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Source: (consider it) Thread: Shipborne Scientists
Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829

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Anyone else?

AG

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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869

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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829

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I came across my Belbin Roles report the other day, which I'd almost forgotten about. For those not in the know it's, I guess, a psychological test of sorts, but with the refinement that you get four people you have worked with to fill in questions from their side of the table, and the results are calculated from that.

I was quite startled by the results, as actually I felt they were more like me than I'd thought, and more than one person has said the same.

I'll just quote a couple of passages that I feel explain a lot:

"project work or something of a developmental character, would best meet your needs. You may be able to tolerate routine work but only temporarily"

"What you have to avoid is being drawn into administrative situations that have no evident end point. Unless there are practical outcomes or there is at least a prospect of them, you will soon become frustrated."

Anyone else recognise those feelings?

AG

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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869

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mark_in_manchester

not waving, but...
# 15978

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Sandemaniac - I've written before telling tales of 'goodbye REF, hello Swarfega' but if the transition from academic to workshop technician sounds unsuitable (not least from a house-buying perspective) what about a less-extreme leap down the university food chain?

There is more than one institution in your town. Given you probably have a publication or two, in some circles that might give you the kind of status which only a Nobel prize or two will secure you in your current surroundings. Do you have an ego-stake in working with the elite, or is finding a smaller pond a possibility?

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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)

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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829

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I've only stayed with The Big One because when I've needed a job that's where there's been one - largely because it's the biggest employer locally. Science wise, I seem to recall someone stating that if it was a company it would be something like the third biggest science company in the UK.

There is indeed a second university in the city, but the number of jobs it advertises is a fraction of those of its big brother (21 to 194 as of today) and my view of it was rendered somewhat jaundiced by an interview back in 2011 or 2012 when we mutually established part way through that it really wasn't the droids - sorry, job - I was looking for and, on further exploration afterwards at least two of the panel told me that it was a really bad place to work and I was better off out of it. I have to also say that this pretty much reflected my spouse and mother-in-law's experience of working there as well.

A contract research organisation might be a good target, really need to get burrowing into company profiles and stuff, and with the days lengthening and the gardening season upon us, I should have enough positive stuff going on to keep me from getting too depressed by the whole process.

Anyone here worked for a CRO? Or know anyone who has? It would be really good to be able to pick someone's brains...

AG

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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869

Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged
Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829

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...writing yesterday evening after a relaxing weekend that I need another one to get over, so I missed a salient point.

I would love to work somewhere small where I got the chance to muck in with whatever needed doing. Something mutable where you get a whole load of different jobs done lights my fire.

AG

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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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You'll get small research groups like that even within the large universities. Usually they're struggling to get the research grants in, hence can't employ an extra RA to do something so need to use people they already have.

That's the sort of group I'm in in Scotland. Three research areas, three RAs one technician and one academic. With two of those research fields involving a lot of service work, someone needs to be able to take it up and keep the work going when someone takes a holiday or calls in sick. Throw in the things like keeping the ancient computers which we rely on to run the instruments (because it's a major task to update computers when the quality of the work relies on knowing they perform so even a small change requires extensive checks that the results aren't affected), and fielding the odd strange little bit of work that we have to accept because the cash is needed and it can be fun. Quite stressful, because you know it won't take much for the money to run out and one of the RAs could no longer be afforded at all.

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

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TurquoiseTastic

Fish of a different color
# 8978

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This might not appeal at all, but have you considered teaching at a secondary school or sixth-form college?
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313

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Have you approached an agency specialising in science fields?
When my other half finished his PhD (spectroscopy) he signed up with an agency in Cambridge who found him interviews which were very wide ranging, from nuclear physicist at Sellafield (I took that call at home, the caller had obviously heard people burst out laughing down the phone before) to telecommunications. What he eventually got was a job in a small technology consultancy, where the work was very varied and interesting, from designing and patenting smart meters (his speciality) to thinking up new ways for a toaster to work. The people in the firm had a wide variety of backgrounds, including biochemistry, as the inventions could be in any field and might include medical devices; not everyone had a PhD either. Oxford would presumably have similar companies. Obviously I know nothing about your speciality but it is worth looking around the technology companies.
I know how you feel about admin and management, it's the reason my nursing career went into practice development and then education.

