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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Election result a product of prayer?
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Chief of sinners
Shipmate
# 8794
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Posted
I just received an email from the National Day of prayer organiser, it contains this quote:
"Right across the landscape; politicians, government, society, media, communities, the church and people on the streets are all reeling from the aftermath of the Elections. One thing is sure, Christians prayed and God answered!
It appears that God has chosen to allow and influence the way the people across the UK voted."
They appear to be claiming that this government is in as a result of prayer. Of course they could claim this whoever had won.
The full text of the email then tries to draw back from this
read full text here
Maybe I am hyper sensitive because I prayed for a very different result. Are their prayers better than mine?
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If Jesus was half the revolutionary you claim, how come he is now represented by one of the most conservative, status-quo institutions on the planet?
Posts: 155 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
That's a pretty horrid line.
I was there and praying with people from my church and my office. While the outcome will have pleased some, it is certainly not what I prayed for and after church yesterday, it seemed that most who were on Parliament Square were decidedly upset by the outcome.
The problem, as ever, with claiming that prayer influenced something (based on what I think is the fallacious idea that prayer is a verbal vending machine) is that one does not have a benchmark against which to measure it.
It's unfalsifiable and unverifiable.
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
Posts: 3791 | From: On the corporate ladder | Registered: Jan 2012
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Alyosha
Shipmate
# 18395
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Posted
That really is outrageous.
You can't paint God as a Tory. How can people rejoice at the decision anyway?
God has allowed it, but it doesn't mean he is with the Conservatives or actively behind the whole party.
I always find that politicians use this line anyway - they claim (often in subtext) that God is with them in everything they do. That's why it is so difficult to challenge a Government - because they infer that you are challenging God. And then they will use some prominent Christians to back them up by blessing them. May as well just go bless trident.
I just think it's outrageous.
God also allows the devil to have a degree of power.
Posts: 162 | From: UK | Registered: Apr 2015
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
If a vast swing to UKIP is in accordance with God's wishes then He does move in mysterious ways.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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shadeson
Shipmate
# 17132
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Posted
Chief of sinners quote:
Maybe I am hyper sensitive
No there is no need to worry. It is well understood in churches that God answers prayer according to how many people pray for something.
Obviously, there are many more Conservative prayers than Labour and the Liberals are positive sinners.
Posts: 136 | From: uk | Registered: May 2012
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
If the election result was the result of prayers, they weren't to the one I engage with. And the gnostics and the Cathars were right about who rules this world.
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Here in the US we have not one, nor two or three, but four presidential candidates as of this writing who have been assured by God that they are supposed to be President of the United States. (Stay tuned, I am sure we will get a few more in there.)
Logically they either
1). worship entirely different Gods
2). aren't listening to God accurately, or
3). (which I personally favor) God is jerking their chain. This is by no means, for instance, the first time that God has assured Mike Huckabee that he is to be president. One envisions the Deity like Lucy, holding the football for Charlie Brown. How many times will Huckabee fall for this? We shall see.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
In a previous church, we had members of three different political parties who attended and were involved in the church.
It did help to make it clear to us that God was not behind any particular party. Each of us were, we believed, guided in our particular direction by our faith, but it was different directions.
To say that the result is Gods choice is either a) dangerously naive b) fatalistic or c) radically dangerous.
My prayers were not answered. The same applies for all sorts of people on my twitter timeline. I struggle to believe that we are all hopeless sinners who God doesn't bother listening to any more.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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agingjb
Shipmate
# 16555
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Posted
Who knows?
But if I were in a position of power in a church (I'm not even in one - persona non grata as a remarried divorcee) I'd tear up the lectionary and insist on Matthew 25 31:46 at every service.
Oh, I forgot, the Gospel according to St Matthew is now deuterocanonical.
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Refraction Villanelles
Posts: 464 | From: Southern England | Registered: Jul 2011
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Komensky
Shipmate
# 8675
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Posted
Luckily there is no evidence whatsoever that prayer has any external effects. It feels nice to pray, but it is not capable of changing anything outside of the one doing the praying.
K.
