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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: What Bible Is This?
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georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
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Posted
Yesterday I subbed for the organist at a neighboring parish. Three services, 8 9 & 11, all Lessons and Carols (at least by title).
The 9 o'clock was obviously their 'family service.' Lots of chatty people and giggly kids in the gallery. At that service the 1st 8 lessons were read from something called 'the SPARK Bible,' of which I had never heard (and hope never to hear again!)
It was sort of like an updated version of the 'bible stories' we used to get in Sunday School. Vague approximations of the narrative and way-over-the-top sappy. One example will suffice: in the Annunciation lesson 'Mary saw a handsome young man in her room, and just KNEW he must be an angel.'
My question: has anybody else experienced this SPARK? And if so what are your thoughts?
The young people reading these lessons had obviously practiced them, and read very well; which is more than I can say for the adults who read at 8 & 11!
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You can't retire from a calling.
Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
My question: has anybody else experienced this SPARK?
I haven't and from your brief description, I hope I never do!
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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andras
Shipmate
# 2065
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Posted
Sounds frightful! But when I looked at the SPARK Bible sampler (Google for it!) it seemed to be standard sensible NRSV, with questions and hints added.
Sounds like it had then been rendered into some sort of sub-English by the people in the church!
Posts: 544 | From: Tregaron | Registered: Dec 2001
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
'Mary saw a handsome young man in her room, and just KNEW he must be....'
... gay.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
These are apparently its opening words.
quote:
On the first day of creation, the wind of God blew.
WHISH! WOOSH! SWOOSH! God said,
“Let there be light!” CRACKLE! BOOM! BANG!
There was light.
God saw that the light was good.
Then, SPLLLLLITTT! God divided the light and the darkness into day and night.
Not only do I agree with Spike. I think I would have done when I was 9.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
If you are referring to the SPARK Bible that is being offered in the USA, please note that was written for kids ages 2 to Grade 2. As such it is going to use language that will capture the attention of young children. I would imagine the intent on using this version (actually a paraphrase for kids)was to keep the services at a chidld's level.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
The young people reading these lessons had obviously practiced them, and read very well; which is more than I can say for the adults who read at 8 & 11!
Were the readers elementary school age or teenagers?
Were there actually a preponderance of 2-8 year-olds in the congregation?
GG
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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113
Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Al Eluia:
quote:
Originally posted by andras:
Sounds like it had then been rendered into some sort of sub-English by the people in the church!
LOL! Kudos to the kids for reading well. I heard once of a teenager who was reading and had Paul describing himself as an apostle to the genitals.
I've heard a reading with precisely that issue and it was likewise a young teenager reading (I was even younger at the time).
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
The Spark bibles are from a Lutheran (ELCA) publishing house and are written for Christian Formation programs. There is a Spark NRSV (basically an NRSV bible with lots of student-friendly supplementary material) and a Spark Story Bible, aimed at children from preschool through early elementary grades (as Gramps49 pointed out, above), It certainly sounds like the reading was done from the latter. I have used the Spark Story Bible with the younger children at my church, and I think it's quite good, although -- as the cited passage shows -- it has a tendency to describe good characters as pretty or handsome.
I think it's an unusual choice for use in liturgy -- there are paraphrases that are accessible (CEB, CEV) to many ages.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Higgs Bosun
Shipmate
# 16582
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Posted
Perhaps it is just me with my Safeguarding Officer hat on, but I cannot think it is a very good idea to teach to girls that when a "handsome young man" appears in your room "he must be an angel", particularly when he goes on to say that you are going to have a baby...
Posts: 313 | From: Near the Tidal Thames | Registered: Aug 2011
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Ahleal V
Shipmate
# 8404
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Posted
In Church of England circles, the unofficial standard text to use with children and families (and in Godly Play) appears to be the Lion Storyteller's Bible which can be cheaply found on Amazon.
x
AV
[ 30. December 2014, 15:35: Message edited by: Ahleal V ]
Posts: 499 | From: English Spires | Registered: Aug 2004
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
I suspect in broadcasting terms there is a clash of audience expectation here. For a pantomime aimed at young kids Spark et al are fine. For a liturgical act then no, they're not. It is a question of both the presenters/organizers knowing their aims and intentions and the congregants tuning their expectation.
This applies of course to other contexts too ... in my new pad I am shifting my predecessor's "Celebration of Christmas Stories" (or somesuch) back to what it really was, "Festival of Nine Lessons and Carols." I am doing so not because I am an unregenerate traditionalist but because a silly "rebadging" to attract a "new audience" was a misguided and doomed idea. As part of that shift I am over about three years returning to old KJV and BCP readings to replace the sort of Interim Compromise Biblical Text that was pleasing no-one.
At the same time I am allowing the "Compromise non-Eucharistic Jesussy Story-telling Gathering with Anglican Aplomb and Maximised Tedium" to become both Eucharistic and riotous. Though I used CEV rather than Spark or whatever.
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and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
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Galilit
Shipmate
# 16470
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
'Mary saw a handsome young man in her room, and just KNEW he must be....'
... gay.
Re read your Milton, Venbede!
Paradise Lost, Book 1 lines 423 -432: "For spirits when they please can either sex assume, or both..."
The angel only assumed a male form so as to curtail young Mary's lesbian wonderings as she surveyed (in the privacy of her bedroom during her afternoon nap) the late BC "potential" of stinking fisherman, pale Pharasaical book-worms and unwashed shepherds!
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She who does Her Son's will in all things can rely on me to do Hers.
