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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: The Ecumenical movement
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
Wow, that's a real leap for logical conclusions. If people trace the theological points of principle or of practice at stake causing the split or the worldly-abuses of power that drove a particular split they may actually become even more convinced of the need for a separate denomination.
Also those that want unity generally want the others to be the ones to change.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Frankenstein
Shipmate
# 16198
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
Wow, that's a real leap for logical conclusions. If people trace the theological points of principle or of practice at stake causing the split or the worldly-abuses of power that drove a particular split they may actually become even more convinced of the need for a separate denomination.
Also those that want unity generally want the others to be the ones to change.
In former centuries the faithful were lucky to be literate let alone being capable of tracing points of theological niceties. Good try, but quite ridiculous.
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It is better to travel in hope than to arrive?
Posts: 267 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2011
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Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
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Posted
mdijon you are right to feel what you feel is right.
We have different backgrounds and we do not always see things in the same way.
People cannot be blamed for seeing things in the ways which either their parents showed them or the community around them showed them or indeed in the way which they have come to understand for themselves.
We will only achieve perfection and unity if and when we reach Heaven. It should not stop us however from seeking unity even if we cannot reach it. But seeking unity should not necessarily oblige us to jettison dearly held beliefs.
For Catholics one of these is the eucharist and all which it entails. If there are some reasons which prevent non Catholic Christians from seeking full communion with the Catholic Church then it must be these same reasons which prevent them from taking part in the intimate moment of
sacramental communion in a Communion which they do not share.
I am happy to honour and respect Christians who do not share in the beliefs of the Church.They are my dearest brothers and sisters in Christ but of their own volition and from their own understanding and beliefs they do not wish to be part of the Catholic Church (as it is normally understood to be)
Posts: 3444 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2007
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
Wow, that's a real leap for logical conclusions. If people trace the theological points of principle or of practice at stake causing the split or the worldly-abuses of power that drove a particular split they may actually become even more convinced of the need for a separate denomination.
Also those that want unity generally want the others to be the ones to change.
I agree with the second point. I really disagree with the first.
Most of us approach Christian unity from the standpoint, 'wouldn't it be wonderful if the xxxx s became more like us'. It's not just the Catholics that think like that. Back in the days of Vatican II (can anyone remember that?), the prevailing feeling among Protestants was, 'isn't it wonderful. At last the Catholics are going to catch up with the Reformation'.
However, I do not think under modern conditions that anyone is ever entitled to say that there is any point of principle that is such a point of principle that makes it defensible to set up a new schism, and a separate denomination. There are enough schisms as it is.
Unless and until one gets thrown out, I think that those who claim something is an issue of principle, that they have the truth and the others don't, are obliged to stick it out. That's so even if it is uncomfortable and even if their belief that they know God's opinion and others don't obliges them to do all they can to try to persuade those who disagree with them to change their minds.
There is one Christ and one body of Christ. He is not divided. So we are not entitled to divide either. We are certainly not entitled to claim that he has led us out, called us to divide or whatever.
I know, from the response on these boards when I have said similar things recently, that there are many shipmates who disagree with me, but that is what I think.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
Wow, that's a real leap for logical conclusions. If people trace the theological points of principle or of practice at stake causing the split or the worldly-abuses of power that drove a particular split they may actually become even more convinced of the need for a separate denomination.
Also those that want unity generally want the others to be the ones to change.
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
In former centuries the faithful were lucky to be literate let alone being capable of tracing points of theological niceties. Good try, but quite ridiculous.
I thought we were talking about us? Even then I'd dispute that the standard of theological thinking has gone up so much that we are in a different class from our forbears. Are you really arguing that all those taking decisions to break away were illiterates who wouldn't have done it if they'd only known better?
That doesn't seem like a very ecumenical attitude to me.
[ 09. March 2016, 18:18: Message edited by: mdijon ]
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
There are enough schisms as it is.
I agree. I was more thinking of the historical justification for a current schism. For instance I think that the average reformed church person would be thoroughly convinced of the need for a reformed church movement to support their particular theological views no matter how much history they learnt. Likewise the average Pentecostal is going to feel the need for their style of worship irrespective (or maybe even because of) a knowledge of the history of their strand of Pentecostalism.
But I wasn't suggesting that at present I could think many people would be justified in a new split.
(Although perhaps a certain dead horse issue might be a persuasive candidate for me).
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Frankenstein
Shipmate
# 16198
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Posted
I believe that there are now thousands of denominations in existence.
If you see this as a strength then so be it and good luck.
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It is better to travel in hope than to arrive?
Posts: 267 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2011
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
I believe that there are now thousands of denominations in existence.
If you see this as a strength then so be it and good luck.
As with most things, it depends on your perspective.
