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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Planning your own funeral? Why?
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nenya:
I just think cremation seems a terribly violent thing to do to a body that has served you well for so many years. What do Shipmates think?
I've dug quite a few graves by hand, sometimes the graves were in ground previously used for burials two hundred, or more, years ago. It always gave me a feeling of peace to find a few old bones and coffin remnants that had lain undisturbed all that time*.
Both me and my partner have requested to be buried , preferably in an old peaceful churchyard. I don't feel the actual location is all that important.
*The remains I found were always replaced in the new grave on the funeral day, (when no-one was looking).
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
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Posted
Those of us who have been through chaotic funeral preparations based on scraps of paper seem more likely to want to be more organised. As another childless person with few relatives, I'm quite happy with Anselmina's plan. Cremate me and plant me under a rose bush, and read John Donne's "Bring us, O Lord God, at our last awakening."
However, I have downloaded the resource Pidwidgeon linked to, as its one of the better such documents I've seen in terms of surviving family being able to track down accounts and insurance policies and knowing who to contact. My partner and I are currently trying to negotiate the morass of my father-in-law's accounting system - accounts in three countries and three different cities in NZ, insurance policies with seven different companies, multiple bank accounts with tiny amounts in them, no filing system for anything, which means we've had to go through every single piece of paper in the house...... Its taken three months just to feel confident we've identified everything that might be relevant, let alone do anything about it.
As a result, we've put all our details in one place, indexed for convenience so whichever of our nieces or friends ends up sorting out shouldn't have too much trouble. And we've made copies which have been given to the current executor of our wills, and our lawyer.
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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
FWIW I've been quite clear I want to be buried. Into the church to Dido's Lament, hymns are Eternal Father Strong to Save, O Valiant Hearts, and, just to confuse the attendees, From Greenland's Icy Mountains to the usual tune of The Church's One Foundation ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Out to Oft in the Stilly Night. A lifetime of public school and military worship not wasted there......
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And is it true? For if it is....
Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chenab:
Can I add one point - if leaving instructions then please make sure people know where to find them. From the Funeral Director side we very rarely (thankfully) have people who have got part way through arranging a funeral and then discovered a note or set of instructions indicating that something different was wanted.
And make sure more than one person knows about them. The Funeral from Hell I alluded to above the deceased had left very careful instructions with the beloved visitation pastor who faithfully visited her every week... but passed away a month before she did.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
I'm with you on the verbless announcement - ghastly.Not too happy with the use of 'suddenly' when the person is 80+ either - surely a better word is 'unexpectedly'?
As for the obsequies:
posted by Bernard Mahler quote:
Music - I have laid down, NO CRIMOND
I'm with you there - and no Abide with me either, or anything by Henry Scott Holland.
I've left strict instructions on some things and left some leeway on others.
Music: I would like the Nunc dimmittis from the setting by Dyson in F and Nina Simone singing My baby don't care at some point.
Of course, no instructions left about a funeral are legally binding so you just have to hope whoever ends up putting it all together takes your wishes into account.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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chenab
Apprentice
# 18278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Of course, no instructions left about a funeral are legally binding so you just have to hope whoever ends up putting it all together takes your wishes into account.
Those left by the matriach of Romany or Fairground families are about as close to binding as you can get I reckon. In those societies it would be a brave person who went against what instructions had been left.
[code]
[ 29. November 2014, 22:31: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
Posts: 14 | Registered: Nov 2014
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Of course, no instructions left about a funeral are legally binding so you just have to hope whoever ends up putting it all together takes your wishes into account.
Surely it's binding if you actually put it into your Will? My mother put into hers her desire to be buried in the local churchyard rather than cremated.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814
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Posted
Cliffdweller said:
quote:
My personal preference would be to not be embalmed, but be buried wrapped in a pretty cotton sheet that would easily decompose as we are meant to do, in a pleasant place where there's room for the (future hoped-for) grandkids to run around and play while the kids reminisce about their old mom. Plant a tree to soak up all those nutrients and provide some shade to picnic under.
I like this idea. There are now natural burial grounds in New Zealand where this can be done.
And like Susan Doris:
quote:
I have also said that I want no euphemisms like 'passed away' etc. I'll be [dead, I will be, like the parrot, dead]
A funeral is a place where friends and family say farewell to the deceased. I'm coming to see it as the place where I also say farewell to my friends and family.