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"The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity." - George Bernard Shaw
Posts: 1784 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2004
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
There are some interesting theological implications involved here. From the official statement:
quote:
It appears that God has chosen to allow and influence the way the people across the UK voted.
Doesn't this run counter to the doctrine of "free will" that most Christian sects adhere to? The idea of God changing the result of an election usually starts to founder as soon as you start wondering about the details. Does He stuff the ballot box, miraculously causing 'correct' ballots to appear (and simultaneously altering the voter rolls, so no one catches on). Or does He, as the link from the OP suggests, exert some form of mind control to alter people's voting patterns.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Alyosha
Shipmate
# 18395
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Komensky:
Luckily there is no evidence whatsoever that prayer has any external effects. It feels nice to pray, but it is not capable of changing anything outside of the one doing the praying.
K.
But not entirely luckily. Also, it doesn't feel that nice to pray. That's what I've gathered from the few occasions I've dragged my sorry arse before God.
[ 11. May 2015, 20:09: Message edited by: Alyosha ]
Posts: 162 | From: UK | Registered: Apr 2015
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Chief of sinners
Shipmate
# 8794
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Posted
Quite apart from the "Thanks to our prayers, we have a Tory government" implication.
I agree with others here that this says a lot about the attitude to prayer does prayer change things? As the slogan of a bygone age claimed. Or does prayer change us?
If I were an athiest this would be fodder for me, "Look those Christian with their incantations are claiming that they have put David Cameron into Downing Street. Funny they didn't say so before the vote was announced and what happened to all the prayers of the Christian Socialists?" The NDOP statement opens the church to ridicule
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If Jesus was half the revolutionary you claim, how come he is now represented by one of the most conservative, status-quo institutions on the planet?
Posts: 155 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
So presumably the Almighty must be a floating voter as He has listened to the prayers of Labour supporters in the past
For some reason he apparently hasn't listened to Liberal prayers since 1922 ... or perhaps he partially answered them in 2010.
There is a theological term for the sentiments expressed in the link in the OP - bollocks.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
The other problem, other than reflecting a Tory bias, is that it seems like they are saying "This result must be Gods will, because he rules everything. Many Christians were praying for Gods will to be done. Therefore this government is an answer to prayer".
Which is, of course, circular. It is fatalism, because everything is an answer to prayer, if your prayer is that something should happen, irrespective of what it is. It is a bit like Derren Brown predicting the lottery results. He didn't actually predict anything, he merely said, after the event, what he knew the numbers to be. The smoke and mirrors make it seem like a prediction, but it was no such thing.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
So presumably the Almighty must be a floating voter as He has listened to the prayers of Labour supporters in the past
Not necessarily. Another explanation is that He doesn't use His election-fixing powers in every election.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
So presumably the Almighty must be a floating voter as He has listened to the prayers of Labour supporters in the past
For some reason he apparently hasn't listened to Liberal prayers since 1922 ... or perhaps he partially answered them in 2010.
There is a theological term for the sentiments expressed in the link in the OP - bollocks.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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TurquoiseTastic
Fish of a different color
# 8978
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
One envisions the Deity like Lucy, holding the football for Charlie Brown. How many times will Huckabee fall for this? We shall see.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif) Thank you for this image which I shall revisit many times...
Posts: 1092 | From: Hants., UK | Registered: Jan 2005
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
Seems to me perfectly obvious that God is rewarding Mr Cameron for bringing in gay marriage.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Quotesfile
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Dal Segno
al Fine
# 14673
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
There are some interesting theological implications involved here. From the official statement:
quote:
It appears that God has chosen to allow and influence the way the people across the UK voted.
Doesn't this run counter to the doctrine of "free will"...?
God can influence a person to the extent that they allow God to influence them. We are not robots to be pushed around at the whim of a capricious God.
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Yet ever and anon a trumpet sounds
Posts: 1200 | From: Pacific's triple star | Registered: Mar 2009
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
I'm not impressed with people declaring God gave them the result they wanted after the result has happened.
