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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Neale Donald Walsch
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Eirenist
Shipmate
# 13343
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Posted
I am in charge of our Church Library. Two books by Neale Donald Walsch have been donated: Conversations with God (Part 1) and The New Revelations. I am innately suspicious of 'new revelations', and from what I have been able to gather about Mr Walsch he seems to be something of a post-Christian New Ager. Has any shipmate any further information or advice? Do I need to plough through these books before deciding whether or not to give them shelf space, which we are running out of?
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'I think I think, therefore I think I am'
Posts: 486 | From: Darkest Metroland | Registered: Jan 2008
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Helen-Eva
Shipmate
# 15025
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Posted
I have never heard of Neale Donald Walsch. I suggest you stick the books in the library and put up a sign saying "Books in this library have been donated by church members - they do not necessarily represent the teachings of this Church". Otherwise you have to vet the theology of every book you get and/or risk offending the people who donate books and both of those would be a Bad Thing.
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I thought the radio 3 announcer said "Weber" but it turned out to be Webern. Story of my life.
Posts: 637 | From: London, hopefully in a theatre or concert hall, more likely at work | Registered: Aug 2009
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Helen-Eva
Shipmate
# 15025
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Posted
Sorry for double post - I forgot to say - if you're short of shelf space you could hold a booksale and raise a bit of money.
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I thought the radio 3 announcer said "Weber" but it turned out to be Webern. Story of my life.
Posts: 637 | From: London, hopefully in a theatre or concert hall, more likely at work | Registered: Aug 2009
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
According to wikipedia and IMDB, Walsch wrote and acted in a movie promoting the idea of Indigo Children.
Do not walk, RUN, away from this guy and his books.
[ 07. July 2015, 17:27: Message edited by: Stetson ]
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
I first heard of him in the late 90s. His work is in the same league as Jonathan Livingstone Seagull.
His work is so far from orthodoxy, it makes The Shack look likes Calvin's Institutes.
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
Posts: 3791 | From: On the corporate ladder | Registered: Jan 2012
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Sipech. LOL!
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Helen-Eva
Shipmate
# 15025
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Posted
OK now I'm intrigued and going to google this guy!
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I thought the radio 3 announcer said "Weber" but it turned out to be Webern. Story of my life.
Posts: 637 | From: London, hopefully in a theatre or concert hall, more likely at work | Registered: Aug 2009
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Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
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Posted
Anyone who entitles one of his books; "God's Message to the World - You've got Me All Wrong" is in need of a reality check. His Twitter feed seems to be one long list of trite aphorisms - although that might be giving them too much weight.
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
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Humble Servant
Shipmate
# 18391
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jack o' the Green:
His Twitter feed seems to be one long list of trite aphorisms - although that might be giving them too much weight.
I was lent one of his books back in the 1990s when I was only just starting my Christian journey. I think it was the first "Conversations with God" book. I remember thinking the same about the book too - trite aphorisms. I decided this was not the God I was seeking and gave it back unread.
Posts: 241 | Registered: Apr 2015
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Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
According to wikipedia and IMDB, Walsch wrote and acted in a movie promoting the idea of Indigo Children.
Do not walk, RUN, away from this guy and his books.
For those, like me, who may have forgotten what indigo children allegedly are, here's what wikipedia has on the subject.
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Siegfried
Life is just a bowl of cherries!
Posts: 5592 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001
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Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
According to wikipedia and IMDB, Walsch wrote and acted in a movie promoting the idea of Indigo Children.
Do not walk, RUN, away from this guy and his books.
For those, like me, who may have forgotten what indigo children allegedly are, here's what wikipedia has on the subject.
Oh, dear Lord! A study of these children in mid adulthood would make facinating reading.
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I knew a child like that - I don't think his mother knew about the indigoness, but she had got him into Mensa and he was quite sure he was on a higher level than his teachers. This allowed him to believe it was OK to hit staff by throwing stones at them. He got excluded.
I'm not entirely proud of having got him to allow that I did know stuff.
He got into the grammar school, whence he was sent to a special place for very difficult children.
He got into Imperial College, but then removed himself and went to a kibbutz. (Not Jewish, as far as I ever knew. I think his mother would have complained of antisemitism when he was criticised if he had been.)
After that, the trail went cold, and as I have forgotten his name (he wasn't in my class), I can't see if he has an academic publishing record.