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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
My shop

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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829

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Sorry, TT, but teaching is an absolute no.

AG

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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869

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daisydaisy
Shipmate
# 12167

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Are you on L*In, and in Groups that interest you? You might find people in the Groups to connect with who could know of opportunities that have not yet made it public. Also, if your summary says something like "Actively looking for a role as .... in Dark Blue-ville" you might get some interest.
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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There's always a 'career' as a B-list SF writer... [Razz]

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Forward the New Republic

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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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But only do that if you have another source of income. (I have a writer friend who was teaching writing in New York City. She had an actress pupil in the class who planned to support herself with writing until she made it big on Broadway. We retell this story constantly, to shouts of laughter.)

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829

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That's a good point, daisydaisy, I checked and it's currently buried several lines down, I will poke it further up.

The groups are a bit more of a problem - I'm far more interested in doing stuff with my hands than any particular subject, if I were reading it would be popular astronomy or the like, which I am utterly unqualified in. Not sure that there is a "getting hands dirty getting stuck in" group. Dunno how to get round that.

Doc Tor, at least it's novel (pun spotted late, but left as it's apt)! I suspect it would be several letters further down the alphabet from B as I very, very rarely read SF - history is far more my thing.

AG

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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869

Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged
Curiosity killed ...

Ship's Mug
# 11770

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I note you found the same careers group on LinkedIn I did earlier today.

Teaching was something I really didn't want to do for years. The thought of a class full of clones of my youngest sister still makes my blood run cold. But I found it was very different when I did get involved. Even though I still get to work with the occasional youngest sister clone.

Volunteer work at the local museums might get you an in into archaeology or local history. Or you could find out what is on offer locally for astronomy and volunteer there. To be honest wanting to change direction entirely often does mean put yourself in the right place to hear what's about.

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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat

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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829

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The one that's usually fairly friendly, or the one where I'm pissing into the wind trying to get an answer?

The answer is still no. I know people in real life* who are teachers and who also know me. It would only be a matter of time before I did a Brenda Ann Spencer. Besides, how do I pay for the training? We've been here before, remember, and more than once already?

Sorry, CK, but that's just getting into circular argument territory. I realised the best part of a decade ago that if I was to do anything history-related I would need a full-time job to pay for it. And changing to something else I have zero qualifications in... come on, be sensible! We're househunting, what the hell do we pay for it with if I do that?

AG


* a strange place, off-ship.

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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869

Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged
Curiosity killed ...

Ship's Mug
# 11770

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The reason teaching keeps coming up as it's one of the careers where you can be paid as you retrain - up to £25,000 tax free. And there aren't many of those unless you're prepared to do a lot of retraining through the OU and keep the day job.

And I know archaeology doesn't pay the rent, it's why I am only involved for fun, not trying to do more with it, but I was giving an example of how you transfer. Ways to transfer roles are:

  • Volunteer in an area of interest and build up experience and contacts;
  • Start building up a free-lance portfolio (it's how a lot of people move into consultancy or photography) - teaching evening classes, taking photos at events, etc;
  • Retrain in your free time through the OU or evening classes
  • a mixture of all three
  • work out what you can use from your experience that you can use to target jobs in an area you want to work in

I've been fairly deliberately doing a lot of admin as a way to step sideways. I really didn't want to get into quality assurance as that's not an area I ever want to work in.

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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat

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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829

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I'm not being a teacher and that's that. I'd rather go back to gutting chickens.

Please, please, if you are going to give examples, make sure that they are clearly labelled as such. Between illness and stress my brain has turned into a pool of grey glop between my ears, trying to make sense of a whirlpool of stuff going past like a sock in a spin dryer, and it can't handle anything that isn't really obvious at the moment.

Believe you me, if I was doing anything that I thought could be turned into a career, I'd have been in there like a shot...