GG
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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113
Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Surely it's binding if you actually put it into your Will? My mother put into hers her desire to be buried in the local churchyard rather than cremated.
Nope. Your body isn't property, and you're quite possibly dead and buried before anyone even reads your will.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Of course, no instructions left about a funeral are legally binding so you just have to hope whoever ends up putting it all together takes your wishes into account.
Surely it's binding if you actually put it into your Will? My mother put into hers her desire to be buried in the local churchyard rather than cremated.
No, as has been said upthread, it's one of the only parts of a will that's not legally binding. So much depends on money re funerals - they are hideously expensive. Also what if a specified churchyard has run out of room by then?
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
Also (sorry for the double post) I would like to donate my body to medical science. I'm not sure how this would work out with the kind of funeral I want (memorial service rather, in this case). Can you have a requiem mass without a body there?
I know medical schools hold memorial services after they have finished using bodies. I would like to be cremated, since overcrowding of cemeteries is a real issue and I can't justify my body taking up such needed space. A tree planted in my memory with a small plaque will do just fine.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Contact the medical institution you propose to donate to -- they must deal with this issue all the time, and have a protocol in place. I would select one close to you if possible. Shipping bodies is expensive.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pomona:
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Of course, no instructions left about a funeral are legally binding so you just have to hope whoever ends up putting it all together takes your wishes into account.
Surely it's binding if you actually put it into your Will? My mother put into hers her desire to be buried in the local churchyard rather than cremated.
No, as has been said upthread, it's one of the only parts of a will that's not legally binding. So much depends on money re funerals - they are hideously expensive. Also what if a specified churchyard has run out of room by then?
My aunt specified that she was not to be buried until three days after her death. Fortunately her lawyer knew and the interment was duly postponed.
GG
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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113
Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SusanDoris:
I have also said that I want no euphemisms like 'passed away' etc. I'll be [dead, I will be, like the parrot, dead]!! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
In my funeral plan I have left instructions to include the hymn All Creatures of Our God and King, with the note that, if verses are to be omitted due to length, this verse MUST be sung:
quote:
And thou, most kind and gentle death,
waiting to hush our latest breath,
O praise him, Alleluia!
Thou leadest home the child of God,
and Christ our Lord the way hath trod:
O praise Him, Alleluia!
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Stejjie
Shipmate
# 13941
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Posted
When we were doing "funeral training" at college, one of our tutors said that at the beginning of the service, he always said "We are gathered to remember/give thanks for the life of X who has died", rather than any of the euphemisms. He reckoned it was important that we acknowledged what exactly has happened to this person, what it is we're dealing with, rather than hiding behind the alternative words.
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A not particularly-alt-worshippy, fairly mainstream, mildly evangelical, vaguely post-modern-ish Baptist
Posts: 1117 | From: Urmston, Manchester, UK | Registered: Jul 2008
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nenya:
Nen - who works for a charity and occasionally has to deal with In Memory donations via a funeral director called Burnham and Sons. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
There's a funeral directors in my home town called Box Brothers. It's true.
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Contact the medical institution you propose to donate to -- they must deal with this issue all the time, and have a protocol in place. I would select one close to you if possible. Shipping bodies is expensive.
Surely my question is an issue for the church my memorial service is held in, and nothing to do with the medical institution? My body will already be in the institution by this point. In any case, I am (hopefully) 50+ years away from dying and who knows where I will be living then!
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Music: I would like the Nunc dimmittis from the setting by Dyson in F and Nina Simone singing My baby don't care at some point.
I too would like to add something popular/ modern (Art Garfunkel's "Grateful") to traditional hymns and music and I'd be really interested to know how you'd work this one into a traditional church setting.
Also, betjemaniac, thank you, yes my Dad was indeed quite a character and a remarkable man.
On a more general note we're hoping that nothing untoward occurs whilst we are working here in Kenya as our daughters have understandably said that in such an event they'd want us shipped back to the UK and the funeral to be held there....
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"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
Posts: 693 | From: UK/ Kenya | Registered: Apr 2013
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chenab
Apprentice
# 18278
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Posted
As has been said - any instructions in a will for funeral arrangements are advisory to the executors, not binding. Although it is rare for them not to be followed. Most people check the will before getting too far in the arrangements anyway.
