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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Why do people wish to get drunk, and otherwise stupefy themselves?
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Having again observed a few people do this recently, being a time of year when it is done, it seems.
I'd like to think the need to deal with a difficult reality being approximately the same reason religion and the arts have a purchase on our attention. Thus, with a better formed society which met needs we'd have less. But I think this is far too simple. Maybe it's part of our violence, which we also turn against ourselves which sounds Freudian to me. They are telling me locally it's because it tastes good and everyone does it.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
Some dance to remember some dance to forget.
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Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Why get drunk? Cos it's fun.
Not for those watching you.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
I'll report back. This evening - it being Scotland and Hogmanay - I will unsobering more than somewhat.
However, even in advance of the experiment, I think I can guess my motives. 1. The wines will be good, they will taste nice. 2. There will be good food - and the experience of food+wine is a pleasure greater than its component parts. 3. There will be people I know well and while we would socialise amiably at any time, alcohol will expedite the level at which we talk more and laugh more. 4. It will restore something of the child's unjaded appetite for sensation as we watch the midnight fireworks. 5. It will induce a pleasant feeling of benignity towards all the other people standing about on the wet grass.
So there you have it - food, fun, celebration and universal benevolence -
I often wonder what the Vintners buy
One half so precious as the Goods they sell.
[ 31. December 2014, 07:16: Message edited by: Firenze ]
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Macrina
Shipmate
# 8807
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Posted
I think because our consciousness can be an exhausting place to be, zipping all over the place, anxious, insecure, wanting and craving all the time. It's no small wonder people want to get off their faces occasionally to avoid it.
Of course there are other ways to address this but a New Years Eve preceded by several years of silent meditation might not be quite what most are after.
Posts: 535 | From: Christchurch, New Zealand | Registered: Nov 2004
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
Getting mellow with a few friends and a couple of glasses of the best stuff is extremely pleasant.
Getting rat-arsed and throwing up in the street is disgusting, dangerous, anti social and foul.
Finding the difference between these two is what universities are for.
![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Russ
Old salt
# 120
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
So there you have it - food, fun, celebration and universal benevolence
That would describe the Southern European culture of drinking wine socially. But I thought no_prophet was asking about the Northern European culture of (often young) men anti-socially drinking beer and spirits with the deliberate intention of getting plastered.
Some of it may be a macho competition to see who can hold their drink best. But I guess (no personal experience) that some of it's to do with trying to turn off that part of the brain which points out that what the individual or the group is proposing to do isn't really a good idea.
Best wishes,
Russ
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Wish everyone well; the enemy is not people, the enemy is wrong ideas
Posts: 3169 | From: rural Ireland | Registered: May 2001
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
So that older, wiser and better behaved people like us can feel sanctimoniously superior to those younger and more exuberant than ourselves.
There's something particularly irritating about politicians, the medical establishment et al going on and on about the iniquities of under-age drinking when you know that they all did when they were that age. There's something pretty disturbing about anyone who claims that they never drank under age.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Snags
Utterly socially unrealistic
# 15351
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Posted
Actively seeking to get shit-faced? Around here it's a cultural thing; it's what some folk understand by a successful Friday/Saturday night. Most grow out of it. It's also fair to say that the proportion of people getting utterly out of it has (subjectively) decreased in recent years in my town. Big occasions see a peak, but generally I meet more sober/lightly merry folk at 2 a.m. vs rat-arsed ones than 5 years ago.
Personally, with only two exceptions, every time I've been stupidly/puking drunk it has been by accident. When younger we had a social drinking culture, we went out early, we came home late, and we didn't keep count. So I was usually past the point of no return before the penny dropped ("Oops, should have stopped two pints back; oh well, fuck it"). The beer/wine is good, the company is good, it all just flows together and whoops.
Now I'm old and slow I pace better, choose more wisely, and rarely get beyond somewhat jolly. For which my liver, brain and spouse are grateful.
