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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Burning your stuff for Jesus
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
The thing is, these same people will be happy with Christian imagery that is just as much an idol.
The problem is with idols, not with other cultures idols. An idol is something that focusses your worship away from God, which is about attitude, not object. One of the prophets (can't remember or find where) about people who take a piece of wood and burn half of it and worship the other half. That is idolatry. It is precisely NOT the object, but the attitude.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
The thing is, these same people will be happy with Christian imagery that is just as much an idol.
Folk aren't going to like me for saying this, but I think that's a very real danger with the flags and regimental colours that will be so prominent at Remembrance services tomorrow.
I had a French Mennonite friend who refused to stand when the Boys' and Girls' Brigade colours were brought into church at a Parade Service (not a Remembrance one). Knowing the fuss we had years later when we decided how best to "lay up" said colours after the BB company had closed, I think he had a point.
[ 07. November 2015, 09:25: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
The thing is, these same people will be happy with Christian imagery that is just as much an idol.
Folk aren't going to like me for saying this, but I think that's a very real danger with the flags and regimental colours that will be so prominent at Remembrance services tomorrow..
Well, I like you for saying that.
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
I think I've come across some pious young thing denounce African carvings on the same basis - as if they had been snatched from some blood-boltered altar instead of being, as is more likely, mass-produced tourist tat. I expect there is a spiritual buzz in being the one to point to a Masonic symbol or motif borrowed from pagan antiquity or modern literary reworking of folklore and go AHA!
There is a discussion to be had - probably beyond the scope of this thread - about the power of objects: whether one can say it is intrinsic, or in what we bring to our perception.
I figure, if it's bugging you and you think you shouldn't keep it, you should get rid of it. But other people might not have the same difficulty, and there is no need to try to push them into getting rid of something.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Oh entirely. But so often the zeal is fuelled by a shallow and inaccurate knowledge of what the objects represent or the cultures they come from.
It doesn't have to be cross-cultural of course: there are plenty of examples of inter-generational or majority vs subculture doom spotting ('These crazy beat combos young people listen to! Where will it all end?')
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Yep. My son came home yesterday telling me his math teacher had said that some song with the lyrics "watch me whip, watch me nae nae" was "inappropriate," which is usually code for "sexual." I did some googling and as far as I can make out it's basically "watch me do these dance moves," so I conclude that his worldview is far more exciting than the song writers'!
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
The song is obscene beause it is the most obnoxious earworm ever. Maybe that is what the teacher meant by inappropriate, ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
[ 08. November 2015, 01:08: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
You could try and dislodge it by listening to this which is the Victorian equivalent 'Jump my partner round' eh? What does that mean?
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
We had a teacher who banned from assembly the hymn "The Church's One Foundation" as inappropriate.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Let me guess-- all the kids went into convulsions at the line about "consummation."
[ 08. November 2015, 07:55: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
The thing is, these same people will be happy with Christian imagery that is just as much an idol.
I think that's a very real danger with the flags and regimental colours that will be so prominent at Remembrance services tomorrow.
Local Methodist church uses Veterans day and two other "patriotic" days of the year to "celebrate" veterans, asking them to wear their uniforms to church, and stand up and announce where they had been stationed. Several times a year. The hymns include at least one patriotic song. (I refuse to sing the war song "Star Spangled Banner" in church.)
The years I went there, I skipped the patriotic days because the pastor said no to my proposal to stand and state "I marched with anti-war groups to bring our troops home."
Why is fighting an undeclared war admirable but trying to stop a war is not?
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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beatmenace
Shipmate
# 16955
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
The thing is, these same people will be happy with Christian imagery that is just as much an idol.
I think that's a very real danger with the flags and regimental colours that will be so prominent at Remembrance services tomorrow.
Local Methodist church uses Veterans day and two other "patriotic" days of the year to "celebrate" veterans, asking them to wear their uniforms to church, and stand up and announce where they had been stationed. Several times a year. The hymns include at least one patriotic song. (I refuse to sing the war song "Star Spangled Banner" in church.)
The years I went there, I skipped the patriotic days because the pastor said no to my proposal to stand and state "I marched with anti-war groups to bring our troops home."
Why is fighting an undeclared war admirable but trying to stop a war is not?
Agree - If I hear 'I vow to Thee My Country' again in a Church context , I may not be responsible for my actions and I don't care who I upset.
Particularly the two lines in verse two about standing over the 'dying and the dead' with a big sword, with the clear suggestion that your country has slaughtered them. These lines belong in Game of Thrones not in anything associated with the Prince of Peace. Horrendous.
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"I'm the village idiot , aspiring to great things." (The Icicle Works)
Posts: 297 | From: Whitley Bay | Registered: Feb 2012
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by beatmenace:
If I hear 'I vow to Thee My Country' again in a Church context , I may not be responsible for my actions and I don't care who I upset.
It's an awful hymn.
(a) Our allegiance to God trumps allegiance to any country.
(b) Vowing to our country in a hymn is blasphemous.
(c) The tune was never designed to be sung to and - like "Land of Hope and Glory" - had too wide a range for singers' comfort.
If you come to our church I can guarantee that we won't be singing it.
[FWIW, here's what we did sing yesterday (the service as based around Psalm 46):
1. "Behold the mountain of the Lord" to "Glasgow".
2. An Iona setting of "Be still and know that I am God", interspersed with prayers.
3. "Thy Kingdom come, O God".
4. "Lest we forget" by Michael Forster to "Finlandia".
5. "God is our strength and refuge" by Richard Bewes to the "Dambusters' March".]
[ 09. November 2015, 12:33: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I think there's mileage in a separate thread for appropriate hymns for the occasion, if someone wants to start one: it would probably get a lot of takers.
Meanwhile, back to other incendiary declarations of faith...
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
Carrying on the tangent for a bit, I hold no candle for 'I vow to thee my country' but it really doesn't put country above God - it is 'all earthly things above'.
Now, back to our regular service.....
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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cosmic dance
Shipmate
# 14025
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Posted
I belonged to a Pentecostal church in my youth which disapproved of popular secular music as likely to inflame the passions of the young. Rebel me - I had quite a bit of it, until the day a very spiritual friend informed me that I should get rid of my vinyl collection. And I did and have cursed myself for it ever since. Why did I ever listen to the woman? In retrospect she was a total nutcase.
Recently for a big important birthday, my husband gave me a new turntable. Boy, do I miss my old vinyl.....
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"No method, no teacher, no guru..." Van Morrison.
Posts: 233 | From: godzone | Registered: Aug 2008
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