In 2010, one of Australia's higher-profile Pentecostal preachers went ahead and prophesied the election result. He got it wrong, as it was basically an exercise in his own wish fulfilment rather than having any demonstrable connection to God's will.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
I find one thing in that statement I can agree with.
quote:
My friend and General Director of Evangelical Alliance, Steve Clifford who joined us in Parliament Square last Wednesday has issued a call for Christians to pray for the Prime Minister, his Government as well as making sure the church holds him and his cabinet accountable for their policies in the coming days, weeks and months.
We can pray for the PM to develop some form of basic human compasion and decide not to enact all the vile stuff in his party manifesto.
And, the Church can certainly stand up and be heard. What if every church in the country makes a weekly record of everyone in their "patch" (however each church wants to define the extent over which it draws members, has some level of pastoral responsibility etc) who has struggled to get benefits they need, who has needed to visit the food bank, who has been left waiting for a doctors appointment or hospital treatment, the refugees who are being sent to countries where they will be tortured or simply left to starve, etc. Every week send that list of people who have been let down by a government that cares more for their chums with lots of money to their local MP and the Cabinet Office, every week get it published in the local paper, put it on their website and get people to like and share it on Facebook.
Sounds like a plan to me.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Demas
Ship's Deserter
# 24
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Posted
Ignoring the specific question of whether God is a Tory, presumably it is legitimate in some circumstances to pray for a particular election outcome? And then thanking God if that prayed for outcome comes about?
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They did not appear very religious; that is, they were not melancholy; and I therefore suspected they had not much piety - Life of Rev John Murray
Posts: 1894 | From: Thessalonica | Registered: May 2004
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
I was at a church in the UK when this meeting was announced - very much as a non-partisan event. I can certainly see how the e-mail can be read as highly partisan, and its text strikes me as very unwise.
Trying to put the best possible stance on it, one might argue he's arguing that the result was unexpected - which it certainly was by the pollsters; perhaps also that it delivers a clear mandate to govern, which whether you like it or not a seven-way coalition would not have done.
I don't think the question of whether election results can be influenced by prayer can be distinguished from the wider question of whether anything can be. There is certainly plenty in the Bible about praying for authorities and about the notion that God works in and through history, though it's a big jump from there to praying for a particular election outcome.
Some years ago now I happened to bump into our local mayor as he registered for the city's mayoral elections - quite a big thing in France. I sort of knew him at the time and he knew I was a pastor (full-time during that period). As we exchanged greetings, a percentage to two decimal places came into my mind: I felt sure it was his final score (which would give him a first-round win), but nowhere near sure enough to tell him. As I recall, it turned out to be wholly accurate.
Of course I did nothing so rationalistic as to write the number down before the poll and maybe I misremembered it or imagined the whole thing, but what I took away from the experience was confirmation that somewhere, Proverbs 21:1 was true: quote:
The king's heart is like a stream of water directed by the LORD; he guides it wherever he pleases
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
I pray for the Government, whichever Government, but I've always been wary of praying for a specific outcome of an election. Perhaps because I doubt my motives would be pure; far too much self-interest.
And it seems a bit wrong, praying for something when I know others will be praying exactly the opposite.
And of course, I wouldn't God to hear it and think, 'Oh, if that's what M. wants, We'd better do it and pronto'!
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Before an election many years ago, I led prayers in church and asked that issues of justice, equality, poverty etc. would come to the fore.
After the service an outraged member of the church came to me and said, "It's clear what party you vote for, and I will not be preached at in the prayers!"
In reply I told her that I was being strictly non-partisan; and that her assessment of my own voting choices might well be wrong.
Clearly I had touched a nerve (and, to be fair, my predecessor as Minister had explicitly advanced the cause of one party from the pulpit at a time when local politics in the area had tended towards extremism).
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Alyosha
Shipmate
# 18395
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Posted
The email says 'Christians prayed and God answered'. So maybe God did answer the prayers of those who prayed for a specific result - it's just that he answered 'yes' to some and 'no' to others.
Posts: 162 | From: UK | Registered: Apr 2015
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
I'm not against the idea of personal prayers expressing a preference for a candidate. I would, as always, pray with a "not my will, but yours" attitude and accept that sometimes God will say "for my own purposes I've chosen another option. Sorry about that, but it's 'no' this time."
