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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: How relevant is Christianity in today's Britain?
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Frankenstein
Shipmate
# 16198
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Posted
This discussion about the rate of decline is academic.
Large parts of Europe appear to be suffering the same decline.
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It is better to travel in hope than to arrive?
Posts: 267 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2011
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
This discussion about the rate of decline is academic.
Large parts of Europe appear to be suffering the same decline.
So? It is very hard to understand (a) what it is that you want to discuss and (b) actually engage with you in discussion if you only post random single sentence contributions.
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arse
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Here is a different way of looking at the prominence of Christianity within Culture
I have used "the Church" deliberately to avoid references to specific buildings or congregations.They are therefore four differing ways of looking at the status of Christianity generally within culture.
I would love to know what has happened since 2000. My guess is that since 2005 we have seen an increase in the use of Christendom. I would also like to see this sort of analysis done on newspapers.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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SusanDoris
Incurable Optimist
# 12618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
This discussion about the rate of decline is academic.
Large parts of Europe appea to be suffering the same decline.
I would not use the word 'suffering'; I think we are benefiting from the move away from beliefs based on ancient stories, heaven and hell, 100% faith and no facts. Another rocket heading to Mars took off today and the information it will send back will be far more reliable, and with luck more useful, than any religious belief in a God.
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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
Posts: 3083 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Well, more useful in understanding the atmosphere of Mars and whether there might have ever been conditions suitable for life (if the hype is to be believed). I'm not sure what light it might shed on whether we should accept more refugees from Syria or close our borders to people in desperate need. Our faith positions, on the otherhand, can say quite a lot about refugees - and nothing about Martian atmospheric chemistry.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
This discussion about the rate of decline is academic.
Large parts of Europe appear to be suffering the same decline.
Your question was about Britain, not the rest of Europe. We could of course discuss the situation in Europe rather than just that part of Europe sitting on a few islands off the NW coast of the continent. But, perhaps you need to petition the hosts for a change in the thread title.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
(@SusanDoris: are you aware of the Astronomy thread in Heaven? We'd love to receive your input there.)
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
lilBuddha wrote:
quote:
ISTM, this is not quite accurate. Whilst the media have varying degrees of treatment of religion, at its core, Britain is a Christian culture. Culture is pervasive in one's views even when rejecting or ignoring elements of it.
If disestablishment occurred and every Christian citizen converted or became atheist, Britain would still be a Christian culture for a long time.
This is an interesting angle on it, but I am wondering what the 'core' means. I grew up with very little religious input, except at school. Most of my neighbours were non-religious, and it was only when I went to a posh school that I met kids who one could describe as Christian.
'Christian culture' is another puzzle; I suppose you could argue that our system of ethics is derived from Christianity. What else?
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Komensky
Shipmate
# 8675
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Posted
You need to be more specific about what you mean by 'Christianity'. If you want to discuss the OP in general terms the relevance will be different for many people. For those who think that with (whatever they mean by) Christianity more and more people will suffer an eternity of conscious torment, the consequences of that decline are serious indeed. For those with no obvious supernatural belief, the consequences are likely to be less severe. There will be many people in between those two polls. Christianity in the UK does both wonderful and repugnant things; ideally, it will continue to become nicer and more serving as it shrinks. Many Christians and/or Christian organisations do vital, positive work. If they were to stop doing that work, many people would suffer. That can't be a good thing. I would hope that the remains of Christianity will work with those outside of itself to help those in need. As it declines, I hope that Christians continue to help others in concrete ways.
In the streets of Canterbury, evangelicals stop people in the street and offer them 'healing'. This is a waste of everyone's time and a huge embarrassment to boot. Ideally, that type will vanish in the same way that fire worshippers did. I don't think that Christianity will go away completely (at least not in the near future), but it is likely (at least in some of its forms) to continue to reform and offer a better moral example than it has done traditionally.
Just as vague as the OP, but there you have it.
K.
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"The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity." - George Bernard Shaw
Posts: 1784 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2004
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Komensky:
In the streets of Canterbury, evangelicals stop people in the street and offer them 'healing'. This is a waste of everyone's time and a huge embarrassment to boot. Ideally, that type will vanish in the same way that fire worshippers did.
If you mean the bunch who set up near Oxfam in Canterbury, I disagree with this characterisation. They have a large flag thingy and a few chairs near a French cafe, but I've never seen them approach anyone.
Indeed, they mostly appear to be waiting for someone to come to them.
Incidentally similar things happen in my town: some - apparently very conservative Evangelical - Christians have a stall on market day. I've never seen anyone talking to them.
This also appears to be the main approach of the Jehovah's Witnesses who seem to put a stall of magazines and sit nearby waiting for someone to stop and talk to them about it.
