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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Dipping - what's the big deal?
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Well, "buying it themselves" is precisely how two churches known to me have handled the issue. The folks who could actually tell good from bad got together with the pastor, and settled on a vintage that was neither horrible nor so fancy it would be a form of showing off--oh, and one sweet enough that the wine neophytes (new confirmands etc) wouldn't have an automatic "ugh" reaction.
They then quietly donated bottles of that to the church as one of their particular acts of service.
The rest of us benefited from having something drinkable, the church budget was helped, and the oenophiles got to use their skill in the service of the Lord. All good.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
This only works if the communicant knows how to receive the host. [..] The first person to receive knew what to do and held the host out to me in his/her hand, and I intincted and put it in his/her mouth.
We have something like this. Priest brings around cup-and-saucer affair with wine in cup and hosts on saucer. For intinctors, the priest intincts a host and places it on the communicant's tongue - it never goes near his potentially grubby mitts. Those not wishing to intinct receive in the hand, and wait for the chalice to come around.
Doesn't keep the inexperienced from slobbering on your fingers.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Occupational hazard. We deal.
I discourage self-intinction, but I'm not about to wrestle with someone who's determined to dip for himself. This is generally only an issue with visitors; if someone who attended regularly wanted to do it, I'd have a word with him after the service.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Well, we've tried it once, with no success. (My advice was ignored -- gradualism. We should have adulterated the sweet wine with Two Buck Chuck v-e-r-y slowly, over the period of a year shifting from the expensive to the cheap. Nobody would notice! But nooo, somebody more impatient decided to go from 100% good stuff to 100% cheap in one Sunday and naturally people could taste the difference...)
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
...Christmas there are at least six or eight services, with overflow in the basement. All fully Eucharistic...
Can a service be partially Eucharistic?
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
No slurping; in fact, any sipping or drinking at all isn't necessary. All that is required is that the surface of the wine brush the communicant's lips.
'All that is required' for a Christmas dinner is a slice of bread to stave off hunger. But what a miserable world that would be. Surely the way we celebrate the Eucharist should be a response to God's generosity. Of course we are receiving sacramental tokens* and not an actual banquet, but the signs should be more than just the legalistic minimum. Surely?
In practice this shouldn't mean 'slurping', but taking enough of a sip to savour the goodness of the wine. Hence it must be preferable for the communicant to take hold of the chalice.
(*I believe that the elements are in fact the Body and Blood of Christ, not 'just' tokens. But what is 'sufficient' in one sense can seem like a grudging way of experiencing a foretaste of the heavenly banquet.)
I think we can comfortably say symbol and still understand the puissant reality of the change.
I'm pretty much with you, Angloid, but then we are engaging in a miserable discussion in which a bishop, a bishop! gets both his science and his theology wrong. So, I mention what is required, not as a way to advocate what ought to be done.
As far as the science, done properly, the common cup will not be a vector for disease. Theologically and in reality, the Medicine of Immortality can only be a cause of healing.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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crunt
Shipmate
# 1321
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Posted
S.o.F. discussion on communion and the like always brings up the gulping phenomenon at the communion rail. As an obedient young confirmand, I was told only to 'wet my lips'. Of course, the young uns all joked about gulping more than their fair share, but it never occurred to me that people did - but reading threads on the Ship confirms that actually, yes, they do.
As far as intinction goes, it was never in my tradition, but when I lived in Korea it was the norm at the Anglican churches I visited. Likewise, my drilling at confirmation class kicked in again and as soon as the host was placed in my hand I consumed it, only to move to the chalice with nothing to intinct. During my years in Korea, I only received in one kind; not because I find intinction icky, but because I forgot to save my host for the next station.
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QUIZ: Bible
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Posts: 269 | From: Up country in the middle of Malaysia | Registered: Sep 2001
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by crunt:
S.o.F. discussion on communion and the like always brings up the gulping phenomenon at the communion rail. As an obedient young confirmand, I was told only to 'wet my lips'. Of course, the young uns all joked about gulping more than their fair share, but it never occurred to me that people did - but reading threads on the Ship confirms that actually, yes, they do.
