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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Frightened by driving incident
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Tulfes
Shipmate
# 18000
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Posted
Just seeking some thoughts.
I was the victim today of a road rage incident after I made a error of judgement causing a near miss. I was then subjected to a lengthy piece of aggressive and intimidating driving by a young male driver which has left me shaken and upset and depressed.
I have been driving on a full licence since 1977 and have no convictions and consider myself a cautious and reasonably safe driver. But today I made a misjudgement which was bad enough but have been left terrified by the criminally deliberate and disproportionate and irresponsible reaction.
Can anyone offer any wisdom on these situations? I'm quite frightened at the thought of driving again.
Posts: 175 | Registered: Feb 2014
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
I think the only advice I can give is that you are human, and you occasionally make mistakes. Yes, it is a problem that you make a mistake, but that is life, and you acknowledge your mistake and learn from it.
The other driver, OTOH, acted deliberately dangerously. That shows that he is stupid. Yes, he might be reacting out of fear from the near-miss, but that is no excuse to behave in a deliberately dangerous fashion.
So I think you have the moral high ground, but will need some time to recover from a disconcerting situation. If it helps, I had an incident some months ago where I did a stupid manoeuvre that caused people to take evasive action. No damage, but it made me realise that I had been stupid. I learnt from it, and I have changed my driving as a result.
I am not sure where you live, but in the UK, you might want to consider something like the IAM advanced driving test. It helps you to improve your driving, but more, to know how to deal with situations and know when it is your fault and when it is other people. I have been taking the course this year (but I failed the test, due to being far too stressed out about it).
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
{{{{{{{Tulfes}}}}}}}
I wonder if a short, in-car, driver education course would help you feel more secure? I'm NOT saying you're a bad driver. But you might get some skills for handling the situation where you made a mistake. The teacher might even have tips on road rage.
There are some online courses, too. If you poke around, there might be a free one.
Is there someone you can vent with?
Take very good care of yourself. You matter.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Tulfes
Shipmate
# 18000
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Posted
Thank you for very helpful and constructive replies.
Maybe I have been guilty of arrogance, or at least complacency, in believing that I am a "good" driver. It would be a very good idea for me to look into some driver training, as much for confidence building as skill updating.
Driver rage incidents are very frightening. A car is more dangerous than a knife and it is akin to having a knife repeatedly stabbed at you.
Unfortunately I am alone for Christmas and was girding my loins for getting through the festive period alone but happy. Now feel isolated and terrified.
Thank you to the kind people here.
Posts: 175 | Registered: Feb 2014
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tulfes:
I was the victim today of a road rage incident after I made a error of judgement causing a near miss. I was then subjected to a lengthy piece of aggressive and intimidating driving by a young male driver which has left me shaken and upset and depressed.
Sorry to hear about this, it certainly sounds quite frightening. I don't suppose you were able to get his registration number?
My driving instructor used to work with people who'd been involved in car accidents or similar and who had lost confidence. It might be worth asking around: I think the AA have done similar confidence-building sessions for drivers too.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
I'd also suggest--
Force yourself to drive a little every day. Staying away from something is a pretty good way to create a phobia. You can head that off by driving to the store, to the post office, whatever--just a couple miles or so.
As for the angry man, I'm sorry you went through that. We did too, long ago. If you can, find a way to spend time with decent people to counteract him and get the taste out of your mouth.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Tulfes
Shipmate
# 18000
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Posted
Thanks Ariel. I didn't get the reg number, unfortunately. Most of the incident he was behind, inches from my back bumper. I then came to a junction and I took the left turn, filter lane. The light was at red and he drew alongside me on offside lane (for going straight ahead), got out of car and started to shout at me and struck the drivers offside window. He used the f and c words and made reference to me being a fat (c) word and other derogatory comments about my appearance (I am overweight). The left filter light came on and I turned left. I assume he went straight on, when the green light for straight on came on. I proceeded left for about a quarter of a mile and then was stopped by another red light where I was again going left. I then became aware of him on my offside shouting at me from inside his car (I can't lipread but he wasn't wishing me the compliments of the season). I suspect that he had been intending to turn left at the first lights but took up the offside position so that he could be abreast me to shout his abuse. He must have gone straight ahead and then turned back to follow his original intended route, or perhaps even to follow me. The whole thing was surreal and (as I say) terrifying and I didn't get the number. The attitude displayed to women (verbal abuse of the most degrading kind, abuse about female appearance and appalling aggression and intimidation ofa person in a weaker position) suggests to me that he is (probably) a domestic abuser.