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arse
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Komensky
Shipmate
# 8675
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by Komensky:
In the streets of Canterbury, evangelicals stop people in the street and offer them 'healing'. This is a waste of everyone's time and a huge embarrassment to boot. Ideally, that type will vanish in the same way that fire worshippers did.
If you mean the bunch who set up near Oxfam in Canterbury, I disagree with this characterisation. They have a large flag thingy and a few chairs near a French cafe, but I've never seen them approach anyone.
Indeed, they mostly appear to be waiting for someone to come to them.
Incidentally similar things happen in my town: some - apparently very conservative Evangelical - Christians have a stall on market day. I've never seen anyone talking to them.
This also appears to be the main approach of the Jehovah's Witnesses who seem to put a stall of magazines and sit nearby waiting for someone to stop and talk to them about it.
You are absolutely right about that. I sit corrected!
K.
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"The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity." - George Bernard Shaw
Posts: 1784 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2004
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
BTW Frankenstein, do you think that Christianity is losing its relevance in the UK? And do you feel that this is a good thing or not?
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
I am not sure why 'relevance' is so important.
If 'relevance' means meeting people's wants, rather than their needs, then fundamentalism acts as an opiate from current problems. That's why their churches are growing.
However, surely, the Gospel is counter-cultural.
The most interesting advances in theology, that speak to people, are liberation and feminist theology. However, they are largely outside the Westermn mainstream.
The Church Times has had a series of supplements about Theology during Lent and it makes for some of the most boring and irrelevant material I have come across in a very long time.
We need another John A T Robinson.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
"Is Christianity relevant?" is the wrong question. The question is whether it is true.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I am not sure why 'relevance' is so important.
If 'relevance' means meeting people's wants, rather than their needs, then fundamentalism acts as an opiate from current problems. That's why their churches are growing.
However, surely, the Gospel is counter-cultural.
The most interesting advances in theology, that speak to people, are liberation and feminist theology. However, they are largely outside the Westermn mainstream.
The Church Times has had a series of supplements about Theology during Lent and it makes for some of the most boring and irrelevant material I have come across in a very long time.
We need another John A T Robinson.
Now this is a reply which grabs me. You could even argue that the Gospel points us away from religion, couldn't you?
But the counter-cultural bit is very interesting, whereas UK Christianity has often shown the triumph of embourgeoisement. I knew I could get that word in this week, success!
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
'Christian culture' is another puzzle; I suppose you could argue that our system of ethics is derived from Christianity. What else?
Well, I suppose it is a bit difficult to unravel. Religion was integral to culture for vast swaths of time. So which shaped which is harder to tell. Common sense would dictate that it was a mutual thing.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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anteater
Ship's pest-controller
# 11435
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Posted
Mr Cheesy:
quote:
So? It is very hard to understand (a) what it is that you want to discuss and (b) actually engage with you in discussion if you only post random single sentence contributions.
Does the ship allow restricted participation threads? We could continue this discussion purely between Frankenstein and Martin, if both were willing.
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Schnuffle schnuffle.
Posts: 2538 | From: UK | Registered: May 2006
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by anteater:
Does the ship allow restricted participation threads? We could continue this discussion purely between Frankenstein and Martin, if both were willing.
I could probably programme a twitterbot to do that. But unsurprisingly it wouldn't be a discussion.
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Bibaculus
Shipmate
# 18528
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
"Is Christianity relevant?" is the wrong question. The question is whether it is true.
Hurrah!
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A jumped up pantry boy who never knew his place
Posts: 257 | From: In bed. Mostly. When I can get away with it. | Registered: Dec 2015
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
Seems like a lot of people think the Christian concept of God is important but church is pretty much irrelevant.
There is also an increase in atheism but also in "spiritual but not religious" - does the UK census have that category?
You have access to the internet, so you too can inspect the data.
If church is being seen as irrelevant, what is being done to address it?
TANGENT/ A search engine such as Google gives very different responses to the same question asked from different countries. Info easily available in one country may be hard to find in another. /tangent
What are churches doing about it? Killing hymns and choirs and substituting crappy choruses on the wacky theory that will attract young adults. See the thread in dead horses.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
Whoops, double post -- years ago I read an article about the strong effect of Christianity on forming the Western European culture.
Not church going specific behavior, but cultural sense of how things should be, what the shared values and assumptions are.
Some of it is pre-Christian (Jewish) origin, some only partially applied; and yet there are ways the western Christianity informed culture differs from some other cultures, that even most of our atheist friends would be upset if the culture ditched those values.
For a simple example, a day off every week - not every culture has that concept.
Might be an interesting exercise to list ways the culture is formed and informed by Christianity (for good and ill).
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Frankenstein
Shipmate
# 16198
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
This discussion about the rate of decline is academic.