Whereas I teach those who receive communion to take a decent swig - wetting lips would be a sign of the meanness of the reign of God, not the wondrous richness thereof.
And yes, I do use large wafers that provide around 20-30 munches.
While I can see the oneness implicit in the simultaneous sip advocated by Sipech, and know the syndrome well from many drunken orgies celebrated with the cry "Skål" the common cup idiom is about the receptacle, not the consumption. We drink of the cup that is blessed because the cup is the receptacle of the one Christ, not the many little plastic individualistic Christs.
And yeah , I know: we had a big gig at my pad last week and had to use eight chalices. But the chalice was each a unifier, rather than an individualiser. We touched, imbibed, even backwashed the same Christ, and all the holiness of that Christ was reverently consumed at the completion of the rite. No Jesus-blood in the dishwasher.
Thirty years of reverently consuming backwash and I'm still okay.
Relatively.
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Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
We use a large wafer, which breaks into 2 dozen pieces, and as many smaller wafers as will be needed for the expected numbers. And then some gluten free ones for those who need them.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
Can a service be partially Eucharistic?
To a conservative Anglican observing a Pentecostal communion, it can seem that way.
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
Posts: 3791 | From: On the corporate ladder | Registered: Jan 2012
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Jon in the Nati
Shipmate
# 15849
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Posted
For whatever it is worth (little, I am certain), I was taught that one ought to to consume enough wine that at least a few drops go down your throat. Not just wetting one's lips, but certainly not swilling like a law student drinking on someone else's dime (not that I know anything about that, either...).
Try as I might, I can't see that how much wine one receives has anything to do with the communion itself. The point is not how much one receives, but that it exists for us to receive at all.
Posts: 773 | From: Region formerly known as the Biretta Belt | Registered: Aug 2010
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
posted by Pigwidgeon quote:
Can a service be partially Eucharistic?
Have you never observed Good Friday?
The liturgy runs as follows:
Morning Prayer (Matins) with The Litany
Ante Communion (in high churches with communion from the reserved sacrament, lower churches it stopped before the prayer of consecration)
Evening Prayer (Evensong)
Sometimes things were added between Ante Communion and Evensong - for example singing a setting of The Reproaches, or the Lamentation.
In some places the whole thing was run together, in other Evensong took place later and was followed by Tenebrae.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
posted by Pigwidgeon quote:
Can a service be partially Eucharistic?
Have you never observed Good Friday?
The liturgy runs as follows:
Morning Prayer (Matins) with The Litany
Ante Communion (in high churches with communion from the reserved sacrament, lower churches it stopped before the prayer of consecration)
Evening Prayer (Evensong)
Sometimes things were added between Ante Communion and Evensong - for example singing a setting of The Reproaches, or the Lamentation.
In some places the whole thing was run together, in other Evensong took place later and was followed by Tenebrae.
Brenda Clough was talking about Christmas.
(I'm quite familiar with Good Friday liturgies.)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
posted by Pigwidgeon quote:
Can a service be partially Eucharistic?
Have you never observed Good Friday?
The liturgy runs as follows:
Morning Prayer (Matins) with The Litany
Ante Communion (in high churches with communion from the reserved sacrament, lower churches it stopped before the prayer of consecration)
Evening Prayer (Evensong)
Sometimes things were added between Ante Communion and Evensong - for example singing a setting of The Reproaches, or the Lamentation.
In some places the whole thing was run together, in other Evensong took place later and was followed by Tenebrae.
[tangent] No, that's one liturgy used on Good Friday. I know and have used in Anglican churches at least two other utterly different liturgies on Good Friday -- different from the one you describe and also from each other.
One is the series of meditations on the Seven last words from the cross, with hymns and so on.
