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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Do Bright and Light parties fulfil a need?
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
Locally Churches Together have run a Bright and Light Party on Halloween for primary age children to give them an alternative to trick and treating.
This is a version
Here the party runs from 4:30pm or 5pm to 6pm/6:15pm depending on whether it's a school night or not. And the requirement is that children dress in bright colours and take part in bright and light activities. Halloween costumes are discouraged. It's all free and frothy.
When I have helped in the past I have met several of the children who attended earlier changed into Halloween costumes and out trick or treating as I headed home after clearing away. Which seems somewhat to defeat the object of the exercise.
I really have two or three questions:
- What is the point of these parties? If they are intended to provide an alternative to trick or treating, why are they aimed at the young children who almost certainly trick or treat in groups with an adult, or in a small residential area where everyone knows everyone else? If the idea is to avoid the big problems with trick or treating why aren't the parties later and aimed at teenagers?
- What is the theology behind churches providing an alternative of bright and light to the day of the dead type / All Souls celebrations? Is this reflecting a lack of theology about death and dying?
- If we want to provide an alternative to the secular Halloween celebrations, should we be doing something for young people that allows them to discuss and face death and dying, rather than ignore it entirely and brush it under the carpet?
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
The main purpose of "light parties" is to prove that Christians don't party well.
I do understand the intent behind them, but I think, as you suggest, that it is a mistaken theology that drives this. We should use the season to talk about the reality of the spiritual, of evil, of the dark. Instead, there is a tendency to say "Halloween is bad - be bright and lovely instead".
I do remember one Halloween a group I was in wanted to talk about the importance of rejecting the evil and embracing the good and so decided to burn things that we needed to reject. Unfortunately, what it meant was that we were in a graveyard on Halloween, making a fire and burning stuff. That was even more creepy.
The truth as I see it is that there is dark in the world, and we need to acknowledge that, talk about it, and drain it of power - not ignore it and pretend that it is something horrible that we would never touch.
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Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
The website says that they are "not keen on Halloween's ugliness."
This is kinda like saying that we're not really keen on the sacharine sweetness of Valentine's Day, so instead of handing out sentimental cards with hearts and cherubs, we're gonna hand out pictures of of bloody skulls with axes embedded in them.
Obviously, you're entitled to do that, and the rest of us are to think you're some sort of [unpurgatorial word for a socially maladjusted individual].
[ 01. November 2014, 14:17: Message edited by: Stetson ]
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
Somewhat cross-posted with the beagle.
I should admit to a bit of a bias, in that I was raised by a mother who, God bless her heart, was decidedly on the treacly side of things, and once made me go as a harlequin for Halloween. Never quite got over that little adventure in incongruity.
[ 01. November 2014, 14:18: Message edited by: Stetson ]
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
Just to play, umm, Devil's Advocate for a sec...
quote:
The truth as I see it is that there is dark in the world, and we need to acknowledge that, talk about it, and drain it of power - not ignore it and pretend that it is something horrible that we would never touch.
Do you think that Halloween can be that easily "housebroken" to fit a Christian worldview? It seems to me that the whole idea of it is a celebration, albeit within a confined setting, of deviance and darkness.
That's why I think the goodie-goodies who complain "We shouldn't be teaching kids that it's okay to go around making threats in order to get candy" are kinda missing the point. It's precisely that aspect of human nature which, if only on a symbolic level, is being allowed to roam free.
For the record, we always yelled "Halloween Apples", not "Trick Or Treat" where I lived, so I'm not just engaging in wistful nostalgia for my lost boyhood here.
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
My mum tells me that when she was growing up, they had "Mischief Night" - a similar idea, but for her, it was a time of letting the younger ones let off steam, probably after a busy few weeks working on the harvest. As they would be liable to be stuck inside the house in the evenings for the next few months, it made sense.
That is about "celebrating the deviant", but within confines, and that idea can fit within Christianity - we are broken, fallen beings, we have trouble and mischief within us. We can celebrate that, because that is who we are. then we can continue to be reformed and changed into Gods likeness.