If you plan to donate your body in some way to medical science that needs to be sorted preferably long before death, it is not something that can really be sorted out afterwards.
Posts: 14 | Registered: Nov 2014
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
quote:
Originally posted by Nenya:
Nen - who works for a charity and occasionally has to deal with In Memory donations via a funeral director called Burnham and Sons.
There's a funeral directors in my home town called Box Brothers. It's true.
I knew one as a child called Sydney Hurry & Co. They still exist.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
posted by Mrs Beaky quote:
I too would like to add something popular/ modern (Art Garfunkel's "Grateful") to traditional hymns and music and I'd be really interested to know how you'd work this one into a traditional church setting.
Helped with a mate's funeral a couple of year's ago: a cathedral chorister as a child, he was a lover of jazz, opera, ballet, and rugby, had been in the navy and then worked in advertising.
The solution arrived at family, me and another organist) was as follows:
Before the service: 45 minutes of good jazz, the duet from The Pearl Fishers and some ballet music.
Hymns: I vow to thee my country; Guide me O thou great Redeemer; Eternal Father, strong to save
Readings: Revelation 21: 1-8 and Psalm 107:23-31
Sunset played by the band of the royal marines before the eulogy
The Nunc dimittis from Stanford's setting in G as the coffin left the church, then organ music.
With the exception of Sunset all the secular stuff was before the service (which was BCP with additions) started.
Looks like a lot but didn't take long and seemed to cover all the bases.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
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Posted
Thanks L'organist.
Another question to you and others.
I attended the funeral of an old friend in a wonderful old village church.
We sang hymns and Bob Marley's "Don't worry" all played on the organ but they also played a couple of things from a CD which just got lost in the space- the acoustics/ sound system were not up to it.
Is this something to bear in mind when planning your own funeral?
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"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
Posts: 693 | From: UK/ Kenya | Registered: Apr 2013
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
I operated the sound system for a church funeral* which had a lot of non-traditional music - Kinks, Black Crowes, the sort of stuff he played himself. That sound system isn't too bad for something playing over it for entrance and exit, but really wasn't great for sitting and listening to music. I could only up the volume so loud without distortion, so it was all very nice and polite.
* the deceased was in his 40s leaving young family and widow, he'd died of an aggressive cancer discovered late. His coffin was painted amazingly - the Stones' tongue and lips amongst other things - and the music really summed him up. It was a huge funeral - 400 odd people there - so it had to be a church, not crem.
I actually operated the sound for quite a few funerals, weddings and baptisms, many of these services for people I knew too†, but this one stood out as being particularly challenging. Lots of Always look on the Bright Side of Life on the way out of church, or other such music, but not usually all the way through like this one. The widow and I did try out all the music the day before to see how loudly we could play it and to check that all the tracks worked. It also gave her some quiet time in church before the madness of a huge funeral.
† the hardest included a lady with Alzheimer's who I'd shaken hands with at the Peace for years, at the same time as Erin's funeral and the suicide of a neighbour my age.
[ 30. November 2014, 13:23: Message edited by: Curiosity killed ... ]
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
Personally, I'm inclining more and more to Inspector Morse's nothing-at-all approach. I have no partner or children, and frankly I don't think any remaining close family that might be around when I pop my clogs will want to be, or should be burdened with any services or ceremonies concerning some peripherally-situated old maiden aunt - good for a laugh or two, but unlikely to necessitate any ceremonious process of grieving or journeying on, as one would with someone who is of important intimate significance.
... though if you have any living family or friends at all, it's nice to give them the option of disregarding your "do nothing" request. We've had several of these this past couple years, and it's surprising who turns out to need the comfort of a funeral--even if minimal. Not always the closest family--they may have said their goodbyes already, and be ready to go along with that. But the somewhat further off relatives and friends--they may have trouble dealing with "no funeral."
I have thought of that point. I'm not convinced that those who are far away and unable to attend would necessarily feel any significant impact if there hadn't been a ceremony, perhaps beyond a feeling that a tradition had been violated? I suppose it might be comforting for far away folks to think 'right now, Auntie Madge is getting a good send-off', assuming that's true. Without feedback on the ceremony it would be hard to know if things went well and had been a worthwhile experience, and suitable for all concerned.
