so a canon.
I hope the question deosn't seem too fussy. It;s just one of those rather silly things I've always wanted the answer to.
Posts: 46 | Registered: Jul 2011
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Daykin:
quote:
Originally posted by The Man with a Stick:
I think (and this is a basic summation)...
Black - Standard
Purple pom-pom - Canon (anglican) or Mgr (catholic)
Entirely Purple - Bishop
Scarlet - Cardinal (catholic). Not really used in Anglican circles, but I know of an AC priest who is Chaplain to HM who has been seen in one on occasion. I also know of a "Cardinal Rector" who has been known to wear one. I think 'local custom' would be pleaded.
Can the pink pom pom on a black biretta be something other than a canon, for example, a bishop. Or is a bishop's biretta always red.
A few years ago I saw a priest (?) with quite a pink rather than a red pom pom. I wondered what his 'rank' was. Would the pink just be a shade of red - and so a canon.
I hope the question deosn't seem too fussy. It;s just one of those rather silly things I've always wanted the answer to.
It's pink because he's not 9ahem) ... not as other men
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Daykin
Apprentice
# 16514
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by Daykin:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Man with a Stick:
[qb]
A few years ago I saw a priest (?) with quite a pink rather than a red pom pom. I wondered what his 'rank' was. Would the pink just be a shade of red - and so a canon.
I hope the question deosn't seem too fussy. It;s just one of those rather silly things I've always wanted the answer to.
It's pink because he's not 9ahem) ... not as other men
Sorry, I'm not getting the nuance of that reply
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Posts: 46 | Registered: Jul 2011
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Up In Smoke
Shipmate
# 10971
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
It's pink because he's not 9ahem) ... not as other men
Well, actually, he is "as" a good many others of us men in holy orders are
(I once remarked that if all of "us" at the seminary I attended were to turn blue on the same day, it would appear that the campus was suddenly at sea. And that was in my Baptist days!)
Posts: 109 | From: The Left Coast | Registered: Feb 2006
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minstermusic
Shipmate
# 16462
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Daykin:
quote:
Originally posted by The Man with a Stick:
I think (and this is a basic summation)...
Black - Standard
Purple pom-pom - Canon (anglican) or Mgr (catholic)
Entirely Purple - Bishop
Scarlet - Cardinal (catholic). Not really used in Anglican circles, but I know of an AC priest who is Chaplain to HM who has been seen in one on occasion. I also know of a "Cardinal Rector" who has been known to wear one. I think 'local custom' would be pleaded.
Can the pink pom pom on a black biretta be something other than a canon, for example, a bishop. Or is a bishop's biretta always red.
A few years ago I saw a priest (?) with quite a pink rather than a red pom pom. I wondered what his 'rank' was. Would the pink just be a shade of red - and so a canon.
I hope the question deosn't seem too fussy. It;s just one of those rather silly things I've always wanted the answer to.
I know of an RC Priest who is a Canon Lawyer, and as such wears a biretta with a green pom-pom. Not sure if he also has green piping on his cassock...
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Take heed ye unwise among the people: O ye fools when will ye understand? Ps.94.8.
Posts: 103 | From: Stoke-on-Trent | Registered: Jun 2011
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
Birettas with scarves? (from Anglican Patrimony)
Thurible
At least they're not wearing scarves with cottas.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amazing Grace:
Ok, if I could find The Tatler, this would be better for it, but I couldn't so I am asking here.
Fr. Temp has a natty little capelet thing that goes on his cassock. Does this natty little capelet have a fancy liturgical name (e.g., NOT "capelet")? Thanks!
Signed,
Curious in California
Don't say I never do anything for you...
seasick, Eccles host
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
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Posted
Thank you!
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WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play
Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
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Arch Anglo Catholic
Shipmate
# 15181
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Posted
The shoulder cape worn over a cassock is sometimes known as a pellegrina, or just as often a shoulder cape.
I have known the whole ensemble to be referred to as a simar, derived from zimarra which is the italian form of a similar over cloak.
this must be distinguished from the Mozetta which is a larger front buttoning over cape and which marks a prelate or other dignitary.
Hope this helps!
Posts: 144 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Sep 2009
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Daykin:
quote:
Originally posted by The Man with a Stick:
I think (and this is a basic summation)...
Black - Standard
Purple pom-pom - Canon (anglican) or Mgr (catholic)
Entirely Purple - Bishop
Scarlet - Cardinal (catholic). Not really used in Anglican circles, but I know of an AC priest who is Chaplain to HM who has been seen in one on occasion. I also know of a "Cardinal Rector" who has been known to wear one. I think 'local custom' would be pleaded.
Can the pink pom pom on a black biretta be something other than a canon, for example, a bishop. Or is a bishop's biretta always red.
A few years ago I saw a priest (?) with quite a pink rather than a red pom pom. I wondered what his 'rank' was. Would the pink just be a shade of red - and so a canon.
I hope the question deosn't seem too fussy. It;s just one of those rather silly things I've always wanted the answer to.
This site would suggest that you ran into an Apostolic Protonotary, generally a titular dignity for RC clergy.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
My Google-fu may be off, but I simply cannot answer my question there. I know someone here will know: What does one wear beneath one's choir cassock? Undies, socks, and shoes? Pants and shirt?
Can I wear an alb over a choir cassock, or is that tacky?
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Padre Joshua:
My Google-fu may be off, but I simply cannot answer my question there. I know someone here will know: What does one wear beneath one's choir cassock? Undies, socks, and shoes? Pants and shirt?
Can I wear an alb over a choir cassock, or is that tacky?
Beneath the choir cassock, practically speaking it depends on the weather! Undies, certainly, also socks and shoes. If in orders a clerical collar, if lay, a (detached) white dress shirt collar gives a nice effect.
The old-fashioned Anglo-Catholics said TYTIYS, which being interpreted is 'Tuck your trousers in your socks,' it somehow being less than Catholic to have trouser bottoms showing.
If omitting trousers, be sure the Undie elastic is viable. I have seen a priest lose his underwear while censing the altar - no way to hide that!
Yes, by all means wear choir cassock under alb, it helps it to hang better, as well as being 'by the book.'
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You can't retire from a calling.
Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
I don't discuss what I wear under my cassock...
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seasick:
I don't discuss what I wear under my cassock...
That answers the question, I believe.
Thanks, Seasick and georgiaboy. Very helpful.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Oh dear. I thought it was understood that nothing was worn beneath the cassock?
It's all in fine working order.
I'll get me cope.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
I'll get me cope.
Not a joke I'd expect from a Missouri Synod Lutheran. ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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