Celebrate that we are still not perfect, because if we were perfect, we would be dead.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
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Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
I can understand the motivation but find the 'Christian alternatives' to be cheesy and embarrassing for the most part.
Their only value seems to be to convince the organisers that they are doing something worthwhile and to give them a counter-cultural buzz once a year.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
When I was a kid, Halloween was primarily a harvest fest. Candy corn, bobbing for apples, carving pumpkins.
Costumes were almost all "other cultures" or animal (I remember dressing like a "gypsy" or "turkish dancer," neighborhood boys were often "pirate" or lion or cowboy from a TV show). Toss in an occasional (but rare) bedsheet ghost.
In recent years many costumes have been graphically gruesome. Some Halloween stores give me the creeps just walking in the door. If that's what's going on in your area, I well understand trying to create an alternative.
But parties don't satisfy the Halloween itch, they didn't in my day either. My school threw a Halloween party with costume contest and games, but when my friends and I got home we wanted to go trick or treating.
Last night I went to the town Halloween fest fairly late -- more people were crowding the nearby residential streets trick or treating than were at the downtown fest. (A friend on one of the near-downtown residential streets said she went through $200 of candy. That was several years ago; crowds last night were at least double then, maybe more.)
Trick or treat is what kids want to do on Halloween; no matter what alternatives you offer, they'll enjoy the party but they still want to go trick or treating before or after the party.
(Kids includes teenagers, who usually trick or treat with no hint of costume.)
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Bran Stark
Shipmate
# 15252
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
The website says that they are "not keen on Halloween's ugliness."
This is kinda like saying that we're not really keen on the sacharine sweetness of Valentine's Day, so instead of handing out sentimental cards with hearts and cherubs, we're gonna hand out pictures of of bloody skulls with axes embedded in them.
Obviously, you're entitled to do that, and the rest of us are to think you're some sort of [unpurgatorial word for a socially maladjusted individual].
I daresay such pictures would actually be rather appropriate, in commemoration of the martyrdom of St. Valentine!
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
Just to play, umm, Devil's Advocate for a sec...
quote:
The truth as I see it is that there is dark in the world, and we need to acknowledge that, talk about it, and drain it of power - not ignore it and pretend that it is something horrible that we would never touch.
Do you think that Halloween can be that easily "housebroken" to fit a Christian worldview? It seems to me that the whole idea of it is a celebration, albeit within a confined setting, of deviance and darkness.
That's why I think the goodie-goodies who complain "We shouldn't be teaching kids that it's okay to go around making threats in order to get candy" are kinda missing the point. It's precisely that aspect of human nature which, if only on a symbolic level, is being allowed to roam free.
My understanding of Halloween was always that we wear costumes to celebrate our triumph over the evil spirits by aping them, or perhaps to hide from them, but certainly not to sincerely imitate them!
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Yes, Belle Ringer. I can remember when Hallowe'en was more about apple-bobbing and such than ghouls and ghosts and so on ... and yes, I agree that some of the grisliness has gone beyond ...
So I can understand the motivation to find alternatives.
Sadly, most of the alternatives are just naff.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
When I was a teenager we didn't have any of the modern US-imported rubbish. Neither did we have the US-evangelical hysteria against it!
We had no pumpkins - we hollowed out a swede. Have you ever tried that???
And then we went to The Salvation Army youth club for a Tramps Supper.
Now, can you tell me what would be the most offensive ![[Biased]](wink.gif) dressing up as a ghost or dressing up as a homeless person?
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
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Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
Bran Stark wrote:
quote:
My understanding of Halloween was always that we wear costumes to celebrate our triumph over the evil spirits by aping them, or perhaps to hide from them, but certainly not to sincerely imitate them!
That may be, though my guess is that when a kid dresses up as Dracula, or his parents put a flaming skull in the window, the general thought in their heads usually isn't "Parodying Evil testifies to its ultimate defeat through the omnipotence of God."
Rather, it's more just "Blood-sucking vampires and flaming skulls. Coo-oool!"
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
When I was a teenager we didn't have any of the modern US-imported rubbish. Neither did we have the US-evangelical hysteria against it!