I have one baby idea left, that's all, which I am terrified to expose to the real world in case it kills it like all my other babies.

AG

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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869

Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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You need a skill that you can sell, or better several skills. You either make something, or provide a service. You also have to be bold and prepared to take risks. Not sure what else can be said, except, is there anyone who can mentor you?

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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829

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Years of trying to sell them at interview, and feeling as though I'm trying to flog my soul to the lowest bidder have left me pretty jaded about my skills, to be honest. And I have things to hang on to, and other obstacles, that have made me pretty risk-averse.

My department has a mentoring service, which I am using, but I'm sure you can see the problem inherent in an academic department offering a mentor to someone who wants to leave academia.

AG

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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869

Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged
IngoB

Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700

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Sandemaniac, I've read all this and I now know what you cannot do, will not do, cannot be trained to do, have no talent for, have forgotten long ago, are bored to do, or will not be paid to do by anyone else.

I'm sort of waiting for the positive part here. And I do not mean the bit where you are about to commit to a massive mortgage on a fixed term contract and really need the money.

I'm not exactly working in your research field, but I'm the sort of person you may need to excite about yourself to get your next job (i.e., a Prof).

I know this isn't your job application, but I wonder if you realise just how many red flags reading all this has raised? If this impression of negativity and high maintenance seeps into your job application, you will be on the "chuck out" pile in no time. I get anything from 10-40 applications on jobs I offer. I consider closely about 1-2% of them.

So how about you tell us what's great about you? What you can and will do? What your skill sets are and how you have been polishing them? Etc. Basically, get some practice in on how to be positive about yourself. Try advertising the potential employee that is you. Seems to me that a bit of practice concerning that couldn't hurt, and maybe that will also inspire some more constructive suggestions from people here.

And if you cannot face another contract at your current place of work, then please find a positive reason why. Anything you can say about how your current work sucks can be rephrased as something better that you really want at this stage of your career. Remember, you are never running away from the bad and ugly, you are always running towards the good and beautiful.

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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear

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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829

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All too bloody true, IngoB. Why do you think I do it somewhere where I am anonymous, and have not responded to the people at one event who spent the entire day telling me "You should have a blog! That's what everyone these days does!"?

That is, however, a damn good challenge. Watch this space, project for this evening...

AG

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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869

Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged
Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829

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*bends down, picks up gauntlet*

I have eighteen years of laboratory experience, largely gained in one of the world’s top universities. I have worked in bacteriology, in neuroscience, in immunology and cell signalling and currently in molecular biology applied to cardiovascular research, giving me a wide perspective. I want to apply that experience and my skills to solving problems with an impact in the real world, to produce, to create, something that will change lives, that people will enjoy, that people will use. I want to make a difference.

Give me the objective and I will drive towards it. I take on responsibility for what needs doing, and get it done. I do the dirty work as well as the clean. Having those goals and achieving them is what motivates me. I make things work and if I can’t, I will find out who can. I do the big things that the laboratory needs as well as the little things that make it work on a day-to-day basis. I sort out the little messes and the big muddles that get in the way of work for myself and for others.

I train and mentor new staff and students, giving a helping hand, an ear, a shoulder when needed. I train them to do things and make them to understand what they are doing, not just do it mechanically. I want to see them become established as fully-fledged researchers, and I will do everything I can to help them to that goal.

I am a good communicator – I once established a working arrangement with, and began to train, someone who spoke no English. I listen and, if I can help I will, if I cannot, I will suggest someone who can.

I am organised – I keep diaries and task lists. I’ve set up practical classes for undergraduate medical students where 80 identical bench spaces had to be set, taken down, reset, and taken down again over the course of a day, and also helped the students attain their objectives for the class.

How's that for starters?

AG

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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869

Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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It's good, but can I clarify - you describe doing the work others have designed for you, is that what you wish to continue with, (in a different setting) or are you looking to move into being the person who plans the work , is the lead researcher etc ? Or are you looking to move from research to applied ?