But it's quite true that funerals are often more than merely a focus for commemorating the deceased (in a godly sense or otherwise), so far as attenders are concerned. To be honest, I don't know if I could be selfish enough not to have a funeral! They can be cathartic and useful times, and in terms of church at least one pastoral connection with the community of Christ that might otherwise never happen. I have certainly never conducted or attended a funeral that I thought 'it would've been better not to have done this'!!
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by MrsBeaky:
Thanks L'organist.
Another question to you and others.
I attended the funeral of an old friend in a wonderful old village church.
We sang hymns and Bob Marley's "Don't worry" all played on the organ but they also played a couple of things from a CD which just got lost in the space- the acoustics/ sound system were not up to it.
Is this something to bear in mind when planning your own funeral?
This is a good point. Some church acoustics are atrocious where CD players, just plugged into the wall, are concerned. A properly integrated sound systerm is sometimes the only thing that really works for recorded music. We can learn a lot from the crem industry in this regard, most crems usually having good sound systems for recorded stuff. Perhaps getting the relatives to have a run-through of their music in the building, see what they think, is a useful practical idea. If time allows, of course!
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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kingsfold
Shipmate
# 1726
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Posted
quote:
posted by Bernard Mahler:
Music - I have laid down, NO CRIMOND
Preach it brother. I've not told my family this yet, but certainly friends know that if anyone schedules Crimond (or indeed abide with me) I'm coming back to haunt them.
Posts: 4473 | From: land of the wee midgie | Registered: Nov 2001
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
I had to do a funeral for a train enthusiast (so was the right person to ask!) The family - quite rightly - wanted some appropriate music. After a little thought we settled on "The Coronation Scot". The difficulty lay in actually sourcing it - but we managed.
"Pacific 231" wouldn't have hit the spot in quite the same way.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
My children have promised me a verb, but refuse to commit to any particular verb. "Died" would do nicely, but I fear they have other plans, verb-wise. ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
Recently most of the West Virginia obituaries are saying, "Mrs. Hillbilly-name Twilight went to be with Jesus." Count yourself lucky you folks only Suddenly.
This thread has prompted me to get out my purple spiral notebook of Important Information and I'm adding a Funeral Wishes page right after my Spring Cleaning Checklist. So far it looks like this:
1. Cremation
2. ?
Is a few words at the cremation place alright for a good ELCA Lutheran? I haven't lived in this town long and could never fill a church with mourners. What if I don't want my son to have to look at an urn of ashes or worry about planting me where the Dachshund won't dig me up? Can the ashes be buried at a cemetery?
My husband plays his trumpet for his church and his best piece is an "Amazing Grace," solo. I think he would want to play it, but do you do that at cremation sites?
I would like my Lutheran minister to read something from the Book of Worship, but can she do that at the crematorium? About how long is that? I really want it to be over and done as quickly as possible with the least amount of stress for my son who will be, almost literally, beside himself.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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Japes
Shipmate
# 5358
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by kingsfold:
quote:
posted by Bernard Mahler:
Music - I have laid down, NO CRIMOND
Preach it brother. I've not told my family this yet, but certainly friends know that if anyone schedules Crimond (or indeed abide with me) I'm coming back to haunt them.
Ah... kindred spirits.
I've changed my funeral suggestions many times over the last 30 years, but the one constant has been - No 23rd Psalm, especially as sung to Crimond, under any circumstances. There will be haunting otherwise.
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Blog may or may not be of any interest.
Posts: 2013 | From: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: Dec 2003
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Japes:
I've changed my funeral suggestions many times over the last 30 years, but the one constant has been - No 23rd Psalm, especially as sung to Crimond, under any circumstances. There will be haunting otherwise.
You dare post that on St. Andrew's Day, of all days?
The entire Glasgow Orpheus Choir will be coming to haunt you any moment now: here they come!
[ 30. November 2014, 16:50: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
In the case of my mother, who unchurched herself aged 32 or so when the local church went evangelical, she knew it was going to be Anglican, which narrowed it down slightly, but that still left room for argument. Not just hymns, but liturgy. CW would do, but because she didn't say anything at all it became a matter of aesthetics. BCP was won, after a long discussion, but then there was discussion about which. I strongly favoured 1928, but it was easier to back down than dig in. If she'd just said..
On the money point, if it all comes down to it, you can get a pauper's burial.
