|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Food Banks
|
Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
|
Posted
The argument about why a government operated financial grant is better than charity actually has nothing to do with whether charities could do it. The argument is about the dignity of the poor. It is held to be demeaning to depend on other people's charitable feeling for survival, it also takes away from the poor what self determination they do have.
If you get £50 to spend then you can determine what sort of food and whether cigarettes are included. If you go to a food bank then you get what you are given (often cheap food e.g. they rarely have fresh fruit and vegetables) and you then have to try and use it to survive. Foodbank food can be wasted simply because people cannot find a way to use it (imagine being given tinned food if you do not have a tin openner).
Jengie
--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Polly
Shipmate
# 1107
|
Posted
To reply to the OP.
We host a Churches Together Food Bank project in our community.
From the stories we hear people are coming to our food bank where (in the context of a family unit) the dad/mum has a full time job but this is low paid. Dad/mums salary pays for the rent, bills but this leaves next to nothing to feed the family.
For others they come for a varied amount of reasons including that the safety net they once had from the state has been removed by the state.
There's also issues surrounding how individuals are sanctioned and have their benefits withdrawn (IMHO this system is heartless) and then come to the food bank.
Posts: 560 | From: St Albans | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
|
Posted
It was actually Martin Luther who argued that the care of the poor was the responsibility of the community. He set up the first Community Chests in Germany in which residents were to share in the promotion of of the community. The needy were expected to repay the community chest when they returned to solvency.
This evolved into the socialized welfare programs of many nations.
Of course, conservatives have been fighting this from the get go, arguing the same old tired saw: "Let the church do it."
The United Way in the United States also claims its origins in Luther's Community Chest program BTW
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tulfes
Shipmate
# 18000
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
The argument about why a government operated financial grant is better than charity actually has nothing to do with whether charities could do it. The argument is about the dignity of the poor. It is held to be demeaning to depend on other people's charitable feeling for survival, it also takes away from the poor what self determination they do have.
If you get £50 to spend then you can determine what sort of food and whether cigarettes are included. If you go to a food bank then you get what you are given (often cheap food e.g. they rarely have fresh fruit and vegetables) and you then have to try and use it to survive. Foodbank food can be wasted simply because people cannot find a way to use it (imagine being given tinned food if you do not have a tin openner).
Jengie
I agree with this. Surely, though, it is possible for a food bank recipient to get hold of an inexpensive can opener. Or food banks could keep a stock of them to give out to recipients of food on request (clear signage could be displayed that they are available). With the problems we have, surely such an issue should be easily overcomable.
Posts: 175 | Registered: Feb 2014
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
|
Posted
If you have no money for food, where do you get the money for an inexpensive can opener? I know foodbanks that keep a stock to hand out but it is just the simplest of requirements. Gas and electricity cut off because no ability to pay bills, shared cooking facilities, stuff in the box does not work to create a meal, culturally wrong stuff so does not know how to make a meal etc, etc,
Jengie
[ 22. March 2015, 16:32: Message edited by: Jengie jon ]
--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Polly
Shipmate
# 1107
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
If you have no money for food, where do you get the money for an inexpensive can opener?
Jengie
I'm not sure if this a problem.
A bigger problem is the fact people don't know how to cook a proper meal and live off Pot Noodles.
Posts: 560 | From: St Albans | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Polly:
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
If you have no money for food, where do you get the money for an inexpensive can opener?
Jengie
I'm not sure if this a problem.
A bigger problem is the fact people don't know how to cook a proper meal and live off Pot Noodles.
Enough of a problem for at least one foodbank to provide them (actually has always been a problem when dealing with those who have a chaotic lifestyle, the very early foodbank I knew of also provided them).
The comment about pot noodle is totally unfair on these people. The case where culturally at a loss with products was because the standard diet was meat and two veg! It was pot noodle that was getting thrown away because they did not know what to do with it.
Jengie
--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
If you have no money for food, where do you get the money for an inexpensive can opener? I know foodbanks that keep a stock to hand out but it is just the simplest of requirements. Gas and electricity cut off because no ability to pay bills, shared cooking facilities, stuff in the box does not work to create a meal, culturally wrong stuff so does not know how to make a meal etc, etc,
Jengie
Our local food bank provides tin openers if needed. They have a list of basic foodstuffs which they ask people to donate, which provides three days food. People do go "off-list" when donating, but those items are extras (i.e. I sometimes donate toothpaste).
Each food parcel aims to provide a box of breakfast cereal, plus a carton of long-life milk, for breakfasts which don't need cooking facilities. One main meal based on pasta (one saucepan and a ring required) - pasta mixed with tinned tuna for example. One main meal based on tinned meat and veg and instant potato - again something which can be cooked in a single saucepan on a single ring. One tinned soup and a tinned pudding meal. Plus tea or coffee, and a packet of biscuits, plus jam or something to make a meal of sandwiches (person has to buy the bread).