The other I have in mind is the liturgy prescribed (but not required) in the BAS in the ACC, which treads no where near Morning Prayer or Evening Prayer, though it may involved communion either from the reserved sacrament or from elements consecrated as part of the service. If anything, it resembles the modern RC rites -- and the modern rites in most Anglican churches including, I believe, the CofE.
[/tangent]
John
Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by John Holding:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
posted by Pigwidgeon quote:
Can a service be partially Eucharistic?
Have you never observed Good Friday?
The liturgy runs as follows:
Morning Prayer (Matins) with The Litany
Ante Communion (in high churches with communion from the reserved sacrament, lower churches it stopped before the prayer of consecration)
Evening Prayer (Evensong)
Sometimes things were added between Ante Communion and Evensong - for example singing a setting of The Reproaches, or the Lamentation.
In some places the whole thing was run together, in other Evensong took place later and was followed by Tenebrae.
[tangent] No, that's one liturgy used on Good Friday. I know and have used in Anglican churches at least two other utterly different liturgies on Good Friday -- different from the one you describe and also from each other.
One is the series of meditations on the Seven last words from the cross, with hymns and so on.
The other I have in mind is the liturgy prescribed (but not required) in the BAS in the ACC, which treads no where near Morning Prayer or Evening Prayer, though it may involved communion either from the reserved sacrament or from elements consecrated as part of the service. If anything, it resembles the modern RC rites -- and the modern rites in most Anglican churches including, I believe, the CofE.
[/tangent]
John
From all appearances, what the historic BCP had in mind for Good Friday was the same service of Holy Communion that would be celebrated on a Sunday, with propers appropriate to the day. The 1928 US book has no rubric to indicate that only the Ante-Communion is appropriate for Good Friday.
Our own observation consists of the Altar Service (i.e. Liturgy of the Word) followed by the Solemn Collects, the Veneration of the Cross, and Communion from the reserved Sacrament. Fairly similar, at least in form, to the RC rite.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by John Holding:
No, that's one liturgy used on Good Friday. I know and have used in Anglican churches at least two other utterly different liturgies on Good Friday -- different from the one you describe and also from each other.
One is the series of meditations on the Seven last words from the cross, with hymns and so on.
No, that is not a 'liturgy' - it's a meditation.
Hence some churches distance themselves by advertising as 'Liturgical Three Hours' which INCLUDES the Liturgy and, possibly, the offices.
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My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Liturgylover
Shipmate
# 15711
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Posted
Getting back to intiction, Holy Trinity Brompton and its nearby sites (with the exception of the sung Eucharist at St Augustine's) insist that only intinction can be used. It felt very odd to not drink from the chalice and I refused to intinct and just consumed the host. The basis for this ridiculous precedent appears to be hygine, and they seem surprised when challenged by myself and others after the service about this practice.
Posts: 452 | From: North London | Registered: Jun 2010
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Our Lord said 'drink this', not 'dunk this'. If you are going to be legalistic, to receive in one kind only is perfectly valid. It doesn't become any more valid with this sort of carry-on. There is more to the sacrament than 'validity', and it is best expressed by drinking as well as eating.
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Richard M
Apprentice
# 16447
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Posted
At my ordination, earlier this year, I was administering one of the chalices at the Eucharist. It was fairly clear that many of the congregation had no real idea about how to receive communion either by dipping or any other method, and I doubted whether some of them had ever been confirmed, but the senior clergyman administering the wafers didn't seem to mind.
Anyway, one couple came up. He received the host, paused, and then dipped it into the chalice that I held up for him. The pause was just enough time for her to take her wafer and place it on her tongue. She then saw what he had done and very swiftly took the wafer back out of her mouth and dipped it into the chalice before I could do anything. I was aghast, and didn't quite know what to do. With hindsight I suppose I should have finished the chalice off and returned to the altar for a refill, but it was a big occasion and I just sort of carried on. I spent a few sleepless nights wondering if some sort of pandemic could be traced back to the Cathedral.
