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Source: (consider it) Thread: TICTH
passer

Indigo
# 13329

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I thought TICTH had been discussed several times before, generally as a result of the thread being closed. Perhaps I imagined it. I also have found the discussion useful - I don't recall mention of the origin before, for instance. Nevertheless, the staunch defence of the status quo serves as a reminder that change is not undertaken lightly, which is probably prudent in a decentralized hierarchical environment.

(cross-posted with orfeo)

[ 11. May 2015, 12:51: Message edited by: passer ]

Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
passer

Indigo
# 13329

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:

A couple of people have made observations that are relevant to suggesting that the ongoing presence of TICTH has benefits. With all respect, you haven't - you have just made your standard observations, which seem to be to the effect that you simply don't like rules of any kind and come across as aggrieved any time that Hostly action occurs.

I think that your use of the words "any time" is a tad harsh. That I occasionally raise queries or make observations ignores that I mostly don't, and that I trot along like your average happy punter. I've always been supportive of the way this place is run, but that doesn't mean that I post obsequious comments to the effect that the ptb are wonderful human beings who are worthy of beatification. And it doesn't mean that I have a closed-mind approach to the way things are run.
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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Regarding the "take it to Facebook" comments, it is not the same.
Facebook isn't here.
Where people pitch a bitch is sometimes important to them.
Facebook has a higher profile.
Not everyone uses Facebook. [Eek!]
Facebook can generate unwanted comment, but there is no one to moderate unless it is extreme.

That this site's moderators created TICTH is an indication that I am not alone in believing in its usefulness. And it is very easy to discern, what that use is. So it is a tad vexing to hear the just go somewhere else comments.

--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
That this site's moderators created TICTH is an indication that I am not alone in believing in its usefulness. And it is very easy to discern, what that use is. So it is a tad vexing to hear the just go somewhere else comments.

Is it very easy to discern what that use is?

And is that use best met by making TICTH a constant feature?

My hot water system has a pressure release valve. The instructions on the side of tank tell me that I should use the valve at least once every 6 months.

It doesn't follow that if I use the valve every morning that I'm doing something that is beneficial for my hot water system.

And I use that analogy because I do think TICTH functions like a pressure release valve. Heck, I think the whole of Hell functions as a kind of pressure release.

But I'm not terribly convinced that having a constant drip of little TICTH posts is, in overall terms, the best method of pressure release. Opinions may differ on this, but it seems to me that TICTH running all the time is actually contributing to Hell being rather boring. No-one has much to say. And even if a reduction in Hell calls is a good sign about Ship harmony, we've don't seem to have much ranting at the world is general. Are you all having significantly happier lives now? Think we've cleared all the morons out of public life?

It was suggested earlier in the thread that TICTH effectively helped keep Hell tidy. Do we really want it to be tidy? It's a question worth considering. Maybe I've just got to the stage where reading Hell every day has become tedious and I need a change, but I went away for a month (checked in once or twice while I was in Europe) and came back to a slightly extended "Difficult Relatives" thread, the continuing droning of the one about Clarkson/Top Gear, and precious little else.

--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
RooK

1 of 6
# 1852

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Indeed. TICTH was a fly paper thread in an era of continuous buzzing activity on the Ship. It was usually re-activated whenever we were down a Hellhost in order to reduce the number of threads to review.

Times have changed. My opinion of TICTH is mostly that it is a masturbatory waste of effort, and that we would all benefit from more people willing to actually discuss what bothers them.

Perhaps it is time to retire TICTH permanently, and think of a new experiment that better-serves our current needs. I have an idea, but ironically I'm not sure I have the bandwidth to pull it off. Does anyone else have ideas?

Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
That this site's moderators created TICTH is an indication that I am not alone in believing in its usefulness. And it is very easy to discern, what that use is. So it is a tad vexing to hear the just go somewhere else comments.

David wasn't acting as a host when he started the original TICTH thread, and I doubt very much that his intention was to create a feature that would live forever in Hell. It was just a good idea for a thread.

