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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Don't blink (Dr Who thread)
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
I enjoyed it. I'm not quite a fan of Doctor Who stories about how being a lonely immortal is a bad thing, but this was one of the better ones.
The ending of the action plot suffered from trying to do an alien invasion on a BBC budget.
Maisie Williams is good.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Really, really enjoyed that one. I watched both "parts" today, and I did enjoy the first one quite a lot as well, but the burden of the centuries really made the second half a winner for me.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I liked it too, but I shall have to watch again, having missed some of the dialogue at the end. The gallows humour was a good touch - something like Jack Shepherd, I imagine.
I do have a few niggles, though. The period couldn't seem to make its mind up - bits were Georgian, bits Commonwealth.
How did the wanted posters for the Doctor arrive?
And how did the lovely Maisie get into her beautifully laced dress with her hair so fancily coiffed without a maid? Can't see her male servant having those skills.
And Tyburn wasn't outside a castle. It was on open ground ouside the settlements - executions happened on the boundaries. The very name Tyburn means boundary stream - it defined an AS charter boundary, which can be walked.
And why on earth should an alien happening to come from a star in a grouping just happening to look a bit leonine from Earth happen to look leonine, and have a leonine name?
It seems a bit peculiar to criticise a work of fiction for having characteristics which made it seem unreal and dreamlike, but that is my impression. Then again, production staff who will put in cow horns just because they feel like it can't be trusted to try to suspend disbelief effectively. I'm left wondering if these inconsistencies are going to surface as a plot development or just vanish as trivial.
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Dafyd: I'm not quite a fan of Doctor Who stories about how being a lonely immortal is a bad thing, but this was one of the better ones.
I see what you mean. Parts of it were a bit predictable perhaps, but it was well executed.
quote:
Dafyd: The ending of the action plot suffered from trying to do an alien invasion on a BBC budget.
Hehe yes. If the aliens ever invade for real, I hope they'll invite the BBC to stage it for them ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
quote:
Penny S: The gallows humour was a good touch
I liked that too. The part at the end where he was having drinks together with his executioner was especially brilliant.
quote:
Penny S: And how did the lovely Maisie get into her beautifully laced dress with her hair so fancily coiffed without a maid?
100,000 hours of practice
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Nope, doesn't work. The hair, maybe, and could be a wig. Not the lacing. It's a two woman job. She'd have had her dressmaker make the bodice with front or side laces.
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I've woken from a complex and instantly forgotten dream with a nasty thought. quote:
It seems a bit peculiar to criticise a work of fiction for having characteristics which made it seem unreal and dreamlike, but that is my impression. Then again, production staff who will put in cow horns just because they feel like it can't be trusted to try to suspend disbelief effectively. I'm left wondering if these inconsistencies are going to surface as a plot development or just vanish as trivial.
The repetitive plots. The stacked up anachronisms. I don't trust anything since the beginning of last week, with the thing in Clara's suit being so like the thing at Christmas in its modus operandi. In fact, I don't trust anything since Christmas.
Missy came back too easily. Clara in a Dalek again? An isolated station again? Wasn't Father Christmas' power to undo time just too easy?
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
Do you think they're all still in a dream? Like the Father Christmas one?
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
It has occurred to me that it may not simply be like the Father Christmas one, it may be the same one.
I may end up renouncing the programme for cheating.
[ 26. October 2015, 08:47: Message edited by: Penny S ]
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Roseofsharon
Shipmate
# 9657
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Posted
Oh dear, I have enough trouble remembering the details of the last episode i saw, how on earth am I supposed to remember things from last Christmas?
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Talk about books -any books- on our rejuvenatedforum http://www.bookgrouponline.com/index.php?
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
If you really want to know...
I was going to post the URL to Wikipedia's synopsis of "Last Christmas", but it wasn't liked. However, it is there to be found, and had stuff I didn't remember! Like a tangerine in the final shot.
