|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Don't blink (Dr Who thread)
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
Picking up on another couple of points above - Missy's last remark with the Daleks reminds me of Michael Caine's other famous quote from the Italian job. Not the door one, but the last words of the film. "Hang on Lads, I've got a great idea."
And pink isn't just a word for a soppy colour. It was, I have been told, originally a verb to do with cutting. Hence "pinking shears" for cutting fabric in a zigzag pattern that doesn't fray, and "pinks" for flowers with petals that look as if they have been cut. Also the remark of duellists with swords on drawing blood, that they have "pinked" their opponent. (And presumably, that irritating habit of the upper crust insisting that their bright red coats are pink. Like their white horses are grey.) The word has a messy background. I found, possibly interestingly, that the alternative name for pinks (dianthuses) of carnation, also refers to the colour being flesh like and was originally "incarnation" which seems right up Moffat's street.
Pink can also be used of the best of something - like the pink of condition. Like the flower of something.
It always seemed an odd choice of name. (Echoing Rose, as well?)
[ 19. November 2015, 12:25: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
quote:
Penny S: I think the female I was thinking about was Neelix's beloved.
I try to block Neelix out of my mind, but her name was Kes.
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
Penny S: I think the female I was thinking about was Neelix's beloved.
I try to block Neelix out of my mind, but her name was Kes.
I liked Neelix. And Kes.
--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
ArachnidinElmet
Shipmate
# 17346
|
Posted
Likely not a surprise to most on this thread, but I greatly enjoyed 'Time Warrior', first outing of Sarah Jane (also the Sontarans), including a turn by a youngish June Brown (more famous as Eastender's Dot Cotton).
--------------------
'If a pleasant, straight-forward life is not possible then one must try to wriggle through by subtle manoeuvres' - Kafka
Posts: 1887 | From: the rhubarb triangle | Registered: Sep 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
|
Posted
Agreed AE. There were problems with classic Who, of course, but I think the main characters worked well - in the early years especially there was more consistency. Don't like the Doctor and companion behaving in arbitrary ways because of plot demands.
--------------------
Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
I was in W H Smiths (newsagent and stationer, source of the monarch of the Queen's Navy in HMS Pinafore, which is totally irrelevant) perusing the magazine shelves for things I am interested in. Like why do they file British Archaeology out of sight, with the metal detecting and war gaming male hobbies instead of with the history.
Disappointingly, they do not, any more, stock "Astronomy" and "Sky and Telescope" in which I like articles on archaeoastronomy, not covered by the two British magazines they do stock.
Two shelves below the sparsely populated sciencey stuff (for which one has to be as tall as Jonah Lomo) at easy grab height was an array of Dr Who related magazines, six or seven of them. (So little science, so much Dr Who.) Picking up the one with a cover image of Clara as a diner waitress in that diner which is supposed to be in Arizona (but is actually in Cardiff) in the season finale, I had a glance through. It contains a lot of graphic novel stuff as well as articles, drawn by someone who can't, quite, get a likeness. This is closely related to the stuff in the ones which proclaim themselves to be comics. No use unless one has already read all the preceding stories.
From this I gain that Clara is apparently going to betray the Capaldi Dr, who is going to go off and get very, very old, and will need sorting out by the Tennant and Smith Drs. as well as his younger self. Hard to tell, though, because of the way the art work wanders over the pages, and the time line swoops about as well. There were other companions in the mix. The cover blurb suggests that Clara's emulating the Dr is part of the TV story line.
If it isn't on TV, I don't regard it as canon. And the business is clearly going to try and rake in as much money from the fans as possible. I did not spend the £5 on the thin amount of text, in which Gatiss and others congratulate themselves on the way season 9 is working out.
I did acquire one quite interesting nugget of information, though. The Diagon Alley space is called, by the Dr, a trap street, and it turns out that trap streets are real things. On paper. Cartographers will insert unreal streets on maps to trap plagiarists who intend to republish without attribution or paying Ordnance Survey for their work.
This may explain the two blinged up women a friend met wanting, at night, directions to an address in South London which he knew to be a grubby alley of a street backing on to the railway, between locked up industrial units. Got the address from the wrong map. My friend is still curious about this event, years later, and the subject will probably come up this weekend. (I'm sure the women would have been OK - the alley is just opposite the bus garage, in case of problems.)