Honestly, you should all stop whining about the Hellhosts and place blame where it belongs -- on the posters who failed to observe the simple directive to refrain from commenting on others' posts on that thread. If you're really cheesed off about the closure of TICTH, call those people to Hell.

Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Eutychus and I were floating the idea of an official TICTH facebook page backstage, but since RooK is calling for ideas, I will float it here. ( I also offered to mod it.)

Euty also thought a live Twitter feed might work...and draw traffic to the board.
.

[ 11. May 2015, 16:14: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649

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I like the TICTH thread. I've only used it once or twice, but found it very therapeutic when I did. I always check it out when I visit the ship. It is extremely boring though when people reply and continue conversations, and so in this case I see it as a fair call to close it, and to be strict with the ruling. Perhaps it will be better respected when it returns. Please let it return.

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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10

Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Is it very easy to discern what that use is?

Yes. Easy enough that nearly every Hellhost manages to post it within a short time of a new TICTH thread.

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:

And is that use best met by making TICTH a constant feature?

For the users yes. For those who must police it? Apparently not.
I've mentioned I appreciate the tedium involved in being required to read every post. And, though I am not generally one to participate in the occasional "Hoorah, Hoorah, the Hosts" threads, I do very much appreciate the voluntary effort you lot put in.
So, does the boredom you must endure outweigh the perceived benefit? This is the basic equation. Not being one who must endure the boring bits, I might see the balance differently.
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
My opinion of TICTH is mostly that it is a masturbatory waste of effort, and that we would all benefit from more people willing to actually discuss what bothers them.

I disagree. Well obviously, but I see the value of a minor vent vs. a larger rant.
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:

Perhaps it is time to retire TICTH permanently, and think of a new experiment that better-serves our current needs. I have an idea, but ironically I'm not sure I have the bandwidth to pull it off. Does anyone else have ideas?

I would love to see something new in Hell. Share, please.
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:

Honestly, you should all stop whining about the Hellhosts and place blame where it belongs -- on the posters who failed to observe the simple directive to refrain from commenting on others' posts on that thread. If you're really cheesed off about the closure of TICTH, call those people to Hell.

I have many, many faults. Whinging isn't one of them.
I considered a Hell thread. But, for at least one of the abusers it felt like I would be booting a puppy down the stairs for peeing on the rug.

--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
You may now start pointing fingers at those who screwed up.

Apologies to one and all. I badly misjudged the mood of the moment. I promise never to knowingly ignore the rules again.
[Waterworks] [Hot and Hormonal]

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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog

Posts: 600 | From: Cloud Cuckoo Land | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by Thyme:
I promise never to knowingly ignore the rules again.
[Waterworks] [Hot and Hormonal]

[Killing me] Where's the unrest in that?

--------------------
Forward the New Republic

Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
jacobsen

seeker
# 14998

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DT, nothing pleases you. Nevertheless, I apologise for my share of the tangents. Can't promise to amend completely, but I will try [Waterworks]

--------------------
But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.

Posts: 8040 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009  |  IP: Logged
Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405

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Perhaps what's needed is a variation of the existing rule about not responding. Instead, for those who simply cannot resist the urge to respond to a particular post, the rule can be "Respond to posts by PM only."

This would serve two purposes: one, it lets people who feel they MUST respond to do so without clustering up the TICTH thread, and two, any TICTH poster who get a dozen responses to his/her post knows the post might have potential as a thread in its own right, and take the issue to Purg, Hell, or All Saints as appropriate to the topic.

Of course, that's all possible now; but sometimes we lack either imagination or energy to do a work-around.

--------------------
Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!

Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged
Curiosity killed ...

Ship's Mug
# 11770

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One thought about the suggestion to start a TICTH thread on Facebook: for those of us who have signed work agreements* restricting on our social media use, that's moving even more of the Ship onto Facebook. And I'm already excluded from what is happening there now, which to be honest is making the Ship feel as if most of what is happening is elsewhere.

