Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Do evangelicals love or hate their Jesus?
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Okay, I think you've put your finger on it. I read:
quote: Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...: Obedience must be a central value; does Jesus command your obedience? Certainly not mine.
as:
... Is your obedience [to himself] something Jesus has the right to command?...
and apparently it really meant:
... Does Jesus command [you to give] your obedience [to religious superiors]?
If that's the case, then my confusion was due to a misreading. Thanks much! [ 12. August 2015, 06:11: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
-------------------- Er, this is what I've been up to (book). Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Lamb Chopped: As for trust, I think you can make a case for saying that trust is a form of obedience--or obedience is a form of trust--or both together. They certainly seem to go together in time.
I think it's quite easy to prise apart trust and obedience. I will most likely obey a man with a gun to my head, even if I don't trust him for a minute. I trust my wife implicitly, but I don't obey her.
-------------------- This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Yes indeed. Whether one works in terms of theosis (Orthodox) or sanctification, willing and trusting obedience are brought more fully by increasing Christ-likeness. But when it comes to obeying human beings with all sorts of power advantages, superior force is likely to have more influence.
On the way to our ultimate destiny, obedience may be accompanied by gritted teeth of course, given the imperfect understanding by ourselves (and those in authority over us in our churches) of the Divine Will and Divine purposes. Conscience has a proper part to play in all of that.
We all see the sense of these famous sayings.
quote: “A man convinced against his will Is of the same opinion still” ― Dale Carnegie
"We must alter our lives in order to alter our hearts, for it is impossible to live one way and pray another.
He who has learned to pray has learned the greatest secret of a holy and happy life.
If you have not chosen the Kingdom of God first, it will in the end make no difference what you have chosen instead.
Humility is nothing else but a right judgment of ourselves." - William Law
[ 12. August 2015, 08:54: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
-------------------- Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Aaaarghhhh. MT, that was with reference to Christ--not to any kind of trust/obedience that ever existed.
-------------------- Er, this is what I've been up to (book). Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Lamb Chopped: Aaaarghhhh. MT, that was with reference to Christ--not to any kind of trust/obedience that ever existed.
That wasn't clear to me, especially when you added, "I could equally well say this to my kid."
-------------------- This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Lamb Chopped: Heard of analogies before?
Yes. And I've also heard of examples. If it's unclear which of the two a writer is presenting, it's seldom the fault of the reader.
-------------------- This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
First rule of hermeneutics: If one reading makes the author look like a raving loon, while the other is mildly reasonable, the second is to be preferred. Unless one is point scoring on Ship of Fools, of course.
-------------------- Er, this is what I've been up to (book). Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Or foolishly thinking that maybe somebody hasn't thought out all the implications of their statements. Which never, ever, never happens here.
-------------------- This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Well, they are coming back, these not-so-evangelical rellies of mine. Due in just more than 2 days. I have become convinced from the posts on this thread that I have besmirched the moniker 'evangelical' due to lack of understanding how genial and companionable many of you are. Educational. Sorry for besmirching the moniker 'evangelical'. These are merely my 'godless rellies who are somehow into God'.
To prepare, I have changed the wireless network name to "just say no to stephen", meaning Harper, who besides being the prime minister of Canada and campaigning for re-election on 19 Oct, is their like minded conservative in mind, religion, spirit and neckties. (I will have to clear it with the powers that be in this house to see if I get to leave it.) We have planned some activities and food that hopefully will keep the conversation topical to what we're doing, but we are not going to hide the wine this time.
-------------------- Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety. \_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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