It occurs to me though that many ordinary elderly people facing death probably don't care one way or the other about hymns or liturgies. After all, church life is very often about putting up with choices made by other people.
In the Nonconformist churches there isn't really a choice of funeral liturgies, and one hears the same selection of hymns from one funeral to another. So there's less to worry about, I imagine.
Regarding paupers' funerals, I wasn't really thinking about those. Spending sensibly (or even stingily) doesn't mean you have to give your relative a pauper's funeral.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
IME the average CofE church which falls into the broad category of beautiful, ancient and probably listed is unlikely to have a 'sound system', certainly not one capable of having music played over it at sufficient volume to fill the space and not be distorted; non-commercial boom-boxes are not a solution either.
With the funeral referred to above we called in a favour from a chap who had been a commercial sound engineer and had all the kit. I know from my own church that trying to use CDs played on a domestic player when church is full (acoustically people act like soft furnishings and soak up the sound) is pointless; in cases like this we gently suggest that they have the CD stuff at the wake...
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
It occurs to me though that many ordinary elderly people facing death probably don't care one way or the other about hymns or liturgies. After all, church life is very often about putting up with choices made by other people.
Which is why my mother has specified the hymns she wants but nothing else - her theology is well to the left of her church's.
My large farming family come to funerals for the social aspects, seeing each other, sharing family news. I can't imagine not having a funeral for my mum's generation of family, particularly not a funeral without a knees-up afterwards.
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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
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Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by Japes:
I've changed my funeral suggestions many times over the last 30 years, but the one constant has been - No 23rd Psalm, especially as sung to Crimond, under any circumstances. There will be haunting otherwise.
You dare post that on St. Andrew's Day, of all days?
The entire Glasgow Orpheus Choir will be coming to haunt you any moment now: here they come!
Oh dear: I got 'This video is not available'. Maybe it's on my CD.
GG
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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113
Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arabella Purity Winterbottom:
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
It occurs to me though that many ordinary elderly people facing death probably don't care one way or the other about hymns or liturgies. After all, church life is very often about putting up with choices made by other people.
Which is why my mother has specified the hymns she wants but nothing else - her theology is well to the left of her church's.
My large farming family come to funerals for the social aspects, seeing each other, sharing family news. I can't imagine not having a funeral for my mum's generation of family, particularly not a funeral without a knees-up afterwards.
Mothers like yours are probably an exception. Most British people don't seem to leave instructions. Churchgoers are probably more likely to do so, but my guess is it's still only a minority of them. I don't know if any research has been done on this, but it's often said that death is the last taboo in our culture.
I agree that funerals are often great social occasions.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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rolyn
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# 16840
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Posted
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Originally posted by chenab:
If you plan to donate your body in some way to medical science that needs to be sorted preferably long before death, it is not something that can really be sorted out afterwards.
I used to have an organ donation card but rarely have my wallet when driving. Have heard of a tag you can fix to a key-ring so ought to investigate that.
If I'm fortunate enough to die of old age then my daughter may remember that I rather fancied Freddie Mercury's Those were the days of our lives being played at my funeral. If not then it's for those few left to decide what they think is appropriate.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
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Leorning Cniht
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# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Most British people don't seem to leave instructions.
My (British) grandmother left instructions - that is, she left a list of the hymns and readings she wanted to have included, a request that there be no floral tributes, but donations to a particular charity instead, and a little note at the end that said "These are only suggestions. Change anything you want." These instructions, together with her will, insurance documents, list of bank accounts and so on were kept in the bag in the cupboard that she had ready to grab in case her house ever happened to burn down. I still smile abut that bag.
I'm pretty convinced that if the rapture had happened in her lifetime, it would have found her sitting in the hall, in her coat and hat with handbag firmly clasped on her knees.
[ 30. November 2014, 20:47: Message edited by: Leorning Cniht ]
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JoannaP
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# 4493
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Posted
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Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
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Originally posted by Anselmina:
Personally, I'm inclining more and more to Inspector Morse's nothing-at-all approach. I have no partner or children, and frankly I don't think any remaining close family that might be around when I pop my clogs will want to be, or should be burdened with any services or ceremonies concerning some peripherally-situated old maiden aunt - good for a laugh or two, but unlikely to necessitate any ceremonious process of grieving or journeying on, as one would with someone who is of important intimate significance.