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
The rumours I've read about this season's end confirm what you're saying here. You're also right about trap streets.
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
|
Posted
I live on a trap street, or rather on an "anti-trap" street i.e detail missed out deliberately. In the A-Z of Sheffield the road I live on looks as if it a through road. It is a cul-de-sac with a narrow piece of ground with bushes and a telephone connection box separating it from the next road down.
When I moved in some twenty years ago, criminals still relied on street maps for planning get a ways. The result was that every six months or so there would be a police chase with the criminals car ending in the bushes at the end of the street. We got fed up of this and installed a concrete bollard at the end of the road. This means the criminals stopped the car before driving into the bushes in an attempt to get to the next street. So there was less mess to clear up.
Jengie
--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Garasu
Shipmate
# 17152
|
Posted
Can't help feeling that this undermines the purpose of maps...
Surely there's a Kantian critique here somewhere?
(Isn't it also a significant plot device in John Green's Paper towns?
--------------------
"Could I believe in the doctrine without believing in the deity?". - Modesitt, L. E., Jr., 1943- Imager.
Posts: 889 | From: Surrey Heath (England) | Registered: Jun 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
|
Posted
[tangent]I think I ran into (metaphorically) a Garmin trap-street scenario a week or so back. My Garmin was happily advising me to turn left--despite the fact that there were not only prominent signs saying "No Left Turn" but also a sizeable concrete traffic island that physically prevented a left turn (unless you really didn't care about the bottom of your car).
It is a little annoying to have the Garmin state its usual snippy "recalculating" when, in fact, the fault was solely the Garmin's.[/tangent]
--------------------
"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
|
Posted
Please tell me Clara isn't really dead........
--------------------
Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
Whopping great big plot hole, right at the onset of the conspiracy. How on earth could be arranged that Riggsy, last known of in Bristol, could pass by Diagon Alley at a moment convenient for whoever has it in mind to kidnap the Dr, and how was it known that he could call on the Dr?
And Ashildr is stupid, having already been taken for a ride by one lunatic alien, to be suckered again. (Only not suckered, since they aren't Zygons.) And how have aliens found her over the years, too?
Since there appears to be manifestation of Clara in a diner in the season finale, she aten't ded. There must be avatars of her all over the place, anyway.
[ 21. November 2015, 20:09: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Please tell me Clara isn't really dead........
OK.
Clara isn't really dead. Happy?
--
After I disappointing episode (Though DW at its worst is still watchable) this was better. I guessed it was a set up for the final parts about 10 minutes in but this did not detract from the tension in the episode. This is up to the standard of the Zygon episodes, so I'm happy.
--------------------
Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
|
Posted
The threads of the story arc are returning. Clara, who was teaching the class about Jane Austen when the planes froze in the sky in episode one, mentioned having fun with Austen in this episode. The confession dial is also back.
I still can't work out what the arc is though.
--------------------
Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
|
Posted
It's episodes like that that make me glad I avoid spoilers. That was brilliant!
--------------------
"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Whopping great big plot hole, right at the onset of the conspiracy. How on earth could be arranged that Riggsy, last known of in Bristol, could pass by Diagon Alley at a moment convenient for whoever has it in mind to kidnap the Dr, and how was it known that he could call on the Dr?
He had a phone message at 6:00 (though what it was that made him just leave without a note ...).
That still leaves them to chose him as a victim, and to make sure he contacts the Dr.
Though if they knew he had Clara's details, I guess they can be fairly confident of things being predictable (and if not I'm sure there are ways to drop hints).
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
Whoa.
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
|
Posted
The BBC website seems to be in full obituary mode. But this is Dr Who so that doesn't prove anything.
--------------------
If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
|
Posted
Warning - spoilers.
OK, so why didn't Ashildr take the tattoo from Clara, which would have saved her? No idea what effect that would have had on her immortality, but she may have actually survived. Yes, it would have been a big sacrifice, but given that The Dr will probably exact revenge anyhow, it might not have been a bad choice.