Posts: 13 | Registered: May 2011
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
So, why dip, anyway? Does the dipper think it's more hygenic? Would they stop dipping if they knew it isn't? Is it a theological stance of some sort? Some kind of 'receiving in two kinds is the only way to go' cult?
I admit that I have dipped myself (I mean the wafer, not me!) when I've been spluttering and coughing, and wanting to reassure folks they're not going to be poisoned! But I can't think of any other reason to do this.
One place I worked, it used to be a mystery to me why all the teens and young people of a certain age in one area dipped their wafer in the chalice. Then I found out that the reason was the school they went to; a local CofE secondary where staff had taught the kids, in preparation for their confirmation and first communion, to dip the bread so they could whizz through school communion services a lot quicker, than it took when everyone sipped.
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Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Richard M:
It was fairly clear that many of the congregation had no real idea about how to receive communion either by dipping or any other method,
Yeah, I've never officially given anyone first communion, but I'm sure I give out quite a few at most weddings and funerals. Not my ordination, though, as I did the seminarians, religious brothers and lectors section.
I once asked a second grader a few days before her first communion whether she was looking forward it. She told me she very much was, but it was going to be her second communion. Just smile and nod...
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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Vulpior
Foxier than Thou
# 12744
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Posted
When I am setting the table I always make sure that our small intinction chalice is only part-way filled, to minimise the ability of the dippers to get their fingers into it.
I've been in a church where we were thorough with the use of sanitising hand gel, but not the current one. I wonder whether the interregnum is the time to introduce it...
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Posts: 946 | From: Mount Fairy, NSW | Registered: Jun 2007
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
Last swine flu epidemic the advice was definitely to ban both intinction and a shared chalice on medical advice. Communion to be received by wafers or bread alone. Here the wafers were intincted by dropper, before the service.
Research on infection through shared cup (1988)
quote:
In conclusion, there is experimental evidence suggesting that sharing a communion cup contaminates the wine and cup. However, there has never been a documented case of illness caused by sharing a chalice reported in the literature. Research on religious rituals including the shared cup
The references to intinction being less hygienic all refer back to the David Gould article. My google-fu only came up with this research which didn't come to the same conclusion.
(Apologies for the owly links to a couple of articles - they had parentheses)
And the 2010 conversation about intinction on the Ship
Thanks for doing the research on this. I think this confirms my suspicion that opinion (on all sides) is based less upon actual evidence and fact and more upon tradition, rumour and hearsay!
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
Communion to be received by wafers or bread alone. Here the wafers were intincted by dropper, before the service.
And, of course, never touched by human hand at any time. Yeah, sirree Bob.
I'll expect to see Ecclesiastical Tweezers show up on Gadgets for God soon.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
I admit that I have dipped myself (I mean the wafer, not me!) when I've been spluttering and coughing, and wanting to reassure folks they're not going to be poisoned! But I can't think of any other reason to do this.
Likewise. When I have been clearly coughing and spluttering throughout the service, I will dip the wafer (holding it at the edge to ensure my fingers do not touch the wine) to reassure other members of the congregation. After reading this thread, however, I will probably change my practice and just receive in one kind when I have a cold, much as I dislike that.
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
What a depressing thread.
Are you aware of the damage that this present-day obsession with "hygiene" is causing? Read this.
Of course there may be short-term worries about specific novel vectors. They can be dealt with on a one-off basis. But the obsession with hygiene in inappropriate circumstances is hugely damaging. Our immune systems are, it appears, attuned to cope with continuing challenges. Remove that and problems start.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Philip Charles
Ship's cutler
# 618
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Posted
We started intinction when an alcoholic was advised to adopt the practice, it quickly caught on and is now in general use. It also enables children to receive in both kinds in the same way as the adults. Having Orthodox leanings I like the idea of receiving both kinds together. Another communicant who is an alcoholic on antabuce passes the wafer over the chalice. Having survived well into "retirement" I can say I my health has not been affected by being the last to drink from the chalice. Health concerns are not the only reasons for intinction.
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There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't.