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
I thought The Woman who Lived was extremely well written, directed, and acted, but that it was curiously quiet and low-key. I think it was Peter Capaldi's Boom Town (which I liked at the time) - an interesting conversation piece, which for me didn't feel very like an episode of Doctor Who.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
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ArachnidinElmet
Shipmate
# 17346
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sparrow:
quote:
Originally posted by ArachnidinElmet:
In other news, I'm greatly enjoying the old Who repeats on the Horror Channel on my newly re-tuned freebox. We've had 2 stories per Doctor, the best IMO being The Silurians and Inferno, both Jon Pertwee. I hadn't seen much number three stuff but am pretty impressed.
Is that on Freeview? I don't think I have seen it on my Freeview box!
Yes, as Penny S says its Freeview 70. Hope you found it. Today we're just starting 'The Daemons' again with Jon Pertwee.
Back to Saturday's nu-Who. That was the most I've enjoyed an episode for ages. It felt solidly written rather than 'take a beginning and an end and make it up as you go along'. It'll be interesting to see how the story develops.
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'If a pleasant, straight-forward life is not possible then one must try to wriggle through by subtle manoeuvres' - Kafka
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I liked the narrative, and the deep thoughts, but as I said, I now think that every single niggle about Horrible Histories (which do get their stuff amazingly right), Tellytubby/Python face in the sky, rubbish alien invasion, electric eels, Blackadder, Carry on Dick, everything except the people falling like corn, was there deliberately for some reason.
I've been reading other places, but no-one else seems to be thinking like me! The most extreme suggestion is that Clara is already gone, and the Dr is visiting her timeline. which clearly doesn't apply to the last episode.
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
I've been reading other places, but no-one else seems to be thinking like me!
Okay, I admit that that is probably the strongest evidence that you have it right...
Personally, I am putting a lot of it down to "production office fatigue." When a production team has been with the show too long, a couple things happen. One is an increased tendency to send up the show. "Let's have a bit of fun with this one..." Whenever the production team gives in to wanting to have a "bit of fun" with a story, it is usually bad news. "Let's have stage Vikings! With an eyepatch! Ha! And let's have the day saved by electric eels that actually produce large quantities of electricity! It's funny! And let's get a popular guest star and put in huge allusions to the show that they are popular in so that everybody knows that we know who it is we cast!"
Another sign is the overuse of certain things. So the producer is thinking how to fill this season and thinks: "Daleks are popular, let's use Daleks. Missy was popular, let's use Missy. Osgood was popular, let's use Osgood (even if we did kill her off). Oh, and let's get a popular actor to be a guest star for a couple episodes! Secluded base stories are always fun and the Second Doctor thrived on them, so let's use secluded bases...there, that's this season sorted!" It is Doctor Who By The Numbers, and always a sign that the production team needs to be shaken up so that fresh ideas can come in.
All that said, I rather liked this most recent episode. While the theme of "why don't you take me with you" came up early in the episode, I confess I didn't think of the reason given until it was stated...and then it made sense to me. (I guess I can't say more than that without undue spoilers.)
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I'm not sure which I prefer. It was all a dream, or who cares about the audience anyway. I don't like either, really.
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
Once again, I disagree
I realise how difficult it must be to run an action based series for such a long time. I don't know of many examples that have pulled this off. And I can forgive them if they need to pull a couple of tricks sometimes to make it happen.
To me, the difficulty of doing this isn't just about the danger of "running out of stories". It has much more to do with the dynamics of the universe you have created. Isaac Asimov has been mentioned as an example on this thread. He created this brilliant Foundation Universe, that is often seen as one of the highlights of Science Fiction of all times. Well, famously, Asimov has run out of stories to tell in this universe. This isn't because there weren't any interesting places to be created in the Foundation Universe, it is just how the dynamics of fictional universes work.
To me, the way Dr Who has avoided running into this wall for a bloody 52 years is because it has always played fast and loose with the rules. And it consistently had the ability to be tongue in cheek about itself. It has mostly avoided jumping the shark by jumping over it five times every episode. I think that's brilliant, and to me, there is something very British about this.