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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daisydaisy
Shipmate
# 12167

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Great move, Sandemaniac. Have you got some examples you can add of challenges, actions you took and results?
It's also worth thinking about a positive reason for why you want a change.

Posts: 3184 | From: southern uk | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged
Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829

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Doublethink, yes, I'm a do-er, not a planner, and I'm never going to be considered for a lead researcher role (besides, I get my satisfaction from hands-on stuff). And I do really want to do something with an application, have done for years, in fact.

daisydaisy, would you like to try to pose a question that I could answer - it would be easier than trying to come up with something off the cuff.

Positive reasons will have to wait until another day...

AG

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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869

Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged
daisydaisy
Shipmate
# 12167

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Ummmmm how about, tell me about a challenge that you faced, how you addressed it and what the outcome was.
Posts: 3184 | From: southern uk | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
Doublethink, yes, I'm a do-er, not a planner, and I'm never going to be considered for a lead researcher role

Which is a problem within the UK academic system, where the only real path to promotion is to take up lead researcher roles. Job descriptions under grade 7 would include support for development of research proposals, and an expectation that the lead researcher role would would be assumed for small projects or parts of larger projects. Grade 8 would almost require someone to be a lead researcher in at least one mid sized project (ie: 1-2 years with 1 RA and some technician support). If you're on grade 7 and not taking some research initiative then this will be a black mark on your performance review - which may be overlooked if there are lots of papers, and you're doing a lot to help other research projects which bring in a lot of money. But, if money is very tight and the papers are few in number then the pressure will be on to improve (ie: win research income and write papers) or move on.

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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quote:
Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
Doublethink, yes, I'm a do-er, not a planner, and I'm never going to be considered for a lead researcher role (besides, I get my satisfaction from hands-on stuff). And I do really want to do something with an application, have done for years, in fact.

Is this the kind of job you currently do ?

[ 01. April 2015, 06:55: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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And is this the kind of job you want ?

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829

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Not having a degree beyond MSc I am an RA (Alan'll know what I mean), which has a nasty tendency to be a time-limited role, and not just in terms of contract. This is the closest I can find to my current role, at least in terms of how it was advertised (nothing currently being advertised that I can see that gives a fair equivalent of the actual duties of the current role, but I'd suggest band 4). Doublethink, either of those roles would represent a step up from what I'm doing now, the NHS one actually looks far more interesting, and I have got a lead this morning on training positions in Oxford...

daisy daisy:

I was manning the department's goods inwards when a car broke down in the only entrance from the road. I investigated and discovered that the car was immobile, leaving no access for deliveries. I liaised with the workshop to open a temporary gate behind the department, and with the University Parks to allow access via their entrance, and made and put up a sign directing deliveries into the temporary entrance. As a result we were able to accept deliveries and function normally until the AA arrived and fixed the car.

Any good? I should be able to think of more scientifically relevant ones, but that one sticks out because of the unusual circumstances. The only odder ones were catching the snake...

AG

[ 01. April 2015, 09:54: Message edited by: Sandemaniac ]

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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869

Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged
daisydaisy
Shipmate
# 12167

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The snake one intrigues me. Your example is only good if it would impress a prospective employer, so it depends on what you hope to go for.
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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Would your mentor be willing to act as the the IBMS training officer, so you could complete the portfolio for HCPC registration ? Would give you a goal for your remaining time on contract and expand your employment options.

[ 01. April 2015, 21:25: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Sandemaniac
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# 12829

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Assuming that IBMS is Institute of BioMedical Scientists (or similar), I don't think he's any more eligible to do so than I am, especially given the most recent email exchange we've had. However, I'll look it up and see.

As for the snake... well, it's amazing what crawls under doors when you are next to a park - it was only a tiddler, poor thing, a wee baby grass snake about a foot long, so I took it down by the river and let it go there where it could hunt froglets in peace.

AG

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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869

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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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Did some digging, It seems to be a graduate profession, so in theory the MSc would put you one up on others. However, if your first degree was not IBMS registered you'd need to do a top up module.

