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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Cameras and Spiritual Beliefs
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Angel Wrestler
Ship's Hipster
# 13673
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Posted
I had occasion to take some pictures of people at an event related to my work. I understand when some folks would rather not be shown on the facebook page, but I got a reaction from one woman that surprised me. She said, "I don't do pictures."
I said, "Oh, I hate being photographed, too; I always come out looking horrible."
She said, "No; it's just that I'd rather keep my soul inside my body."
I didn't know her outside of this gathering and thought it was rude to ask for more information, but it's left me wondering what religions would believe this about getting a photograph? I know that 100 years ago, some Native American tribes were leery of being photographed for similar reasons, but this is the first I've heard.
She did tell me that she is not Christian, later on when we talked a little further.
I'm bringing it to Purg because it's not really Ecclesiantics or Kerygmania but it's more serious than a "Heaven" topic ... move to where it's appropriate.
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The fact that no one understands you does not make you an artist.
(unknown)
Posts: 2767 | From: half-way up the ladder | Registered: May 2008
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
I too have heard that some first peoples react this way, but I am cautious because, well, Eliza Fraser got stranded on an island off the coast of QLD and reckoned the people she was with were cannibals. As it turned out the only cannibals in Australia were the whites.
I'll watch this thread with interest.
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
AngelWrestler was she serious? It's the kind of smartarse comment I might make if I objected to s stranger taking my photo.
Simontoad have you a date for that?
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
Today, image has become so much more important than substance; and many people take selfies rather than landscapes, seem to be obsessed with how they look to others, and feel the need to post pictures of themselves online to affirm their existence.
I find the idea of being dispossessed of one's soul, with the latter inextricably bound up in images of oneself, to have pretty contemporary applications.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
I suspect this was most likely a rehearsed response - albeit possibly relevant given today's potential for viral spread of images as Eutychus says.
I think there are various anecdotal stories about cultural groups who worried about the spiritual effect of photography - including IIRC the Sioux leader Crazy Horse and some tribes somewhere in Africa. I'm not sure how true these are.
I think it is better established that Amish (well, some of the Amish - they're quite a varied community) do not allow images of their faces because they believe them to be graven images. Others allow images as long as they are not posed (I guess this is something to do with showing off).
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Today, image has become so much more important than substance; and many people take selfies rather than landscapes, seem to be obsessed with how they look to others, and feel the need to post pictures of themselves online to affirm their existence.
I find the idea of being dispossessed of one's soul, with the latter inextricably bound up in images of oneself, to have pretty contemporary applications.
Yes.
When I go to the gym many young women there talk constantly about their appearance and what they chose to wear (to the gym!)
It was not like that in 'my day'. You would talk about such things when getting dressed up for a disco(!) but not for everyday life.
I love photography and my cameras and lenses, but I am bemused by the current obsession with physical looks re: self image.
This could be my age - and probably is, but I feel liberated by the lack of need to look good. I've stopped dying my hair and it's great to go 'natural'. I just need to look smart occasionally (work) and decent the rest of the time (ie dressed!). Has it always been like this for men? Probably. Freedom indeed!
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Huia:
AngelWrestler was she serious? It's the kind of smartarse comment I might make if I objected to s stranger taking my photo.
...
That would be my suspicion.
In Greengage Summer a forgotten film from long ago, a character raises that objection but it later turns out the reason is that he's a criminal on the run.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Tukai
Shipmate
# 12960
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Huia:
Simontoad have you a date for [Eliza Frazer]?
1836 (see wikipedia entry on her). Patrick White dramatised the story in his novel "Fringe of Leaves". The parallel story of Barbara Thompson, who lived happily for years as a member of an aboriginal tribe after her ship was wrecked off the Queensland coast in the 1840s is told by Ian McCalman in his book "The reef: a passionate history"
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A government that panders to the worst instincts of its people degrades the whole country for years to come.
Posts: 594 | From: Oz | Registered: Sep 2007
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
The idea that possessing an image of someone or something gives you some sort of power over it crops up in quite a number of societies. I've seen it suggested that the idea may lie behind some of the earliest cave paintings.
The suggestion in the OP isn't that exactly, but it may come from similar thoughts.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Today, image has become so much more important than substance; and many people take selfies rather than landscapes, seem to be obsessed with how they look to others, and feel the need to post pictures of themselves online to affirm their existence.