If you view the (actually tens of thousands) of various denominations as schismatic attempts to be "more pure" than the others, if we see them all in competition with one another, then it is nothing but problematic. It's a sinful, prideful divisiveness that brings great harm to the body of Christ.
However, if you view the grand spectrum of diverse denominations as ways of reflecting the broad diversity of the body of Christ-- reflecting the various cultural streams, personality types, and perspectives of the whole church universal-- it is something quite wonderful and to be celebrated. It calls each of us to think beyond our narrow cultural boxes and be challenged to look at faith in new ways.
The reality I believe is somewhere in between.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Forthview:
It is indeed difficult for the Catholic church NOT to feel that it is indeed the Catholic Church.
(...)
It is part of the differing perspectives and beliefs which we have and we have to accept this, while searching for a way to come closer to other Christians with different backgrounds.
Ecumenical and indeed interfaith initiatives really get off the ground when the participants make a conscious effort to adopt the perspective of the other participants - which includes not simply assuming they know what that perspective is.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
Wow, that's a real leap for logical conclusions. If people trace the theological points of principle or of practice at stake causing the split or the worldly-abuses of power that drove a particular split they may actually become even more convinced of the need for a separate denomination.
Also those that want unity generally want the others to be the ones to change.
In former centuries the faithful were lucky to be literate let alone being capable of tracing points of theological niceties. Good try, but quite ridiculous.
The ultimate splitters are the original ones that split from the simplicity of Christ.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
I believe that there are now thousands of denominations in existence.
If you see this as a strength then so be it and good luck.
That's yet again a different point from the assertion that if individuals understand the history of their denomination they would want to reverse the process. People have different views and the differences aren't always due to misinformation.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Frankenstein
Shipmate
# 16198
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Posted
I am of the opinion that the vast majority of us are members of the denomination into which we were born,
I include myself.
As such we are taught of the self evident righteous of that particular stance.
When I entered the Royal Air Force, national service, I was unprepared for the strength of opposition there was towards my particular faith.
No other denomination was subjected to this kind of examination. They were well prepared, one might say orchestrated into what to say.
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It is better to travel in hope than to arrive?
Posts: 267 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2011
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Frankenstein
Shipmate
# 16198
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Posted
Righteous should read righteousness.
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It is better to travel in hope than to arrive?
Posts: 267 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2011
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Frankenstein
Shipmate
# 16198
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Posted
John 17:21 King James
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Need one say more?
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It is better to travel in hope than to arrive?
Posts: 267 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2011
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
John 17:21 King James
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Need one say more?
Of course one need say more. Does 'all may be one' mean one institution? I don't think it does, rather I think Jesus meant something closer to having unity of purpose and focus.
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
The other "more" one has to say is what should be sacrificed to achieve unity and by who.
To be blunt, is the message of that verse that I should become RC? Or Orthodox? Or remain Protestant but pray very hard that someone else changes? Which creates more unity?
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Frankenstein
Shipmate
# 16198
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
John 17:21 King James
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Need one say more?
Of course one need say more. Does 'all may be one' mean one institution? I don't think it does, rather I think Jesus meant something closer to having unity of purpose and focus.
Until Martin Luther, the vast majority of Christians were Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic and a few others.
All the main Christian bodies were present at the council of Nicaea AD 354.
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It is better to travel in hope than to arrive?
Posts: 267 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2011
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
The ultimate splitters are the original ones that split from the simplicity of Christ.
I note that in 1 Corinthians 1 those who proudly claim "I am of Christ" come in for as much flak from Paul as those claiming to be of Apollos, etc...
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Frankenstein: Until Martin Luther, the vast majority of Christians were Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic and a few others.
All the main Christian bodies were present at the council of Nicaea AD 354.
… aaand?
If you're saying that there is an imperative for us to become more united, then I agree with you. I am an active member of the ecumenical movement. What more are you expecting of us?
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
Until Martin Luther, the vast majority of Christians were Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic and a few others.
All the main Christian bodies were present at the council of Nicaea AD 354.
I don't understand what you think this is proving. A large percentage of Christianity think the RCC, Orthodox et al are the ones who need to do the changing in order to promote unity.
This is a pointless zero-sum game.
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Frankenstein
Shipmate
# 16198
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
Frankenstein: Until Martin Luther, the vast majority of Christians were Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic and a few others.
All the main Christian bodies were present at the council of Nicaea AD 354.
… aaand?
If you're saying that there is an imperative for us to become more united, then I agree with you. I am an active member of the ecumenical movement. What more are you expecting of us?
This is a statement of fact.
The real trouble came about in England after Henry 8 matrimonial difficulties and in Scotland by acts of parliament 1560
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It is better to travel in hope than to arrive?
Posts: 267 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2011
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Frankenstein: This is a statement of fact.
Thank you for stating this fact.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I note that in 1 Corinthians 1 those who proudly claim "I am of Christ" come in for as much flak from Paul as those claiming to be of Apollos, etc...