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Vain witterings :-: Vain pretentions :-: The Dog's Blog(locks)
Posts: 1399 | From: just north of That London | Registered: Dec 2009
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
For some people it's a reflection of their insecurity, so they can only relax enough to be themselves in company once they've had a few. Once everyone's had a few, the banter is allowed to be silly and it seems funny to do and say daft things. Plus there's an absolution of responsibility bound up with the culture: everything is excused by the fact that the perpetrator was drunk at the time.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
I think many people, especially young people, who deliberately get drunk are trying to prove something. They think that others will be impressed by their reckless drinking.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
My problem is that I like the taste of the stuff, and the more I drink, the more I enjoy it.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
I asked one of the children this as he was nursing a particularly vicious hangover (I'm all heart)and got this reply:
"I spent my teens from 16-18 watching one parent age by about 10 years while they did their best to continue as breadwinner while simultaneously nursing the other as they died - and keeping up the fiction that the prognosis of 12-15 years was reasonable in the face of all the evidence.
I stayed sober to do my GCSEs, AS and A levels while sticking to the fiction that life was OK and normal.
And now I'm at uni trying to see it as reasonable that when I graduate I'll have instant debt of over £40 grand - and telling me it doesn't have to be paid back straight away doesn't help; frankly its not amazing my generation get smashed so often."
So theres an answer from a not quite 21 year old: its alcohol as painkiller and insulator from reality.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
....and, under our present benevolent and caring Government, alcohol can be obtained relatively cheaply, anywhere, and at any time.
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Because sometimes voluntary stupefaction seems like a better choice than the involuntary stupefaction inflicted by 21st century living.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
It's the culture, innit? What else would people do? I don't drink, but I can't imagine Britain without anyone getting sloshed.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
Have you met reality recently? Anything to escape having to deal with it should be welcomed.
Getting to the point of throwing up, passing out or forgetting that is damaging and silly, but being somewhat inebriated seems like a good reaction to the shit that sobriety brings.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
I've been really, truly drunk only twice in my life. The first time (and NOT underage), it was to try to discover what it was like. People I socialized with seemed to enjoy it (though I echo others in being a less-than-charmed observer). I didn't enjoy it either during or after. I hated feeling I'd lost control of my faculties -- the lack of coordination (hell, I'm not all that coordinated when stone-cold sober), that "stupid" feeling -- ugh; and the hangover afterward that left me fearful I might live.
The second time was by accident, on a New Year's Eve, on, oi veh, champagne. I simply failed to keep track, and next thing I knew, I was curled around a toilet bowl with only blurry memories of how I got there. As for THAT hangover, the less said the better.
I can't look champagne in the eye now, nor will I ever willingly get drunk again. I never have more than two of anything on any occasion, and never more than one in any two-hour period, and can happily forego alcohol completely when a designated driver is needed.
Why people willingly inflict such disability on themselves more than once or twice, I'll never understand. When I want to dodge reality, I retreat into books.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
I think many people, especially young people, who deliberately get drunk are trying to prove something. They think that others will be impressed by their reckless drinking.
Moo
That kind of begs the question, though, doesn't it? Why is reckless drinking impressive? Recklessness of any sort is impressive among the yoof.
If we're going to ask why people drink, whatever answer that comes up has to explain why all sorts of people have been getting drunk and stupefying themselves for literally thousands of years. I think L'organist's young friend nailed it:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
... alcohol as painkiller and insulator from reality.
Alcohol is humanity's oldest and most popular drug. Ever. Everywhere.
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Getting mellow with a few friends and a couple of glasses of the best stuff is extremely pleasant.
Getting rat-arsed and throwing up in the street is disgusting, dangerous, anti social and foul.
Finding the difference between these two is what universities are for.
No. Not at all.
I got rat-arsed far more often at university \t any time since. It was post-university life that brought the education of how to handle alcohol.
What it did take was a lot of trial and error. With an awful lot of error.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Getting mellow with a few friends and a couple of glasses of the best stuff is extremely pleasant.
Getting rat-arsed and throwing up in the street is disgusting, dangerous, anti social and foul.
Finding the difference between these two is what universities are for.
Yep. It was in college where I learned by experience of the dreaded hangover and how being covered in my own puke didn't help my cause as I attempted to sweet talk a certain classmate babe. Now it's a 2-3 beer limit and liquor is never considered.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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The Midge
Shipmate
# 2398
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Posted
When I was younger it took 5-6 pints to get hammered. I can now achieve this state with less than 3. Progress of sorts.