I find the idea of being dispossessed of one's soul, with the latter inextricably bound up in images of oneself, to have pretty contemporary applications.
Yes.
When I go to the gym many young women there talk constantly about their appearance and what they chose to wear (to the gym!)
It was not like that in 'my day'. You would talk about such things when getting dressed up for a disco(!) but not for everyday life.
I love photography and my cameras and lenses, but I am bemused by the current obsession with physical looks re: self image.
This could be my age - and probably is, but I feel liberated by the lack of need to look good. I've stopped dying my hair and it's great to go 'natural'. I just need to look smart occasionally (work) and decent the rest of the time (ie dressed!). Has it always been like this for men? Probably. Freedom indeed!
Well firstly, for many people, clothes and makeup are a fun hobby. I don't want to be 'liberated' from something I enjoy just because others deem it frivolous. It's no more frivolous than birdwatching or reading cookery blogs. Also I guarantee you that many women in 'your day' dressed up for everyday activities, especially working-class women. Also many men like clothes and makeup too, one of the best known fashion blogs (The Sartorialist) is run by a man.
I'm going to pick up on Eutychus' point - lots of people who disenfranchised or unreal use selfies and an interest in fashion/beauty as self-care, a way of self-affirmation. It is a helpful and healthy thing for them. For example, I have sometimes suffered a feeling of not being real due to mental health issues - using makeup and clothes to feel more real helped. For trans kids who feel alone and invisible (for example), selfies can be a lifeline.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
Magician Derren Brown once proposed an experiment: if you doubt the power of images, take a photograph of the person you love most, and stab it violently with a pair of scissors. How do you feel?
(Precisely the same psychological "block" accounts for the reluctance of many Christians to destroy Bibles or icons.)
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
In Greengage Summer a forgotten film from long ago, a character raises that objection but it later turns out the reason is that he's a criminal on the run.
Alternatively, as is the case for one person of my acquaintance, the reason is he's a cop.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Yes, there's a grim alternative meaning for "keep my soul inside my body." Your non-photographee may be trying to keep her image off the internet in order to prevent a vicious abusive ex or similar from locating her. Really, nowadays you ought to get permission from everybody whose photos you are going to post on a company/school website. This applies to children at risk for parental abduction too.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Magician Derren Brown once proposed an experiment: if you doubt the power of images, take a photograph of the person you love most, and stab it violently with a pair of scissors. How do you feel?
(Precisely the same psychological "block" accounts for the reluctance of many Christians to destroy Bibles or icons.)
I don't have any psychological block to destroying photos (physical or digital) or bibles unless they're really good photos (unusual if I'm taking them) or usable bibles.
That said, I do have a sense of wanting to preserve really old photos, even if they're just of ordinary people doing ordinary things. So I would likely hesitate if you told me to cut up a pile of old pictures.
I also don't like destroying things that other people value, so I probably wouldn't like to knowingly destroy a photo that I knew someone else wanted kept.
But YMMV, I know different people react differently to me.
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
I assure you, mr cheesy, MPMV (Many People's Mileage Varies)! ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Lamb Chopped, if we had a "like" button I'd hit it a hundred times for that last post of yours.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I'm not sure if the experiment is about, say, putting a print of a picture you took of a loved one through the shredder because you've taken five of them. I'm guessing it involves going physically through the motions of violently stabbing such a photo several times. I'm not sure if I'd have the same reaction to that.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
Quite. I am sure people would react quite differently seeing a photo put up on a poster board with pins in the corner versus a pin through the centre of the face. Some of the reaction to the latter could be rationalized as wondering what the pinner-upper was trying to communicate, but I'm sure some would be visceral.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I feel very uncomfortable about cards for sale in Oxfam. You can find some of them here: Photograph cards (Look at the scrolling selection at the foot of the page.) Some of them have been sourced from advertisement photographs, but others seem to be from private collections. I don't know how the designer gets them, but she puts supposedly funny* captions on them, and I'm not sure how the people in the pictures would have reacted to being used in this way.
It's not so much that they have stolen the soul from them, but more that it seems to be denying them any real existence.
*Some of them are funny. But in some the humour comes from the the appearance of the people, not the words.
[ 15. March 2016, 13:50: Message edited by: Penny S ]
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Penny S: This is a better link for what I am not happy about. Photocaptions
I can see what you mean.