Then they'll top that up if they have extras - a toilet roll, or a tube of toothpaste, or a carton of fruit juice. At Christmas, ours got a lot of chocolate advent calendars, and I assume that there'll be chocolate eggs for Easter.
They work on the basis that everything can be cooked either with boiling water from a kettle, or on a single ring.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tulfes
Shipmate
# 18000
|
Posted
Re recent discussion, I suppose the problem of poor or inadequate diet is not just a problem of inadequate or no funds to buy the foodstuffs. It may involve any one or more of lack of cooking utensils, lack of crockery/cutlery, poor (or no) cooking facilities (eg no oven), poor cooking skills etc etc. Food banks are only a very small, if essential, part of the solution.
Posts: 175 | Registered: Feb 2014
| IP: Logged
|
|
Polly
Shipmate
# 1107
|
Posted
quote:
Jengie posted: The comment about pot noodle is totally unfair on these people. The case where culturally at a loss with products was because the standard diet was meat and two veg! It was pot noodle that was getting thrown away because they did not know what to do with it.
It's actually a reality. The number of people who use pot noodles as a meal because they don't know how to take a tin of tomato's, some pasta and add another ingredient is concerning.
Some food banks even offer cooking classes to help people in such situations.
Posts: 560 | From: St Albans | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
|
Posted
It was actually Martin Luther who argued that the care of the poor was the responsibility of the community. He set up the first Community Chests in Germany in which residents were to share in the promotion of of the community. The needy were expected to repay the community chest when they returned to solvency.
This evolved into the socialized welfare programs of many nations.
Of course, conservatives have been fighting this from the get go, arguing the same old tired saw: "Let the church do it."
The United Way in the United States also claims its origins in Luther's Community Chest program BTW
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Polly:
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
If you have no money for food, where do you get the money for an inexpensive can opener?
Jengie
I'm not sure if this a problem.
A bigger problem is the fact people don't know how to cook a proper meal and live off Pot Noodles.
It is a problem, at least in US.
Many of our clients are homeless. They have to cart all their belongings around with them as they are herded by the police all night long from one place to the next (very difficult to sleep, exasperating problems they are dealing with re mental illness and/or poor social skills). Often they are robbed. So, it's not easy for them to hang onto a can opener. And a lot of canned food then needs to be cooked in some way, without a kitchen and pots & pans there's no way to do that.
[ 22. March 2015, 20:12: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]
--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
The argument about why a government operated financial grant is better than charity actually has nothing to do with whether charities could do it. The argument is about the dignity of the poor. It is held to be demeaning to depend on other people's charitable feeling for survival, it also takes away from the poor what self determination they do have.
If you get £50 to spend then you can determine what sort of food and whether cigarettes are included. If you go to a food bank then you get what you are given (often cheap food e.g. they rarely have fresh fruit and vegetables) and you then have to try and use it to survive. Foodbank food can be wasted simply because people cannot find a way to use it (imagine being given tinned food if you do not have a tin openner).
Jengie
AIUI, the issue of dignity is also a problem with US food vouchers, as there is a defined list of what can be purchased with them. As you say, self-determination (including the ability of make what others might think of as bad decisions) is an important part of human dignity.
--------------------
"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
|
Posted
This Lecture on the morality of the food parcel was given by Dr Helen Cameron, Oxford Centre for Ecclesiology and Practical Theology and Head of Public Affairs for The Salvation Army
It makes very interesting reading.
--------------------
"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
The5thMary
Shipmate
# 12953
|
Posted
Food banks are most definitely needed! It's a sad commentary on society but the poor aren't going away! I've used food banks in the past and nearly had to go to one this month but luckily our disability checks arrived today. I never volunteered at a food bank but I remember when I lived in transitional housing in the U-District in Seattle, a roommate volunteered at the food bank and then got to pick out some nice food items for her time. When my wife and I relocate to the Seattle area at the end of April, I plan to volunteer, whether or not I get food for myself is irrelevant. I gotta help my brothers and sisters somehow.
--------------------
God gave me my face but She let me pick my nose.
Posts: 3451 | From: Tacoma, WA USA | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
The5thMary
Shipmate
# 12953
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
It was actually Martin Luther who argued that the care of the poor was the responsibility of the community. He set up the first Community Chests in Germany in which residents were to share in the promotion of of the community. The needy were expected to repay the community chest when they returned to solvency.
This evolved into the socialized welfare programs of many nations.
Of course, conservatives have been fighting this from the get go, arguing the same old tired saw: "Let the church do it."