Odd that the indigo lot picked on the invented colour that was only there so Newton could match the spectrum with Pythagoras' seven notes of the musical scale. And Newton was probably one of these difficult people, as well.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Helen-Eva:
Otherwise you have to vet the theology of every book you get and/or risk offending the people who donate books and both of those would be a Bad Thing.
Surely the point of a church library is that it is a place where church members may easily obtain theological books and the like that are approved of by the church. If you're not going to vet the theology, what's the point of it?
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Do you have the impression that these books have been specially purchased to be donated, or have been given to the church because the donors don't want them any more but wanted them to go to a good home?
Our local Oxfam shop seems to be a regular place for the latter sort of donation of questionable religious works. I was once moved to purchase one to remove it from circulation.
You could put them in the library, borrow them, and then lose them. This is something that happens to books anyway.
If specially purchased, that is more difficult.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
It's been my experience with church libraries that many are donated but few are checked out. Often none at all for years at a time, but just to be safe, I like Penny's idea.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Penny S: You could put them in the library, borrow them, and then lose them.
Wow, that's some brilliant mojo. I'm impressed.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
Why are we arguing for censorship here? It seems terribly illiberal. The mainstream denominations currently house a vast diversity of theological opinion and personal lifestyles, so it seems churlish and paternalistic to point the finger at a few dodgy popular authors and claim that the non-specialists in the pews must be protected from them.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Helen-Eva
Shipmate
# 15025
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Helen-Eva:
Otherwise you have to vet the theology of every book you get and/or risk offending the people who donate books and both of those would be a Bad Thing.
Surely the point of a church library is that it is a place where church members may easily obtain theological books and the like that are approved of by the church. If you're not going to vet the theology, what's the point of it?
I think we must have different images in our heads of "church library". In my experience it's a sort of scruffy shelf of second hand books of a vaguely theological nature at the back of the church as donated by the parishioners downsizing their own bookshelves. If they get taken away and not returned, nobody really minds [edit: I wrote this referring to the books but it may also refer to the parishioners]. Vetting their theological content would be massive overkill as probably (as someone else said) nobody is going to read the dratted things.
[ 09. July 2015, 08:53: Message edited by: Helen-Eva ]
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I thought the radio 3 announcer said "Weber" but it turned out to be Webern. Story of my life.
Posts: 637 | From: London, hopefully in a theatre or concert hall, more likely at work | Registered: Aug 2009
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Helen-Eva
Shipmate
# 15025
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Posted
Come to think of it "vetting their theological content would be overkill" probably relates to Anglican parishioners too.
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I thought the radio 3 announcer said "Weber" but it turned out to be Webern. Story of my life.
Posts: 637 | From: London, hopefully in a theatre or concert hall, more likely at work | Registered: Aug 2009
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
As some one who is a librarian by profession and has dabbled in helping out in church libraries as a busman's holiday, I'd be wary of not stocking books because you disagree with the content. Do you have a section for 'other' where you could store them?
On the other hand I always make it clear when given donations at my day job if they are not suitable because of age, content (I work in a school) etc I will donate them to out local charity shop.
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
Posts: 2035 | From: London | Registered: Jan 2007
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
I mostly agree with the "no censorship" approach espoused by others here, assuming people aren't donating their old pornography to the church libo.
When I was an active churchgoer, I checked materials out of my church's library at the rate of perhaps 1 or 2 every month or two, and the librarian once confided to me that I was far and away her "best customer."
I remember prowling our shelves and finding loads of New Age crap, stuff from earlier centuries endorsing views this liberal denom eschewed, and so on.
Unless you've been specifically tasked to stock church shelves with theology consistent with current church teaching (and remember that, in a hundred years, some of that will no longer be endorsed), I wouldn't worry. Most readers will recognize crap for what it is, and those who don't will find all sorts of opportunities to fall into theological error without ever setting foot in your library.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
You could do something with the way you label the sections. A set of serious labels - Church History, Early Fathers, God the Father, The Incarnation, whatever, and then, a title that encodes that the books are not wholly reliable, such as Modern Spirituality, or Complementary Religion or something.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Humble Servant
Shipmate
# 18391
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
a title that encodes that the books are not wholly reliable, such as Modern Spirituality, or Complementary Religion or something.
"Mumbo Jumbo", perhaps?
Posts: 241 | Registered: Apr 2015
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Why are we arguing for censorship here? It seems terribly illiberal. The mainstream denominations currently house a vast diversity of theological opinion and personal lifestyles, so it seems churlish and paternalistic to point the finger at a few dodgy popular authors and claim that the non-specialists in the pews must be protected from them.