--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
Hmm that's a good one. I was thinking about Clara giving the tattoo to the Doctor (but I can imagine her not wanting to do that), but giving it to Ashildr would make some sense. She feels guilty about Clara dying, and she isn't exactly thrilled about immortality.
Maybe there is something about "you can't cheat the raven" in here?
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
|
Posted
Part of me hopes Clara has died. Not because I didn't like her - I thought her and the Doctor's relationship was the best companion/Doctor relationship for a long time - but because it was so well done and genuinely moving. There is a nice contrast between a stupid miscalculation and its result - especially with regard to the 'impossible girl'. The ramifications could be significant.
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
To be honest, I've always had difficulties to connect to Clara as a companion, as compared to Rose or Amy. I don't know why.
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Whopping great big plot hole, right at the onset of the conspiracy. How on earth could be arranged that Riggsy, last known of in Bristol, could pass by Diagon Alley at a moment convenient for whoever has it in mind to kidnap the Dr, and how was it known that he could call on the Dr?
He had a phone message at 6:00 (though what it was that made him just leave without a note ...).
That still leaves them to chose him as a victim, and to make sure he contacts the Dr.
Though if they knew he had Clara's details, I guess they can be fairly confident of things being predictable (and if not I'm sure there are ways to drop hints).
Thank you - I had forgotten that. Shows how far my fandom actually goes, doesn't it? But it does underline that Ashildr knows too much. Like about the confession dial. They still have to know all about Riggsy, his move, his phone number, and that he has the Tardis number. (But they don't?) Gallifrey has been mentioned. Or, I suppose, someone with an advance delivery of the season box set, and the walls lined with all the past series, and glued to replays on Horror. (If they can break the fourth wall, so can I.)
Did anyone spot any eyes? (I suppose the Janus people could count.) Or snakes? (The black guy with glasses had a reptilian head.) Does the stasis thing count as a box? There was another gender thing, though, wasn't there? I smell red herrings.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
quote:
Penny S: But it does underline that Ashildr knows too much.
Perhaps. I guess a lot of it can be explained by the fact that she is following the Doctor rather closely, as has been established at the end of The Woman who Lived. Also, it is clear that she is in league with some alien force, possibly Missy, who may have told her a thing or two.
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jack o' the Green:
Part of me hopes Clara has died. Not because I didn't like her - I thought her and the Doctor's relationship was the best companion/Doctor relationship for a long time - but because it was so well done and genuinely moving. There is a nice contrast between a stupid miscalculation and its result - especially with regard to the 'impossible girl'. The ramifications could be significant.
I am kind of torn over this too. Like you say, it would cheapen the death scene to have her restored to life. On the other hand, I am also getting a little tired with the concept that every time a companion leaves there must be tragedy. Rose: trapped in an alternate universe. Donna: Mind-wiped. Amy & Rory: trapped in the past. Martha is the only nuWho companion who voluntarily chooses to leave--and even she did it amidst her family's suffering. It would actually be a nice change of pace to have a happy parting of the ways. I guess that is why I keep clinging to the hope that Danny Pink will be restored to life and Clara chooses to live life with him rather than the Doctor.
--------------------
"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
quote:
Hedgehog: I am also getting a little tired with the concept that every time a companion leaves there must be tragedy.
I get what you mean. I can see that they want the companions to leave on an emotional note, and the easiest way to do this is to make it tragic.
Having said that, most companions you mentioned didn't end up that bad. Rose was with her family and with her version of the Doctor. Amy and Rory led fulfilling lives. And at least, they made an effort to make the tragedy different each time.
I have the feeling we're going to see Clara again two episodes from now, but I'm not entirely sure of it.
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
|
Posted
When Adric died there was a bit of a stink about it. Up till then Companions just left, often of their own accord. I gather that many people didn't particularly like him but they didn't like the manner of his departure. That was the result of a misjudgement as well.
--------------------
If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
Hedgehog: I am also getting a little tired with the concept that every time a companion leaves there must be tragedy.
I get what you mean. I can see that they want the companions to leave on an emotional note, and the easiest way to do this is to make it tragic.