The United Way in the United States also claims its origins in Luther's Community Chest program BTW
A few years back a group of Atlanta area churches was given a huge donation or grant to feed the homeless. Our pastor at the time was one of the ministers invited to help figure out how the grant would be distributed. He told us it was really crazy: 90% of the pastors were insistent that the poor people who wanted food or other aid be required to show picture i.d., a Social Security card, proof of address or if homeless, proof that they were attending Sunday services at a church--getting a signed letter from a pastor! Our pastor took as much of this bull as he could stand and then he jumped to his feet and said, "Would Jesus require a letter from a pastor? Would Jesus require a valid picture i.d.?". Boy, those pastors were MAD! They hotly countered with, "But if we don't require some sort of valid identification or proof of address, some of these people are going to take advantage of our largess!" And so the arguments continued... ![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
--------------------
God gave me my face but She let me pick my nose.
Posts: 3451 | From: Tacoma, WA USA | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
|
Posted
Our local municipality, which overall is a beacon of compassion compared to our surrounding cities, wants us to certify that all the homeless guests at our shelter (most of the funding comes from a federal grant administered by the city) demonstrate that they are "cityX residents". I've yet to figure out how a homeless person would demonstrate residency.
--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tulfes:
Surely, though, it is possible for a food bank recipient to get hold of an inexpensive can opener. Or food banks could keep a stock of them to give out to recipients of food on request (clear signage could be displayed that they are available). With the problems we have, surely such an issue should be easily overcomable.
Thanks -- this inspired me to go to the local dollar store and get a bunch of can openers to go with next week's food collection. I need to remember to do this every once in a while.
--------------------
"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tulfes:
Re recent discussion, I suppose the problem of poor or inadequate diet is not just a problem of inadequate or no funds to buy the foodstuffs. It may involve any one or more of lack of cooking utensils, lack of crockery/cutlery, poor (or no) cooking facilities (eg no oven), poor cooking skills etc etc. Food banks are only a very small, if essential, part of the solution.
With the homeless folks I have volunteered with, an even tougher problem for adequate nutrition is the lack of teeth.
--------------------
Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Tulfes:
Surely, though, it is possible for a food bank recipient to get hold of an inexpensive can opener. Or food banks could keep a stock of them to give out to recipients of food on request (clear signage could be displayed that they are available). With the problems we have, surely such an issue should be easily overcomable.
Thanks -- this inspired me to go to the local dollar store and get a bunch of can openers to go with next week's food collection. I need to remember to do this every once in a while.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
This Lecture on the morality of the food parcel was given by Dr Helen Cameron, Oxford Centre for Ecclesiology and Practical Theology and Head of Public Affairs for The Salvation Army
It makes very interesting reading.
Mudfrog - I found that really interesting, especially the idea of giving gift cards so that people could choose their own food.
Dr Cameron mentions the requirement in NZ for people to attend budgeting advice after they have received X number of food parcels. I know some people who have come up against that requirement and find it more restricting than being given food items rather than money. I would suggest it needs to be handled more sensitively than it sometimes is as it can be experienced by the recipients as a judgement on the the choices they are making, rather than an attempt to work with them. Just because people are receiving assistance from a church, rather than a government agency doesn't automatically mean they are being treated with dignity.
Huia
--------------------
Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Intrepid Mrs S
Shipmate
# 17002
|
Posted
Mr S spends one day a week at a food bank. People who need food are referred from outside agencies and are given food for 5 days, in theory a maximum of 3 times per year (but in practice it may be more than that). This food, by the way, does include fresh fruit, vegetables and bread - although many will reject any fresh produce on the grounds that they don't know how to cook it.
They would NEVER ever give anyone food they couldn't or wouldn't eat, and if the client has no way to cook they are given food that can be eaten from the can. And yes, they hand out can openers too (and toothbrushes and other toiletries too.)
Sometimes people try and con them (the food bank, that is), but their rationale is that Jesus told them to feed the hungry. Not the deserving hungry, just the hungry.
HOWEVER it is fair to say that no-one will give you a new phone, or fags, or booze - but they will give you food.
It is also fair to say that no matter how good the benefits system is - and in the UK it is relatively excellent - there will always be people who need food banks.
Finally, they are very proud that their clients are all treated as people not as numbers, and the food bank staff have discretion that government departments do not.
They are not, by the way, a Trussell Trust food bank - they pre-date them.
Mrs. S, who has spent her life saying 'it's not that simple'
--------------------
Don't get your knickers in a twist over your advancing age. It achieves nothing and makes you walk funny.
Prayer should be our first recourse, not our last resort
'Lord, please give us patience. NOW!'
Posts: 1464 | From: Neither here nor there | Registered: Mar 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view