Posts: 175 | Registered: Feb 2014
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St. Gwladys
Shipmate
# 14504
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Posted
(((Tubbs)))
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"I say - are you a matelot?"
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From "New York Girls", Steeleye Span, Commoners Crown (Voiced by Peter Sellers)
Posts: 3333 | From: Rhymney Valley, South Wales | Registered: Jan 2009
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
What a terrible experience! It's easy to be a back-seat driver from the perspective of someone reading about your nightmare from the comfort of their computer desk, but I think I would have driven into an area where people were walking about, pulled over, gotten out of my car, and screamed, "Help! Call the police! This man wants to kill me!"
Once, many years ago, I also made an unwise maneuver with my car. The other driver actually followed me to my home! But when I threatened to call the police if he didn't get off my property immediately, he left.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
First off: it's not your fault. ok, you may have made a driving error, but you caused no death or injury. Your misfortune was to encounter someone who is angry and abusive beyond any sane measure. You are no more to blame for him than you are for a mugger or a burglar.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Tulfes
Shipmate
# 18000
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Posted
Firenze, of course, you are absolutely right. Somehow, though, this sort of experience robs one of rationality. I suppose it's the same reaction as a rape victim who blames him/herself for being the victim of sexual degradation. Ditto domestic abuse victims. Indeed I wonder if this is a reaction in any crime where the victim suffers degradation, which can occur in (eg) housebreaking or robbery or even vandalism (degrading words being scrawled on a victim's property).
Sorry, I didn't mean to equate this incident with the experience of rape, but maybe there is something to be learned.
Posts: 175 | Registered: Feb 2014
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Well, it is definitely a transgression of normal boundaries, which can feel like a violation.
I hope you get a good night's sleep and are able to feel better tomorrow and enjoy Christmas. If you can have the company of some nice people during the day that will help.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Beenster
Shipmate
# 242
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Posted
I really sympathise.
I have made a couple of errors of judgment. Just recently, whilst pulling out of a parking place in the dark and wet - I scraped another car. Public carpark. Nobody was around. I was really upset with myself, got out, could hardly see but wrote a note for the driver and left it on the windscreen. I could have, of course, driven of.
The lady called me a couple of days later, by which time I was quite confused and wondered why I hadn't heard. She laid into me like nothing else, I quaked and trembled and apologised. She said she was so busy she hadn't had time to inspect the damage. At this point i told her i could have driven off and she might not have noticed for quite a while. I'm still really upset about the whole escapade, not just the split second error of judgement but the way the whole thing made me feel.
Anyway, it might be worth reporting this to the police. Such incident is likely to be caught on a camera at some point in the UK. They might be able to reassure you and give you advice for the future.
Posts: 1885 | Registered: May 2001
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
That's a rotten thing to happen, Tulfes, but if you acknowledged your mistake and Angry Bloke couldn't accept that, it says a hell of a lot more about him than it does about you.
You are probably not a bad driver, just a badly-shook-up one at the moment. Lamb Chopped is right - like getting back on a horse after you've fallen off, the best cure for your fear will be to get back in the driving seat as soon as you can, even if it's only for a short distance each day - maybe round the block and back.
I hope you can put the experience behind you and begin to enjoy driving again.
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Tulfes--
I'm glad you didn't get out of the car to talk to him!
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
Really sorry to hear your experience. As a Driving Instructor, I get this sort of crap in a daily basis (don't these morons realise what the L plates are for and that learners are going to be less than perfect?) so over time I've learned to take it on the chin and ignore it.