Large parts of Europe appear to be suffering the same decline.
Your question was about Britain, not the rest of Europe. We could of course discuss the situation in Europe rather than just that part of Europe sitting on a few islands off the NW coast of the continent. But, perhaps you need to petition the hosts for a change in the thread title.
Sorry, I should not have mentioned Europe.
However, it is worth remembering that we are not unique in Europe.
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It is better to travel in hope than to arrive?
Posts: 267 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2011
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
You could even argue that the Gospel points us away from religion, couldn't you?
There is plenty of evidence that Jesus was pointing away from the religious dogma of his age. Then the religion set up in His name acquires a dogma all of it's own. Hardly surprising it's being rejected in many quarters now people have been granted the freedom to do so.
That isn't to say it won't keep popping up somewhere else. Christianity seems to have an inbuilt metamorphosis characteristic.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by anteater:
Mr Cheesy:
quote:
So? It is very hard to understand (a) what it is that you want to discuss and (b) actually engage with you in discussion if you only post random single sentence contributions.
Does the ship allow restricted participation threads? We could continue this discussion purely between Frankenstein and Martin, if both were willing.
8th day was created to try just that. It flopped.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
hosting/
Any ongoing discussion of what the Ship does and doesn't do, should or shouldn't do, and why, belongs firmly in the Styx.
/hosting
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Frankenstein:
s will deal with it in 20 to 30 years time. It'll be just pagent with no substance I suppose, that is presuming a different religion hasn't come to fill the vacuum demanding such observances are no longer carried out.
The Prince of Wales who might become King, has said that he felt he should become defender of faiths.
The Queen remains the head of the Church of England.
No she doesn't - that's Jesus.e
She is its 'supreme governor'.
I thought she was defender of the faith.
Apparently Henry 8 saw himself as supreme head.
This title was also given to his son Edward. [/QB][/QUOTE]
The QWueen is supreme governor of the C of E
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
"Is Christianity relevant?" is the wrong question. The question is whether it is true.
I've learned in dealing with the narratives of others that it's ALL true. But it isn't the truth.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
And Komensky, evangelicals do exactly that on the streets of Leicester too.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
"Is Christianity relevant?" is the wrong question. The question is whether it is true.
I've learned in dealing with the narratives of others that it's ALL true. But it isn't the truth.
You're welcome to read my statement as "...whether it is the truth" instead. Either way, I stand by it; I don't particularly give a shit whether it's relevant.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Thank you.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
I am not so concerned about the numbers game. It could be that a healthier church will come out of the ashes. The church is actually gaining members in Africa. We still see many people who consider themselves spiritual if not religious. A sizable group are called "seekers"--though I think we all fall into that category if truth be known.
The pendulum swings back and forth. I remember in the 70's people were concerned the church would die out within the next generation. It didn't. Evangelicals came on strong. Now evangelicals are weakening, but many of the reasons for the softening of attendance among evangelicals are opportunities for growth for more center of the road religious groups.
How to grow the church? Preach the Word--if necessary use words. Change the attitude from being a welcoming community to an inviting community (some people call it missions). Engage people where they are at--not where you want them to be. Stay positive, not negative.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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AlexaHof
Apprentice
# 18555
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Posted
I find it interesting that this discussion focuses largely on the decline of church attendance. Recent surveys about belief demonstrate that something other than a straightforward decline of religion is going on - a large proportion of the population report beliefs in some kind of deity and afterlife or related experiences; testament to the kind of spiritual responses humans have always had. See, for example:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24576115
On this evidence, while institutional religion may be on the decline, religious faith is not. And then - IMO the more interesting - question becomes: what are its new forms and qualities? There are plenty of examples of individuals and groups who are trying to work out, to live out, this question, both Christian and non.
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'God is dead.' Nietzsche
'Nietzsche is dead.' God
Posts: 7 | From: Wiltshire | Registered: Feb 2016
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by AlexaHof:
I find it interesting that this discussion focuses largely on the decline of church attendance. Recent surveys about belief demonstrate that something other than a straightforward decline of religion is going on - a large proportion of the population report beliefs in some kind of deity and afterlife or related experiences; testament to the kind of spiritual responses humans have always had. See, for example:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24576115
Up to a point I agree - I think a lot of the talk of decline centres around comparisons with the early part of the 20th century where the level of popular religion was relatively high after hitting a fairly low point in the previous century.
OTOH .. I think that there is a difference insofar as these 'spiritual' beliefs that are held are much less likely to seem to impinge into peoples lives in the way in which they did in the past. Essentially things have tended to move in a much more deist direction.