... though if you have any living family or friends at all, it's nice to give them the option of disregarding your "do nothing" request. We've had several of these this past couple years, and it's surprising who turns out to need the comfort of a funeral--even if minimal. Not always the closest family--they may have said their goodbyes already, and be ready to go along with that. But the somewhat further off relatives and friends--they may have trouble dealing with "no funeral."
My great-aunt, an ex-nurse, donated her body to medical science, so we went to a memorial service for all those who had donated their bodies that year. It was a really nice service but, as Dad said, if you hadn't realised that your loved one's corpse was going to be dissected by undergraduates beforehand, you were very clear on that by the end of the service. The "sermon" was on the importance to medical students of studying anatomy.
It was excellent as we could have a service remembering her without the hassle of organising a funeral the other side of the country which would only be sparsely attended (she had outlived most of her friends. I do pity the consultant a couple of years previously whom she told off for wasting NHS resources by resuscitating her after a heart attack!).
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
I'm pretty convinced that if the rapture had happened in her lifetime, it would have found her sitting in the hall, in her coat and hat with handbag firmly clasped on her knees.
Awesome. ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
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cliffdweller
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# 13338
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Posted
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Originally posted by Twilight:
Is a few words at the cremation place alright for a good ELCA Lutheran? I haven't lived in this town long and could never fill a church with mourners. What if I don't want my son to have to look at an urn of ashes or worry about planting me where the Dachshund won't dig me up? Can the ashes be buried at a cemetery?
The cemeteries around here often above-ground niche walls for interring ashes. Some churches have similar arrangements-- more so then cemeteries these days, since they take up so much less space. You can also have your ashes scattered at sea or other locale. There are even some other creative options-- mixed with seeds to become a tree or other plant, or mixed into fireworks to make a very vivid (but not very lasting) memorial.
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
My husband plays his trumpet for his church and his best piece is an "Amazing Grace," solo. I think he would want to play it, but do you do that at cremation sites?
I would like my Lutheran minister to read something from the Book of Worship, but can she do that at the crematorium? About how long is that? I really want it to be over and done as quickly as possible with the least amount of stress for my son who will be, almost literally, beside himself.
Don't Lutherans have the option of a memorial service at the church rather than a funeral? In the Presbyterian church this is our preference-- a memorial held in the church w/o the body (or ashes) present. Internment is usually a much smaller affair attended only by close family and perhaps the minister, usually no music (although a lone trumpet solo of Amazing Grace, outdoors at grave/niche side could be quite beautiful). They usually last only 15 or 20 minutes, and can be held either before or after the memorial service, or even on a different day entirely.
[ 30. November 2014, 23:43: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
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Brenda Clough
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# 18061
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Posted
If you really want to be creative with your ashes, there are millions of possibilities. Everything from being mixed in with a firework, shot off into outer space, put into a coral reef, to being transformed into a diamond.
And even 'traditional' funerals can be eye-poppingly creative. The US Coast Guard recently did a Viking funeral, shoving the deceased off to sea in a burning boat -- you can google on it. And there is a firm (in California, naturally) that will mummify you in the style last favored in Ancient Egypt -- linen wrappings, coffin, canopic jars and all. For a small upcharge you can take your cat or dog along a well.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Ashes can be buried, as well as kept in urns. A funeral director can lay out all your options. (we looked into this for one man.)
And your Lutheran pastor can be very flexible--I'm LCMS, and even though we have a rep as stiff and stodgy, we have very few constraints on what we do for people around death and funerals. (The only limit I can think of off hand is we won't do double-faith funerals--no fair worshipping Grandma in the coffin if it's in a Lutheran church.)
Talk to your pastor, and explain the situation. It shouldn't be a problem.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Lothlorien
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# 4927
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Posted
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I've changed my funeral suggestions many times over the last 30 years, but the one constant has been - No 23rd Psalm, especially as sung to Crimond, under any circumstances. There will be haunting otherwise.
I attended the funeral of the mother of a relative by marriage. It was held at the funeral parlour of the undertaker with a cremation to follow. Cremation was at crematorium with no service at all.
The funeral was conducted by a celebrant and the family had little idea what should be done. They had obviously thought of a Bible reading. Psalm 23 was read twice as that was what had been chosen without consultation with the other reader. Perhaps it was the only thing they knew.