As others have said, this wasn't your fault and the behaviour of the other driver was unacceptable. I can understand how this must have dented your confidence. To repair this, perhaps you could consider doing a short course, or even just a one-off assessment with one of the advanced driving organisations such as RoSPA or the Institute of Advanced Motorists.
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
We all make mistakes. On the occasions I've let my concentration lapse and done something stupid I'm usually so shaken up myself that I need to find the first place I can pull over to take a deep breath and be thankful my stupidity didn't result in anything more serious (the worst has been a scrape down the side of the car I was driving when I misjudged a single lane road, sharp right turn through a very narrow railway bridge) before getting back on the road. On one occasion I managed to cut someone up on a roundabout having somehow totally failed to see him there, and was followed into the petrol station just off the exit where the passenger of the other car came to have words - mainly because the driver was his son who had passed his test just a week or so beyond and was even more shaken up than me - I apologised profusely, congratulated his son on his reactions that meant he avoided hitting me, and we went on our way each of us wiser.
We will all experience other drivers who whether through recklessness or error of judgement do something stupid. Part of being a good driver is how to react to such instances. Road rage against the person who has just cut us up (or whatever) is the reaction of someone who is not (at that moment) being a good driver.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Nicodemia
WYSIWYG
# 4756
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Posted
So sorry to hear that {{{{Tulfes}}}}. Such a nasty experience. But please don't let it put you off driving. He was a moron, and a dangerous moron.
Just remember, we none of us are good drivers ALL of the time. Everyone makes mistakes. Sometimes others spot them, and unfortunately some react as Angry Stupid Young Man did.
Hopefully you will regain your confidence - all the suggestions others have made sound good, and That Stupid Man will get his come-uppance.
Have a good Christmas
Nicodemia
Posts: 4544 | From: not too far from Manchester, UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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Tulfes
Shipmate
# 18000
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beenster:
I really sympathise.
I have made a couple of errors of judgment. Just recently, whilst pulling out of a parking place in the dark and wet - I scraped another car. Public carpark. Nobody was around. I was really upset with myself, got out, could hardly see but wrote a note for the driver and left it on the windscreen. I could have, of course, driven of.
The lady called me a couple of days later, by which time I was quite confused and wondered why I hadn't heard. She laid into me like nothing else, I quaked and trembled and apologised. She said she was so busy she hadn't had time to inspect the damage. At this point i told her i could have driven off and she might not have noticed for quite a while. I'm still really upset about the whole escapade, not just the split second error of judgement but the way the whole thing made me feel.
Anyway, it might be worth reporting this to the police. Such incident is likely to be caught on a camera at some point in the UK. They might be able to reassure you and give you advice for the future.
Sorry to hear of your experience, Beenster.
Your words about being made to feel really rotten by the reaction of another to your split second eror of judgement sums things up exactly.
Yes, split second errors if judgement when driving can lead to fatal consequences. That's why we feel so bad if we are the transgressor. But surely we can all control ourselves not to lose the plot with another driver who has made a driving mistake, even if that mistake has caused fear and alarm, or worse. There is a huge difference between a momentary lapse in good driving and pursuing a deliberate course of reckless/ dangerous driving.
Posts: 175 | Registered: Feb 2014
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
We will all experience other drivers who whether through recklessness or error of judgement do something stupid. Part of being a good driver is how to react to such instances. Road rage against the person who has just cut us up (or whatever) is the reaction of someone who is not (at that moment) being a good driver.
What he said.
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
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Posted
Tulfes, the AA, who insure me, offer as part of the package a 2 hour driving lesson to help restore confidence in drivers who have had an accident, as I did when I wrote my car off a month ago. The suggestions you've been getting about maybe having a lesson or course of lessons are worth considering.
You had a horrible experience, and, has also been said, the feeling of degradation, of being bullied, helpless and confused, is almost the worst part of it. Forgive yourself for being human, and if you possibly can, seek company to talk this out. There isn't a driver in existence who hasn't made an error of judgement at times, and this young toe-rag made far more mistakes in his response than you in your single one.
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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.
Posts: 8040 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009
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Beenster
Shipmate
# 242
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tulfes:
quote:
Originally posted by Beenster:
I really sympathise.
