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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Bacon Butties?
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
To me, whether jazz 'works' in a church building depends a bit on the kind of jazz.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
To me, whether jazz 'works' in a church building depends a bit on the kind of jazz.
Rules for Jazz gig:
1 - Don't advertise it as Jazz.
There are no other rules.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
Back to the vegetarianism argument - we had a mens' breakfast at our church for Fathers' Day a few years back.
The breakfast consisted of a bacon roll.
Our pastor announced "There is a vegetarian option. It's the roll."
I bet the pastor couldn't see what an colossal knob he was being, either.
[ 11. January 2016, 11:34: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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The Phantom Flan Flinger
Shipmate
# 8891
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
Back to the vegetarianism argument - we had a mens' breakfast at our church for Fathers' Day a few years back.
The breakfast consisted of a bacon roll.
Our pastor announced "There is a vegetarian option. It's the roll."
I bet the pastor couldn't see what an colossal knob he was being, either.
It was tongue in cheek. Everyone there got the joke.
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http://www.faith-hope-and-confusion.com/
Posts: 1020 | From: Leicester, England | Registered: Dec 2004
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Sioni Sais: Rules for Jazz gig:
1 - Don't advertise it as Jazz.
There are no other rules.
I hadn't heard that one. I like it!
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
Back to the vegetarianism argument - we had a mens' breakfast at our church for Fathers' Day a few years back.
The breakfast consisted of a bacon roll.
Our pastor announced "There is a vegetarian option. It's the roll."
I bet the pastor couldn't see what an colossal knob he was being, either.
It was tongue in cheek. Everyone there got the joke.
What joke? All I see is someone implying vegetarians are not worth catering for so can fuck off because tbey're not really welcome.
[ 11. January 2016, 15:16: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Or, that Real Men™ won't be vegetarians.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
Back to the vegetarianism argument - we had a mens' breakfast at our church for Fathers' Day a few years back.
The breakfast consisted of a bacon roll.
Our pastor announced "There is a vegetarian option. It's the roll."
I bet the pastor couldn't see what an colossal knob he was being, either.
It was tongue in cheek. Everyone there got the joke.
What joke? All I see is someone implying vegetarians are not worth catering for so can fuck off because tbey're not really welcome.
I must say, it sounded rather dismissive to me as well.
To be fair to the minister, this event probably wasn't evangelistic, but was designed to benefit and encourage church members. We'll have to assume that (unless it was some sort of lesser-spotted English megachurch) he knew all the men who were likely to attend, and also knew that they weren't vegetarians, or not strictly so.
Still, if there were any visitors at the church that day they might not have understood his brand of humour.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Context is (nearly) everything ...
Not really - lots of nastiness, even bullying, is glossed over by 'I was only joking'.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Yes, but that's often someone trying to put soemthing in a context that isn't actually there.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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The Phantom Flan Flinger
Shipmate
# 8891
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Posted
Everyone there knew it wasn't meant as anything other than a joke - it wasn't an outreach event as such, and there were unlikely to be any visitors there, it was just a tongue in cheek bit of humour.
I understand however, that such humour wouldn't necessarily come over in the text.
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http://www.faith-hope-and-confusion.com/
Posts: 1020 | From: Leicester, England | Registered: Dec 2004
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
Nope - I don't agree. He was being dismissive of vegetarians and even pointing out the lack of provision for them, which - these days - is unacceptable imo.
No doubt he thought he was being hilarious, but his exclusive attitude would have shone through.
I am not a veggie but plenty of my family are, for various reasons.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
I agree with Boogie. This is frequently part and parcel of a certain culture, found often but not exclusively in churches, in which off-the-cuff comments by authority figures serve, unwittingly or deliberately, to belittle the hearers and put them at a psychological disadvantage for no good reason - other than to further assert the authority of the speaker.
[ 12. January 2016, 10:11: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Alex Cockell
Ship’s penguin
# 7487
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Our Church has started giving bacon sandwiches before the service to encourage people in.
What do you think of this and other gimmicks to 'get people in'?
I see no problem with it. Esp if I was setting up an early service! BREAKFAST!
Posts: 2146 | From: Reading, Berkshire UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Alex Cockell
Ship’s penguin
# 7487
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
If you live in an area where there are lots of Muslims then it's not irrelevant. I know of two local churches which see their ministry as involving Muslims. This makes a lot of sense in their environment. A CU at a uni with a growing international or multicultural British intake might also find such considerations relevant to their evangelistic strategy.
In another setting, though, the aim may be to focus on the 'typical' student, or the indigenous, ordinary local person who isn't too bothered about being healthy so long as they're fed.