We had no pumpkins - we hollowed out a swede. Have you ever tried that???
And then we went to The Salvation Army youth club for a Tramps Supper.
Now, can you tell me what would be the most offensive dressing up as a ghost or dressing up as a homeless person?
That dates you, Mudfrog. Like me you are a relic of a more enlightened age! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
balaam, I think that's the intention, but the darkness bit gets swept away completely. The parties I have helped at have had lots of activities based on colour and light - no dark at all. And I think that we need to reflect the dark too, and these Bright and Light parties are misguided.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Jenn.
Shipmate
# 5239
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Posted
I feel frustrated by light parties. My kids know that the world is scary sometimes. They need to remember that God is with them in the dark, not to pretend it doesn't exist.
We did our own little halloween thing this year. It began a couple of years ago when the preschool had a halloween party so ignoring it wasn't an option. We turned off lights and talked about scary things, then lit a candle and saw how much difference it makes when there is a little light, and talked about Jesus being the light of the world. Easy when they are 4, can't see it working for much longer though!
Posts: 2282 | From: England | Registered: Nov 2003
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
I agree with Mudfrog. I also think that the US-style evangelical reaction against Hallowe'en is counter-productive and tends to draw more attention to it than it deserves.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
When I was a teenager we didn't have any of the modern US-imported rubbish.
Nothing like a little pond war fodder to adorn a thread with bright and light.
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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
The main purpose of "light parties" is to prove that Christians don't party well.
And from what I can gather - mission accomplished.
Oh my, yes. I took my kids to one this year, not because I think they're an awesome idea, but because I'm not wild about walking around the neighbourhood with them, sanctioning the taking of candy from strangers, either. I thought my kids would be happy enough as long as they got to dress up and eat some lollies, so we went along to the 'light party' put on by one of the big local churches. The following are my impressions: a lot of people had put a lot of effort into the event, so kudos to them for that. However, rather than just letting the kids have a party time without the 'evil' undertones, it was used as an evangelism opportunity, which irritated me - it's called a 'party' on the flyers, but you have to sit down and listen to a 'show' which is three guys dramatically reading some passage from Acts, before you're allowed to do any activities. Then there's the activities. The point of these was to earn some party currency (ie little coins- which had crosses embossed on them...), and you could use these coins to 'pay' for various types of treat foods. One of which was a 'party bag' which contained one wrapped chocolate, one lollipop, one small pack of unflavoured rice crackers, and a little box of raisins. When I saw that, I thought, 'Jeez, guys, don't have too much fun, you might have a sensation overload or something.' And what's with the earning your treats? This is how to show an alternative to the way the world does things? By going for parsimony and and a 'work for your candy' model, on the one night of the year when everyone else* does something that looks a bit like grace?
Anyway, glad it's over. All that said, my perspective is that of an adult. My kids professed to enjoy it and went to bed happy, and it was only two hours of my life...
*ie: the people handing out the candy, not the trick-or-treaters...
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Posts: 993 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
My church has a light party but I really don't get it, why invent a Christian alternative rather than just look to Christian tradition? And it does seem a cheesy sanitised version that avoids the issues.
My youngest went to a Halloween party dressed as a Zombie Doctor Who instead...
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Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
Locally Churches Together have run a Bright and Light Party on Halloween for primary age children to give them an alternative to trick and treating.
Better than telling they aren't allowed to do anything fun, I suppose.
quote:
What is the theology behind churches providing an alternative of bright and light to the day of the dead type / All Souls celebrations? Is this reflecting a lack of theology about death and dying?
I'd say, "Yes, most likely."
quote:
If we want to provide an alternative to the secular Halloween celebrations, should we be doing something for young people that allows them to discuss and face death and dying, rather than ignore it entirely and brush it under the carpet?
Yes. Though I'd suggest an addition, not an alternative.
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Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
Now, can you tell me what would be the most offensive dressing up as a ghost or dressing up as a homeless person?
You could combine them.