Isn't Facebook a lot of why the Ship is quieter now - that social chit chat has moved there, instead of here?

* I had to sign an agreement about my use of social media for work, which was pretty restrictive. I don't do Facebook as I work with teenagers and I am not allowed to friend them, be found by them, be followed by them, which is actually much more restrictive than it sounds as I have an unusual real name, which makes finding me easy. Also I am not allowed to do anything that could cause my employer embarrassment on social media. I doubt very much that I am the only one with a work agreement like this.

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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat

Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
RooK

1 of 6
# 1852

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I disagree. Well obviously, but I see the value of a minor vent vs. a larger rant.

The value of a minor vent versus a larger rant is pretty obvious: It's exactly why Facebook and Twitter are massively successful.

What we have here, however, is a discussion board. Instead of a legacy-ruled thread for throwaway rants, perhaps we should try to enable those smaller rants to help generate discussion.

quote:
I would love to see something new in Hell. Share, please.
Back before I was a Hellhost¹, Wood invited me to run "RooK teaches Snark-Fu Masterclass" in Hell. Perhaps the term 'invite' is a bit too genteel - he started it as swipe at my annoying enthusiasm for insults. It was an amusing diversion for a while, and demonstrated how creative some of the Denizens could be. I was thinking of resurrecting something like this, except with rotating guest "instructors". Denizens could post their random annoyances, which could be critiqued or have suggested improvements. Essentially serving the same fundamental outlet as TICTH, except with a prod to making it a bit more Hellish than just a list.

A somewhat more edgy idea² would be to propose "Troll Or Not", to get venting that was either mostly true or mostly not and generating discussion about which category it actually belonged. Again, more discussion and creativity with the same basic fuel.

¹ Take a wild guess about how long ago that was.

² All ideas actually at the capricious whim of the Hellhosts. Lobby them, if you dare.

Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Ooh, the master class would be fun!

--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
jacobsen

seeker
# 14998

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Facebook IMO is just too public. You have to deliberately get onto the SoF site, but anyone who is already on FB can surf and find us. Is that paranoid of me?

--------------------
But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.

Posts: 8040 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
All ideas actually at the capricious whim of the Hellhosts. Lobby them, if you dare.

This remark has reminded me of something I thought earlier, but didn't post.

Really, those Shipmates who have chosen to start a thread labelled "TICTH" have positively invited the Hellhosts to treat it as something that the Hellhosts control. You've been giving it that label.

If you don't want traditional TICTH rules to apply to a thread, don't bloody call it TICTH. Give it some other exciting, inventive name.

You will of course run the risk of the Hellhosts going [Paranoid] , but unless your new creation is so pathetic it clearly doesn't deserve to live / it's so unHellish we can boot it to the Circus in 5 seconds flat, you'll have gained time while we figure out WTF to do about your innovation.

Whereas if you label it as TICTH, we know what to do with a TICTH and will apply the same rules to it as the TICTH threads that we create. The first rule being that it lives or dies on our whim.

--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Patdys
Iron Wannabe
RooK-Annoyer
# 9397

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It was a gift. A Christmas gift.
You ungrateful sod. [Big Grin]

Socks for you then this year.

--------------------
Marathon run. Next Dream. Australian this time.

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Spike

Mostly Harmless
# 36

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quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
One thought about the suggestion to start a TICTH thread on Facebook: for those of us who have signed work agreements* restricting on our social media use, that's moving even more of the Ship onto Facebook. And I'm already excluded from what is happening there now, which to be honest is making the Ship feel as if most of what is happening is elsewhere.

Isn't Facebook a lot of why the Ship is quieter now - that social chit chat has moved there, instead of here?

There's not much action on the Ship Facebook group either. The most active thread is the one where people say what their ship name is and even that one has been dormant for a while.

--------------------
"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing

Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by Patdys:
It was a gift. A Christmas gift.
You ungrateful sod. [Big Grin]

Socks for you then this year.

Socks have a great deal of usefulness!