As someone who more or less suggested trashing the books in question, I am gonna take some polite exception to the word "censorship". I'm completely opposed to almost all censorship, but I also think private venues have the right to decide what they will and will not host.
But then, I'm also a guy who thinks book-burning is a completely acceptable(if asinine) way to express one's disagreement with the books in question. As long as you're the rightful owner of the books.
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Humble Servant:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
a title that encodes that the books are not wholly reliable, such as Modern Spirituality, or Complementary Religion or something.
"Mumbo Jumbo", perhaps?
That is, I suspect, racist! And I was trying to be polite to the donors.
Whereas when I used to hide the self published Odinist tract that had found its way into the public library under the guise of anthropology behind the shelving, I wasn't. (This book claimed that the creating personage had put different races in different places so they didn't mix.)
Stetson, I have been known to shred and compost books. I feel it is more appropriate than burning.
[ 09. July 2015, 15:47: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
At the risk of throwing the proverbial cat among the pigeons, is there not a kind of censorship in all libraries and bookshops anyway?
It's called choice.
The church library where I worship is rather skewed as the church had pastor who became very well known, so almost every book is either a book by him or about him. Other books aren't banned, they're just not chosen.
If I think about the two local bookshops near where I work (Church House Bookshop and the Catholic Truth Society), each choose things that broadly reflect their view and neither stock much from a non-conformist view. Does that mean that con-conformists are being censored? Prejudiced against, maybe; but not necessarily censored.
So where do we draw the line between choosing not to include something and actually censoring it?
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
Posts: 3791 | From: On the corporate ladder | Registered: Jan 2012
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
Sipech wrote:
quote:
So where do we draw the line between choosing not to include something and actually censoring it?
It's pretty simple, in my view. Censorship is when the government tries to stop something from being produced, distributed, or consumed, under penalty of law. It does not include any instances where a private venue voluntarily decides it doesn't want to participate in the production, distribution, or consumption of the material.
So, eg. the government deciding they're going to arrest people for selling the Bible: censosrship. A bookstore deciding that because the Bible has caused so much suffering they don't want to carry it anymore: not censorship(though still kinda goofy). It's their bookstore, they can sell what they want.
And I'd also throw in under the censosrship label instances where people are subject to violent attack or threats thereof, to stop them from producing, selling, or consuming something. Since that involves the same sort of coercion(actually, worse) than is involved in government censorship.
[ 09. July 2015, 16:39: Message edited by: Stetson ]
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
There is also the more Darwinian scale of money. Someone gives the church a book. Is this because he/she bought it and felt it would do the congregation good? Or is it because she wants to get rid of it and now can take it as a deduction on her taxes?
If nobody buys a book in the store, it is not wrong of the store to quit carrying it. The store is not in the business of improving public taste or grinding a particular philosophy, it's in the business of making money.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
Clough wrote:
quote:
If nobody buys a book in the store, it is not wrong of the store to quit carrying it. The store is not in the business of improving public taste or grinding a particular philosophy, it's in the business of making money.
Agreed. But, just to play Devil's Advocate for a sec, what do you think about cases where an organized group of people notify the store to the effect that "If you don't pull Book X from your shelves, we will no longer buy anything from your store"? In other words, a mass boycott aimed at getting the book removed, by targeting other products?
The religious wing of the US anti-pornography movement used that tact succesfully against 7-11 in the late 80s, getting them to pull Playboy and Penthouse from their stores, under threat of a boycott. Personally, I had no problem with that, since people are free to make any demands they want of a retailer, and the retailer is in turn free to accept or reject them. And if there is enough demand for the magazines in question, other stores will surely continue to sell them.
But I do remember people at the time denouncing the anti-7/11 Porn camapaign as a violation of their right to read what they want.
[ 09. July 2015, 17:21: Message edited by: Stetson ]
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
It's a two way street. You have your store -- sell what you want. But I, I have my money. I spend it where I want.
If you do not stock what I want to buy, I naturally won't spend any money there; this is the reason why I don't go to golf equipment shops. But you may also declare that you do not serve my kind of person -- my color, or gender, or religion, or whatever. That is fine too. Your store, your business. But then I think you should say so out front so that I don't embarrass the both of us by actually going into your store and expecting to be treated like other people. And then, if my relatives and friends and neighbors are offended at your not serving me? Well, remember they are free to do as they want, masters of their own wallets. It's a harsh Darwinian marketplace out there, and if you want to turn away customers that is your problem.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Why are we arguing for censorship here? It seems terribly illiberal.