At the end, the celebrant announced we could pray to whatever deity we believed in. As we left, several old women, friends of the deceased discussed the funeral. "She would have loved it," was their conclusion.
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Buy a bale. Help our Aussie rural communities and farmers. Another great cause needing support The High Country Patrol.
Posts: 9745 | From: girt by sea | Registered: Aug 2003
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Enoch
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# 14322
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Posted
Contrary to widespread belief, cremains aren't actually all that good for the soil. The nutrients that are in the bone meal fertilisers that garden centres sell, get burnt off by the cremation. We like to think of the ashes nourishing a tree that will grow in our memory but what's left over after the burning may even be technically hazardous waste.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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Pomona
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# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chenab:
As has been said - any instructions in a will for funeral arrangements are advisory to the executors, not binding. Although it is rare for them not to be followed. Most people check the will before getting too far in the arrangements anyway.
If you plan to donate your body in some way to medical science that needs to be sorted preferably long before death, it is not something that can really be sorted out afterwards.
I'm aware of this - but surely it doesn't need sorting out 50+ years in advance? I'm 25, and living in a hopefully temporary location.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Gee D
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# 13815
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Posted
I can't speak for other States/Territories, but in NSW your wish to donate your organs is noted on your driver's licence. As most adults here would be licensed drivers, such a wish is easily traced and given effect.
[ 01. December 2014, 08:48: Message edited by: Gee D ]
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
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L'organist
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# 17338
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Posted
In the UK many people have fillings in their teeth containing mercury and that isn't necessarily picked up at the crematorium.
Crematoria now have a problem with replacement body parts and modern medical devices: pacemakers explode so should be removed before cremation; replacement hips, thighs, etc, melt - if metal this can be collected by the plastic/nylon versions produce dioxins when burned. Titanium plates, even though made from an alloy, have scrap value - someone with spinal rods should tell their relatives because, depending on the length of the rod(s), they could fetch a decent amount.
Breast implants present another potential hazard since silicon burns a lot hotter than carbon and other materials and produces silicate which gets bound around other body parts so you get a clump of material.
What to do with your cremated remains? Well, my other half went into the sea, as per request, which is about the best solution. One local church has a special plot for cremated remains and with all the little stones it looks like a pet cemetery.
Most elegant solution I've seen in a churchyard is where the cremated remains are buried at random between full sized graves and the names of the people are on plaques on a memorial wall.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Adeodatus
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# 4992
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Posted
Funeral rites are much more important than many people believe. The funeral is an important milestone in the rites of passage of a person's family and friends as they move from their status of "X's mum/son/husband/friend" through their new status of "person grieving for X" and then on to whatever label their social circle sticks on them next. This is why alarm bells of varying intensity often sound in my head when people say "We want it to be a celebration." I always want to say, "Then when are you going to get together to cry?"
As an old-fashioned Anglo-Catholic I also believe that "Masses on the earth and prayers in heaven" (to quote Newman) can help the deceased. To begin with, I sincerely hope that the last thing I hear in life will be a priest saying the Proficiscere, "Go forth upon thy journey...", after I've been anointed. When it comes to the funeral itself, my own (written) desire is for a quiet requiem mass in black. (None of this new-fangled violet!) I doubt there'll be much of a congregation, but a generous handful might manage to sing "Be still my soul" and "And now, O Father, mindful of the love". Then it's off to the crem where I'd like a committal accompanied by a recording of Gundula Janowitz singing Strauss' Beim Schlafengehen, just because.
[ 01. December 2014, 10:43: Message edited by: Adeodatus ]
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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cliffdweller
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# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Crematoria now have a problem with replacement body parts and modern medical devices: pacemakers explode so should be removed before cremation; replacement hips, thighs, etc, melt - if metal this can be collected by the plastic/nylon versions produce dioxins when burned. Titanium plates, even though made from an alloy, have scrap value - someone with spinal rods should tell their relatives because, depending on the length of the rod(s), they could fetch a decent amount.
As grizzly as it may sound, some of them are retrieved prior to burial/cremation. This was the case with my father, who had an implanted defibulator. When he died, the device registered the lack of heartbeat. We were contacted promptly by the medical device company to make arrangements to have the device removed (where, I presume, it is refurbished to be reused by another patient) prior to burial.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
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