I have made a couple of errors of judgment. Just recently, whilst pulling out of a parking place in the dark and wet - I scraped another car. Public carpark. Nobody was around. I was really upset with myself, got out, could hardly see but wrote a note for the driver and left it on the windscreen. I could have, of course, driven of.
The lady called me a couple of days later, by which time I was quite confused and wondered why I hadn't heard. She laid into me like nothing else, I quaked and trembled and apologised. She said she was so busy she hadn't had time to inspect the damage. At this point i told her i could have driven off and she might not have noticed for quite a while. I'm still really upset about the whole escapade, not just the split second error of judgement but the way the whole thing made me feel.
Anyway, it might be worth reporting this to the police. Such incident is likely to be caught on a camera at some point in the UK. They might be able to reassure you and give you advice for the future.
Sorry to hear of your experience, Beenster.
Your words about being made to feel really rotten by the reaction of another to your split second eror of judgement sums things up exactly.
Yes, split second errors if judgement when driving can lead to fatal consequences. That's why we feel so bad if we are the transgressor. But surely we can all control ourselves not to lose the plot with another driver who has made a driving mistake, even if that mistake has caused fear and alarm, or worse. There is a huge difference between a momentary lapse in good driving and pursuing a deliberate course of reckless/ dangerous driving.
Thanks ... I wanted you to know that you're not alone in this category. And I was ok as I was at home in comfort, had I been on the road, I think I would have been as wrecked as you which makes me think I want to go on one of the courses recommended as I easily lose my confidence.
The bottom line: nobody has a right to make you feel the way you did over an error. I hope the passage of time is giving you a bit of space and realisation that you did not deserve that and nor do you need to accept it. And in the quiet moments when you are reminded and feel shaken, say it out loud "I don't deserve this!"
You can also be proud of yourself that during such behaviour, you managed to keep your head and keep driving safely (shaken not stirred) and you are therefore much stronger than you may think. There are many people (myself included I fear) who would have gone to pieces.
Posts: 1885 | Registered: May 2001
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
I remember making a really bad error of judgement years ago, when I was on my way to drop off one of my kids to pre-school. It was a grey wet day and I did not see the dark grey car on the dark grey road at an intersection where I was supposed to give way. We narrowly missed a collision, but I made the other car brake sharply and off course he leaned on the horn. I waved apologetically and was really alarmed when the male driver followed me closely all the way to the pre-school.
By now I was more than alarmed, not just for me but for my child too. But it was a public drop off point and other parents were around, so I decided to take the bull by the horns and make an apology in person. As he got out of the car, I told him how sorry I was for my error. He looked at me and then said wryly "Yes, I though you couldn't have seen me." Then he went to his rear door to help his own pre-schooler out. End of story, and of course I was mightily relieved that I had not killed any of us, nor had to endure a public haranguing.
I believe that a majority of drivers are reasonable and able to get over incidents fairly quickly. But there are always going to be a percentage out there who are volatile for one reason or another. The sad thing is that the prick who stalked you probably thinks he was doing the world a favour by taking you to task. He sounds like an arrogant and angry man with little self-control and a lot of problems. Be glad you are you and not him!
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
I don't drive so I can't add anything helpful, just want to offer so sympathy to Tulfes. (hugs), it sounds like an awful thing to have happen to you.
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Not entirely clear what happened, but an apologetic attitude and a desire to ensure better driving may help. I have made errors and been yelled at and have stopped and spoken to the other driver. On the other side, I have told drivers about their errors after near misses of me on a bicycle and I have not been at all calm. Cyclists always lose with cars.
Sorry goes a long way; I don't think threats of bodily harm directly are likely to be realised if you are in a car. An emergency call is appropriate if so. Most people do not really want to hit you.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Not entirely clear what happened, but an apologetic attitude and a desire to ensure better driving may help.
Tulfes gives a full account of the other driver's actions here.. Let's say I wouldn't wind down a window to say 'Dreadfully sorry' in that situation.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Tulfes
Shipmate
# 18000
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Not entirely clear what happened, but an apologetic attitude and a desire to ensure better driving may help. I have made errors and been yelled at and have stopped and spoken to the other driver. On the other side, I have told drivers about their errors after near misses of me on a bicycle and I have not been at all calm. Cyclists always lose with cars.