In the 19ᵗʰ Century, some anthropologists took photographs of Native Americans involved in their religious events. Perhaps this was seen as a curiosity at the time, but nowadays we perceive some of these rituals to have been rather intimate.
These photos are now in the Public Domain because of their age, but I feel a bit uneasy when someone uses them for example as a frivolous illustration on their web page.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
I feel very uncomfortable about cards for sale in Oxfam. You can find some of them here: Photograph cards (Look at the scrolling selection at the foot of the page.) Some of them have been sourced from advertisement photographs, but others seem to be from private collections. I don't know how the designer gets them, but she puts supposedly funny* captions on them, and I'm not sure how the people in the pictures would have reacted to being used in this way.
It's not so much that they have stolen the soul from them, but more that it seems to be denying them any real existence.
*Some of them are funny. But in some the humour comes from the the appearance of the people, not the words.
I think most of those will have been photographed or drawn to order. There's a thriving market for that sort of thing. The clothes and surroundings have been chosen to convey the period image. I share your reservations about humour based on people's appearance though, irrespective of however they were sourced.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
In the 19ᵗʰ Century, some anthropologists took photographs of Native Americans involved in their religious events. Perhaps this was seen as a curiosity at the time, but nowadays we perceive some of these rituals to have been rather intimate.
Not just the 19ᵗʰ Century -- many Native American peoples still prohibit photography and sound recording during their ceremonies. Here is one example, not too far from where I live.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
This could be my age - and probably is, but I feel liberated by the lack of need to look good. I've stopped dying my hair and it's great to go 'natural'. I just need to look smart occasionally (work) and decent the rest of the time (ie dressed!). Has it always been like this for men? Probably. Freedom indeed!
quote:
Originally posted by Pomona:
Well firstly, for many people, clothes and makeup are a fun hobby. I don't want to be 'liberated' from something I enjoy just because others deem it frivolous.
I didn't ask you to be. I would say 'enjoy your hobby!'
But I do fell liberated and really enjoy my new found lack of care about the way I look. I'm not saying I make no effort to look smart or decent (I'm not a ragbag!), just that I have no need to feel attractive - and it feels great!
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
This could be my age - and probably is, but I feel liberated by the lack of need to look good. I've stopped dying my hair and it's great to go 'natural'. I just need to look smart occasionally (work) and decent the rest of the time (ie dressed!). Has it always been like this for men? Probably. Freedom indeed!
quote:
Originally posted by Pomona:
Well firstly, for many people, clothes and makeup are a fun hobby. I don't want to be 'liberated' from something I enjoy just because others deem it frivolous.
I didn't ask you to be. I would say 'enjoy your hobby!'
But I do fell liberated and really enjoy my new found lack of care about the way I look. I'm not saying I make no effort to look smart or decent (I'm not a ragbag!), just that I have no need to feel attractive - and it feels great!
Do you not feel attractive as you are? I don't wear makeup to feel attractive because I am beautiful/attractive whether I wear it or not.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pomona:
Do you not feel attractive as you are? I don't wear makeup to feel attractive because I am beautiful/attractive whether I wear it or not.
No I don't, but I also no longer feel the need to.
I think my point is that it would be great if the way we look had nothing to do with our attractiveness to others. I mix with a lot of blind people these days and they are free of all this 'nonsense'.
Some young people really do seem to dwell on it
all the time and that can't be healthy.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Several years ago Motherboard and JB kindly hosted a shipmeet in New Mexico and I was thrilled that we got the opportunity to attend some corn dances at local pueblos. These were ceremonies that the Native Americans had opened to the public as opposed to other more private events. It was made very clear in signage near the parking areas that photography was not allowed. So everyone visiting put away their cameras and cell phones. What they do now that smart phones seem to be surgically attached to people palms, I don't know.
I don't know that the reason for the ban is about loss of soul. The impression I get is that they feel that people of the greater culture treat their lives as curiosities like interesting scenery which seems disrespectful. Even on non-event days pueblos will often require a fee for the use of cameras in their villages. This makes photography more of an equal business transaction- and brings in a bit of cash for maintaining the infrastructure.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by Pomona:
Do you not feel attractive as you are? I don't wear makeup to feel attractive because I am beautiful/attractive whether I wear it or not.
