homepage
  roll on christmas  
click here to find out more about ship of fools click here to sign up for the ship of fools newsletter click here to support ship of fools
community the mystery worshipper gadgets for god caption competition foolishness features ship stuff
discussion boards live chat cafe avatars frequently-asked questions the ten commandments gallery private boards register for the boards
 
Ship of Fools


Post new thread  Post a reply
My profile login | | Directory | Search | FAQs | Board home
   - Printer-friendly view Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
» Ship of Fools   »   » Oblivion   » What causes religious observance and violence to peak in the same societies? (Page 2)

 - Email this page to a friend or enemy.  
Pages in this thread: 1  2 
 
Source: (consider it) Thread: What causes religious observance and violence to peak in the same societies?
Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

 - Posted      Profile for Martin60   Email Martin60   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Kwesi. OOOOOOOH. "You cunning blighter!", is what I want to say, but can't as that would be ad hominem and my even playing this game will get a hostly raised eyebrow at least.

But now I'm in your mammoth pit, what pointy stick do you have?

--------------------
Love wins

Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Kwesi
Shipmate
# 10274

 - Posted      Profile for Kwesi   Email Kwesi   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Pax Vobiscum for such a gracious reply, Martin60!
What more can I say in the context?

Posts: 1641 | From: South Ofankor | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

 - Posted      Profile for Martin60   Email Martin60   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Cuh. The pointiest of them all. Out-graced!

--------------------
Love wins

Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784

 - Posted      Profile for Tortuf   Author's homepage   Email Tortuf   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I think there are two way that people arrive at a religion. The one that usually only comes after times of suffering is the God who is with us and in us and loves us despite the fact that we are wholly imperfect. It is hard for our minds to even approach that God until the schemes and designs of our mind have proven to be broken. (Yeah, yeah, I know - heard it before from me.)

The second way people tend to arrive at a religion is through an evolutionary process of finding social norms that work to make society smoother. Then those social norms get elevated into law, or ritual, or both. Finally, they become religion. That which works - or seems to work - to make my life "better" must be ordained by God. Look at what had been food safety laws that became Kosher laws ordained by God.

The second way is also taught from parents and surrounding society to the youth of the society as a given truth. For instance, while Mormon beliefs may seem odd to us, they are perfectly normal to children raised in a Mormon household. (This is not to poke fun at Mormons. Their beliefs are no doubt as valid as mine.)

If your society has come to the point of engineering an angry, vengeful, god it will seem perfectly normal to cause violence and hatred in the name of your god.

How does a society get there? How about having extreme poverty for the masses while those in power live in luxury, unconcerned with the needs of the many? How about living in a society where your leaders blame "The West" for your problems to distract you from the fact that they are the ones screwing you over? How about living in a society where you have a college education and absolutely no job prospects? Combine that with visions of the greatness that once was empires controlled by Muslims and you get an explosion.

What causes this is right before our eyes. We ignore it and try to tame a people by killing their friends and relatives and then act surprised when they don't love us like we deserve to be loved.

We are the simple ones.

Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110

 - Posted      Profile for Barnabas62   Email Barnabas62   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Kwesi:
Barnabus62
quote:
It's the "fight" part of the fight or flight response of human beings when threatened. I'm making no moral judgment about that, I think it's just the way we are made.
Hobbes, of course took a different view In his opinion what men most feared was violent death and would, therefore, subject themselves to virtually any authority to avoid it. Biologically-speaking ISTM the human species naturally avoids any action that will limit the propagation of the species.
He did indeed, but he didn't have the benefit of research into human physiology and responses to stimuli.


It may be worth looking again at this link, which I provided earlier. Particularly the section on emotion regulation and emotional reactivity. Self control is always a challenge; understanding the physiology doesn't alter that, but understanding human physiology better may help us understand our various reactions better.

--------------------
Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Kwesi
Shipmate
# 10274

 - Posted      Profile for Kwesi   Email Kwesi   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Barnabus62, thanks for that, though I don't think it adds much to Hobbes.

I think, however, that we (and I mean we) are getting away from the point of the original question posed by HughWillRidmee. He was seeking an answer to the proposition that a high level of religiosity in society co-existed with a high level of violence. He was not claiming that they were causally linked, only that they existed together and were, presumably, the product of a common cause or set of causes.

Personally, I'm not convinced that placid or conservative societies are of necessity less religious than more agitated or radical ones. Indeed, religion is often a factor helping to sustain docility.

When, however, there is a period of intense social change, as there has been globally in the last fifty years or so, and particularly associated with urbanisation and mass political, mobilisation, there is a crisis of individual and group identity that cannot be satisfied by traditional social and religious norms. Consequently, there is a rise in fundamentalism, which, while appealing to the past is in reality new and radical, and becomes associated with demands for deep political change. Religious expression becomes more overt and potentially violent. There are numerous historical examples e.g. the crisis of the European Reformation in association with nationalism and the English Civil War, and in the contemporary world perhaps even more.

Thus, while I doubt that the extent of religiosity is necessarily greater in troubled times its expression is probably more noisy than in more peaceful contexts. I agree that religious fundamentalism and social unrest have a common cause and are not the cause one of the other; but I also hold that in association religion and social change can poor oil on burning fires.

Posts: 1641 | From: South Ofankor | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged



Pages in this thread: 1  2 
 
Post new thread  Post a reply Close thread   Feature thread   Move thread   Delete thread Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
 - Printer-friendly view
Go to:

Contact us | Ship of Fools | Privacy statement

© Ship of Fools 2016

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

 
follow ship of fools on twitter
buy your ship of fools postcards
sip of fools mugs from your favourite nautical website
 
 
  ship of fools