Sorry goes a long way; I don't think threats of bodily harm directly are likely to be realised if you are in a car. An emergency call is appropriate if so. Most people do not really want to hit you.
That's exactly how I would have wanted to deal with the situation, apology, genuinely meant, and goodwill, comradeship of the road, Mutual respect and understanding that we all make driving errors from time to time and are modest enough to recognise this and try to do better. All the attitudes which we would want to display and have displaced towards us. All summed up in the word graciousness. However it is very difficult to disarm an aggressive situation when literally chased bumper to bumper in an aggressive and highly dangerous fashion (dangerous to me, the other driver and anyone else on the road or pavement/sidewalk at the time. Then the loss of verbal control and the violent action towards a piece of hardware which contained me resulted in the intimidation. Yes, I would have liked to have dealt with the thing reasonably, apologised for my error and indicated an intention to do better in future but I was denied the opportunity. Anyway the event has ruined my Christmas, not that I am a great Christmas celebrator anyway, but I have been greatly helped by all the kind, constructive and supportive comments on here. Thanks to everyone who has taken the trouble to post with support and constructive advice.
Posts: 175 | Registered: Feb 2014
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
I say this because I found it useful because it once gave me a name for something. It sounds so similar to what a solicitor said to me was "assault". I was not asking for legal advice but was upset and as course leader he asked what was up, so I told him. Note my incident also involved not physical contact.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
That must have been terrifying; it's no wonder you were badly shaken.
We were caught up in a road rage situation once; less scary than yours as there were two of us in the car, and witnesses in the car behind. The other driver pulled out of a side road in front of us, forcing us to brake sharply. We sounded our horn, and it all kicked off from there. He accelerated away, then braked sharply, forcing us (and the car behind us) to brake, he pulled away, then braked sharply to a halt, forcing us and the car behind to stop, then pulled away and braked a third time. He then got out of his car, came up to our driver's window and started shouting that we had no right to sound our horn. He got back in his car and drove off. We thought he might be drunk and phoned the police to report him.
The police phoned us back later to say that they had spoken to him and that although he was stone cold sober they were concerned by his irrational speech and thought he was having some sort of cognitive difficulty.
It's possible that the aggressive young man had some issue and your minor error of judgement was the trigger rather than the cause.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
By definition such disproportionate responses are not to do with the specific incident.
Some years ago, after buses were deregulated, I took one of the many small scale services then plying the streets. I could tell, directly I got on, that the driver was not in a good place - very aggressive towards other road users and clearly stressed. It was so obvious that we were headed for an accident that I was intending to leave the bus at the next opportunity. But, sure enough, we had our collision before I could (fortunately not serious).
Unfortunately, mysogynistic abuse is a ready conduit for many men. It is really not about you.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
... started shouting that we had no right to sound our horn ...
One of the few things that sticks in my mind about the Highway Code questions my driving instructor used to test me on at the end of my driving lessons was "what is the purpose of the horn?", to which the correct answer was to let another road user know that you are there.
It seems to me that your use of it was absolutely according to the book.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Tulfes, I'm adding my support to you - and suggesting that you might find a dashcam a suitable post-Yule present to yourself (someone has them for £29-ish in the sales). I bought mine to capture any passing meteorite (did see a fireball once while driving), or failing that any bad driving ahead of me. Since when, neither has occurred, and the only video of any interest has been a lad anointing the South Circular with bodily fluid!
It wouldn't help, of course, with someone who never gets in front of you.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Re dashcams:
IIRC, I saw a TV ad for one that can swivel, so you can point it to front OR back. There was a suggestion that parents could use it to monitor kids in the back seat. FWIW.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Tulfes
Shipmate
# 18000
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Posted
Thanks for the suggestion of a dashcam. Certainly worth thinking about. I am still feeling anxiety about driving but I'm getting back behind the wheel.
Posts: 175 | Registered: Feb 2014
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