In the British pub culture it is a space where we can suspend half our reserves and talk about something other than the weather. You can't beat a good pub argument.
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Some days you are the fly.
On other days you are the windscreen.
Posts: 1085 | Registered: Feb 2002
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
I have friends who drink for the buzz, love the buzz. (I like the taste of some alcoholic drinks, but hate the buzz).
I have one friend who intentionally drinks until he blacks out. I wonder if boasting about blackout is part of the fun? Or blacking out is proof of how much fun the party was? Surely the headache is terrible? Or maybe not, people are different.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
Many of our homeless clients appear to drink excessively as a way of self-medicating to deal with either mental or physical disabilities. In the US, alcohol is cheaper and easier to obtain that prescription meds which might prove a more effective treatment.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
I'll report back. This evening - it being Scotland and Hogmanay - I will unsobering more than somewhat.
However, even in advance of the experiment, I think I can guess my motives. 1. The wines will be good, they will taste nice. 2. There will be good food - and the experience of food+wine is a pleasure greater than its component parts. 3. There will be people I know well and while we would socialise amiably at any time, alcohol will expedite the level at which we talk more and laugh more. 4. It will restore something of the child's unjaded appetite for sensation as we watch the midnight fireworks. 5. It will induce a pleasant feeling of benignity towards all the other people standing about on the wet grass.
So there you have it - food, fun, celebration and universal benevolence -
I often wonder what the Vintners buy
One half so precious as the Goods they sell.
6. It will increase the stress and adrenaline levels and escalate any differences of opinion (or accidently spilt beer) into a fight
7. It will lead to domestic abuse
8. It will clog up the A&E departments of every hospital across the UK: it's likely that someone somewhere will die unnecessarily as a result of someone else's social drinking that's gone a little antisocial.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Raptor Eye:
everything is excused by the fact that the perpetrator was drunk at the time.
That's been tried on in rape trials for years. Thank God it really doesn't hold water these days.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
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Posted
There are so many reasons, some perhaps good, some certainly not (I don't know that there's ever a good reason for getting absolutely shit-faced, but it's understandable, especially in young, relatively inexperienced drinkers who haven't really learned the math and think that because 3 drinks make you feel good, 6 will feel twice as good. As somebody said, you never really know how much is enough until you find out how much is too much).
1. Alcohol heightens feelings of celebration and conviviality, and can dissolve social barriers.
2. Shame is soluble in alcohol. For people plagued by shame-based shyness and inhibition, it can allow them to participate in enjoyable activities that they otherwise wouldn't (whether this is a good thing depends on what sort of behavior the shame is inhibiting).
3. "Alcohol makes other people less tedious" --Christopher Hitchens. (Why I refuse to go to office parties, since all mine are dry, like most of the people I work with--in entirely different senses).
4. Because it's customary and people do what's expected of them, without necessarily thinking about whether they actually enjoy it or not.
5. Because they are self-medicating for anxiety, depression, or traumatic stress.
I drank a lot in college, partly because I really do enjoy the taste of most alcoholic beverages (I never liked sweet soda drinks, and it was a real revelation the first time I tasted beer), partly because it was the vehicle for most social activity and helped me overcome my shyness, and partly because, having grown up in a teetotal home, I had no scale to measure it by--I didn't have a mental model of moderate drinking. However, I do have a terrible phobia of vomiting, which placed a rather effective limit on my consumption, since the first twinge of nausea put an end to any desire to drink more. I eventually realized that my idea of "disgustingly drunk" aligned with "fairly tipsy" on the scale used by the really serious drinkers. I still drink a bit more than the average adult in the US, but I haven't been really drunk or had a hangover in decades, or ever had problems related to drinking (health, legal, social, etc.) Most young heavy drinkers become more moderate with age, though being in a peer culture that centers around binge drinking can stop that.
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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
- C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
I have friends who drink for the buzz, love the buzz. (I like the taste of some alcoholic drinks, but hate the buzz).
I have one friend who intentionally drinks until he blacks out. I wonder if boasting about blackout is part of the fun? Or blacking out is proof of how much fun the party was? Surely the headache is terrible? Or maybe not, people are different.