I think public prayers in church or similar where there will almost certainly be people who will vote for different candidates are a different matter. I would expect that prayers that when we decide on who to vote for we display wisdom and discernment would be universally accepted. Unfortunately, although all parties would say that they stand for truth, justice and so on there is a strong perception within parts of the church that some parties are stronger on those points than others. Therefore prayers for such basic Christian virtues might be seen as partisan.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alyosha:
The email says 'Christians prayed and God answered'. So maybe God did answer the prayers of those who prayed for a specific result - it's just that he answered 'yes' to some and 'no' to others.
To LibDem supporters his answer was "You must be joking!"
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Alyosha
Shipmate
# 18395
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by Alyosha:
The email says 'Christians prayed and God answered'. So maybe God did answer the prayers of those who prayed for a specific result - it's just that he answered 'yes' to some and 'no' to others.
To LibDem supporters his answer was "You must be joking!"
![[Smile]](smile.gif) Yes - but maybe the Kingdom of Heaven is a liberal society? Although there are some who say that it is an absolute monarchy and working meritocracy under benevolent leadership.
The email is outrageous though. Thank God for people who object to it.
Posts: 162 | From: UK | Registered: Apr 2015
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alyosha:
The email says 'Christians prayed and God answered'. So maybe God did answer the prayers of those who prayed for a specific result - it's just that he answered 'yes' to some and 'no' to others.
Hmm. In that case you could probably achieve the same effect by praying to the local returning officer.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Alyosha
Shipmate
# 18395
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Alyosha:
The email says 'Christians prayed and God answered'. So maybe God did answer the prayers of those who prayed for a specific result - it's just that he answered 'yes' to some and 'no' to others.
Hmm. In that case you could probably achieve the same effect by praying to the local returning officer.
Just trying to follow the logic of the email.
Posts: 162 | From: UK | Registered: Apr 2015
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Yes, I understand, I wasn't criticising you at all.
It is in fact the most serious problem with this whole notion of praying for specific election results: that God is being bombarded with competing prayers.
The same with any sporting fixture, incidentally.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Demas:
Ignoring the specific question of whether God is a Tory, presumably it is legitimate in some circumstances to pray for a particular election outcome? And then thanking God if that prayed for outcome comes about?
If a candidate is clearly and avowedly evil then there must be a case for that.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
So God is a Tory south of the border and SNP in Scotland?
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Alyosha
Shipmate
# 18395
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Yes, I understand, I wasn't criticising you at all.
It is in fact the most serious problem with this whole notion of praying for specific election results: that God is being bombarded with competing prayers.
The same with any sporting fixture, incidentally.
Exactly. I don't really think that prayer had as much an effect on this election as Ed Miliband looking less of a competent leader did. I think that the way the party leaders looked to people was a much greater influence in this case. Even more influential than party policy.
Posts: 162 | From: UK | Registered: Apr 2015
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Alyosha
Shipmate
# 18395
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
So God is a Tory south of the border and SNP in Scotland?
God's will is only always done if you are happy with the status quo.
Posts: 162 | From: UK | Registered: Apr 2015
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
So God is a Tory south of the border and SNP in Scotland?
Not only that, but God didn't like Miliband, loathed Libdems, is warming up to UKIP, and has the hots for Nicola. It's quite hard to keep up, theologically speaking. Basically, God is converting to neoliberalism.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Going back to the OP: I'm not happy with what it says. However:
- the original message does explicitly say that it's not partisan, and could be construed simply as "we did pray, and God did respond" without making any more specific claims about His political preferences. However it doesn't sound like that!
- the message is written in a certain style of Evangelical/charismatic prayer-jargon which rubs many of us up the wrong way!
- more seriously, I think many Evangelicals may have been more pro-Tory because David Cameron has talked about the Faith in posaitive terms - albeit in a very vague way - while Miliband and Clegg have been avowedly atheist. (The fact that, for example, senior LibDems such as Tim Farron and the late lamented Simon Hughes are professing Christians seems to have passed them by, as does the existence of the "Christians on the Left" movement). These folk seem to be more concerned with the public rhetoric about Christianity uttered by the party leaders, and with the positions they have taken on DH issues of personal morality, than with the harder job of gauging how much each party advocates Christian values such as justice etc. But perhaps I'm being unfair.
