Posted                      

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Originally posted by Late Quartet:
I'm disappointed by the live prayer bit of the site, since it's unmoderated and full of hate speech and so on.

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Posted                      

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Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:

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Originally posted by mousethief:

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
The word God is not a shibboleth,

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No, but "Merry Christmas" is, in this country.

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I overheard an interesting conversation at the (secular) asylum-seeker centre this morning.

The woman on the desk was inviting a Muslim mother with a little boy to the centre's Christmas party, and asking the mum what he would like as a present from under the tree eg car, football (yes, I know, gender stereotype...).

When the mother replied that he would like a toy gun, she was gently "corrected"!

What I found rally interesting, however, was the blithely unashamed reference to Christmas.

I asked the reception woman about it after the mother left, and she told me that no-one had any problem with it, despite the centre's clientele's being at least 90% Muslim.

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SusanDoris: I don't go to the cinema, and therefore do not see their adverts, so all I would add to the question of whether this particular ad should be shown or not is that all other ads have an actual product or service available to buy or find out facts about, and the prayer ad....? Hmmm, well, no!!

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I know that "things are only true if they can be measured" is your bullshit hobby horse but come on, adverts? "Buy our stuff and you will be happy"

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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)

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Originally posted by Albertus:
can't remember where you're from, KC- if you're in one of a certain number of US states, perhaps this was just evidence of how quickly the family were integrating into their host community...)

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Posted                         

quote:

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Originally posted by Truman White:
It's a great missional opportunity. Open excuse to ask people what they think of the Lord's pray, have they every prayed it, do they ever pray, who to (sos, that should have been whom to...).

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Posted                          

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Originally posted by Dave W.:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
As has been sais, you'd think they'd have checked the media owner's policy before makingbthe ad. Perhaps they weren't told, but it does seem an oversight - particularly as there'd be terms and conditions available.

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DCM's advertising policy is just two clicks from their home page - you can get there via the link at the bottom marked "Advertising Policy". From which:

quote:

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2. Required Standards
2.1 To be approved, an Advertisement must:
2.1.1 have been cleared as compliant with the UK Code of Non-Broadcast Advertising;
2.1.2 have received any necessary classification (for example a film classification for age rating);
2.1.3 not in the reasonable opinion of DCM constitute Political or Religious Advertising; and
2.1.4 otherwise comply with DCM’s Terms and Conditions (effective from 1 January 2015), as published on DCM’s website (http://www.dcm.co.uk/).
2.2 For the purposes of clause 2.1.3 above, Political or Religious Advertising means:
2.2.1 political advertising for the purposes of section 321 of the Communications Act 2003; or
2.2.2 advertising which wholly or partly advertises any religion, faith or equivalent systems of belief (including any absence of belief) or any part of any religion, faith or such equivalent systems of belief.

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I'm more embarassed at the lack of common sense shown in not checking that an ad like that would be shown in cinemas before spending the time and money creating one. The policy's pretty clear.

It's certainly not typical of the ads you see now - other movies, competitions, products and reminders to turn your phone off / not steal movies.

Vanity project then.


Tubbs

[ 23. November 2015, 08:37: Message edited by: Tubbs ]

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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am

Posted                   

quote:

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Originally posted by Eutychus:

quote:

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Originally posted by Truman White:
It's a great missional opportunity. Open excuse to ask people what they think of the Lord's pray, have they every prayed it, do they ever pray, who to (sos, that should have been whom to...).

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What is? The advert or the controversy?

If the former, I can just see me clambering out of my seat as the opening scenes of Star Wars roll with my impacted cinemagoing neighbour to some makeshift "inquiry room"... I bet I could get just as good a conversation out of the film itself for no outlay by the Church.

If the latter, this is fuel to the conspiracy theory that the whole thing is a stunt designed to be rejected anyway, which hardly goes along with the apostle Paul's injunction not to use deceptive means when preaching the Gospel.

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Posted                      

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Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:

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Originally posted by Albertus:
can't remember where you're from, KC- if you're in one of a certain number of US states, perhaps this was just evidence of how quickly the family were integrating into their host community...)

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Australia actually, but close, because there is only the Pacific between us.

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Posted                         

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Originally posted by Truman White:
Shouldn't be too hard to start a casual conversation about the Gospel on the back of national news about prayer.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Komensky:
I'm not sure there's anything wrong with religious groups advertising in cinema's, provide they obey the same regulations as everyone else.

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Posted                       

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In any case, the chances of any such ad attracting more than either ridicule or boredom were going to be slight: Justin ought to get some sensible PR advice, not go with this type of cringe-making nonsense.

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Posted                         

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Originally posted by fletcher christian:
On the other hand, there is something slightly incongruous about having films like the Passion of Christ and the Lord's Prayer as a number one Christmas single and nobody complaining....except those that probably quite rightly felt that both movie and single were crap.

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Posted                          

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Originally posted by L'organist:
I'm gobsmacked that the powers-that-be didn't check what would be allowed before spending shedloads on a professional ad.

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Posted                          

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Originally posted by leo:

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Originally posted by L'organist:
I'm gobsmacked that the powers-that-be didn't check what would be allowed before spending shedloads on a professional ad.

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According to Bishop Stephen Cotterrell, the DID check but the goalposts have moved.

Ther HAVE shown political ads. in the past e.g. the Scottish referendum campaign.

A spokesman from the British Humanist Association thought that the ad. should go ahead - like their 'There is no god...'

And in repose to an earlier post, no we don't get the national anthem any more - it was always my cue to walk out.

A much bigger issue is that cinemas are often places of spirituality as movies often deal with the big questions.