--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
All ideas actually at the capricious whim of the Hellhosts. Lobby them, if you dare.

This remark has reminded me of something I thought earlier, but didn't post.

Really, those Shipmates who have chosen to start a thread labelled "TICTH" have positively invited the Hellhosts to treat it as something that the Hellhosts control. You've been giving it that label.

If you don't want traditional TICTH rules to apply to a thread, don't bloody call it TICTH. Give it some other exciting, inventive name.

You will of course run the risk of the Hellhosts going [Paranoid] , but unless your new creation is so pathetic it clearly doesn't deserve to live / it's so unHellish we can boot it to the Circus in 5 seconds flat, you'll have gained time while we figure out WTF to do about your innovation.

Whereas if you label it as TICTH, we know what to do with a TICTH and will apply the same rules to it as the TICTH threads that we create. The first rule being that it lives or dies on our whim.

This is interesting. A couple of the threads that made Limbo could be considered TICTH threads with a narrow focus " My job sucks like a Dyson" or " Cats!" The " Difficult Relatives" thread doesn't look like it is dying down any time soon. So, maybe the challenge is to turn your one-- off into something with universal appeal.

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894

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Or, picking up on that point, many Limboed Hellthreads could have easily been TICTH one-offs.

"TICTH spiritually shallow and overly sincere 'spiritual growth' groups."

"TICTH cat owners. Not everyone loves your bird-killing, garden-shitting fleabag. And no, putting the little bastard in the other room won't make my allergies magically go away."

"TICTH Christmas."

All of these could have been lame, short, forgettable TICTH posts. Instead, they were among the best of the very best. Not to belabor the point, but maybe having a long spell where we can have Real Hell™ rather than an easy, thoughtless copout might be a welcome change, especially for those who claim that Hell Ain't What It Used to Be. Why, if we're getting so many tangents, maybe it means (gasp!) that even TICTH blathering might make good fodder for an OP with just a little extra thought!

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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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I like Rook's suggestions, though snark and insults are not really my forte.
I shall consider how to best direct my meager talents in that regard.

No offence aimed at you, Ariston, but many of the TICTH closures had naught to do do with the health of Hell. Nor do I think every thread need be creative to be useful. However, I will belabour the point no more at this time.

Come, Sancho, let us retire to your insula and recoup. The giant is proving resistant to our lance at the moment.

--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
deano
princess
# 12063

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For what it's worth, my suggestion is to have a TICTH thread that is moderated quite strictly, but also a "TICTH - The Comments" thread, where people can comment on something in TICTH if they want.

Just my thoughts.

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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
jacobsen

seeker
# 14998

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A good idea IMHO.

[ 13. May 2015, 12:32: Message edited by: jacobsen ]

--------------------
But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.

Posts: 8040 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
For what it's worth, my suggestion is to have a TICTH thread that is moderated quite strictly, but also a "TICTH - The Comments" thread, where people can comment on something in TICTH if they want.

Just my thoughts.

My thought is that the cross-referencing would become agonising.

--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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I concur. You all fuck up UBB code at the best of times, and the hosts' patience would wear thin soon.

My suggestion would be simply: if you want to rage at something, craft a decent OP. The English language can be enormously expressive, and your target can be more effectively and satisfyingly skewered with exultant prose than some badly-written, all-too-brief tweet-fodder.

[ 13. May 2015, 15:22: Message edited by: Doc Tor ]

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Forward the New Republic

Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
St. Gwladys
Shipmate
# 14504

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quote:
Originally posted by Raptor Eye:
I like the TICTH thread. I've only used it once or twice, but found it very therapeutic when I did. I always check it out when I visit the ship. It is extremely boring though when people reply and continue conversations, and so in this case I see it as a fair call to close it, and to be strict with the ruling. Perhaps it will be better respected when it returns. Please let it return.

Hear, Hear! Please, please let us have it back. Is it possible to exclude the culprits from it so that the rest of us have somewhere to rant? Or is it possible to have a thread connected with TICTH where comments and answers can be posted?