Yes, because they were asserting their moral superiority over everyone else, and so showing themselves just as schismatic as anyone else.
Years ago I remember speaking with a young man who wouldn't go to any local church as they were all denominational - he would only go to his own church, "the church with no name". We failed to make him see that, in fact, all he and his ilk were really doing was creating a new denomination.
[ 10. March 2016, 12:18: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Frankenstein
Shipmate
# 16198
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
Until Martin Luther, the vast majority of Christians were Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic and a few others.
All the main Christian bodies were present at the council of Nicaea AD 354.
I don't understand what you think this is proving. A large percentage of Christianity think the RCC, Orthodox et al are the ones who need to do the changing in order to promote unity.
This is a pointless zero-sum game.
By far the much larger percentage are RCC and Orthdox.
The much smaller percentage, divided into thousands of parts, think they have something to offer.
Indeed they have nothing to offer but disunity.
We are one flock.
You are asking us to join the sheep who are scattered.
What is the point of that?
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It is better to travel in hope than to arrive?
Posts: 267 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2011
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
By far the much larger percentage are RCC and Orthdox.
I'm not sure why you think that matters. Whichever way you look at it, a large minority in both directions believe it is the other who has to do the changing.
quote:
The much smaller percentage, divided into thousands of parts, think they have something to offer.
Indeed they have nothing to offer but disunity.
We are one flock.
You are asking us to join the sheep who are scattered.
What is the point of that?
I'm not asking you to do anything. I'm quite comfortable with anyone/everyone deciding for themselves which denomination fits and to which they are called.
This whole unity thing is a myth by which the RCC tries to use a phony moral superiority claim and a vivid imagination to bully others into acceptance. Unbelievably it doesn't work.
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arse
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
Agreeing with mr cheesy, but I'd take a step further back - those who feel institutional unity is what God intends need to make the argument for that viewpoint, instead of simply begging the question.
And then, which institution is the right one? Does numerical superiority trump all else, or is there some other test that should be applied in order to find out which is God's approved institution?
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
The much smaller percentage, divided into thousands of parts, think they have something to offer.
Indeed they have nothing to offer but disunity.
Besides disunity we also have cake and comfy chairs.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
Frankenstein, it feels a bit like you mostly want to accuse people and churches of not doing enough towards unity. Is there anything else you want to discuss?
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Frankenstein
Shipmate
# 16198
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I don't understand what you think this is proving. A large percentage of Christianity think the RCC, Orthodox et al are the ones who need to do the changing in order to promote unity.
This is a pointless zero-sum game. [/QB]
You wish to promote unity by promoting disunity.
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It is better to travel in hope than to arrive?
Posts: 267 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2011
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Frankenstein
Shipmate
# 16198
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Frankenstein, it feels a bit like you mostly want to accuse people and churches of not doing enough towards unity. Is there anything else you want to discuss?
It seems to be the topic in hand.
If we cannot clear the first hurdle there is little point in going on.
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It is better to travel in hope than to arrive?
Posts: 267 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2011
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
You wish to promote unity by promoting disunity.
Not at all, I am quite capable of being spiritually united with brethren in other denominations without the need to insist that the only acceptable form of unity would be for them to join my denomination.
That's the rub here. There is absolutely no way I would ever join the RCC. You've just got to get over it.
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arse
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Frankenstein
Shipmate
# 16198
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
The much smaller percentage, divided into thousands of parts, think they have something to offer.
Indeed they have nothing to offer but disunity.
Besides disunity we also have cake and comfy chairs.
Richard Dawkins, I am sure, is not adverse to cake and comfy chairs.
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It is better to travel in hope than to arrive?
Posts: 267 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2011
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Frankenstein, it feels a bit like you mostly want to accuse people and churches of not doing enough towards unity. Is there anything else you want to discuss?
Where the main thing they could do to promote unity would be to become RC.
As I say upthread, I accept that is a legitimate view and I'm not bothered by it.
It is naive to think that us disunity-types would be won around by reviewing our history (my God - it was all so Henry VIIIth could have a divorce? what a lie I've been living. Point me to a Catechism class now), or by derision of our disunity. Not being united to the RCC is the point of Protestantism. I accept that is a price, the gulf of understanding is to determine why a Protestant might feel like that in the first place.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Frankenstein, it feels a bit like you mostly want to accuse people and churches of not doing enough towards unity. Is there anything else you want to discuss?
It seems to be the topic in hand.
If we cannot clear the first hurdle there is little point in going on.
Well, the first hurdle is, as others have noted, deciding what is meant by "unity": Institutional unity? Baptismal unity? Spiritual unity?
The answer to this question drives how we seek to exhibit that unity more clearly.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
The much smaller percentage, divided into thousands of parts, think they have something to offer.
Indeed they have nothing to offer but disunity.