No I don't, but I also no longer feel the need to.
I think my point is that it would be great if the way we look had nothing to do with our attractiveness to others. I mix with a lot of blind people these days and they are free of all this 'nonsense'.
Some young people really do seem to dwell on it
all the time and that can't be healthy.
How sad - I am sure you are an attractive person really. Everyone is beautiful.
Also the shallowest, most selfie-happy people I know are middle-aged women whose kids have left home, not 'young people' at all - it is pure ageism to paint this as young people being silly.
Selfies are great for confidence and self-care - maybe care about giving people self-confidence rather than dismissing selfies.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
Drifting off a bit here, I'm not convinced that all people who take selfies are therefore self-centered, and that criticism of this practice doesn't contain a bit of snobbism.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
Even on non-event days pueblos will often require a fee for the use of cameras in their villages. This makes photography more of an equal business transaction- and brings in a bit of cash for maintaining the infrastructure.
Like many English Cathedrals, and for the same reasons.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
I really wasn't aware of the power of photos until about five years ago. A group from church were walking in the bush and some people were taking photos. I was aware of someone behind me taking photos of the bush, but didn't realise that he had taken a photo of me (from behind and not identifiable) until afterwards when we were sharing the different photos people had taken. I was OK with him having taken it and he emailed me a copy.
Later I commented to him that it was my favourite photo of myself as it was the only where I am striding confidently through a place I love, and that looking at it when I was feeling 'down' reminded me that I was more capable than I was currently feeling.
A few days later when we met for coffee he handed me a tube - it was my photo blown up to A2 size. It lives plastered on the side of my fridge and still has the power to brighten a 'down' day.
Huia
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I think my point is that it would be great if the way we look had nothing to do with our attractiveness to others. I mix with a lot of blind people these days and they are free of all this 'nonsense'.
Some young people really do seem to dwell on it
all the time and that can't be healthy.
As pomona says, it's not merely a phenomana restricted to the young - and in fact my observation would be exactly the same, in that the most vain people I know are mostly middle aged women ..
For the young - who are often living in a state of precarity, 'looking good' can be as much about keeping up ones self esteem in an environment in which life just seems to shit on you from a great height.
Re: the OP, it could equally be the assumption of a 'traditional' belief, based on some form of new age underpinning.
[ 15. March 2016, 21:49: Message edited by: chris stiles ]
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
Several years ago Motherboard and JB kindly hosted a shipmeet in New Mexico and I was thrilled that we got the opportunity to attend some corn dances at local pueblos. These were ceremonies that the Native Americans had opened to the public as opposed to other more private events. It was made very clear in signage near the parking areas that photography was not allowed. ...
Every church wedding I've ever been to specifically tells people not to take pictures during the actual ceremony. I think all cultures have occasions where we're all supposed to be paying attention. Please tell me people don't yet take pictures at funerals ....
And of course, as Lamb Chopped pointed out, any photograph today + Photoshop + internet = fucking disaster
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
We take photos at funerals. But that's for the thoroughly oldfashioned problem of families divided by immigration. people are comforted and will show you albums of these pics to show everything was done "right" and the person properly cared for. We made particularly sure to do a good job of this for three orphans who had lost their mother young.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
I have lots of old family photos taken at funerals, not during the service, but with everyone all posed around the open casket either before or afterward. Everyone went to funerals, even more than they went to weddings, and so they took those opportunities to take family photos.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I think my point is that it would be great if the way we look had nothing to do with our attractiveness to others. I mix with a lot of blind people these days and they are free of all this 'nonsense'.
Some young people really do seem to dwell on it
all the time and that can't be healthy.
As pomona says, it's not merely a phenomana restricted to the young - and in fact my observation would be exactly the same, in that the most vain people I know are mostly middle aged women ..
Yes, you are right. The obsessed people I tend to notice are at the gym and young. But I agree it happens across all ages. Although wouldn't call this problem vanity. I would say it's a real, often all consuming, concern for some people (mostly women?) that they need to feel attractive looking.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Angel Wrestler
Ship's Hipster
# 13673
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Huia:
AngelWrestler was she serious? It's the kind of smartarse comment I might make if I objected to s stranger taking my photo.
Simontoad have you a date for that?
Yes. She was serious.
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The fact that no one understands you does not make you an artist.