Posts: 624 | From: a Galilee far, far away | Registered: Jun 2011
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
Total tangent.
That's an interesting midrash. Over on another thread there are straight me decrying the Virgin Birth again with the implication that what a real woman wants is a Real Man.
I haven't the energy to post yet again that the doctrine of the Virgin Birth puts at the centre of Christian revelation that a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.
Back to the OP
Sounds ghastly, but the congregation had two other services to go to instead. And congratulations on the children's competent reading.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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HCH
Shipmate
# 14313
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Posted
Why should anyone assume that Gabriel appeared to Mary as a (specifically) young man?
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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Galilit
Shipmate
# 16470
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Posted
Gabriel was only the Messenger.
In most "art" Gabriel is mighty androgynous
Luke 1:35: "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be holy..."
Gabriel's attractivness, gender, sexuality, etc are quite irrelevant to Mary's becoming pregnant.
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She who does Her Son's will in all things can rely on me to do Hers.
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
I always thought Tilda Swinton made a good Gabriel in Constantine.
As for weird translations, I've only just discovered the bible in Cockney!
[ 04. January 2015, 03:36: Message edited by: Evensong ]
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a theological scrapbook
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
Why should anyone assume that Gabriel appeared to Mary as a (specifically) young man?
Confusion/elision with the angel-at-the-tomb incident?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
As for weird translations, I've only just discovered the bible in Cockney!
And I have two (small Penguin) volumes of The Kiwi Bible, which I've barely dipped into.
quote:
So he said to the bloke with the crook hand, 'Here, gizza decent look at your hand.' Well, believe it or not, when he stuck out his hand it was as good as new! The religious guys were totally cheesed off at that, and they took to their heels...' (from Mark 3)
But strictly, I should say, for personal enjoyment,
GG
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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113
Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
There is a Klingon Bible. Also a Bible in LOL, which is the dialect that cats use in the captions on I Can Haz Cheezeburger. In that universe, God's name is Ceiling Cat; he is of course white. The devil is a black feline named Basement Cat.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
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ArachnidinElmet
Shipmate
# 17346
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Posted
Also Exodus in Yorkshire dialect: 'And God said, "Nay, Lad"'.
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'If a pleasant, straight-forward life is not possible then one must try to wriggle through by subtle manoeuvres' - Kafka
Posts: 1887 | From: the rhubarb triangle | Registered: Sep 2012
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
I find it quite easy to believe that God would indeed talk like that! I think that somebody said that Coverdale's psalter (the BCP psalms) sounds even better if you read/ imagine it with a Yorkshire accent.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
There is a Klingon Bible. Also a Bible in LOL, which is the dialect that cats use in the captions on I Can Haz Cheezeburger. In that universe, God's name is Ceiling Cat; he is of course white. The devil is a black feline named Basement Cat.
And the Holy Spirit is Hovercat – I like that.
GG
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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113
Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008
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ArachnidinElmet
Shipmate
# 17346
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
I find it quite easy to believe that God would indeed talk like that! I think that somebody said that Coverdale's psalter (the BCP psalms) sounds even better if you read/ imagine it with a Yorkshire accent.
My old priest used to give good 'Voice of God' during sermons; he was the son of a Bradford market trader.
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'If a pleasant, straight-forward life is not possible then one must try to wriggle through by subtle manoeuvres' - Kafka
Posts: 1887 | From: the rhubarb triangle | Registered: Sep 2012
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
Then there are the Cotton Patch Gospels.
Moo
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
Then there are the Cotton Patch Gospels.
Moo
I once heard a sermon based on the Cotton Patch version of the Good Samaritan, or more specifically the "who is my neighbor?" question in light of Southern culture. Very compelling.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
Dealing with the Good Samaritan story, I was really stuck how Godspell portrayed the Samaritan as a common drunk. Helped me to see the story in a different light. But this is dating me.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
In vino veritas. Or, as they're discussing somewhere else on the ship, alcohol lowers fear.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Al Eluia
Inquisitor
# 864
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
There is a Klingon Bible. Also a Bible in LOL, which is the dialect that cats use in the captions on I Can Haz Cheezeburger. In that universe, God's name is Ceiling Cat; he is of course white. The devil is a black feline named Basement Cat.
This is my favorite passage from LOLCat Bible:
teh catitudes
1 Wen he seez lotz kittehz, he climbz tree. His BFz climbz tree too.
2 He sez hai and he teaches teh kittehs, he sez:
3 Cheezburgrz 4 teh n00b kittehs, theys can has teh Ceiling.
4 Cheezburgrz 4 teh sad kittehs, theys can has petting.
5 Cheezburgrz 4 teh m33k kittehs, theys can has teh urfs.
6 Cheezburgrz 4 teh kittehs who sez "I can has gud, plz?", theys can has it.
7 Cheezburgrz 4 teh kittehs dat no pwns, Ceiling Cat no pwnz0rz thems.
8 Cheezburgrz 4 teh kittehs wiff purr in hartz, theys can sees Ceiling Cat.
9 Cheezburgrz 4 teh kittehs dat sez shhhhh!, Ceiling Cat is liek "u mai kittehs."
10 Cheezburgrz 4 teh kittehs dat gets pwned by otehrs fur haz gud, theys can has teh Ceiling too.
11 Cheezburgrz if otehrs be liek "DO NOT WANT" 2 u, an liez abt u, coz of meh.
12 B teh happys n party, coz u can has cookiez n cakez in Ceiling. Iz liek wen theys been liek "DO NOT WANT" to all teh holee kittehs b4.
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