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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Don't blink (Dr Who thread)
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
I think I am with you, LeRoc. I am not seeing any grand plan going on this season, apart from the hybrid thing. Hybrid comments seem forced onto the scripts rather like, years ago, they went out of their way to make sure "Bad Wolf" showed up frequently.
And there have been a few ironic comments about Clara never leaving, which is never a good sign for a character sticking around. You knew Donna was on her way out the moment she started saying "I'm never leaving."
I am not convinced that the multiple bases under siege means anything, other than that you can save a bundle on hiring extras. Although they also save money on extras in the Truth Or Consequences, NM scenes--apparently nobody else lives there apart from the Zygon sheriff (or whatever).
I am a bit surprised that we have heard nothing further about the Confession Dial after all the fuss they made about it back in episode one.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Hedgehog: I am a bit surprised that we have heard nothing further about the Confession Dial after all the fuss they made about it back in episode one.
I'd almost forgotten about it! And I was sure it would show up again. I was looking forward to that.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
It looks as though what was being kept in that case was a Vortex Manipulator, and I think it was used in "The Day of the Doctor".
Vortex Manipulator
Why the Mire helmet is accorded the same level of security isn't clear to me. Though it may well be used later on in the series.
And Clara first falls into a dream state in the episode in which Danny was killed, when she thought she was blackmailing the Doctor by throwing keys into a volcano, showing the character developed by the Zygon, and being forgiven by the Doctor.
If we're going back that far, I would be very surprised.
[ 11. November 2015, 17:24: Message edited by: Penny S ]
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
quote:
It has been established beyond doubt that the rules of time travel are whatever they need to be for the plot of the current episode.
Very true. That could almost be a quote from Austen: "It is a truth universally acknowledged that...."
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Well, that wasn't too impressive. Plus Clara in a box. Her optics affected like Amy with the Angels. And "It doesn't make sense."
Next week appears to use the Diagon Alley set. I didn't predict that - though referenced the idea.
[ 14. November 2015, 20:02: Message edited by: Penny S ]
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Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
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Posted
About as scary as a mouse fart. I turned off half way through. Far too chaotic camera work which while obviously intended, detached me from the action. Nothing in the characters to make me care if they lived or died. Utter rubbish.
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I've been scouting round elsewhere, and spotted a view of the scenery in Heaven Sent - like somewhere he'd never been before, apparently. Or, alternatively, Arizona. (Or similar. Australia, maybe. Not, I think, Mars.) And come to think of it, Skaro looked a bit red desertish. Did it all in one lot to cut expenses.
Today's was dire.
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Found this.
quote:
Rachel Talalay, director of the final two episodes, told DWM: “[Steven Moffat has] layered in all these things from earlier in the series, which you never even thought were important. You have no clue what the series arc is, or how Clara leaves, until … well, until you do! It makes this finale so exciting – all these mysteries, numerous questions, some questions you hadn’t even realised were questions! It’s mind-blowing how well Steven has constructed this. At the end of this series, you’ll want to go back and watch it all again, ‘Now I see!’”
I spotted the twists in "The sixth sense" and in "Beautiful Mind". It would be nice to have spotted these things that are not spottable.
Others are starting to suggest what I have suggested.
Rassmussen is trying, like Davros, to perfect a race. And his box's hoses reach for Clara like snakes, like Colony Sarf's snakes reach for the Dr in the guise of hoses.
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
I found last night's gripping, although the monster of the week was beyond stupid and the twist was easy to see.
So why? I do like the occasional 'found footage' thing - I like the way that you see less than the characters see, rather than more - so perhaps it was that.
M.
Edited to add: re the previous post, Clara is held inside things a lot, too, like the first time we met her as a Dalek.
[ 15. November 2015, 05:55: Message edited by: M. ]
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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Athrawes
Ship's parrot
# 9594
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Posted
Well, that was different. I find I don't like the recent Mark Gattis offerings. He tries too hard to make it horror, and doesn't quite carry it off.
I didn't mind the camera movements as a vehicle, but it would have been interesting to have had Choppra being the one to survive. The monsters didn't do much for me.
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Explaining why is going to need a moment, since along the way we must take in the Ancient Greeks, the study of birds, witchcraft, 19thC Vaudeville and the history of baseball. Michael Quinion.
Posts: 2966 | From: somewhere with a book shop | Registered: Jun 2005
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
I thought that was pretty good. I liked the "Found Footage" style (once in a while - not regularly). I liked the challenge to the idea that sleep is a waste of time.
And I am not sure that we have heard the last of this. I am not sure that we are completely out of this yet.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Athrawes:
I find I don't like the recent Mark Gattis offerings. He tries too hard to make it horror, and doesn't quite carry it off.