--------------------
"I say - are you a matelot?"
"Careful what you say sir, we're on board ship here"
From "New York Girls", Steeleye Span, Commoners Crown (Voiced by Peter Sellers)

Posts: 3333 | From: Rhymney Valley, South Wales | Registered: Jan 2009  |  IP: Logged
Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by St. Gwladys:
Is it possible to exclude the culprits from it so that the rest of us have somewhere to rant?

No. Besides, you've got somewhere to rant. It's called Hell.

quote:
Or is it possible to have a thread connected with TICTH where comments and answers can be posted?
If a rant is worthy of comment then why not use it to start a new thread? If it's not, then why post it at all?

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Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405

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The problem, as I tried to suggest above, is that the consignor has no way of knowing in advance whether a rant is thread-worthy. While in high dudgeon, it's easy to suppose one's ire would be understood and shared by others, or (alternatively) equally easy to suppose that the Multiverse has selected oneself alone out of billions of possible *** avatar-labels *** (or whatever) to crap all over, and that therefore nobody at all would understand and share one's ire.

So others can simply PM their responses, if any, to the consignor, and when the consignor has accrued some critical mass of responses (though I've no idea what that might be), the consignor may then take it upon him/herself to open a thread on the topic. If the rant garners no responses, don't open a thread; the consignor has clearly been singled out by the Multiverse.

Simple, straightforward, doesn't drive the reg'lars off to Facebook, doesn't reduce us all to 140-character twarks, and places no additional burdens on the hosts.

[ 14. May 2015, 02:39: Message edited by: Porridge ]

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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!

Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
The problem, as I tried to suggest above, is that the consignor has no way of knowing in advance whether a rant is thread-worthy.

How exactly is this a problem, though? No-one has a guarantee of "thread-worthiness" in Purgatory or Heaven or Kerygmania. Some threads take off, some don't.

And sometimes I write a pearl of genius on Facebook and none of my so-called friends Like it.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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There has been at least one thread I've started in Purgatory that has sunk and eventually been deleted with no responses. So no one else thought something was interesting, it didn't break my heart and send me into a cycle of despair and suicidal thoughts. No responses to a thread isn't the end of the world.

If you don't have a sufficiently thick skin to be able to cope with being ignored you shouldn't be posting in Hell in the first place.

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
The problem, as I tried to suggest above, is that the consignor has no way of knowing in advance whether a rant is thread-worthy.

How exactly is this a problem, though? No-one has a guarantee of "thread-worthiness" in Purgatory or Heaven or Kerygmania. Some threads take off, some don't.

And sometimes I write a pearl of genius on Facebook and none of my so-called friends Like it.

Right. I was responding, however, to this:

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
If a rant is worthy of comment then why not use it to start a new thread? If it's not, then why post it at all?

We can only know if the rants we post are "worthy of comment" after somebody comments, and the TICTH thread forbids comment. To avoid annoying the hellhosts, I'm suggesting that those who feel they MUST comment do so by PM to the poster of the rant.

The ranter is then free to consider turning rant into thread when the rant has drawn several comments. If a rant draws no comments, then clearly it's best left as a one-off, with no thread forthcoming.

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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!

Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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Okay, so you're talking about when someone has the urge to comment. Not the urge to rant.

The response to this is that we have told people, again and again and again, to start a thread. In fact we do it almost every time that the comments on a topic in TICTH get up to 3 or 4.

Maybe 5% of these calls are actually heeded. One reason for this is that many of the comments in TICTH are, to put it bluntly, rather vacuous.

There is in fact absolutely nothing technical to stop people from providing you these vacuous comments by PM right now. The main reason people post such things in the TICTH thread is in the hope that other Shipmates will mentally go "oh! he/she said something ever so slightly amusing and witty! where's the Like button?"

[ 14. May 2015, 04:00: Message edited by: orfeo ]

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Okay, so you're talking about when someone has the urge to comment. Not the urge to rant.