[ 12. May 2015, 08:00: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
So God is a Tory south of the border and SNP in Scotland?
Not only that, but God didn't like Miliband, loathed Libdems, is warming up to UKIP, and has the hots for Nicola. It's quite hard to keep up, theologically speaking. Basically, God is converting to neoliberalism.
He is also spending more time at the pub with a view to being more populist, and learning to love the bagpipes.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Alan: sometimes?! God always answers with an internal Zen nod and true empathy. Whether I ask or not. I seek to find Him in every outcome. 1% of the time.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Baptist Trainfan: quote:
more seriously, I think many Evangelicals may have been more pro-Tory because David Cameron has talked about the Faith in positive terms - albeit in a very vague way - while Miliband and Clegg have been avowedly atheist. (The fact that, for example, senior LibDems such as Tim Farron and the late lamented Simon Hughes are professing Christians seems to have passed them by, as does the existence of the "Christians on the Left" movement). These folk seem to be more concerned with the public rhetoric about Christianity uttered by the party leaders, and with the positions they have taken on DH issues of personal morality, than with the harder job of gauging how much each party advocates Christian values such as justice etc.
I'd rather have an honest atheist committed to social justice than a nominal Christian dedicated to not rocking the boat for (other) millionaires. But I am obviously not a typical member of the C of E, and I may be doing Cameron an injustice (I have no idea how sincere he is in his faith).
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Demas
Ship's Deserter
# 24
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
So God is a Tory south of the border and SNP in Scotland?
Not only that, but God didn't like Miliband, loathed Libdems, is warming up to UKIP, and has the hots for Nicola. It's quite hard to keep up, theologically speaking. Basically, God is converting to neoliberalism.
God also hardened Pharaoh's heart.
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They did not appear very religious; that is, they were not melancholy; and I therefore suspected they had not much piety - Life of Rev John Murray
Posts: 1894 | From: Thessalonica | Registered: May 2004
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
At least it's just elections where God is always on our side, rather than the sorts of sides He was allegedly taking 100 years ago...
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
It never ceases to amaze me that supposedly Christian people are prepared, purely on the basis of perceived difference in values, to heap opprobrium on politicians mainly of the right.
If the election of a Labour government had attracted half the outpourings seen here, and in the press, there would have been outrage. Similarly, I can't imagine that an organised session of vandalism on the part of right-wing youth, culminating in the targeting of a war memorial, would have been excused.
Whether or not one likes the result is irrelevant: the people of the UK voted and, with the voting system we have, the result is a conservative majority government for the next 5 years; and you can disagree with the voting method too but when given a chance to change the UK public decided to stick with first-past-the-post.
As for the argument that "only" x% bothered to vote, therefore the government has even less support, this is quite wrong: if people have a vote and choose not to use it they cannot then complain of being unrepresented - even a spoiled ballot is better than a non-vote because it will be registered.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
I entirely agree with you last paragraph. That is why, among other things, the Government's proposals to require at least 40% of eligible union members to vote for a strike to be legal are wrong.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
IMV voting should be compulsory - and all ballots should have a box on them for "None of the above".
It is also high time that the concerns expressed by the Electoral Commission about electoral fraud were properly addressed.
First and foremost, surely the case of Lutfur Rahman has shown that relying on the police to investigate electoral malpractice is hopeless?
There are common-sense steps that should be taken now to ensure that electoral fraud is made as difficult as possible:
- restricting postal voting - with polling stations open for 15 hours it should be possible for everyone to get to one
- proxy votes should be closely scrutinised
- consider changing the day on which votes are held - how about a Sundays
- would-be voters should need to take some form of identification
- registering to vote should be done by individuals, not householders
As for the proposal on union ballots: I think it is going to be hard for a government of any colour to impose tougher rules on union votes until they have taken steps to tighten up the procedure for government elections.
And while they're at it - and bearing in mind the redevelopment of Parliament that is long overdue - how about they look at replacing the archaic system for Parliamentary votes with something more modern and less time-consuming?
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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