So I don't think that the theos report should necessarily give comfort to anyone really.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by AlexaHof:
I find it interesting that this discussion focuses largely on the decline of church attendance. Recent surveys about belief demonstrate that something other than a straightforward decline of religion is going on - a large proportion of the population report beliefs in some kind of deity and afterlife or related experiences; testament to the kind of spiritual responses humans have always had. See, for example:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24576115
On this evidence, while institutional religion may be on the decline, religious faith is not. And then - IMO the more interesting - question becomes: what are its new forms and qualities? There are plenty of examples of individuals and groups who are trying to work out, to live out, this question, both Christian and non.
Whilst Fr. Weber is correct about the question being 'is it true?', it's worth considering the example of Kodak. Kodak strongly believed in photography, and believed it had a future, and they were right, but Kodak confused photography with film and film cameras, and were commercially undermined by digital photography. Photography is still alive and well, but very few people use 35mm film, and Kodak are no longer virtually synonymous with popular photography.
Relevance, in the sense I think it does matter, is about not being like Kodak, but asking about what photography means to people now.
[ 24. March 2016, 19:21: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Superb analogy. Like Rob Bell's Oldsmobile God.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
OK most people have "spiritual beliefs"
Let us unpack.
Firstly, the beliefs held are rarely those of Christian Doctrine. Typically some sort of belief in an afterlife, or synchronicity or such. Those typified by my supervisor, Martin Stringer characterised as "Chatting with Gran at her grave".
Secondly having such beliefs and acting on them are two different things. They are often held as something that is interesting but rather irrelevant to ongoing life.
To argue from this rather debased understanding of belief in a fairly amorphous set of phenomena to the ongoing prevalence of Christianity in British culture is tenuous indeed.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Bravo. We are a superstitious monkey and we bring that to Christianity. Just like Jesus.
Whenever one exposes this naked emperor - superstition NOT Christ, even with His - people's faith shudders. Including mine. Still.
In my current home group I consistently express this. One poor sister, who's life is vastly multiply burdened beyond most of ours here, with issues for which God will NEVER twiddle His Samantha nose, said after the first time "Then what's the point?".
Exactly. The church has NO answer. Not even a QUESTION. There can be NO conversation in Evangelicalism in Anglicanism and beyond, or in any of the other greater superstitious denominations.
And OF COURSE I pray with my sister and all others who insist in desperate superstition over relentless experience.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
I would say there is nowt for the comfort of rationalist atheists either. The chance is not that society is going to become more rational with the removal of Christianity but that rather it will fall back into superstitious disconnected spiritual practices.
Human beings are spiritually-believing apes. We experience transcendence, at least in the sociological understanding and intellectually need a narrative framework to handle it.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
I would say there is nowt for the comfort of rationalist atheists either. The chance is not that society is going to become more rational with the removal of Christianity but that rather it will fall back into superstitious disconnected spiritual practices.
Human beings are spiritually-believing apes. We experience transcendence, at least in the sociological understanding and intellectually need a narrative framework to handle it.
Jengie
I think that this is already happening. There are far more people who believe all kinds of strange things about angels and about 'karma' than profess any belief in God.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
They used to do that as Christians to a man. And more likely woman.
[ 27. March 2016, 12:33: Message edited by: Martin60 ]
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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SusanDoris
Incurable Optimist
# 12618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
I would say there is nowt for the comfort of rationalist atheists either. The chance is not that society is going to become more rational with the removal of Christianity but that rather it will fall back into superstitious disconnected spiritual practices.
Human beings are spiritually-believing apes. We experience transcendence, at least in the sociological understanding and intellectually need a narrative framework to handle it.
Jengie
I certainly agree that we humans need a narrative, which is why the background, CofE, protestant culture will remain in place until the eventually stronger narrative, relying on knowledge, science and the confidence to say 'not known at present' to the questions which for now have the answer -God takes its place.
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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
The superstitious you will always have with you.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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HughWillRidmee
Shipmate
# 15614
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
...Besides, in the UK if you were to ask people about the basis for assessing questions of morality, ethics or justice the top two answers would be
- Some variation on "it's common sense" (including arguments about natural law, how we help others because we might need help someday etc)
- The teaching of Jesus
....
You have some evidence for this?
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
... adherence to the Christian moral code, personal identification, or...? ....
Same misunderstanding our PM continues to promote. Human morality existed before Christianity, it just got rebranded, had irrationality added enough to create a space for faux leadership and spread based on military power.
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The danger to society is not merely that it should believe wrong things.. but that it should become credulous, and lose the habit of testing things and inquiring into them...
W. K. Clifford, "The Ethics of Belief" (1877)
Posts: 894 | From: Middle England | Registered: Apr 2010
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Kindness is FOREVER.
That's UNIQUELY it.
The simplicity of Christ.
[ 28. March 2016, 11:00: Message edited by: Martin60 ]
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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