Oh, and Happy All Hallows' (Saints') Day to all! ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
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Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ChastMastr:
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
Now, can you tell me what would be the most offensive dressing up as a ghost or dressing up as a homeless person?
You could combine them.
Oh, and Happy All Hallows' (Saints') Day to all!
A dead homeless person! Excellent.
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Macrina
Shipmate
# 8807
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Posted
It does seem a little strange to me to see Churches protesting against the secularisation (and pagan-isation) of a day which is widely acknowledged to have had Pagan roots. So really, what they're doing now is re-branding their original take over.
I'm not sure what I make of it to be honest. I think I'm in agreement with those here that have suggested there is a serious need to acknowledge darkness and wrong in the world and not to bury it under fairy lights and sugar but how you do that effectively in a society that no longer knows how to take Christianity seriously is difficult.
Posts: 535 | From: Christchurch, New Zealand | Registered: Nov 2004
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Hmmm ...
A fair point on the Pond War thing, Mousethief but in this instance I think Mudfrog also has a fair point.
I don't think Mudfrog would turn his nose up at all US imports, any more than I would - but on this one I'd agree that the Americanisation of Hallowe'en is a pretty reprehensible development.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
hosting/
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
When I was a teenager we didn't have any of the modern US-imported rubbish.
Nothing like a little pond war fodder to adorn a thread with bright and light.
We'll see where your related post in the Styx gets you with the relevant powers that be. In the meantime, accusing someone of fuelling a pond war is, as far as I can see, the equivalent to spoiling for one.
Whatever the Styx ruling, within the Purgatory hosts' remit, all participants are reminded that pond war fuelling, accusations of pond war fuelling, junior hosting, and disregard for the Ten Commandments and hostly interventions are not to be indulged in here.
/hosting
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Macrina:
I think I'm in agreement with those here that have suggested there is a serious need to acknowledge darkness and wrong in the world and not to bury it under fairy lights and sugar
I agree about that, but that's not what Halloween is supposed to be about at its heart: It's about death, especially (but not limited to) dead loved ones, which is not the same thing. Fairy lights, and sugar, and decorated candy skulls, and such.
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
We had no pumpkins - we hollowed out a swede. Have you ever tried that???
Ah yes - the smell of burning swede. That takes me back...
ETA: Not so many "gruesome" costumes around here. Lots of superheroes, about a gazillion Elsas from Frozen, and a bunch of teen girls in "as skimpy as Mom and Dad will let me get away with" and bobbly antennae, devil horns or similar. About 1% home-made creative costumes.
[ 01. November 2014, 19:41: Message edited by: Leorning Cniht ]
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Whatever the Styx ruling, within the Purgatory hosts' remit, all participants are reminded that pond war fuelling, accusations of pond war fuelling, junior hosting, and disregard for the Ten Commandments and hostly interventions are not to be indulged in here.
/hosting
Noted.
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Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
The latest innovation here in So. Cal. is trunk-or-treat-- when the church members bring their cars to the parking lot, open up decorated trunks filled with candy, so the neighborhood kiddos can trick-or-treat from trunk to trunk. Can make a nice option for neighborhoods where trick-or-treating is unsafe (or, in my neighborhood, where newly arrived immigrants find the practice bewildering and are caught unprepared). As with the other options mentioned here, it's often just a tag-on to the rest of the trick-or-treating, but has the advantage of losing some of the joykiller aspect of some church festivals.
This discussion got me thinking about probably my favorite Halloween episode of any TV show-- Nothing Sacred-- an American show, cancelled too soon when it's frank and honest portrayals of religious life caused too much controversy among the exact same sort who'd run a "light and bright" party. The episode had many interweaving themes with their dealing with the reality of evil-- domestic abuse, poverty, sickness, etc. The culmination was a trunk-or-treat in their inner-city parish parking lot for the neighborhood children, followed by this hauntingly beautiful closing sequence where they gathered around a bonfire and tossed in sticks representing all the ways fear had held them back in the last year. It closed with the Breastplate of St. Patrick.
Someday I'm gonna do that.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jenn.:
I feel frustrated by light parties. My kids know that the world is scary sometimes. They need to remember that God is with them in the dark, not to pretend it doesn't exist.