The response to this is that we have told people, again and again and again, to start a thread. In fact we do it almost every time that the comments on a topic in TICTH get up to 3 or 4.

Maybe 5% of these calls are actually heeded. One reason for this is that many of the comments in TICTH are, to put it bluntly, rather vacuous.

Again, right. But it's also possible that the ranter, having posted on what s/he understands is a one-off-dedicated thread, is not checking back to see if anyone has commented. If s/he starts getting PMs about the post, though, s/he'll be on notice that others have responded to the rant.

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
There is in fact absolutely nothing technical to stop people from providing you these vacuous comments by PM right now. The main reason people post such things in the TICTH thread is in the hope that other Shipmates will mentally go "oh! he/she said something ever so slightly amusing and witty! where's the Like button?"

Yes, I noted earlier this is all entirely and easily possible now, though the fact that this is a discussion board provides an impetus to discuss rather than to PM. There's also the issue of what kinds of responses a rant draws, so the original ranter can consider whether the rant draws support and should become an AS thread, or draws like-minded ire and should maybe become a Hell thread, or provokes questions and discussion and should be tried out as a Purg thread.

The only reason this doesn't happen now, beside vacuousness, is that this is a discussion forum, and people are accustomed to commenting in public on the existing thread, rather than by PM. So instead of stating NO COMMENTS, simply directing TICTH posters to COMMENT ONLY BY PM TO POSTER, it puts the ball, er, squarely in the ranter's court (and not in the hellhosts') to determine what, if anything, to do with comments on a rant.

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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!

Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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At present there is no TICTH thread. Nothing stopping anyone who might have had something to post on TICTH starting a thread for their wee rant. People can then respond, or not, if they wish. The hosts might have drivel to read, but at least it's drivel without anyone disregarding plain and simple instructions from the hosts.

If there's ever another TICTH thread, there's nothing stopping someone about to post on it from thinking "this might get a response, so I'll start a new thread for it". There's also nothing to stop someone from copying a TICTH post in to the OP of a new thread inorder to respond, except that since the post was on TICTH rather than in a dedicated thread that it's implied that a response was not wanted. But, no one ever said respecting the wishes of others has a place in Hell.

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405

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All very true. I'm not claiming otherwise.

All I'm saying is that, since THIS IS A DISCUSSION FORUM, and shipmates are ACCUSTOMED TO DISCUSSING topics in a discussion forum, the primary reason posters ignore the simple instruction not to comment on TICTH posts is that it's the ONLY thread among a couple of hundred threads across a half-dozen boards where discussions / comments / responses are not only not encouraged but not allowed.

It's easy for anyone to forget momentarily where on this site one is. How many posters have inadvertently posted an attack in Purg, or launched an analysis or sympathetic commiseration in Hell? It happens regularly.

TICTH has, when running, always been a singular odd anomaly of a thread on this site: it's the only one where you're not permitted to respond.

Since it seems popular with Shipmates, and since it seems to get up Hellhosts' noses when people forget themselves and comment on posts, all I'm suggesting is a halfway measure which brings any future TICTH thread (if ever there is one) partway into alignment with the rest of these boards: allow discussion, but by PM only.

This may in turn prompt a poster who began by only wishing to vent a wee rant to turn it into a thread upon discovering the rant sparked some interest in others where none was originally expected.

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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!

Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged
Spike

Mostly Harmless
# 36

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I've just read through TICTH. There are several posts there that could easily have been threads in their own right. In fact the second post on the thread about banks is an example. There are also an awful lot of posts there that would have been quite at home in All Saints.

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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing

Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
If a rant is worthy of comment then why not use it to start a new thread? If it's not, then why post it at all?

We can only know if the rants we post are "worthy of comment" after somebody comments, and the TICTH thread forbids comment.
What I meant by that was "if you think a rant is worthy of comment...". Apologies for the ambiguity.

That said, you can also find out if the rants you post are "worthy of comment" by starting a new thread and seeing if anyone responds. If they do, brilliant. If they don't, it sinks to page 2 of the board and gets quietly euthanized. As Alan notes, there's no rule against starting a thread that no-one else finds interesting.