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Posted                          

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Originally posted by Barnabas62:
It might have been better just to survey public opinion about just how annoying cinema advertising is. Trailers for upcoming movies - that's fine unless they show more than 5! Anything else - just time wasting and/or irritating. I'd lay strong odds that would be a big majority opinion.

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Posted                       

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Originally posted by leo:

quote:

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Originally posted by L'organist:
I'm gobsmacked that the powers-that-be didn't check what would be allowed before spending shedloads on a professional ad.

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According to Bishop Stephen Cotterrell, the DID check but the goalposts have moved.

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quote:

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And in repose to an earlier post, no we don't get the national anthem any more - it was always my cue to walk out.

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Posted                      

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Tubbs: It would be interesting to know when they checked as the pdf says the policy is effective from 1 January 2015 and it's now November 2015.

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Posted                      

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Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
I imagine that 'inviting and encouraging people to pray' would make for a very long-winded advert. You wouldn't be able to say much in one minute anyway.

The appeal of the ad, to me, is that it includes a variety of different types of people praying in different contexts, rather than one talking head (and I'm imaging a rather vicarish, Justin Welby-type character) telling us how and why to pray.

As it stands it doesn't belong in a cinema, but an ad in which a Welby lookalike yappers on about prayer would belong there even less.

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Posted                          

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Originally posted by LeRoc:

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Tubbs: It would be interesting to know when they checked as the pdf says the policy is effective from 1 January 2015 and it's now November 2015.

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From my experience, when an organisation announces that a new rule will be in place from a certain date, this doesn't mean that everyone in the organisation necessarily knows about this rule after the date has passed.

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It also depends on who and what you ask.

If you ask a sales question about placing an ad you are likely to be greeted with delight and offered a discount if you're a new customer.

If you ask a compliance question about the policy about placing ads on certain subjects - say religion and politics - you may get another.

Neither of which would be untrue.

Also, the policy is on the website ... Did no one really think to look or double check?! (This is a retorical question as the answer is obvious!)

Tubbs

[ 23. November 2015, 12:32: Message edited by: Tubbs ]

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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am

Posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by leo:

quote:

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Originally posted by L'organist:
I'm gobsmacked that the powers-that-be didn't check what would be allowed before spending shedloads on a professional ad.

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According to Bishop Stephen Cotterrell, the DID check but the goalposts have moved.

Ther HAVE shown political ads. in the past e.g. the Scottish referendum campaign.

A spokesman from the British Humanist Association thought that the ad. should go ahead - like their 'There is no god...'

And in repose to an earlier post, no we don't get the national anthem any more - it was always my cue to walk out.

A much bigger issue is that cinemas are often places of spirituality as movies often deal with the big questions.

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Posted                      

quote:

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Tubbs: It also depends on who and what you ask.

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Posted                          

quote:

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Originally posted by LeRoc:

quote:

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Tubbs: It also depends on who and what you ask.

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Yes, very much so. I'm starting to suspect that there was some internal miscommunication within the cinema company involved here.

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Posted                       

quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Or all three. Within the company, within the CofE and between the company and the CofE.

That makes a nice, neat Trinitarian formulary of it.

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Posted                         

quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Meanwhile, here is an interesting take on the issue:

http://www.kouya.net/?p=7467

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Posted                       

quote:

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Originally posted by Pyx_e:
Operational Success.

More people are talking, writing, tweeting and getting their panties in a wad about prayer than at any time in the last decade.

Communication, working as planned.

Getting is banned was a stroke of genius.

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Posted                          

quote:

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Originally posted by Eutychus:

quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Meanwhile, here is an interesting take on the issue:

http://www.kouya.net/?p=7467

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Andrew Graystone is a good friend and clearly a voice of reason here.

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Posted                       

quote:

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Originally posted by Tubbs:
The Church Mouse's response is interesting. The policy reads as if it was issued in January 2015, but their comments suggest it may have been later.

Tubbs

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Posted                       

quote:

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Originally posted by argona:
Yes! So maybe not so ill-conceived. And it does seem the Church sought assurances the ad would be acceptable, and received them, only to face a U-turn after the ad was in the can and paid for. So not so naive, more fucked in fact.

Still glad it's not going out though. Not the way to do it.

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Posted                       

quote:

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Originally posted by TurquoiseTastic:
I dunno. If you talk to the company involved and they say "no, there will be no problem, in fact, let us offer you a large discount" then it seems - understandable? excusable? - to think that it might be OK with everybody.

Why should it be any worse to screen a cinema advert about prayer (annoying or otherwise) than to put up an (annoying or otherwise) hoarding on the street?

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Posted                       

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Originally posted by mr cheesy:

quote:

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Originally posted by argona:
Yes! So maybe not so ill-conceived. And it does seem the Church sought assurances the ad would be acceptable, and received them, only to face a U-turn after the ad was in the can and paid for. So not so naive, more fucked in fact.

Still glad it's not going out though. Not the way to do it.

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If it is actually the case that the advertising people changed their mind, then OK, maybe that's an issue.

But still. This was so bone-headingly stupid, I'd have thought that almost anyone could have told the media people at Lambeth Palace that this was going to backfire. I mean, really, did they think that there was going to be a great outpouring of support for the right of the established church to preach to the unsuspecting public at a cinema?

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Posted                       

quote:

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Originally posted by argona:
Nobody was claiming any 'right' in this. And nobody was preaching. Just praying. To the unsuspecting? Maybe, but when was an unsuspected prayer ever a threat? Tactically, this was probably a bad move I'd agree, but mainly because the most likely reaction would be yours. And, in our place with our limitations, we have to be tactical.

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