Fortunately I've never really suffered from hangovers. I've maybe had about three in my whole life. In my younger years I used to get completely rat arsed, but nowadays I just like to get merry, borderline drunk. It helps me to relax, be more open and to forget my troubles. But then I'm old school. If I'm feeling shit going out with my friends for beers makes me happy again. Hence I love that Homer Simpson quote "To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems."
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Drinking, getting a little relaxed and tipsy, really drunk, and puking are all steps along the road. Certainly it works as an anti-anxiety method, creating bravery, improving singing, attractiveness and helping the intellect. But the root is wanting to be less conscious, no? Results more predictable than prayer?
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Somebody (Samuel Pepys? Lance Morrow?) said that people have an overwhelming desire to Get Out Of Their Own Heads somehow. Any way they can. This accounts for all books, all drama, all movies, all TV, all games. And it accounts for all substance abuse, food addictions, shopping addictions, etc.
So then the question becomes, why is there this awful, driving need? Is it just our fallen state?
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
So then the question becomes, why is there this awful, driving need? Is it just our fallen state?
No. Innate narcissism in those who indulge.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
So then the question becomes, why is there this awful, driving need? Is it just our fallen state?
No. Innate narcissism in those who indulge.
That would seem to be the opposite of what Brenda was describing-- how would someone who drinks to "get out of their own head" be narcissistic?
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
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Posted
If you accept the conception of narcissism as a defense against shame, it makes sense (see my post above: "Shame is soluble in alcohol" which is a quote from psychiatrist Donald Nathanson).
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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
- C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Timothy the Obscure:
5. Because they are self-medicating for anxiety, depression, or traumatic stress.
I didn't drink beer during a severe bout of depression back in the fall of 2011. It was the anhedonia thing, I suppose.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814
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Posted
Furthermore to the OP question – why do they then go totally mad, and wreck a campground and the holiday of hundreds of campers, demolishing and setting fire to tents and tipping cars over. Just because one campground allowed byo alcohol when a summer music festival was on.
I'm too appalled as a New Zealander to post a link to a news item; I would say 99.99% of my countrymen & women are as horrified as I am.
But why did they do it?
GG
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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113
Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
So then the question becomes, why is there this awful, driving need? Is it just our fallen state?
No. Innate narcissism in those who indulge.
That would seem to be the opposite of what Brenda was describing-- how would someone who drinks to "get out of their own head" be narcissistic?
It's all about me and my needs.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
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Posted
GG, that horrified me too. It did sound as thought some of the campers had planned to cause mayhem that was then fuelled by alcohol to go a lot further.
My job takes me into some pretty dark households, and I have some difficulty with the dominant portrait of the irresponsible teen drinker, who usually only harms him/herself (I know this means fatally on occasion, which is terrible), provided s/he doesn't have access to a car.
However: I've worked with a number of families where a parent was almost always drunk, and consequently causing a great deal of damage to the rest of the family - economically, emotionally, physically, and in basic practical ways.
My elders also remember the days of the six o'clock swill when middle-aged men used to spill onto the footpath drunk as skunks and go home and wreak havoc. Having grown up on a vineyard, where we drank responsibly from the age of around 2, I didn't realise until I left home that alcohol got people drunk. Winery folk tend to be very moderate, even stingy drinkers, who drink for the flavours, so drunkenness was a really alien concept.
For me, vis the question asked in the OP, I hate the feeling of my brain being taken over by anything, even mildly. I don't like the idea of having to deal with anything when I'm not fully in control of my brain function. The anaesthetic explanation works for a lot of people, but it scares me - I would rather work through grief, trauma and stress fully conscious and aware.
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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
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Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784
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Posted
I cannot answer why everybody who gets shit faced drunk does that. If I could answer that I would be able to afford assistants to read the Ship and come up with answers for me while I lazed aboard a yacht somewhere sunny, scenic, and warm.
I can tell you why I used to do that.
I was raised to cater to the needs and desires of others. I grew up fat and early on began to dislike myself for being different and in my mind not good enough. The only value I found in myself was what I could accomplish for others.
That model of existence does not work out too well over the long haul. Some of you may be well aware of that fact.