I'm not arguing for censorship. A church library choosing to not stock a particular book is not censorship.
One can obtain all manner of religious and quasi-religious books in bookstores or at the local public library. To make it worthwhile operating a church library, it has to offer something that the public library cannot. To me, that obvious thing is a screen against claptrap and heresy.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
Churches can do what they like about their libraries, of course - although I too find that 'church libraries' mostly appear to be jumbles of ageing, tatty, donated books. Maybe some weeding out occurs by enthusiastic individuals, but I doubt that most mainstream churches have a serious policy about it.
As I see it, the problem, as I said above, is that mainstream churches are not really set up to weed out 'heresy'. The clergy are trained to avoid controversy in their sermons, but there's little precise teaching about doctrines. Small groups with the aim of impressing orthodoxy on lay minds are rare in such churches, and if they exist, they find it hard to attract a majority of members. Liturgies tend to emphasise a shared heritage rather than to impose a uniformity of belief. And surely everyone knows by now that our clergy can't be guaranteed to hold orthodox positions on doctrinal matters.
All this being the case, I can't understand how the average mainstream church would be justified in fussing about the odd copy of something dog-eared and dodgy coming in. Maybe scrutiny would be greater over a batch of more recent books, which might actually be borrowed and read. And churches with lots of impressionable young adults around might reasonably make more of an effort. But the average British Methodist church isn't going to be turned upside down by a copy of something by NDW.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
What it sounds very analogous to is the bookcase in the lounge at the beach resort. People drop books off there at the end of their stay, because it's too much trouble to haul the beach novel back, and anyway the suitcase is full of souvenir bottles of rum and the big straw hat. Other visitors take any really good books, to read on the airplane on the way home. (I acquired a lovely trade paper UK edition of An Instance of the Fingerpost that way.) After a great many turns of the sifter handle only the truly unloveable volumes are left.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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itsarumdo
Shipmate
# 18174
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Posted
It's an interesting point I need to consider a bit more carefully. I have a gradually expanding library of books - and really good books should be somehow passed round.
I guess there are two motivations for giving books to libraries.
One is that we need more room on our shelves for books we really want to have there (i.e. the book is a dud), and we are not really sharing something good, but making use of the library to take rubbish off our hands. The other main (possible) reason is that we would really like someone else to be inspired by this book. If something is donated to a library, it should really be motivated by the latter rather than the former, and it might be a useful statement to make to potential donors.
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"Iti sapis potanda tinone" Lycophron
Posts: 994 | From: Planet Zog | Registered: Jul 2014
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
It's a two way street. You have your store -- sell what you want. But I, I have my money. I spend it where I want.
If you do not stock what I want to buy, I naturally won't spend any money there; this is the reason why I don't go to golf equipment shops. But you may also declare that you do not serve my kind of person -- my color, or gender, or religion, or whatever. That is fine too. Your store, your business. But then I think you should say so out front so that I don't embarrass the both of us by actually going into your store and expecting to be treated like other people. And then, if my relatives and friends and neighbors are offended at your not serving me? Well, remember they are free to do as they want, masters of their own wallets. It's a harsh Darwinian marketplace out there, and if you want to turn away customers that is your problem.
Clough:
I think we basically agree about this, though you seem to frame your arguments more in terms of a "Darwinian" free market, whereas I don't think the concepts of free-speech and freedom-of-association need be rooted in such ground.
An objection I sometimes hear to mass boycotts, such as the anti-porn campaign against 711 in the 80s, is that the participants aren't really making a free choice, because they all just mindlessly follow the lead of whichever moral entrepreneur they happen to subscribe to(Jerry Falwell etc for the anti-porn campaigners) I never found that a very convincing rebuttal, since you could say the same about almost any boycott campaign.
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
A more up-to-date complaint might be that boycotts are easily 'viral', fueled by Facebook or Twitter posts that are sometimes entirely inaccurate.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
A more up-to-date complaint might be that boycotts are easily 'viral', fueled by Facebook or Twitter posts that are sometimes entirely inaccurate.
Depending what the law is in a given jurisdiction, it might be possible to launch legal action against the spread of false information, as happened in the 90s to some Amway distributors who had circulated the rumours about Proctor And Gamble being owned by satanists.