So yes, their portrayal of Vikings isn't according to how they really were. So fucking what? If I want to learn about Vikings, I'll read a book or watch a fucking documentary. They put horns on the Vikings' helmets because horns are cool, and I can live with that. The "Dad's army" part of the Vikings story was a bit daft, but it was part of a beautiful two-parter that told the old story about the burden of immortality in a new, gripping way to me. So I'm a happy camper.
Yes, they brought Missy back because she was popular with viewers. I can forgive them for that. Viewing numbers have dropped over the past years, and I can imagine that they want to pull some tricks like this. I thought Michelle Gomez's portrayal of the character was much better than in last season, so I liked that. And as for how she survived the Cybermen thing: to me, her line "Dying is for ordinary people" was the absolutely perfect explanation for that. Exactly in line with her character, and not giving a further explanation was a brilliant example of the show not taking its own rules too seriously. The non-explanation of her survival was one of the highlights of this season so far.
I don't watch Game of Thrones, so I just judged Maisie Williams' appearance on the quality of her acting in these two episodes. And boy, did she deliver! It was absolutely amazing, the range she has as an actor completely carried the episode for me. And that for an eighteen year old, I'm very impressed. So I just watch that, and I don't care why the BBC put her on this show.
Were there low points this season? Yes, absolutely. The first episode was far too convoluted. Some of the villains were a bit silly (I'm looking at you, lion man). And I was a bit frustrated of the cop-out that the Doctor's ghost turned out to be.
Of course, the show won't have the 10M viewers anymore it had under Tennant and Piper. And some people will already have made their minds up, continuing to grumble about the appearance of celebrities, and how everything was better under Old Who. Let them. I can forgive the show pulling some tricks, and even some low points, because it continues to amaze me with some of the stories it's able to tell me after more than 52 years.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
And as for how she survived the Cybermen thing: to me, her line "Dying is for ordinary people" was the absolutely perfect explanation for that. Exactly in line with her character, and not giving a further explanation was a brilliant example of the show not taking its own rules too seriously. The non-explanation of her survival was one of the highlights of this season so far.
I hate to point this out, since you like the non-explanation, and I agree that she is entirely the sort of character who can get away with surviving certain death just because she did, but at the start of episode two she explained that she survived in exactly the same way she and Clara survived the episode one cliffhanger.
quote:
how everything was better under Old Who.
The Platonic ideal Doctor Who fan thinks Doctor Who jumped the shark when it turned out that the old man's mysterious police box was bigger on the inside and a time machine.
[ 27. October 2015, 10:20: Message edited by: Dafyd ]
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Dafyd: but at the start of episode two she explained that she survived in exactly the same way she and Clara survived the episode one cliffhanger.
Hmm, I must have blocked that out. I think I'd much prefer it if they had left it at "Dying is for ordinary people".
Maybe this writing team is coming to an end in a way, and at some point someone else will have to take over from Moffat. That's OK. Writers have come and gone in the 52 years of Dr Who.
But I assure you that the new head writer will use the 'base under siege' trope at some point. As well as other tropes. That's ok. There isn't really a way to avoid that. Of course, I'd love them to come up with brilliantly original episodes like Blink from time to time (and I hope they will), but I don't think you can expect that every week.
In the meantime, I'm looking forward to what the rest of this season will bring me. Some low points? Probably. Some plot holes or historical characters portrayed in the wrong way? I assume so. Some tropes that have already been done, either on Dr Who or elsewhere on TV? I'm counting on it. But I'm also hoping for some beautiful stories, as we've already seen so far. That's why I'm watching.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
I certainly agree that the show has demonstrated great flexibility to re-invent itself from time to time, and I would not want it to be too constrained by precedent. And you are right that certain tropes and archetypes are going to re-appear no matter what. There is nothing wrong with that. But there is also a danger in becoming too entrenched with just one man's vision of the show.