I was, in the words of Bill W., restless, irritable and discontent. Drinking began to become a tool to deal with that restlessness, irritability and discontent. As I used drinking to deal with my unhappiness other things began to grow; like my co-dependency and my belly. This ended up in a snowball effect of the "cure" causing more symptoms that needed more "cure" and so on ad infinitum.
After a while it got to the point that I could not get relief from my feelings until I had drunk enough to pass out. Passed out I had no feelings. When it really got bad alcohol quit working.
It was only when I realized that my life was shit and that I could not - would not - keep going like that that I did something to change. I hated myself more than I can ever express.
So, I went to rehab and started going to AA meetings. Today, I still have issues of self dislike and co-dependency. Now, however, I can spot those feelings coming on and generally redirect them by realizing that they are just my ego trying to take over again. I realize that I am a beloved child of God, as are we all.
God was there waiting for me in my darkest hour and is still with me whenever I let my ego go and pay attention to my greater self (my soul) and how my greater self is a part of an even greater whole. Alcohol is not a component of my life now and with the grace of God it will never be so again. I continue to go to AA meetings 5 days a week because it is frankly the world's greatest experiment in group therapy.
So, why have I imposed upon your time with this miserable blog? Because my story might just resonate with some of you. My experience can be that little nudge that helps some find a new way of living. Trust me, it is much better than the alternative.
Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I did ten years pretty hard drinking, and enjoyed most of it really. But at a certain age, it begins to seem idiotic really and juvenile.
So I sobered up. But I don't regret the previous drinking; that was my time to be idiotic and juvenile.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
I cannot answer why everybody who gets shit faced drunk does that. If I could answer that I would be able to afford assistants to read the Ship and come up with answers for me while I lazed aboard a yacht somewhere sunny, scenic, and warm.
If you wrote a book which purported to, then yes. But as for the general reasons? There are multiple factors but it is not rocket surgery.
It is the world's most acceptable drug.
It is cheap and mostly legal.
It is ingrained into many cultures.
It lowers inhibition. Both physiologically and psychologically.
It is seen and accepted as a social lubricant.
Those are all reasons we drink. As to why go too far and into drunk? It is difficult for the drinker to gauge and the pub/party dynamic is not one which easily adapts to moderation.
Or so it seems to this very moderate drinker.
Alcoholism is another thing altogether and I am not qualified to comment.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Yesterday I worked a half day at one of the most sadly deprived housing projects in the city-- the kids who come to the school literally trip over the piles of garbage in the common areas and on the street to get to the door. I spent most of my morning trying to keep two very strong little girls from physically attacking each other, over a fight they apparently carry on all day everyday. One of them had a screaming sobbing fit at naptime. I held her in my lap and soothed her and rocked her to sleep, but when I returned her to her cot, it jarred her awake and she began thrashing again, kicking me in the stomach. Two of the teachers in the room were contract subs who didn't know what the hell to do about the situation, the other two were center temp teachers who ran the class by shouting and threatening and yanking children around. IOW, nobody was in charge. It was a scary, joy-free environment.
I am now hung over from the bottle of champagne I drank all by myself last night, after I left a dinner party. As Tortuf said above, I was just trying to stop feeling horrible for a while. Stop feeling anything really.
Boy, the next day you find out what a useless idea that is, don't you?
[ 01. January 2015, 18:20: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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barrea
Shipmate
# 3211
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Posted
I enjoy a drink or two, mostly wine,but I think of the words of Paul. 'And do not get drunk with wine for that is dissipation' Ephesians 5 18 That keeps me from going over the top.
These words were for Christians and I think that we ought to take heed and not have two many. many.
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Therefore having been justified by faith,we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 5:1
Posts: 1050 | From: england | Registered: Aug 2002
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
Parents find it normal nowadays to have a talk with their children about love, sex and procreation. Strangely enough, they often don't talk to them about how to properly drink. I doubt that I would have avoided getting seriously drunk entirely, for indeed getting drunk is a way to prove your adulthood (and manhood in particular) to your peers. Stupid? Sure. Most ways invented by young men to prove to other young men that they are now grown up are very stupid. But that doesn't make them any less of a thing when you are a young man... Anyway, besides the required teenage posturing however, I often got drunk simply because I didn't know how to pace my drinking, how to discern the impact of different drinks, and how to deal with the peer pressure to drink more. These things can however be taught, and indeed much of it can be taught just by talking about it. Though I fully intend to show my son how to nurse a beer practically, when he gets old enough. Preferably at some beach, while watching the sun go down and having a slow chat...