Precisely. It seems that churches who like them often have problems with seeing God in the world outside their church bubbles.
God is there in the dark. God is there when life is crap, not just when everything is lovely. Or he is no God at all.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
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Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I don't think Mudfrog would turn his nose up at all US imports, any more than I would - but on this one I'd agree that the Americanisation of Hallowe'en is a pretty reprehensible development.
The thing is, it's not Americanization. It's borrowing some aspects of American Halloween without their original context.
Moo
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Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
We've just had our first Halloween in Canada. Scores of kids in fancy dress saying "Happy Halloween!" and then taking (politely) some sweets, whilst parents watched from the street to make sure all was well. It was great fun.
I especially loved some of the smaller kids dressed up as incredibly cute monsters. But we also had batman, a couple of princesses, a scarecrow and the complete cast of Scream.
I'll admit that I am old enough to remember the older Halloween traditions in the UK and to feel a little saddened that they have been pretty much overwhelmed by "trick or treat". But I've never seen the point in these "Bright and Light" parties. All they do is mark out Christians as boring and stuffy.
What I observed last night was an event where one of the primary purposes seems to be the nourishing of community life. Loads of people out on the streets and on the doorsteps saying "hi" to one another. Far better for Christians to be involved with that, than stuck away in a church hall somewhere pretending to have "better fun".
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Jenn.
Shipmate
# 5239
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Posted
Oscar, I'd agree if that was what I saw on the streets at Halloween. Mostly the streets are empty(ish) and lots of people hide in their homes (and I do mean hide - lights off and don't answer the door). That isn't community building. Halloween in the UK is just weird.
Posts: 2282 | From: England | Registered: Nov 2003
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I don't think Mudfrog would turn his nose up at all US imports, any more than I would - but on this one I'd agree that the Americanisation of Hallowe'en is a pretty reprehensible development.
The thing is, it's not Americanization. It's borrowing some aspects of American Halloween without their original context.
Moo
I think that's fair comment. It could be added that the "light and shite" parties (as Malcolm Tucker would doubtless call them) involve borrowing the neurotic aspects of US evangelicalism without its more positive aspects.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
When I was a kid my church had a regular Halloween party for the little kids. Costumes, Halloween games (bobbing for apples, apple on a string, those are the two I remember but there were more) and prizes for the best costume. The adult helpers came in costume too. When i was older the youth group threw a Halloween party for ourselves as well, again costumes, treats, and games. It was all a lovely fun time and all church sanctioned. Some of my happiest childhood Halloween-related memories.
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
It depends where you are in the UK.
Obviously I didn't get to experience Halloween in Scotland this year, and last year was awkward. But, we had small groups of local children knock on doors (those with porch lights on and other decorations to be welcoming) and 'guising *. Which seems much more fun than just getting given sweets for doing nothing more than saying "trick or treat". I spent an hour walking around with the group of parents who were making sure everyone was OK, that they all watched for traffic when crossing the road, no one went to any of the houses with porch lights off, carrying the carrier bags full of sweets since little hands can only carry so much. Most of the time we don't let ourselves just chat with neighbours, much less walk up to their doors. Fun for kids, and community building for parents.
I can see it working much better in areas where there isn't much traffic, cul-de-sacs or other quite roads. I can certainly see it as a logistic nightmare in denser urban settings with heavy traffic, lots of flats with security entrances etc.
We were discussing Halloween traditions on Friday at work. It's a festival that has no roots here at all (the traditional commemoration for the dead is in the summer). We all had a common experience of when it started to become a big festival with trick-or-treat and costumes - it was following the release of the movie "E.T.".
* 'guising is the more traditional Scottish activity that has similarities to 'trick or treat', costumes and visiting houses getting sweets. The difference is that the door step visit involves singing songs, telling jokes, a bit of dancing or some other form of entertainment for the householder.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jenn.:
Oscar, I'd agree if that was what I saw on the streets at Halloween. Mostly the streets are empty(ish) and lots of people hide in their homes (and I do mean hide - lights off and don't answer the door). That isn't community building. Halloween in the UK is just weird.