I agree that I have not liked his recent offerings, but in this most recent one I'd say that it is not that he was trying too hard, but that he wasn't trying hard enough. He had a fairly simplistic concept for a story twist and then did some potboiling writing to fill it out. I got no sense that he really thought out the story. As the Doctor kept shouting, it made no sense. Even after the ending, it makes no sense.
Okay, okay. It is Doctor Who. I am used to the occasional story making no sense. No big deal.
But, as Schroedinger's cat observes, maybe we have not heard the last of this. After all, everything else this season has been done in two parts, so maybe next week's offering will provide a better wrap up on this one. Maybe.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
A monster made of sleep? What next, the Earwax Monster?
Or the Bogey Man? ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
Oh, Gill H, that made me ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Not being the sort of person who watches things frame by frame to analyse what might happen next, I have missed a couple of things. (Probably far more, of course.) These two were done by someone who does that sort of thing.
In the episode in which Ashildr turns up on a photo from outside the school, she is dressed as Clara's mother from some episode in the far past.
In this episode, in a list of stuff projected at the beginning, Clara's name appears. Rather like, and this is me, the Dr put it in a list of victims in the lake one.
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Rev per Minute
Shipmate
# 69
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Rassmussen is trying, like Davros, to perfect a race. And his box's hoses reach for Clara like snakes, like Colony Sarf's snakes reach for the Dr in the guise of hoses.
Rasmussen was dressed in the classic black uniform associated with the Nazis and the Kaled Scientific Corps - he looked like a new version of Snyder (sp?) from 'Genesis of the Daleks'. Whoever mentioned the Angels and Amy reminds me that the grit in Amy's eyes became Angel-dust. Perhaps Rasmussen is creating the Angels, who develop their time-manipulating abilities through a trade-off with the Doctor?
And what is the Great Catastrophe that had hit Earth in the 38th century? Is the Doctor responsible for that catastrophe, and what is the role of the sand monsters in that (assuming a timey-wimey solution)?
All the question marks suggest that I was a good deal more confused after that episode that in any of the other 'Part Ones' in this series. Too many corridors as in old Who (somewhere in the third part of six, I think) and no real reason for anything. Why was humanity based on Triton? Why would anyone under 50 even know what a dustman was?
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"Allons-y!" "Geronimo!" "Oh, for God's sake!" The Day of the Doctor
At the end of the day, we face our Maker alongside Jesus. RIP ken
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
That's interesting, as some other people have been comparing his uniform with those from Babylon 5, and finding references to that and Star Trek all through this series.
I have discovered the Tardis Data Core. Apparently, in the comics, there have been sand monsters before. Real desert sand, though.
I refuse to acknowledge as canon anything outside TV, including Sarah Jane. Life is too short.
However, Clara's mother died in unexplained circumstances, and her name was Eleanor Alison Ravenwood, which is vaguely interesting.
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
However, Clara's mother died in unexplained circumstances, and her name was Eleanor Alison Ravenwood, which is vaguely interesting.
So her initials were E.A.R.? My God, Gill H. was right! It is going to be the Earwax Monster!!
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Didn't notice that! It was the Raven I thought vaguely interesting.
I suspect Moffat is so engrossed in pleasing the frame watchers who blow things up huge to read them that he has forgotten about what Pratchett called "narrativium", the element which makes stories work. And which, in my opinion, works best with the broad sweep of the story, not the little French knots of embroidery in the hearts of the flowers on the edge of the tapestry.
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
I was sat there thinking it was a rehash of Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS. The dust monsters picking off the rescue crew looked awfully like the burnt people that were picking off the salvage crew.
Far from a fine episode, but as others have mentioned, I think there are allusions here that will only become clear later on.
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
One thing I didn't like - only two parachutes.
Curiously, in defending the showing of the episode with the crashed plane, it was said that no-one died in the explosion by whoever was doing the defending. Not thought about it, I suppose.
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
One thing I didn't like - only two parachutes.
Curiously, in defending the showing of the episode with the crashed plane, it was said that no-one died in the explosion by whoever was doing the defending. Not thought about it, I suppose.
Depending on where you look, it is remarkable what utter rubbish you can find from commentators. I made the mistake of watching a YouTube video allegedly revealing 5 "Easter eggs" from that episode--and when it was done I was satisfied only that (a) the poster had no idea what the phrase "Easter egg" means and (b) the poster didn't pay particularly close attention to the episode (getting plots wrong, quotes wrong, incidents wrong...).