Having said that, most companions you mentioned didn't end up that bad. Rose was with her family and with her version of the Doctor. Amy and Rory led fulfilling lives. And at least, they made an effort to make the tragedy different each time.
I have the feeling we're going to see Clara again two episodes from now, but I'm not entirely sure of it.
Should you fancy a spoiler, Imdb has a cast list for "Hell Bent", which has only two names on it, neither of which is Michelle Gomez, and neither of which is someone we don't know. You have to come at it by searching for the whole series first, as there's another page with no cast on it at all. (Not even the very extensive backstage lot.)
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
[QUOTE]Should you fancy a spoiler, Imdb has a cast list for "Hell Bent", which has only two names on it, neither of which is Michelle Gomez, and neither of which is someone we don't know. You have to come at it by searching for the whole series first, as there's another page with no cast on it at all. (Not even the very extensive backstage lot.)
Imdb has updated the cast list. It is not the same now as when you posted.
--------------------
Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
This is a big spoiler, but from what I understand, the cast list for next week could turn out to be *very* interesting.
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
|
Posted
That is not really a spoiler, LeRoc. At least for those who read what Moff has leaked.
[I missed an obvious typo, Duh!]
[ 23. November 2015, 11:52: Message edited by: balaam ]
--------------------
Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
(Ok. I'm still unsure how careful I should be on this thread.)
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
Hmm.
I'd got behind again, so I've just watched 2 episodes in a row.
"Sleep No More" was odd, and initially interesting, but in the end it just seemed awkward. There was a sense of ideas just being thrown at you for the sake of it - which arguably FITS the big reveal, but doesn't make for a great viewing experience.
"Face the Raven" was... also odd, in a very different way. Intriguing. A bit strangely paced, and I felt as if there weren't enough ideas, but then come to think of it did say "To Be Continued" so judging it on its own is questionable.
The writing in the big scene was excellent, though. Very Clara. I haven't felt that Clara has been all that well used for much of this season (certainly compared to last season), but this did feel like it fit her character.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
Imdb: Very interesting - especially as the Trivia page still includes you-know-who, plus a Moffat piece.
I'm not sure how happy I am that Moffat implies that with Clara gone, the Dr has nothing left to care for. What about babies? For instance.
[ 23. November 2015, 12:27: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
quote:
Penny S: I'm not sure how happy I am that Moffat implies that with Clara gone, the Dr has nothing left to care for. What about babies? For instance.
Out of curiosity, did Moffat say that, or did you deduce this from the show?
quote:
orfeo: "Sleep No More" was odd, and initially interesting, but in the end it just seemed awkward.
I'm with you here. It seems to me that they had what looked like a good idea on paper, but it didn't work out really.
[ 23. November 2015, 12:29: Message edited by: LeRoc ]
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
Philip Sandifer's review of "Face the Raven" encapsulated perfectly a little nugget of what was so right about the big speech...
quote:
And it is a scene that revolves around who Clara is: a deeply flawed bossy control freak capable of acting with indescribable grace. She lied and manipulated her way to death, like she inevitably would eventually, just as the Doctor inevitably does every couple of seasons. “Why can’t I be like you,” she asks, and there is no good answer. Indeed, she is. She gets a death scene, just like he always does...
Full text here.
There's more in the same vein in that review and another one I read, that this is the culmination of one characteristic of Clara that has been emphasised for the last couple of years: her desire to be the Doctor. And here is the great moment of tragedy as she tries to solve things with the kind of crazy move that the Doctor is always pulling. And finds out that it doesn't work.
That, I think, is why it feels so fitting.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
orfeo: I thought that Philip Sandifer had stopped his blog, finishing with a massive article. I see he didn't, like. Had I misunderstood?
Yeah, it's a bit strange. I think it kind of moved sideways. If you try to follow links to the "old" site it doesn't work properly. And yet if you do the right kind of search it's all still there.
And very much continuing to generate new content. It's just not separated out into different topics the way it used to be, so the Doctor Who stuff is jumbled with lots of other things.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Philip Sandifer's review of "Face the Raven" encapsulated perfectly a little nugget of what was so right about the big speech...
quote:
And it is a scene that revolves around who Clara is: a deeply flawed bossy control freak capable of acting with indescribable grace. She lied and manipulated her way to death, like she inevitably would eventually, just as the Doctor inevitably does every couple of seasons. “Why can’t I be like you,” she asks, and there is no good answer. Indeed, she is. She gets a death scene, just like he always does...