Posts: 89 | From: Dunedin, NZ | Registered: Jun 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
I don't intinct due to fear of germs but because I can't stand the wine used in my church (even one sip makes me gag, and feel ill for quite a while afterwards). I don't know what sort it is. I offered to receive in one kind only, but one of the churchwardens suggested I intinct instead, so only dip in the tiniest amount possible. My fingers therefore don't go anywhere near the wine and just touching the surface means such a minute amount doesn't cause me problems. Thus everyone is happy.
The only downside is that I could do with a large swig to lubricate my throat before singing the anthem, rather than wanting to cough on a dry wafer. Can't have it all ways.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
... The only downside is that I could do with a large swig to lubricate my throat before singing the anthem ...
Hip-flask of GIN in the choir-stalls? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
We go up to receive Communion after singing the anthem, so the size of swig is immaterial ... ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
... I could do with a large swig to lubricate my throat before singing the anthem, rather than wanting to cough on a dry wafer.
One church I sang in puts wafers and individual cups on a side table for the singers, so they came partake after singing instead of immediately before singing. Much more confidence about hitting and staying on the right notes when not simultaneously choking down crumbs while trying to sing the "sung during everyone else's communion" song.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
... The only downside is that I could do with a large swig to lubricate my throat before singing the anthem ...
Hip-flask of GIN in the choir-stalls?
We go up to receive Communion after singing the anthem, so the size of swig is immaterial ...
It is said that the clergy of Brompton Oratory gargle with malt whiskey before services where they are to sing/intone.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Chap
Shipmate
# 4926
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Posted
I am against dipping for one reason - I have seen more than one person go knuckle deep while trying to intinct.
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Chap
Comfort the hurting; Feed the hungry; Clothe the naked.
Posts: 454 | From: Texas | Registered: Aug 2003
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Here's your answer: wafer straws. Consecrate the straws, communicants drink the wine through them and then eat them! I think I should patent that.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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DangerousDeacon
Shipmate
# 10582
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Here's your answer: wafer straws. Consecrate the straws, communicants drink the wine through them and then eat them! I think I should patent that.
Sheer genius Albertus! You will make a fortune!
One of the problem for me with dippers is trying to figure out how much wine I need - since I have a Cathedral in a town with lots of tourists, you see all sorts of strange permutations of receiving communion. If they are mainly sippers, the chalice is dry; if mainly dippers, too much of the blood left, sometimes with strange dregs lurking just under the surface.
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'All the same, it may be that I am wrong; what I take for gold and diamonds may be only a little copper and glass.'
Posts: 506 | From: Top End | Registered: Oct 2005
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DangerousDeacon:
One of the problem for me with dippers is trying to figure out how much wine I need - since I have a Cathedral in a town with lots of tourists, you see all sorts of strange permutations of receiving communion. If they are mainly sippers, the chalice is dry; if mainly dippers, too much of the blood left, sometimes with strange dregs lurking just under the surface.
Also, if the chalice isn't full enough the dippers can't reach the wine very easily.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Dal Segno
al Fine
# 14673
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Posted
I had always thought that the silver of the chalice plus the alcohol in the wine reduced the risk of infection, but the Anglican Church of Canada says otherwise.
quote:
Some have trusted in the fact that the silver or gold in chalices has a weak antiseptic quality, however studies have shown that the effect is too minor to significantly reduce bacterial counts in the wine. Similarly, the concentration of alcohol in wine used at communion has an inadequate antiseptic effect.
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Yet ever and anon a trumpet sounds
Posts: 1200 | From: Pacific's triple star | Registered: Mar 2009
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
A friend told me last night her church usually offers a choice - two stations, one dipping one sipping - but Christmas Eve all stations are dipping because in a crowded church it's much faster.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DangerousDeacon:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Here's your answer: wafer straws. Consecrate the straws, communicants drink the wine through them and then eat them! I think I should patent that.
Sheer genius Albertus! You will make a fortune!