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
I've followed this thread with interest but my abiding feeling is that the present series is second-rate and I think they should drop the whole 'project' for another ten years or so.
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
At the risk of fulfilling all dafyd's judgements about me, I was never going to like this week's offering. Who or not, film or TV, I can't stand: - Dimly lit episodes where I can't be sure what's happening
- A Narrator telling us what is going on, rather then us seeing it for ourselves
- A Narrator telling us what characters are like ("He was the joker") instead of it being acted out. Lazy story telling.
Apart from that, I agree with the rest of you.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
One thing I didn't like - only two parachutes.
Curiously, in defending the showing of the episode with the crashed plane, it was said that no-one died in the explosion by whoever was doing the defending. Not thought about it, I suppose.
Depending on where you look, it is remarkable what utter rubbish you can find from commentators. I made the mistake of watching a YouTube video allegedly revealing 5 "Easter eggs" from that episode--and when it was done I was satisfied only that (a) the poster had no idea what the phrase "Easter egg" means and (b) the poster didn't pay particularly close attention to the episode (getting plots wrong, quotes wrong, incidents wrong...).
I couldn't be sure who had made the statement, but it was someone involved at the BBC end, not a commentator. Backpedalling madly, I suspect.
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
Just watched it, and as found footage style thing go this was far scarier than the Blair Witch Project.
So scarier than a very tame unscary film.
I think the idea of doing something different was good, but could have been done better. There is only room for one 'base under siege' episode per series, and we had hat in Under the Lake.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
I thought it had interesting if undeveloped ideas, some reasonable scares, and a few perfunctory sketches of other emotions.
As a base under siege it was preferable to the Under the Lake two-parter, if only because of the meta-critique of the base under siege genre, namely that even a malevolent pile of sentient eyegunk can write a decent base under siege.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
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ArachnidinElmet
Shipmate
# 17346
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Posted
I like the Alien films as much as the next person, but I could quite happily go years before I need to see another Doctor Who episode where the whole of the plot is 'named characters pursued down darkened corridor by shadowy monster'.
Posts: 1887 | From: the rhubarb triangle | Registered: Sep 2012
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I've finally been able to watch this. I do think that this is a two-parter like the others, and to me it depends on how this is resolved.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I've discovered a "Dr Who Forum" where some of the things I've spotted have been spotted, too. But also a theme about Tarot, all the way through, apparently. I am totally blank on that. Though there was an obvious nearly Hanged Man.
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
There must be dozens of Dr Who forums ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I just discovered that this isn't meant to be a two parter. But maybe we will see this resolved at the end of this series?
I have the feeling that they tried something different here: let's do a found footage episode with a twist in the end, but it didn't really work.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
More and more I am convinced that it was just a mis-fire.
Reportedly, it scored the lowest Audience Appreciation Index since "Love and Monsters" in 2006--another story I had completely forgotten about until I looked it up.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Here's the one with the ideas: The Doctor Who Forum
According to Mark Gatiss, he pitched this story for the last season, and had to add to it to fit into this one (after reducing it to one episode because of the found footage concept being added) Clara being more independent. I suspect he added more than that.
Meanwhile, I have woken with theory version 2. The hints about stories within stories suggests that this may not be someone's dreams, but someone's stories that the Dr and Clara are trapped in, made up from fragments of older stories and half remembered bits of other real world stuff. Hence the Mire helmet in the Black Archive. And the street next week being Diagon Alley. The obvious someone would be Ashildr, except that elements of the season are earlier than her, and her episode is full of half remembered stuff before she is put into the helmet. Less obvious would be that Ashildr is Missy. Or Clara in the Dalek.
Clara, in the first episode in which she was herself, and not a timeline echo, was partially absorbed into a computer, wasn't she? Thus gaining her computer skills when rescued. And, apparently (can't remember this), the Spoonhead who trapped her was disguised as the character Kate from the book Summer Falls, (which wasn't that good.)
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
This version would allow the next season to be a complete reboot.
A brief shot of the environment in Heaven Sent looks like the place where Missy received the dead in the last season. (Not the bit that looked like New Mexico, obviously.)
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Hedgehog: More and more I am convinced that it was just a mis-fire.
Yeah, I have the same feeling. I like that they're prepared to take risks, and I guess I can forgive them if one of them doesn't work out. But don't let it happen again this season
quote:
Penny S: Here's the one with the ideas: The Doctor Who Forum
They look like a pleasant bunch of people, and I'm sure it can be fun to look for patterns in this season (snakes! tarot!), and conjure theories based on those (Clara's already dead, they're caught up in a story …)
However, I'm still not convinced that there's more going on than the hybrid thing. I love to be proven wrong though, and I'd be the first to shake your hand if you turn out to be right in a month's time.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I have a nasty feeling that SM is reading all the web sites and sniggering as he plays with his models. (See the unofficial 50th episode made with Davidson et al.)
