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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: What does "blessing" involve?
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hatless
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# 3365
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Posted
If one vicar thinks a candle must be blessed and another doesn't, then this is a strange sort of authority that looks like a personal preference. I don't like deferring to my boss's whims.
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My crazy theology in novel form
Posts: 4531 | From: Stinkers | Registered: Sep 2002
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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
At a CofE school the associated CofE vicar has spiritual authority, irrespective of whether they are Chair of Governors or whatever. Prayer time is clearly a spiritual activity. The vicar was well within her rights to expect to be consulted on how that activity was to be held.
Mmm ... I think that's a moot point. The CofE website says, "The governing body is (sometimes) referred to as the critical friend of the school. It is a strategic role: governors are not involved in the day to day running of the school: that is the responsibility of the headteacher". It could therefore be argued that, while the Vicar could suggest that the candle be blessed, she could not do more; and the Deputy Head would have been within her rights to ignore that advice. I'm not sure about this; and I suspect that the authority of the PP in a Catholic school may be more wide-ranging.
We seem to be going off on a bit of a tangent ...
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
We seem to be going off on a bit of a tangent ...
Yes, sorry about that.
My real question is - did anything at all happen to that candle, how was it different before it was blessed?
30% of the children at the school are Muslims, I wonder what they thought of candle blessing?
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128
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Posted
Yes, and the question applies equally to Lifeboats, Bells (and other items of church furniture and clothing), Land Rovers being sent to developing countries for relief work, and so on.
Clearly there is some kind of an OT precedent (e.g. the Temple fittings and furnishings). But is that still relevant today?
And, to add another thought which has just come into my head: does the act of blessing effect ontological change in he substance or being of the object being blessed? Or is its primary purpose really to denote its "setting-apartness" or "dedication" to the watchers of the ceremony and, indeed, users of said objects?
In other words, is it basically the sticking of a "spiritual label" onto the object (knowing how churches like to stick plaques onto things, the label could also be a literal one!) To what extent does "blessing" an object confer some kind of approval upon it, in the same way as having the Queen to officially open one's shiny new hospital?
(N.B. When we come to the blessing of people other questions might come into play, as suggested by Hatless, as people being blessed can make some kind of response to what is going on).
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
Baptist Trainfan, your latest "non-onotological" speculations come remarkably close to what is basically the standard / traditional point of view (of the RCC). If I can perhaps point you to excerpt I posted earlier? Read items two and three on the list, and the paragraph after the list.
Blessings are indeed not about ontological change (a blessed candle remains just a candle), but about attaching a "spiritual label" proposing to the people that this is for God and/or to God that He may keep this in His good graces.
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128
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Posted
Thank you, I had indeed missed your earlier post.
However, in popular religion at least, people do tend to think that some kind of ontological change has taken place in the object blessed. For instance, the lifeboat will be less likely to founder and be better at rescuing people, the car will in some sense be "luckier", the work you do in the specified building will be more likely to achieve some kind of spiritual "success", the medicine you imbibe will be more efficacious ... and so on. Equally, a baby who has been blessed will be more likely to "thrive". Why? Because God has blessed/is blessing it. To me this smacks of magic.
P.S. I'm not saying, at all, that this is how you think!
[ 29. May 2015, 16:32: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
From the quoted material in IngoB's post that he just linked to (emphasis mine):
quote:
With these various significations it is not the present purpose to deal. Coming, then, to its strictly liturgical and restricted sense, blessing may be described as a rite, consisting of a ceremony and prayers performed in the name and with the authority of the Church by a duly qualified minister, by which persons or things are sanctified as dedicated to Divine service, or by which certain marks of Divine favour are invoked upon them.
Might one not expect that these "certain marks of divine favour" be the kinds of things you mention, outo? The lifeboat will work better, the baby will thrive, etc.?
If not, then what are "marks of divine favour"? Are they anything we can perceive?
[ 29. May 2015, 16:45: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
Sorry, Baptist Trainfan, I meant your name, not outo. Sorry to be so confused.
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Might one not expect that these "certain marks of divine favour" be the kinds of things you mention, outo? The lifeboat will work better, the baby will thrive, etc.? If not, then what are "marks of divine favour"? Are they anything we can perceive?
Well, there's this potential difference between the Divine favours we pray for and the Divine favours we receive... Job, for instance, was constantly favoured by God, but he certainly enjoyed the kind of favour that he got before and after more than the favour to be God's chosen demonstrator to Satan...
While there certainly is superstitious "good luck charm" thinking going on in folk religion, I think one shouldn't stress that too much. I think most people who have their car blessed are aware that blessed cars can crash. You will see them driving away with the security belt fastened... I feel that even in folk religion these things mostly become a way of explicitly dedicating a chunk of your life to God. Truth to be told, we are probably not in constant prayer to God when we drive our cars around. But if you go to the priest and have your car blessed, there's at least this one occasion where car driving and God overlap. (*)
I think a blessing is basically a "God be with this" signifier. It is human to hope that this translates into good luck, it is Christian to know that it may translate into a cross.
(*) FWIW, my car is not blessed, and my engagement with blessings is pretty much limited to using Holy Water for crossing myself at church. There's a cultural aspects to this, and since I did not grow up Christian or Catholic, these things do not come natural to me personally. My loss, probably, but I wanted to mention that this is mostly theory for me...
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Which ALWAYS endears.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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hatless
Shipmate
# 3365
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Posted
I was in a wide ranging conversation this morning which repeatedly returned to blessing as a central part of Christianity. Being blessed is our characteristic experience of God, and it sets the tone for the life of faith and the life of the church; we are to bless others.
Blessing is indeed transactional, but it is one way, a true gift, like a blast from the sun. So it forgives all debts and forgets to worry about future shortages. The recipient of uncosted grace is set free, and charged with grace to give to others.
It's the antidote to the falling numbers institutional panic of the church in our time, the fearfulness that makes us turn inward and grow self-obsessed, substituting church growth for God's mission. We often seem to think that we cannot afford to be generous, welcoming, forgiving and gracious as if we might run out of kindness or be weakened or develop a love debt. Blessing shows us that the opposite is true. (And may make us wonder if the same holds in economics as well.)
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My crazy theology in novel form
Posts: 4531 | From: Stinkers | Registered: Sep 2002
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