You can have the Australian franchise ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
quote:
Originally posted by DangerousDeacon:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Here's your answer: wafer straws. Consecrate the straws, communicants drink the wine through them and then eat them! I think I should patent that.
Sheer genius Albertus! You will make a fortune!
You can have the Australian franchise
Drinking straws - there may be more truth in this method of drinking from the chalice than we realise. Some years ago, I seem to remember reading about that means from a Roman Catholic source, but I will have to check this out again now.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
It's called a fistula, which is just the Latin word for tube (careful if you google it; it also has a medical meaning). If I recall correctly, the GIRM listed it as an option for receiving communion up until the revision that was issued with MR3.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Rats. Does that mean it's public domain? The beauty of my idea is that you don't have to worry about what happens if drops of the MPBOOLASJC get left on or in the tube.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Basilica
Shipmate
# 16965
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adam.:
It's called a fistula, which is just the Latin word for tube (careful if you google it; it also has a medical meaning). If I recall correctly, the GIRM listed it as an option for receiving communion up until the revision that was issued with MR3.
A "tube" is permitted by GIRM as revised in 2003:
quote:
245. The Blood of the Lord may be received either by drinking from the chalice directly, or by intinction, or by means of a tube or a spoon.
GIRM ¶245
It's referred to as a calamus (reed/straw) in Latin, rather than a fistula.
[ 21. November 2014, 09:52: Message edited by: Basilica ]
Posts: 403 | Registered: Feb 2012
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Galilit
Shipmate
# 16470
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Posted
A common spoon or "bring Your own"?
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She who does Her Son's will in all things can rely on me to do Hers.
Posts: 624 | From: a Galilee far, far away | Registered: Jun 2011
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Galilit:
A common spoon or "bring Your own"?
In the eastern churches, it is a common spoon.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
The Medicine of Immortality, the Holy Mysteries, the most sacred Body and Blood of our Lord and God and Savior Jesus Christ is not going to be a vector of disease.
But, we should use human prudence anyway.
Use hosts. Use a silver chalice with a gold plated interior, if your lot can afford it. Use real wine.
Wipe the chalice with a different part of the purificator after each person receives. Only the administrator of the cup should intinct the host.
No slurping; in fact, any sipping or drinking at all isn't necessary. All that is required is that the surface of the wine brush the communicant's lips.
Oh. Did I forget to say, it is The Medicine of Immortality, so the bishop should stop obsessing about disease and get on with saving souls.
I'm just about 100% with this. The main thing I'd add is that even if you knew you were going to get sick from receiving the Blood of Christ, would that stop you? There's a Communion meditation, I think! What does Communion really mean if we turn away from it for fear of germs?
I've always been a slight germophobe, myself. The common cup cured me of it. Seriously! I was nervous the first few times going up to receive it, wondering if I'd even be able to receive from the common cup, but my fears melted away at the altar rail. Apart from Communion, I used to not even let my sister take a sip from a drink I was having, but now I'll share a beverage with, well, not anyone, but anyone I know.
All that being said, I think it's important not to give others qualms about receiving, so if I'm noticeably sick, I won't receive from the Cup.
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
What does Communion really mean if we turn away from it for fear of germs?
I'm now picturing the Last Supper with the Apostles arguing about the Common Cup vs. intincting. It could explain some of the facial expressions and gestures in Leonardo's painting.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
Basilica, I stand corrected. You learn something every day!
But...
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
The Medicine of Immortality, the Holy Mysteries, the most sacred Body and Blood of our Lord and God and Savior Jesus Christ is not going to be a vector of disease.
This I have to very much disagree with. It's almost a prosperity gospel in miniature. Carrying a Bible is enough in some places today to warrant a death sentence. If the Word of God can be a magnet for human evil, I don't see why the Precious Blood can't be a vector of natural evil.
Now, practically, I don't think the risks really are very great, especially if you take the quite sensible precautions you mention. But, participating in an embodied sacramental ritual must expose us to at least potential bodily risks. The solace is that we're not to fear the one (or the thing) that can harm the body and not the soul.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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