If it helps, think of it as using the whole Hell board as a kind of TICTH, except instead of clicking "Post Reply" you click "New Topic". That seems to me to be the direction in which the Hellhosts would like to see things move, and if it sees their board swamped with dozens of short threads that fizzle out after a day or so then that's nobody's problem but theirs.

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Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
That seems to me to be the direction in which the Hellhosts would like to see things move, and if it sees their board swamped with dozens of short threads that fizzle out after a day or so then that's nobody's problem but theirs.

We'll cope. Have at it.

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Forward the New Republic

Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
deano
princess
# 12063

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I'm not sure my idea of a TICTH Comments thread would need moderating beyond any normal modding duties, and as for keeping it organised... don't! Let individual posters work it out for themselves.

They will either get in with it, stop discussing it or put it in a thread in it's own right. Nobody other than interested posters need to worry about the organisation of the comments thread.

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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
I'm not sure my idea of a TICTH Comments thread would need moderating beyond any normal modding duties, and as for keeping it organised... don't! Let individual posters work it out for themselves.

They will either get in with it, stop discussing it or put it in a thread in it's own right. Nobody other than interested posters need to worry about the organisation of the comments thread.

If it is really such a stand-alone entity then does it actually have to be part of the Ship?

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Tubbs

Miss Congeniality
# 440

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quote:
Originally posted by St. Gwladys:
quote:
Originally posted by Raptor Eye:
I like the TICTH thread. I've only used it once or twice, but found it very therapeutic when I did. I always check it out when I visit the ship. It is extremely boring though when people reply and continue conversations, and so in this case I see it as a fair call to close it, and to be strict with the ruling. Perhaps it will be better respected when it returns. Please let it return.

Hear, Hear! Please, please let us have it back. Is it possible to exclude the culprits from it so that the rest of us have somewhere to rant? Or is it possible to have a thread connected with TICTH where comments and answers can be posted?
I'm completely confused, because to me, if it's worthly of comment then surely it deserves it's own thread?! [Ultra confused]

It seems we've got stuck in a groove where people think you either have to post the Best Hell OP ever or a single rant on TICH. Which seems a shame.

Tubbs

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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am

Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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I'm left wondering why there's such reluctance to start a new thread rather than post to a TICTH one.

One possibility is that people have come to see TICTH as a "safe" place to have a bit of a rant without anyone else challenging or attacking them for it. Which is so far from what Hell is supposed to be about that it would be a sound reason to nix the thread in and of itself...

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Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
passer

Indigo
# 13329

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
One possibility is that people have come to see TICTH as a "safe" place to have a bit of a rant without anyone else challenging or attacking them for it.

That is a very good point. I would add "ignoring" to "challenging or attacking".
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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bangs head softly on wall

Really? It must be cowardice? You cannot conceive of wishing to vent a frustration that is enough to be vexing, but simple enough that the expression of it is sufficient?

Yes, I know I said I was retiring from the field.

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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
You cannot conceive of wishing to vent a frustration that is enough to be vexing, but simple enough that the expression of it is sufficient?

I can conceive of that perfectly well. The bit I'm struggling with is why such expression can't be through the medium of a new thread rather than a post on TICTH.

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Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668

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quote:
Originally posted by passer:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
One possibility is that people have come to see TICTH as a "safe" place to have a bit of a rant without anyone else challenging or attacking them for it.

That is a very good point. I would add "ignoring" to "challenging or attacking".
Exactly. Sometimes it's good to be able to yell, "Oh f*** it" and get it over and done with. If someone wants to affirm it with, "Amen to that!" then why not? I agree that debate and discussion of the grievance probably belong somewhere else.

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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)

Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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Response to MtM
So, hundreds of posts which the initiator leaves after the first post followed by a page of inane chatter until a frustrated host closes it? All in hopes that one of a hundred will generate a decent discusion?

[ 14. May 2015, 14:01: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged



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