Then you first need to get a trainee job in an IBMS approved lab (there must be some local to you, looks like they in a lot of hospital trusts.)

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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I lie, it appears there are multiple routes in.

[ 01. April 2015, 22:49: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
Not having a degree beyond MSc I am an RA (Alan'll know what I mean), which has a nasty tendency to be a time-limited role, and not just in terms of contract.

It's unusual for someone to stay on as an RA for an extended period of time. And, without the PhD and a clear desire to climb the academic ladder to independent research (you don't actually need the desire, just the ability to bluff it) you'll very rapidly hit the top of the pay scale (probably grade 6 without the PhD), and be in the unpleasant situation of lots of younger people with very little experience earning significantly more. And, when you have mortgage to pay, family to support etc then the number on the pay slip does start to have some importance.

From what you've said, it would appear that you would be better off with a technicians job description rather than research and teaching. You would find it easier to rise up the salary grade, and wouldn't need the extra degree or start formulating original research ideas. A research technician, doing research level work in support of the academics in the group, the general go-to guy to get something done. Unfortunately, most universities don't employ enough technical staff, I don't have the experience to know whether industry or government labs are any better in that regard.

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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FWIW if the internet is right, university grade six salary substantially overlaps with NHS band 6.

(Trainee biomedical scientist would be top band 5 or low band 6 salary I think.)

[ 01. April 2015, 23:12: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Ferijen
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# 4719

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University salaries are no longer so easily banded, but I think in this case its right (at my university, for example, grade 6 is quite a bit higher... and Level 7 is professor level) when universities developed their own pay scales some were more 'individual' than others!).

Good luck in finding something. I'm on the admin side of universities, but in a similar situation in terms of not knowing how that would translate in to the real world. However, at the moment, the four days a week I work is enough to keep my attached to my current job, even if its not the most intellectually stimulating. The fact is I'm (fortunately) paid quite well for what I do, and jobs for a similar sort of money elsewhere seem very specialised in their requirements...

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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We went through a "modernisation" of pay scales and the liek about 10 years ago (it was the last time I actually got shifted up - from the top of the old RA1A to the top of grade 7), and we were told it was in part to create a consistent pay structure across different jab families (admin, research, teaching, clinical, technical etc) and universities. So, does that mean a mere decade later that that uniformity across universities is gone? That my top of grade 7 (most definitely not Professor - although with my other hat on, I am a professor, or sensei, here in Japan) is not the same as a top of grade 7 in any other UK university?

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

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Ferijen
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# 4719

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The modernisation of pay grades was undertaken by universities separately (there was a reason the unions weren't very thrilled by it...). The spinal points remain the same, but the divisions that make them up aren't. At your university, the grade 7 is points 32-39, at another Russell Group institution its 30-36, at yet another Russell Group institution they use an alphabetical scale, and, as I said, Grade 7s for us are above the scale.

(And I'd guess that this costs my university more - with a greater number of increments in each stage, it means people drift up and get stuck at relatively high levels of pay, but the steps between grades are higher).

Anyway, to return to the subject...

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Sandemaniac
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# 12829

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
It's unusual for someone to stay on as an RA for an extended period of time. And, without the PhD and a clear desire to climb the academic ladder to independent research (you don't actually need the desire, just the ability to bluff it) you'll very rapidly hit the top of the pay scale (probably grade 6 without the PhD), and be in the unpleasant situation of lots of younger people with very little experience earning significantly more. And, when you have mortgage to pay, family to support etc then the number on the pay slip does start to have some importance.

From what you've said, it would appear that you would be better off with a technicians job description rather than research and teaching. You would find it easier to rise up the salary grade, and wouldn't need the extra degree or start formulating original research ideas. A research technician, doing research level work in support of the academics in the group, the general go-to guy to get something done. Unfortunately, most universities don't employ enough technical staff, I don't have the experience to know whether industry or government labs are any better in that regard.

That's pretty much where this thread started, Alan. I have been an RA for a long time, hit the glass ceiling, been pushed down, and am heading up towards it again.