I write as someone who enjoys bacon, but it's obviously not the most culturally versatile, user-friendly food....
If you want a halal option - do some turkey rashers as well! Job done!
Posts: 2146 | From: Reading, Berkshire UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I agree with Boogie. This is frequently part and parcel of a certain culture, found often but not exclusively in churches, in which off-the-cuff comments by authority figures serve, unwittingly or deliberately, to belittle the hearers and put them at a psychological disadvantage for no good reason - other than to further assert the authority of the speaker.
This. I'm not a veggie, but my sister is a vegan and I'm very familiar with this attitude of belittling and scorning vegetarians.
Is this an example of microaggression, I wonder?
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
It depends on the context. I've certainly seen leaders use humour that way.
But there's an equal and opposite danger of falling into paranoia and interpreting an admittedly ill-conceived quip or remark as some kind of power-play posturing when it was simply a daft thing to say.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
But there's an equal and opposite danger of falling into paranoia and interpreting an admittedly ill-conceived quip or remark as some kind of power-play posturing when it was simply a daft thing to say.
Not when it's a systematic part of someone's behaviour and/or the first thing they say to you. There are corporate cultures that breed this kind of thing.
[ETA maybe this is a tangent... anyone want to start a thread on microaggression, whatever that is?]
[ 13. January 2016, 08:53: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Sure, I'd agree with that too, Eutychus, that some systems have that sort of thing embedded within their DNA.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I bet the pastor couldn't see what an colossal knob he was being, either. [/QB]
Yes, I must admit that my immediate response when seeing the scenario was 'tosser' - and yeah, I've been in church situations where this kind of joke is common, and usually there's a lot more negative-energy stuff going on than just one isolated incident.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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The Phantom Flan Flinger
Shipmate
# 8891
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I bet the pastor couldn't see what an colossal knob he was being, either.
Yes, I must admit that my immediate response when seeing the scenario was 'tosser' - and yeah, I've been in church situations where this kind of joke is common, and usually there's a lot more negative-energy stuff going on than just one isolated incident. [/QB]
So, if you ever try to have a joke and it misfires, you're happy to be called a "knob" and a "tosser"?
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http://www.faith-hope-and-confusion.com/
Posts: 1020 | From: Leicester, England | Registered: Dec 2004
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
It depends on whether the cap fits, doesn't it?
If someone acts like either of those things, then surely the epithet is appropriate?
![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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The Phantom Flan Flinger
Shipmate
# 8891
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
It depends on whether the cap fits, doesn't it?
If someone acts like either of those things, then surely the epithet is appropriate?
And if they don't, then it isn't
[ 14. January 2016, 13:51: Message edited by: The Phantom Flan Flinger ]
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http://www.faith-hope-and-confusion.com/
Posts: 1020 | From: Leicester, England | Registered: Dec 2004
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
So, if you ever try to have a joke and it misfires, you're happy to be called a "knob" and a "tosser"?
People who make quips like this need to think carefully about the target of their 'jokes'. Especially if the person making the quips is in a position of leadership. The 'jokes' speak volumes about their attitudes and values.
Piss poor outlook on a whole group of people (veggies) imo.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
So, if you ever try to have a joke and it misfires, you're happy to be called a "knob" and a "tosser"?
It isn't a joke in casual conversation - it is said from a stage with the intention of getting a rise out of a crowd.
Most of us have to act within positions of authority (our work for one) where there are consequences for not 'acting' the role. Usually these are rather greater than simply being thought of as a "'knob' and a "tosser"'.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
You'd think the point of a community outreach event would be to not just randomly exclude people. Or to project the attitude that your church is not interested in people who are "not our kind, dear.".
Not that you have to provide for every dietary eventuality, but yeah, not telling people they can piss off before they even show up would be a good move. Even non-vegetarians might not show up if they are concerned they might be subjected to random snotty "jokes" if they display any sign of being different.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
The Phantom Flan Flinger hasn't said that this was a community outreach event. Indeed, he said there weren't any visitors.
If it's a typical English congregation there were about 30-70 people present. With those numbers it's fairly easy to tell if there's an unfamiliar face in the room (presuming you're not in a cavernous church that could seat 1000+ people).
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Sure, I'd agree with that too, Eutychus, that some systems have that sort of thing embedded within their DNA.
Especially when making so called humourus and smart alec remarks at other denominatioins or church groupings "I was only joking .... well, really?"
This kind of attitude needs to be called to account - and if the comment is public, there's a good argument for a public response.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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