Full text here.
There's more in the same vein in that review and another one I read, that this is the culmination of one characteristic of Clara that has been emphasised for the last couple of years: her desire to be the Doctor. And here is the great moment of tragedy as she tries to solve things with the kind of crazy move that the Doctor is always pulling. And finds out that it doesn't work.
That, I think, is why it feels so fitting.
But that desire, and her belief that it was possible (arrogance?!) was her undoing in the end. None of the other companions would have tried that as they knew they weren't the Doctor so the universe treated them differently. They might have tried it for other reasons though.
As Me shows, you can't be like the Doctor even if you share some of his abilities - like immortality. Your memory isn't long ehough for a start. If she'd remembered better, she'd have never agreed to scheme in the first place. She's have known it would end badly.
Tubbs
[ 23. November 2015, 13:14: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
--------------------
"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
quote:
orfeo: this is the culmination of one characteristic of Clara that has been emphasised for the last couple of years: her desire to be the Doctor. And here is the great moment of tragedy as she tries to solve things with the kind of crazy move that the Doctor is always pulling. And finds out that it doesn't work.
That, I think, is why it feels so fitting.
Yes, very good how they did this. I just looked back on my earlier posts on this thread, and here I wrote that there are two themes around Clara: she's becoming just like the Doctor, and she needs to face death. I didn't put those together and realise that this could mean that she'd get in over her head and therefore cause her own death ![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
Also, the title The Magician's Apprentice makes sense now. It is very good when a show is able to do that.
quote:
orfeo: Full text here.
A good review (I've read various). I especially agree with him about Maisie Williams. She's definitely a good actress (I don't watch GoT, I'm just judging what I see of her on Dr Who), but I have the feeling that they may be putting too much on her shoulders here.
I disagree with him on one point though: I don't think Sleep No More / Face the Raven is a two parter.
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
I disagree with him on one point though: I don't think Sleep No More / Face the Raven is a two parter.
No-one agrees with him at all on that, and if you look in the comments he suggests it's his little joke.
Either there's a "to be continued" or there isn't. And it seems that Sleep No More was a stand-alone (not even having normal intros and credits) so that we could have a 3-part finisher...
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
quote:
orfeo: No-one agrees with him at all on that, and if you look in the comments he suggests it's his little joke.
Ah, I hadn't read the comments.
quote:
orfeo: And it seems that Sleep No More was a stand-alone (not even having normal intros and credits) so that we could have a 3-part finisher...
That's what it looks like for me too.
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
(Ok. I'm still unsure how careful I should be on this thread.)
As nothing more than a reader of the thread (not a host or anything else), I think that anything that is a spoiler for future shows is probably best linked with a spoiler alert (i.e. not posted on the thread directly).
Out of season, pretty much anything is acceptable.
Anything that is not directly impinging on future shows, or is general, public knowledge, is probably OK.
--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
Penny S: I'm not sure how happy I am that Moffat implies that with Clara gone, the Dr has nothing left to care for. What about babies? For instance.
Out of curiosity, did Moffat say that, or did you deduce this from the show?
He was quoted on the Imdb trivia page on "Hell Bent."
[ 23. November 2015, 18:08: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
|
Posted
I should say, I loved the Logans Run reference. One of the brilliant insider jokes that it doesn't matter if you miss.
--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
|
Posted
Well, that wasn't bad. Liked the mystery street, liked the tats, liked return of not-Danny. However, I didn't find it deeply moving, not least because Clara's death was so drawn out. When the other chap faced the Raven, there was about a minute between the bird leaving the cage and his death. With Clara there were lots of long speeches, before she went out and bravely embraced the avian. (Mind you, it still wasn't as protracted and maudlin as Tennant's departure.) And why didn't the Doctor even try anything? To simply stand back and admit defeat is not in the character of any Doctor we've seen.
--------------------
Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Thread closed
Printer-friendly view