I have years worth of practical experience, have realised that it's doing practical things that give me job satisfaction, and I want to find somewhere where I can continue to use and expand my skills. If I have to take a pay cut to retrain - eg as a Biomedical scientist, currently looking the likeliest option - then I'll handle it somehow, but I'm not taking a pay cut to do the same old same old until that's the only option left.

dd - thank you for the PM, I'll give it my full attention over the weekend, as it looks to deserve it.

AG

[ 02. April 2015, 14:16: Message edited by: Sandemaniac ]

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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869

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the famous rachel
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# 1258

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Hi Sandemaniac,

This may be wishful thinking, but have you looked into any routes to convert the research work you have done into a PhD, which might improve your position? I know of at least one person here (at a light blue Uni) who has done that in recent years, having started off as a very hands-on research assistant, and it has worked out very well for him. (Essentially he converted the papers he had worked on into a thesis). It may not be possible within the constraints of your job or department, I know, and you may already have checked on this, but I thought I would throw it into the mix, just in case.

Best wishes,

Rachel.

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A shrivelled appendix to the body of Christ.

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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Or, following on from that, if the work you've already done can't be counted towards a PhD (eg: because it was too clearly in support of the research of other people to be counted as your own individual original research) could you see about negotiating to renew your contract to include elements that would qualify? That sort of path has been used several times where I am to allow technicians to earn an MSc by research, in theory it should be possible to do a PhD that way too. And, it doesn't need to take 3 years (after all, for most students the first year is spent learning how to use the equipment - and you'll be years ahead of them on that).

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

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Sandemaniac
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# 12829

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That assumes, though, that I want to continue to pursue an academic career path, and would also mean a contract in a different lab (it's taken two and a half years to get another PhD student in this one, and we're taking bets on how long they last), plus it just puts off the current question for a bit longer. Even if it took less than three years, I'd still be past 45.

Now if there was a way to make it do something in the real world in that time, you'd really have my ear.

AG

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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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A doctorate might open some doors in the contract research/consultancy field. But, yes it's mainly useful in academia.

And, 45 isn't a problem. Someone we've been working with for the last couple of years started his PhD here this week. At the age of 61.

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

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Piglet
Islander
# 11803

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My boss got her PhD when she was 49.

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

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Hazey*Jane

Ship's Biscuit Crumbs
# 8754

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quote:
Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
*bends down, picks up gauntlet*

I have eighteen years of laboratory experience, largely gained in one of the world’s top universities. I have worked in bacteriology, in neuroscience, in immunology and cell signalling and currently in molecular biology applied to cardiovascular research, giving me a wide perspective. I want to apply that experience and my skills to solving problems with an impact in the real world, to produce, to create, something that will change lives, that people will enjoy, that people will use. I want to make a difference.

Give me the objective and I will drive towards it. I take on responsibility for what needs doing, and get it done. I do the dirty work as well as the clean. Having those goals and achieving them is what motivates me. I make things work and if I can’t, I will find out who can. I do the big things that the laboratory needs as well as the little things that make it work on a day-to-day basis. I sort out the little messes and the big muddles that get in the way of work for myself and for others....

Does your next role have to be bench-based? Because if you are willing to move to a more desk-based environment, I know of roles within the NHS that would probably be a good fit for your work ethic, motivations, and breadth of experience. A little additional experience/training might be required, but it would be of the sort that you could possibly sneak into your day job, or at least amass without too much burden in your free time between now and the end of your current role.
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Sandemaniac
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# 12829

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I'd be interested to hear more, Hazey*Jane. A desk job is not on my list at the moment, but if something that really appealed came along... and if I can gain anything useful while I'm still working as well... feel free to PM me if you don't want to reply in public.

AG

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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869

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Hazey*Jane

Ship's Biscuit Crumbs
# 8754

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Done!
Posts: 4266 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829

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Just avoiding the doom of broom...

Local area graduate careers fair today... Interested to see Mission Burrito represented, I guess "¿Le gustaría papas fritas con?" makes a change from "Would you like fries with that?".

AG

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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869

Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged



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