Besides disunity we also have cake and comfy chairs.
I didn't expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Frankenstein
Shipmate
# 16198
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
You wish to promote unity by promoting disunity.
Not at all, I am quite capable of being spiritually united with brethren in other denominations without the need to insist that the only acceptable form of unity would be for them to join my denomination.
That's the rub here. There is absolutely no way I would ever join the RCC. You've just got to get over it.
Believe me, no one on this website, has persuaded me in the slightest, to change my allegiance.
But as you clearly think that I am in the wrong, please would you advise me as to which of the denominations out there, I should apply?
Or will anyone do as long as it isn't Papist?
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It is better to travel in hope than to arrive?
Posts: 267 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2011
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
Who's saying you should leave the RCC, Frankenstein? It seems to me that you're the only person on this thread who's giving advice about what church people should be part of...
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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Eirenist
Shipmate
# 13343
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Posted
'All would be well if only the Pope were a bit more like the Archbishop of Canterbury.'
Discuss.
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'I think I think, therefore I think I am'
Posts: 486 | From: Darkest Metroland | Registered: Jan 2008
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
Believe me, no one on this website, has persuaded me in the slightest, to change my allegiance.
But as you clearly think that I am in the wrong, please would you advise me as to which of the denominations out there, I should apply?
As I said above:
quote:
I'm not asking you to do anything. I'm quite comfortable with anyone/everyone deciding for themselves which denomination fits and to which they are called.
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
Or will anyone do as long as it isn't Papist?
At the end of the day, your religious choices are none of my damn business. For me, the Pope is but one reason that I couldn't join the RCC, but what you do it up to you.
[ 10. March 2016, 14:06: Message edited by: mr cheesy ]
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arse
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Frankenstein
Shipmate
# 16198
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
Who's saying you should leave the RCC, Frankenstein? It seems to me that you're the only person on this thread who's giving advice about what church people should be part of...
I give no advice.
There are a few key points in history that have brought us to this sorry state.
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It is better to travel in hope than to arrive?
Posts: 267 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2011
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
If the RCC wants to persuade me to join them, a couple of glasses of Trappist beer might have a slightly bigger chance of success than anything that is argued on an internet forum.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Frankenstein
Shipmate
# 16198
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist:
'All would be well if only the Pope were a bit more like the Archbishop of Canterbury.'
Discuss.
All would be well if the Archbishop of Canterbury were more like his predecessors from Augustine to whoever it was yielded to Henry 8.
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It is better to travel in hope than to arrive?
Posts: 267 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2011
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
Of course the silly part of this is that the RCC itself is divided from Orthodox Christianity via the schism of 1054.
The RCC itself is schismatic.
Spitters.
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
I didn't expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition.
Well, no one expects the Spanish Inquisition.
Sorry. ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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Frankenstein
Shipmate
# 16198
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
If the RCC wants to persuade me to join them, a couple of glasses of Trappist beer might have a slightly bigger chance of success than anything that is argued on an internet forum.
Benedictine is also quite persuading!
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It is better to travel in hope than to arrive?
Posts: 267 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2011
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Frankenstein
Shipmate
# 16198
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Of course the silly part of this is that the RCC itself is divided from Orthodox Christianity via the schism of 1054.
The RCC itself is schismatic.
Spitters.
Mutual excommunicated.
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It is better to travel in hope than to arrive?
Posts: 267 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2011
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
Who's saying you should leave the RCC, Frankenstein? It seems to me that you're the only person on this thread who's giving advice about what church people should be part of...
I give no advice.
There are a few key points in history that have brought us to this sorry state.
Of the various models for the Church that fits under the "all one" umbrella you do seem to be leaning strongly towards an institutional unity where everyone is part of a single institution, and the sub version of that where it is achieved by everyone joining one of the existing denominations. And, your suggestion is that we wind back the clock and reverse the schisms that created the denominationalism in the first place, all the way back to Luther. Which effectively has all us prods rejoining the RCC.
So, yes you are giving advice about church membership. That if we're serious about being one body we should all join your church.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Frankenstein
Shipmate
# 16198
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Of course the silly part of this is that the RCC itself is divided from Orthodox Christianity via the schism of 1054.
The RCC itself is schismatic.
Spitters.
Mutual excommunicated.
The is a very cordial relationship between the Orthodox Church and the Church of Rome.
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It is better to travel in hope than to arrive?
Posts: 267 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2011
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
The is a very cordial relationship between the Orthodox Church and the Church of Rome.
Well of course, that's a category error: there is no "Orthodox church".
And it is the work of a moment to find Orthodox websites calling the RCC heretical and Roman Catholic websites which call the Orthodox churches heretics.
I'm not even going to waste my time searching for Protestants that call the others names.
[ 10. March 2016, 14:41: Message edited by: mr cheesy ]
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arse
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