I went to The Font Of All Knowledge (a/k/a Wikipedia) and, since Steven Moffat took over producing the show in Series 5 (Matt Smith's first year), he has either written or co-written:
- 6 of 13 stories in Series 5
The 2010 Christmas Special
5 of 13 stories in Series 6
The 2011 Christmas special
4 of 13 stories in Series 7
The 2012 Christmas special
The Day of the Doctor anniversary story
The 2013 Christmas special (The Time of the Doctor)
7 of 12 stories in Series 8
The 2014 Christmas special
6 of 12 stories in the current Series 9, and
The forthcoming 2015 Christmas special
That is a LOT of one man's view of the Doctor. I really like Moffat's work and I think he did a great job with the 50th Anniversary. He deserves praise for that. But any one person only has so much ingenuity, inventiveness and newness. I expect there will still be flashes of brilliance to come this year, but I think there are also signs that he is running dry.
Obviously, nothing will change for the current series, but for the health of the show I think we need somebody with a fresh vision to take over.
In the meantime, I will keep watching because even bad Who tends to be more entertaining than the majority of stuff on television. And, for the record, I don't classify any of the episodes this year as "bad." This last episode is actually fairly high on my list of good episodes, despite the alien. I also am enjoying that Peter Capaldi finally seems to have a good grasp on what he wants to do with the character. He appears much more comfortable in the part than he was in the last series.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I don't think we disagree that much, actually. I haven't reached the level of "it's become so bad, Moffat's got to go", but I think neither have you. Yes, perhaps it would be refreshing to have a different head writer in the next season. Of course, it isn't my decision, it's the BBC's. And in that case, I still hope they keep Moffat on to write the odd episode.
quote:
Hedgehog: I also am enjoying that Peter Capaldi finally seems to have a good grasp on what he wants to do with the character. He appears much more comfortable in the part than he was in the last series.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. I never had a problem in the last season with the fact that Capaldi was less of a "cool popular dude" than Tennant and Smith were, each in their own way. I actually found it refreshing that he was a bit more cold and unapproachable.
But I did have some problems with things like his timing and delivery last season. Maybe this can be described as "not being comfortable in the role yet". This has improved very much over the last few episodes, and I'm definitely looking forward to seeing more of him.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
I went to The Font Of All Knowledge (a/k/a Wikipedia) and, since Steven Moffat took over producing the show in Series 5 (Matt Smith's first year), he has either written or co-written:
- 6 of 13 stories in Series 5
The 2010 Christmas Special
5 of 13 stories in Series 6
The 2011 Christmas special
4 of 13 stories in Series 7
The 2012 Christmas special
The Day of the Doctor anniversary story
The 2013 Christmas special (The Time of the Doctor)
7 of 12 stories in Series 8
The 2014 Christmas special
6 of 12 stories in the current Series 9, and
The forthcoming 2015 Christmas special
You mean episodes rather than stories I think, since you're counting double episode stories as two?
By comparison Russell Davies wrote 8 stories in his first season, 5 in the second, 5 in the third, 5 in the fourth, plus Christmas specials and two more in season 4b, and heavily rewrote a lot of other stories in those seasons. So Moffat's not done that much.
Perhaps we're getting to the point where Moffat is out of ideas (although I'd be more inclined to agree if there weren't substantial bodies of opinion on the internet who've been saying the same thing since the first few minutes of The Beast Below). But I'm not seeing any plausible successor just now.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
I enjoyed it. I'm not quite a fan of Doctor Who stories about how being a lonely immortal is a bad thing, but this was one of the better ones.
It's also one where it shows writers have no sense of scale (or comparison).
They quote an age of 1000 years and don't notice that that the immature girl* has already almost equaled (and Rory's at least half again).
They quote less than 100,000,000,000 seconds (3000yrs) as though he's seen stars from alpha to omega, when he's spend less than ten seconds per year on one star, or ten seconds per human, or one second per star (in one galaxy), or an hour per (current earth) species. Basically in every way on the creature/celestial scale he's a slightly unusually accomplished human, not a small god.
(Personally I quite like bouncing between the Cartmellish Dr and Veritesque Dr, but just because I like it, does it mean I can't laugh at it)
*portrayed as such in comparison to the Dr
Which isn't to say you cant get a bit bored, or 'oh another ant, and this ones got a longer thorax has it, how interesting'. The number of real firsts might well kicking in by then.