I was thinking this morning that the puzzles he sets are a bit like crossword puzzles - but that only works if it is solvable. I have no patience with the ones that depend too much on cricketing terms and 1930s university slang. (And that's the quick ones, not the cryptics.)
[ 18. November 2015, 15:50: Message edited by: Penny S ]
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
I was thinking this morning that the puzzles he sets are a bit like crossword puzzles - but that only works if it is solvable.
I don't really think so. Usually when Moffat sets a puzzle the answer is obvious, or at least one of the obvious answers. As soon as you saw someone come up with the idea that Missy was the Master it was obviously true. When the Doctor got shot, there were three or four easy solutions in play by the time we got to the end of the series.
Moffat's not really interested in puzzles. He throws some things out, because the fan forums need something to talk about, but he is actually really interested in the emotional payoff. The Beast Below is rotten considered as a puzzle, but marvellous if you think about it as the Doctor and Amy learning how to trust each other.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I do think that Moffat throws puzzles at us from time to time, but when he does he's rather obvious about it.
A clear example is when Amy turned out to be a Flesh creature. We knew that there was a mystery about her; that was rather in-your-face. The recurring question whether she was pregnant or not, the strange woman looking at her from time to time … We didn't know yet what the answer to the mystery was, but it was very obvious that there was a mystery.
I am not seeing Moffat posing this kind of mystery in this season, apart from the hybrid. What the people see as clues on this forum "Clara was pulled into the pod by snake-like chords, and in the first episode there was a villain with a snake-face!", they are much too far-fetched to be Moffat's style. If he wanted there to be a mystery about snakes, he would have made that obvious.
Of course it can be great fun to make an inventory of all things this season vaguely related to snakes. That's the kind of thing fans do, and I can see the fun in that. But I'm not convinced that these kind of things are mysteries Moffat put into this season.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Can anyone remember the details of Ashildr's origins? I sort of have a vague memory that she might have been adopted into the village and brought up since a baby by the man she treats as her father. Hence her feeling a bit out of it - not really at home among the girls, and not accepted among the boys though wanting to take part in what they did. I do remember that being said.
Now I thought, yes, I know about that. Normal for some. (Given a choice between "101 things a girl can do" and the same for boys, I'd go for the boys every time. Make your own coal gas in a syrup tin beats making barbola mirror frames hollow.)
But some might think it was to do with gender confusion. Like being a highwayman. Despite the babies.
This tangent comes courtesy of thinking round the Ashildr is the female Master again idea too much.
The snake thing wasn't so much Colony Sarf, as the snakes disguised as cables round Davros' chair seizing the Dr, while the cables behaving like snakes seized Clara.
It's a bit like music, where a theme repeats in a slightly different way through a piece. Like the eyes - and have you ever come across an Eye of Hades? Horus, yes. Hades, no.
[ 18. November 2015, 19:18: Message edited by: Penny S ]
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I don't think Ashildr is the Master and if she is, I'll be very disappointed. The whole point of The Girl who Died / The Woman who Lived is: what happens if you give immortality to a normal human being? This would be rather taken away if she turns out to be (semi-)immortal from the beginning.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
That is the weakness of that thought, I admit. But I've still got that nag about her origin.
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I don't think there was anything in The Girl who Died about Einarr ("Chuckles") not being her real father.
(Talking about 'gender confusion': kudos for casting Bethany Black as 474/Grunt.)
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I'm going to have to find a copy and re-watch it, aren't I? I usually delete things when watched because otherwise I run out of space. It was near the beginning of the episode, and didn't seem very significant. All I recall is a quick run through of abandoned baby stories in my mind, and its unlikeliness in the geographical context. And it was only a hint. Was it about the village having welcomed her?
I do not dream about Dr Who, so I couldn't have added anything that way. And I wasn't worrying at it back then, either. That is very recent. Chiefly because I now want to fast forward and get the whole lot, including Christmas, out of the way.
And that's it. Out of the way. I'm not so much a fan as I used to be, more of an anti-fan. At this point, in a book, if I had started feeling as I am now, I'd be reading the last page to see if a) I was right, and b) No-one I cared for was being bumped off; before taking it back to the library, or donating it to Oxfam if I wasn't satisfied with what the author had done. But I do want to know. No loose ends. The amount of mental rewriting that is hinted may be necessary is likely to cheese me off.
I like to finish a story with an appreciative sigh, that the end was the right one for the characters, and for the narrative - even if it were unexpected. Not the feeling that I'd been taken for a ride.