Agreed. It's an attempt to imitate Halloween as seen on TV and in film. But all that people have imitated is the "trick or treat" begging for sweets. Almost none of the American hospitality and friendliness has been incorporated. I've experienced more than enough awkward Halloweens in the UK, which is why I found this one in Canada so different.
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Mili
Shipmate
# 3254
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Posted
Is it a newer thing for evangelicals to be anti-Halloween? My dad grew up in Ethiopia as an Australian missionary kid and attended a boarding school where most of the other kids where the children on missionaries from the US and Canada. The school celebrated Halloween each year with a costume parade. I think the focus was on funny, original costumes rather than scary ones.
My dad had no idea what Halloween was his first school year so the other kids told him just to wear something funny. So he wore his clothes backwards and his underpants on his head! I don't think he ever lived it down.
The next year his parents made sure he and his brother had proper costumes. This despite the fact that they were strict Methodists who at the time were taught even going to the cinema was evil. (They've become far less legalistic over the years).
Posts: 1015 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Aug 2002
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
I went to a fairly conservative Baptist church while growing up, and I don't remember there being any talk of Halloween being a bad thing when I was a kid.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mili:
Is it a newer thing for evangelicals to be anti-Halloween? My dad grew up in Ethiopia as an Australian missionary kid and attended a boarding school where most of the other kids where the children on missionaries from the US and Canada. The school celebrated Halloween each year with a costume parade. I think the focus was on funny, original costumes rather than scary ones. *snip*
In my eastern Ontario childhood, the local Baptists were not contra-hallowenial, but the Pentecostals definitely were. They were only ones against Hallowe'en when I was a child (aside from some Franco-Ontarian antic-clericals who were primarily against Hallowe'en as an English word and against the Christian feast of All Saints).
Anti-Hallowe'en sentiment seems to have increased in recent years. Friends of mine who evangelical-home school tell me that their (mainly US-origin) material has anti-Hallowe'en programming-- they were taken aback when I pointed out that as the vigil of All Saints, it had Xn origins. It is fair to note that the Xn links do feature in some home school materials, but there seems to be a great deal of historical ignorance here. The local RC school board (Ontario has a publicly-funded separate system) RE materials do relate to this, of course, and Mass assembly material for All Saints has a fair bit-- there is referencing to Haitian and Central American folk practices for the feast, as well as to the nigh-disappeared French Canadian and Irish customs of remembering families' recent dead.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
I went to a fairly conservative Baptist church while growing up, and I don't remember there being any talk of Halloween being a bad thing when I was a kid.
One of my little school mates had a mom who was a full on holy roller-- house stuffed with Chick tracts, the works. She tried to campaign for the abolition of Halloween in our neighborhood, but it didn't take.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
The roots of the current fundy hatred of Halloween are about as old as the roots of the "War on Christmas" nonsense, and just about as deep.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
quote:
originally posted by Mudfrog:
We had no pumpkins - we hollowed out a swede. Have you ever tried that???
No, but my in laws are all Norwegians and there have been Christmases where I was tempted.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Prester John
Shipmate
# 5502
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
quote:
originally posted by Mudfrog:
We had no pumpkins - we hollowed out a swede. Have you ever tried that???
No, but my in laws are all Norwegians and there have been Christmases where I was tempted.
If your in-laws are Norwegian they probably relish the idea of hollowing out a Swede or two.
Posts: 884 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Feb 2004
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
The sad thing about Halloween is that most participants are completely ignorant of the festival and celebration of All Saints. I don't mind kids having a bit of fun dressing up and having a party as long as they don't go knocking on strangers' doors begging (a very dangerous activity). However, kids should also be exposed to the beautiful side of life and death with joyful memories of those we have loved/admired who have died and gone to eternal rest.
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
We celebrated Halloween/ All Saints/ All Souls with a rousing rendition of For All The Saints Who From Their Labour Rest to Williams's version, arguably the best hymn tune produced by the twentieth century.
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
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