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Jay-Emm: They quote less than 100,000,000,000 seconds (3000yrs) as though he's seen stars from alpha to omega
And he spent a lot of his time on Trenzalore.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
But this week, very little in Brockwell Park or Dulwich, despite the on screen notices.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Penny S: But this week, very little in Brockwell Park or Dulwich, despite the on screen notices.
Well, a couple of minutes.
It took a while to get going, but the end was good.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
But this week, very little in Brockwell Park or Dulwich, despite the on screen notices.
They didn't spend any time in Brockwell Park.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
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Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458
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Posted
At last, an episode where I actually understood what was going on!
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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
Ah, they filmed it in another park? (I go to London sometimes but I don't know the city that well.)
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
To me, the way Dr Who has avoided running into this wall for a bloody 52 years ...
Point of fact: it hasn't been running for 52 years. It started in 1963 and ran out of steam by 1989, which gave it 26 years, during which time most people would probably agree it went downhill. It was then revived after a 16-year absence in 2005 with a new slant.
Cult TV it may be but from where I'm standing it's running out of steam, losing focus and going downhill again, and IMO it could do with another break.
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
Yes, I knew that.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
It was filmed in an area of Cardiff, I find, so why they decided to fix it in another place is a bit of a mystery. As is giving the school a name not found in the vicinity they claimed. Brockwell Park is a large open space on the south side of Brixton that was once a big house's grounds, not a pokey little playground. Its claim to fame is its Lido, recently restored. I don't know why they didn't just invent somewhere like Coalhill School. Or invent a part of South London - there are a number of convincing sounding possibilities. North Dulwich, East Norwood, South, East, North or West Brixton. It doesn't quite convince as the invented places of a dreamscape. Especially as Truth or Consequences exists. As for the "istan" place with church spires and a tunnel to London...down which one can walk.
I find it doesn't confirm my hypothesis of last week, nor destroy it. It may push it back a bit, depending on how long Clara has been in a pod, and how much we are meant to believe the versions of the scene on the flats landing.
And why choose the name Bonnie? There's Bonnie and Clyde, or the pirate Ann Bonney, or the Bonnie who lies over the ocean...
One thing I am sure about - Moffat doesn't do things for no reason, and he isn't careless.
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Penny S: I find it doesn't confirm my hypothesis of last week, nor destroy it. It may push it back a bit, depending on how long Clara has been in a pod, and how much we are meant to believe the versions of the scene on the flats landing.
Well, that scene pretty much establishes the moment she went into the pod. Unless you believe that Moffat has been messing with us there also.
I find your theory interesting, but at the moment I'm not putting much faith in it. I guess we'll know by Christmas.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
There are others now spotting a parallel with Amy as a clone.
And people who live in New Mexico have complained that, despite actually filming somewhere over there and not in Wales, actual south of the border Mexican flags were deployed, which would add to the mistakes, if such they are.
I forgot to mention that it was odd that the Zygon that Osgood and the Dr got hold of echoed "Clara" for some reason which no-one picked up on.
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Point of fact: it hasn't been running for 52 years. It started in 1963 and ran out of steam by 1989, which gave it 26 years, during which time most people would probably agree it went downhill. It was then revived after a 16-year absence in 2005 with a new slant.
I think classic Doctor Who went downhill, uphill, downhill again, uphill again, and then down, and then actually went out on a high note.
Last year was one of the most consistently brilliant runs of Doctor Who ever. This year is perhaps not quite that good, and not as good as season five. But seasons six and seven were a bit ropy until the 50th anniversary special. I think this series is still consistently better than the first four (five) years of the new series. If you compare what we've had so far with Tennant's second season, with Martha, I can't see any reason to think there's been a decline.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
Wel, I thought The Zygon Invasion was absolutely superb. I was hooked from the first scene, nicely bamboozled by all the who's-who stuff, pleasantly surprised at one or two bits I thought would be scary for the kids, and impressed that they tried to do a political subtext, like the classic series did from time to time.