And if there is going to be an apotheosis of Clara to become some sort of wonderful entity on whom the whole universe depends, I shall not be pleased. Wesley Crusher, Cordelia, and I think there was another female one in another of the Star Treks are extremely irritating. The Dr himself gets a bit irritating when he is too much of a deus ex machina. But it is supposed to be about him, not the companions. Both Rose and Donna got a bit too apotheosised at times, but at least they got back to some semblance of normal (and a great pity it was for Donna.)
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Penny S: And if there is going to be an apotheosis of Clara to become some sort of wonderful entity on whom the whole universe depends, I shall not be pleased.
I'm afraid that this is a rather realistic possibility for the end of this season.
quote:
Penny S: Wesley Crusher, Cordelia, and I think there was another female one in another of the Star Treks are extremely irritating.
I tried to look for the Cordelia you were talking about but couldn't find her. I'm also interested in who the other female is.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
Personally, I am still banking on my theory that Clara is going to be in the spin-off series set at Coal Hill School. Possibly her and what's-his-name, P.E. (Seriously, I can't remember his name--I can only recall the Doctor always calling him P.E.) Of course, that means we have to get him back from the dead, but the last two series having Heaven and Hell in the titles gives me hopes.
I doubt Ashildr is the Master because, well, we have a dandy one right now and the last we saw she was going to hatch a wonderful scheme with the Daleks. You want to talk about dangling plot threads, there is one right out in the open.
And, of course, those first episodes were also the ones where the whole hybrid thing got started. What was it again? A legend of a hybrid of "two great warrior species" which Davros decided was the Daleks and Time Lords. But having Ashildr referred to by the Doctor as being a hybrid suggests the possibility that she is of two warrior species: humans and Time Lord.
Oh. Oh. Oh. Surely the Moff is not going to bring back that line from the TV Movie that the Doctor is "half human" and then make him the hybrid of legend?? And then have that be the reason he fled Gallifrey, which he disclosed in the Confession Dial? Oh, I will spit if that is it. That line is better left untouched and assumed to be just an unaccountable joke by the 8th Doctor.
Oh, LeRoc, Cordelia was on "Angel" the spin-off show from "Buffy the Vampire Slayer." Aha!! There is a theme of spin-offs throughout this!!!! ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Hedgehog: Oh, LeRoc, Cordelia was on "Angel" the spin-off show from "Buffy the Vampire Slayer."
Ah, I thought this was still about Star Trek.
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Hedgehog: Aha!! There is a theme of spin-offs throughout this!!!!
Star Trek: The Next Generation had a strong theme about malfunctioning holodecks. I think it is a comment on the futility of the narrative frameworks we construct around our own lives (I'm just fooling around a bit here, I do think that discerning themes in TV series can be interesting.)
(Psst the name is Danny Pink.)
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
(Psst the name is Danny Pink.)
Oh, right! I knew "Rosebud" was wrong!
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
Personally, I think Hybrids is just someone trying to tell the Doctor that he needs a more environmentally friendly Tardis.
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Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Erik
Shipmate
# 11406
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Posted
And of course there is still the whole Orson Pink thing left over from last series. It could be that they are hoping everyone has forgotten about him (I did until recently). I would have thought that if Clara was already pregnant (which some people were suggesting before this series got started) someone would have noticed by now.
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Posts: 96 | From: Leeds, UK | Registered: May 2006
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
My friend and I used to dread holodeck episodes. Malfunctioning or not.
I think the female I was thinking about was Neelix's beloved.
By way of comparison, to explain what I look for in a story, I have just been watching an old episode of the detective series "Dalziel and Pascoe", based, I don't know how closely, on work by Reginald Hill.
It was full of false leads, red herrings and so on. It had in it three stories about little girls, one who had disappeared 15 years before, unsolved, one who disappeared in the opening, and the younger detective's daughter, whose attack of and recovery from meningitis, and whose favourite book, were woven critically into the main story.
I couldn't work out what had been happening. It was so difficult to watch in some places I had to break up the two hours into several segments. Of the generation involved in the old case, only the mother of the lost girl was innocent of anything, and there was no happy resolution at the end, only that the bodies were finally found.
But the resolution was, none the less, satisfying, the correct one for the narrative, and I did not feel cheated that I had not been able to work it out, nor that everyone could not go off happily into the Pennine sunset.
The contrived echoes of the "real" story in the children's book and the surviving girl's imaginary friend worked like a motif in music or in a poem. Not like puzzle solving.
[ 19. November 2015, 12:11: Message edited by: Penny S ]
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