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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Songs of Praise from Calais ?
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PeteB
Shipmate
# 2357
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Posted
(For those outside the UK, 'Songs Of Praise' is a weekly radio programme of 'favourite' hymns and Christian commentary.)
Strong rumours that tomorrow (9th Aug) Songs of Praise will be recording at least one hymn from the refugee camp in Calais Grauniad article with the programme likely to be aired next week. In a different article, the Guardian has a pic of the makeshift church built by refugees at the camp - a wistful representation of a half-timbered English country church perhaps? Calais church
Thought it might be of interest - and maybe raise some questions like:
1. This is being hailed as a brave decision. Yes?
2. How and what might it change?
3. Does it make one feel better about being a Christian? Or is it an embarassment? Irrelevant?
Pete
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
It's a great article by Giles Fraser, and the venue would definitely make a change from the traditional Songs of Praise diet (or so I imagine).
If there's a message, it's that people are to be found worshipping the God of the Bible in unlikely, or unforeseen places. One of the reasons I love doing chapel in prison, and of which I was also powerfully reminded earlier this week in a tent meeting conducted by local gypsies near here with a congregation of well over 200, half not Christian, and plenty more listening in from outside - and the rest of the local population no doubt completely unaware.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
1. I'm not amazed that Giles Fraser is making his way to Calais, but surely if SoP is trying to highlight the plight of would-be migrants they can do so without a grandstanding cleric?
2. I think regular watchers of SoP may find the traditional music of the Coptic Church challenging - and there definitely won't be anything that Aled Jones can join in with.
3. Even getting some migrants to identify as Christian may be not only fraught with difficulty but put them in danger: there have been reliable reports of Christians being cast overboard by their fellow would-be migrants on boats from Libya.
What interests me is that the Beeb advertises SoP as coming from churches all over the UK: does this mean that the loss of Calais in 1558 has somehow escaped the attention of our national broadcaster and they are operating under the misapprehension that it is still part of the UK?
[ 07. August 2015, 22:39: Message edited by: L'organist ]
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
Of course, Calais was never part of the UK, but a possession of the King of France (also the King of England until 1801)-- having attended Ethiopian and Eritrean services, I think it safe to say that it will be like nothing most CoE listeners (and Canadians) would have heard before.
In any case, I would share Eutychus' sentiments that worship in difficult circumstances is extraordinary and, perhaps, carries with it a certain grace.
Even in the circumstances of the refugee camp at Calais, note that the first response of many of the refugees was to worship and to build a church. It might be useful to just import them and have them to the church planting of which we hear so much in other threads.
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
Brave: Yes it is, but I think it was just planned as something relevant, not as a "brave move". It is only brave because the right-wing press are making it seem so.
What might it change: An acceptance of them as people. Seeing then as people is a good thing.
It makes me feel better about being a Christian, because these are the poor, the disadvantaged, the oppressed.
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
Songs of Praise has recently changed its format. It was felt that the old format was dated and tired. Now they have a format where they travel through the UK and have reports from all around the country rather than one church and community where they all sing loads of hymns together with a karaoke ticker down the bottom of the screen. Some aspects have remained unchanged, but it was felt necessary to do this to breathe life back into an ageing format and the BBC still feels it should have it as a portion of its duty to religious broadcasting. It was felt that re-jigging the format might increase viewing figures which were starting to flag.
I note they don't say when it will be aired, but rather viewers should tune in, in hopes of seeing it.
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
I note they don't say when it will be aired, but rather viewers should tune in, in hopes of seeing it.
Next week, 16th Aug
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Paul.:
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
I note they don't say when it will be aired, but rather viewers should tune in, in hopes of seeing it.
Next week, 16th Aug
I suspect they have been cagey about it because they didn't want all sorts of protests during the filming, and they had to make sure they had something they could show. It seems like a cop-out if they made a big thing of it, but found that there was nothing they could really use (or where they had to do something less that they wanted).
I presume it has now been filmed, and they can be sure.
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Lord may all my hard times be healing times
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
I don't know. There is something about it all that feels a tiny bit exploitative to me. I guess I shouldn't really be saying that before viewing, but that feels a little like a catch 22 situation.
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
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Humble Servant
Shipmate
# 18391
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PeteB:
3. Does it make one feel better about being a Christian? Or is it an embarassment? Irrelevant?
Pete
I don't know about feeling better about being Christian, but it made me feel a lot better about Songs of Praise. I even set it to record so I don't miss this episode. I normally don't bother with it. I normally see SoP as irrelevant and an embarrassment, even since becoming a Christian.
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*Leon*
Shipmate
# 3377
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Posted
Maybe it's not happening The Eritrean priest has pulled out on the grounds that the program might result in reprisals against the families of members of the church.
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
I like the way the paper publishes a photo of him anyway ![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Catching a glimpse of that foul rag the Daily Wail in the rack outside my corner shop today, I see that it is, predictably, railing at the waste of licence-payers' money on broadcasting SoP from the 'lawless migrant ghetto'.... ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
The right-wing gutter press makes me ![[Projectile]](graemlins/puke2.gif)
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Indeed. I think that the SoP team appear to have been remarkably brave (I never thought I'd be saying that!) ... especially with the present Government's present attitude towards the BBC.
Publicly they'll praise its "commitment to bold subject matter" and privately use it as ammunition against the Charter.
[ 11. August 2015, 15:51: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I think I saw a picture somewhere of a makeshift chapel that the migrants have erected out of cardboard near Calais?
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lowlands_boy
Shipmate
# 12497
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Posted
There are also pictures of Sally Magnusson outside that - so the filming for SoP has already taken place. Just a question of whether any of it gets used.