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
When I want to dodge reality, I retreat into books.
I can't tell you how much I wish I was still able to do this. I used to be able to when I was younger I think. But these days I have to have a certain amount of mental/emotional energy to be able to immerse myself in the book (that used to just happen effortlessly from what I remember). So I do still read and enjoy it, but when my depression and/or anxiety is getting the better of me it's not a thing I can use to hide from the world.
Not that I'm suggesting alcohol is a good idea in these situations but I'd be lying if I said I'd never used it as such.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
As Tortuf said above, I was just trying to stop feeling horrible for a while. Stop feeling anything really.
Boy, the next day you find out what a useless idea that is, don't you?
Sure, it's useless come the next morning. But it works for the evening itself, and for some of us that's enough.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Bob Two-Owls
Shipmate
# 9680
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Posted
Yes, I was comfortably drunk last night and it felt great. I spent an hour with my head in a bucket before I could face a full english this morning but I wouldn't swap last night for a less queasy breakfast anytime soon. Everything in moderation, even excess...
Posts: 1262 | Registered: Jul 2005
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
I'm sure everyone here can control their drinking but spare a thought for the overworked nurses in A&E dealing with those who can't. Abuse is often the order of the day not to say the time taken to mop up various body fluids - time that might be better spent with those who are unavoidably ill.
Spare a thought for the wife and children waiting for a drunken father to return home. Will tonight be shouting or punching? Will he just subside into drunken sleep?
Spare a thought for your fellow work mates. They turn up to work, on time, ready to work: because you were blasted last night you phone in sick with some kind of spurious lie or turn up unable to work effectively. Just think how that goes down with your "team" - do you wonder why your first for the chop and last for the promotion?
Spare a thought for the drinker who gets into his/her car to drive home. Whether she's over the limit or not, judgement is impaired. Spare a thought for the policeman and/or the priest who goes to a house in any street to an ordinary family to tell them that their daughter/son/husband/wife has been killed in a manner that was avoidable.
Spare a thought for the example you're giving to the next generation. Do we want drinking to be controlled by price management or by personal management? As long as we accept drinking to excess, tragedy still happens. We're no longer in a labouring culture where people drink to replenish fluid lost in tough manual labour - but many haven't moved on from that. You may drink to escape reality but when you stop drinking the reality has gone away: it's there, bigger than ever.
If only I could expunge all those memories from my mind then I might be able to take one alcoholic drink - until then, I can't.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
If only I could expunge all those memories from my mind then I might be able to take one alcoholic drink - until then, I can't.
The old principle of law applies here: Abusus non tollit usum. ("Abuse does not preclude proper use.")
There has never been a worse response to alcohol than prohibition, as far as the actual effect on the common good is concerned. People will get plastered one way or the other, and making this criminal will just turn your population into criminals.
The real question to be asked about any drug - as far as the common good is concerned - is whether its use can be managed. The reason why alcohol is the socially accepted drug of choice in so many places and cultures is because alcohol very much can be managed. Of course, with a big enough sample size, you will always get the extremes. And so there are serious alcoholics, there are drunk drivers, etc. But really, given the massive scale of alcohol use, such failure modes are to be expected. And as such it does not motivate an attempt to end alcohol use, just as people being maimed and even dying in car crashes does not make us stop using cars.
It is of course always a good idea to look at ways to optimise our managing of drugs. If we can reduce peer pressure towards binge drinking among the young, for example, then we should. But if this discussion starts with the joyless kind of moralising about the evils of alcohols that you have been displaying here, then I'm just not particularly interested. That gets us nowhere.
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
Though I fully intend to show my son how to nurse a beer practically, when he gets old enough. Preferably at some beach, while watching the sun go down and having a slow chat...
Oh yes, there is nothing more enjoyable than a few drinks with your sons chatting about their favourite single malts.
You are educating your son how to drink responsibly right now, he will pick up just as much (if not more) from what you do than from what you say.
Here is a photo of my eldest setting up a whisky tasting competition in 2010 - for his Dad, brother and me.
I won! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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