Also, did anyone notice that the guest cast were almost all women? I actually didn't notice while I was watching it, but some people have been making a bit of a thing about it online today.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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quote:
Adeodatus: I was hooked from the first scene
To be honest, I wasn't. All the running around in New Mexico and Turmezistan didn't do much for me. Yeah, of course some people will turn out to be Zygons. But there wasn't a lot of suspense in this for me. I liked the political subtext (although it was a bit in-your-face at times). The ending made up for a lot though.
quote:
Adeodatus: Also, did anyone notice that the guest cast were almost all women?
I did
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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I like the way the double episodes give more time so the pace of the episides does not have to be too frenetic. Matt Smith was really good at that but a different Doctor needs different pacing.
2 45 to 50 minute episodes per story, and we are back to the story length of the classic series (3 to 5 25 minute episodes.)
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Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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I've seen a complaint about the women, and blaming the military inadequacies on them.
Last week there were complaints about the non-white faces in the Tyburn crowd.
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
I've seen a complaint about the women, and blaming the military inadequacies on them.
Oh, for crying out loud. That is so stupid. The number of Classic Who stories where the predominantly male UNIT was actually competent could be counted on the fingers of one hand.
To be honest, I am with Adeodatus. I did not even notice when watching that the guest cast was almost all female.
I liked the spin on Osgood and her "sister," including her refusal to state whether she is the original human Osgood or her Zygon counterpart. I said back at the time of "The Day of the Doctor" that, of all the UNIT personnel, I thought Osgood really understood the Doctor's approach to problems. She is the peace--refusing to acknowledge that there is a difference between her and her sister.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
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Adeodatus
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# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
I've seen a complaint about the women, and blaming the military inadequacies on them.
At least Rebecca Front's Colonel Walsh could shoot straight enough to hit a church door at ten paces, which is more than you can say for most of the UNIT boys down the years.
And yes, Rosa Winkel, that was "Amazing Grace". I think Capaldi looks very much at home with a guitar slung round his neck. But there's a limit to what my delicate little ears can take.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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I found Amazing Grace a bit of an odd choice too.
quote:
Hedgehog: I liked the spin on Osgood and her "sister," including her refusal to state whether she is the original human Osgood or her Zygon counterpart. I said back at the time of "The Day of the Doctor" that, of all the UNIT personnel, I thought Osgood really understood the Doctor's approach to problems. She is the peace--refusing to acknowledge that there is a difference between her and her sister.
I liked this too.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
I found Amazing Grace a bit of an odd choice too.
It might be a Scottish thing. (Warning: extreme bagpipe content.) Believe it or not, this was actually a No.1 hit in the UK in the 70s (or was it the 80s...?).
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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I see what you did there!
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Last week there were complaints about the non-white faces in the Tyburn crowd.
The week before that there were electric eels (from the Amazon) with Vikings. I think the anachronisms are deliberate and all will be explained through the medium of technobabble in the final episodes.
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Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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NuWho has always anachronistically included non-white people in epochs where you wouldn't expect them. They gave a non-explanation for that in the episode where Martha met Shakespeare.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Seriously, I don't understand why you get so hung up about anachronisms. Dr Who has been full of them, from the beginning. Some deliberate, some by accident. It's a tv show, not a history dissertation. Heck, the very first season had Marco Polo going to Peking.
There have been myriads of anachronisms in NuWho already. The Statue of Liberty had a golden torch in 1930. Cleopatra died in the first century AD. The Globe had 14 sides. The Big Ben was lit during the blitz. Commoners wore purple in Pompeii.
These things happen when you make a TV show.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Cleopatra died in the first century AD.
I think that's actually pointed out by one of the Romans in that episode.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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quote:
Dafyd: I think that's actually pointed out by one of the Romans in that episode.
I need to watch the episode again, but the way I remember it, he spoke about her was as if she'd just died, while in fact she'd been dead for 100 years already.
But my point is: shows like this will always have inaccuracies. Discovering them is part of the fun.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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