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Catching a glimpse of that foul rag the Daily Wail in the rack outside my corner shop today, I see that it is, predictably, railing at the waste of licence-payers' money on broadcasting SoP from the 'lawless migrant ghetto'....
The right-wing gutter press makes me
Ian J.
It might do, but millions love it and it demonstrates how much casual racism there is in Britain. Look at the best selling papers: The Sun and the Daily Mail sell 3.5 million between them, the Daily Mirror just about a million then the Telegraph, Express, Star and the Times between 400,000 and half a million. All but the Mirror are right-of-centre, some more than others.
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Here you are ...
I like how they compare the refugee camp with the Israelite camps from Exodus. Remind me again how the Exodus worked out for the people who were already living in Canaan?
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Hail Gallaxhar
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Is working out.
Couldn't resist that.
But we are talking here of a very small number of very needy people exiled by actions in some cases exacerbated by our governments, not a whole nation on the move under a charismatic Bronze Age leader.
[ 13. August 2015, 15:00: Message edited by: Penny S ]
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
I wonder if there's any record anywhere of other Christian churches/groups meeting/worshipping in the soi-disant 'lawless migrant ghetto'?
BTW, Father Vicar and I are praying mightily that the so-called 'journalists' of the Daily Wail, Daily Distress, and other gutter rags, may swiftly be transported (by the Holy Spirit, of course) to the 'Jungle', in order to experience at first-hand the privations and fear suffered by these awful English-baby-eating, honest-English-women-raping, honest-English-job-stealing 'people not like us'.......
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
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Stephen
Shipmate
# 40
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Posted
Oh, I missed it.....did you have any good Coptic or Syrian chants?
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Best Wishes
Stephen
'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
Recording and just watching the interesting bits is always the way....
It was excellent. No real cultural worship shown, but a really positive and sensitive engagement with the migrants there.
Is this the sort of thing the BBC should be spending its money on? Absolutely, definitively and completely. This is precisely the sort of thing the BBC should be spending its money on. More of the same please.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
Given that the Holy Family were asylum seekers in Egypt, it seems a very appropriate place to seek encounter with Christ to me.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
[excuse the double post, but on reflection...]
This reminded me of the border Mass the US Catholic bishops had last year, at the US-Mexico border. If you let the carousel of images in this article spin long enough, you'll see Bishop Kicanas giving communion through the fence. You can't keep Jesus out! (Even though I'm pretty sure he was undocumented; I'm not sure if they issue visas for "body, blood, soul and divinity, under form of bread and wine")
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
I found myself thinking the contrast made the rest of the programme was embarrassingly bland.
It would have been better to have given the Christian denizens of the camp a bit more opportunity to say something more about where they had come from, why they had left home, how they got by in the camp and whether there were tensions between the different religious and ethnic groups there..
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Maybe so....but the point was made that any stories told by the migrants could not be verified......
A moving and poignant look at 'The Jungle' - I was so glad that Christians from both the UK and France are in there, doing what they can in the name of Christ.
The hymn 'There's a wideness in God's mercy' was very apt, no?
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
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Jante
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# 9163
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Posted
I think what struck me most was the singing of that hymn straight after the interview with those in the camp- a sensitivity I hadn't expected
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
I'm afraid I thought the whole programme had an air of being cobbled together without a lot of thought. For a start, I don't think when they first decided to go to Calais that the Beeb realised that singing in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church is not common and was unlikely to occur in the church in Calais.
I do know that the priest at the church was absolutely furious at the attention it brought them - they've got enough problems with muslim gangs in The Jungle without attracting any more attention.
Uncertain whether or not my reaction was unfair or off-beam I spoke to an Ethiopian friend, B: he said he and his friends didn't know whether to laugh or cry. What united them all was anger at Giles Fraser's column in The Guardian headlined Songs of Praise shows the Calais migrants do not sing alone: B used to meet GF regularly at St Paul's (he and his cousin I have become Anglicans) but says he was shocked at the grandstanding.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
It did feel a bit cobbled together and I would have preferred a show entirely focused on the Jungle - but it was a good show. I have no issue with featuring Matt Redman, though would be interested to know his thoughts on Calais.
I preferred seeing Matt Redman to seeing Giles Fraser acting like the saviour of the Jungle ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
I wonder how many of the 'cobbled together' comments have come from those who don't regularly watch.
They changed the format recently (within the last year or so) to try to be more inclusive. Where they used to typically just focus on one church per week, they have for some time used bits of worship from a variety of churches each week.
The intention was to have a more ecumenical feel, though they may have ended up finding a way to annoy just about everyone.
If it were a parody, this half-arsed hatchet job in the Daily Mail might be funny, but it seems to be an example of Poe's Law in action.
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
I wonder how many of the 'cobbled together' comments have come from those who don't regularly watch.
They changed the format recently (within the last year or so) to try to be more inclusive. Where they used to typically just focus on one church per week, they have for some time used bits of worship from a variety of churches each week.
The intention was to have a more ecumenical feel, though they may have ended up finding a way to annoy just about everyone.
If it were a parody, this half-arsed hatchet job in the Daily Mail might be funny, but it seems to be an example of Poe's Law in action.
Ah thanks Sipech, I hadn't watched in a long time.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
I think it is always "cobbled together" these days. It used to be a service at a church with other bits, these days it is much more a magazine program.
Giles Fraser was irritating - but I always find him irritating, and they do try to engage the traditional church with everything else.
I don't normally watch - I find the usual program totally unbearable. Against something that would normally have me switching over to anything else, it was quite good.
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Blog
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Lord may all my hard times be healing times
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