But that was done under laws against unfair competition, which I assume are only applicable to business entities. Apart from such recourse, I think we're pretty much just stuck with companies having to endure speciously grounded boycotts in the internet age.
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
When I was 16 I had a summer holiday job in the library department of my local authority. The local authority were setting up a new branch library stocked with books from existing branch libraries. My job was to remove the old date stamp sheets, stick in new ones, replace scruffy plastic jackets etc.
I did this in the library dept secret book room. The local authority at some time in the distant past had been bequeathed two collections. One was of masonic literature, the other was pornography. Books in these collections could be borrowed by request, but they were not included in the main catalogue. If someone was interested, they first had to request the secret catalogue, then request the book they wanted. In writing.
No one ever did.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
When I was 16 I had a summer holiday job in the library department of my local authority. The local authority were setting up a new branch library stocked with books from existing branch libraries. My job was to remove the old date stamp sheets, stick in new ones, replace scruffy plastic jackets etc.
I did this in the library dept secret book room. The local authority at some time in the distant past had been bequeathed two collections. One was of masonic literature, the other was pornography. Books in these collections could be borrowed by request, but they were not included in the main catalogue. If someone was interested, they first had to request the secret catalogue, then request the book they wanted. In writing.
No one ever did.
I understand the reason for keeping pornography at an arm's-length from the general public, but I'm curious about their rationale for doing the same with masonic literature. Would it have been out of deference to the Lodge's own desire for secrecy? Or as a bow to anti-Masonic sentiment which views Masonry as harmful? Or...?
[ 15. July 2015, 17:43: Message edited by: Stetson ]
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
I think there may have been something in the bequest that only masons could borrow them, and the council had no way of checking. But I really don't know. Both collections were quite old. One of the masonic ones was a photographic record of members of the royal family in full regalia and iirc the most recent photo was George v. I did have a trawl through the masonic ones looking for recent photos, but couldn't find any.
No idea why the masonic collection hadn't been left to a lodge.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
The particular lodge had closed.
It was the wrong sort of lodge, and the books contained material relating to higher and more private levels.
The lodge already had copies of the stuff. Several, as members died and bequeathed their collections.
The lodge had a policy of not lending stuff to certain members, and the donor wanted the stuff available to those below the salt.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
The particular lodge had closed.
It was the wrong sort of lodge, and the books contained material relating to higher and more private levels.
The lodge already had copies of the stuff. Several, as members died and bequeathed their collections.
The lodge had a policy of not lending stuff to certain members, and the donor wanted the stuff available to those below the salt.
Well, if that's the case, the donor was essentially using the public libraries to distribute books among Masons, while keeping them unavailable from the general public. Not quite what I would see as a library's mandate. (Though probably good fodder for a Monty Python skit set at a libray checkout counter.)
[ 15. July 2015, 20:15: Message edited by: Stetson ]
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
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Penny S
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# 14768
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Posted
Sorry, I was not entirely clear that I was not entirely serious!
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Stetson
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# 9597
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Sorry, I was not entirely clear that I was not entirely serious!
Oops! Always kinda stings to get caught in a ruse.
In my defense, the scenario you set up isn't all THAT much more ludicrous than a real-life scenario of books being donated to a library with the caveat that they only be lent out to members of a certain club. (As speculated, not implausibly, by North East Quine.)
A less loopy explanation might be that the donor was cool with them being seen by the public, but didn't want them to fall directly into the hands of anti-masonic budybodies(who might "lose" them or display them as part of anti-Lodge propaganda), and thought that lending them out only to Masons(who could then exercise some authority over who gets to see them) would be a good buffer between the library and the zealots.
[ 15. July 2015, 20:46: Message edited by: Stetson ]
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Leorning Cniht
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# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
As I see it, the problem, as I said above, is that mainstream churches are not really set up to weed out 'heresy'.
Isn't that what the imprimatur of an RC Bishop does? It says that the Bishop has reviewed the theological work in question and finds it free of heresy.
Of course, other "ecclesial communities" tend to permit rather more doctrinal variation than Rome...
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SvitlanaV2
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# 16967
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Posted
I must admit, I wasn't really thinking about the RCC, but perhaps they're more particular about these things.
In general, I'm not sure that heresy is an entirely meaningful concept in other historical denominations. Maybe we need to adopt a different word.
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