(unknown)
Posts: 2767 | From: half-way up the ladder | Registered: May 2008
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Angel Wrestler
Ship's Hipster
# 13673
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Yes, there's a grim alternative meaning for "keep my soul inside my body." Your non-photographee may be trying to keep her image off the internet in order to prevent a vicious abusive ex or similar from locating her. Really, nowadays you ought to get permission from everybody whose photos you are going to post on a company/school website. This applies to children at risk for parental abduction too.
Yes! I understand that and I *do* ask permission to photograph and to post. I also do not list anyone's names unless I know it's OK - and I do not list children's names
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The fact that no one understands you does not make you an artist.
(unknown)
Posts: 2767 | From: half-way up the ladder | Registered: May 2008
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Angel Wrestler
Ship's Hipster
# 13673
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Posted
sooo..... it appears that this woman has her own superstition about being photographed.
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The fact that no one understands you does not make you an artist.
(unknown)
Posts: 2767 | From: half-way up the ladder | Registered: May 2008
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molopata
The Ship's jack
# 9933
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Posted
If it is indeed something she believes in, then she must be aware that she will have had her soul ripped out and run through the wringer several times over given the ubiquity of CCTVs (I am assuming that you do not work as an anthropologists on the fringes of modern society).
So I am assuming that (again if she is serious about it and not just winding you up), she will be referring to the process of how the picture is used by humans with active minds and consciences for purposes outside her control, rather than the mechanical process of storing her image on paper or digital storage devices.
In fact, I would be surprised if she had thought through the mechanics of what she had said, and thus suspect that the comment reflects a general discomfort by being visually recorded by people she knows, as they might just use the images in a way that may damage her personhood. This might be what she means by "soul".
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... The Respectable
Posts: 1718 | From: the abode of my w@ndering mind | Registered: Aug 2005
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Doing a bit of searching, the only "soul capturing" seems to be New Age stuff.
From what little I do know about "primitive" religions is that, in some, likeness has power. Sympathetic magic. So a photograph does not need to be seen as capturing one's soul to be deemed potentially harmful.
And there are a lot of privacy issues as well.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Re the effect of photos:
Terry Pratchett's novel "Moving Pictures" takes this on, though focused more on movies than still images. It's really good, thought-provoking, and often hilarious--and it has the Librarian!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Huia--
Great story about your fridge photo! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
Not exactly the same thing but a related concept, it seems to me -- there was a huge case in our local news last year when a hearing-impaired student complained to the university about a prof who refused to use assistive technology (AIUI, basically a microphone and recording device) so that the student could hear her lectures, citing religious grounds. Immense public scorn and derision was heaped upon the prof as neither she nor the university would explain (nor were they legally obligated to explain) what religious prohibitions would keep her from having her voice recorded. One friend of mine who knew the prof in question assured me that it was indeed a sincerely-held, though not very mainstream, religious belief.
There were very brief clips of her being interviewed for the news (though she did not speak extensively to the media) so it seems like her religious beliefs don't extend to every instance of her voice, and possibly image, being captured or recorded.
The incident described in the OP made me wonder if there are many pockets of such sincere religious belief that most of us aren't aware of, where people might oppose having pictures taken or voices recorded for reasons that might seem a bit "woo-woo" to the rest of us.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angel Wrestler:
I had occasion to take some pictures of people at an event related to my work. I understand when some folks would rather not be shown on the facebook page, but I got a reaction from one woman that surprised me. She said, "I don't do pictures."
I said, "Oh, I hate being photographed, too; I always come out looking horrible."
She said, "No; it's just that I'd rather keep my soul inside my body."
I didn't know her outside of this gathering and thought it was rude to ask for more information, but it's left me wondering what religions would believe this about getting a photograph?
I came across this belief decades ago. I can't now remember which culture it is that believed it (it wasn't a mainstream one) but the principle is that the camera takes a little of the person's essence in each photo. The more photos that are taken, the more of your own essence, or soul, you lose. And an evilly disposed person could perform witchcraft with such a photo.
If I remember correctly there are also some who believe that the camera itself actually retains the bits of soul and the only way to release these is to break the camera.
So no, I don't believe she made that up. In today's society as someone upthread has already remarked, though, it would be difficult not to be photographed whether aware of it or not. You can hardly go ten yards down the road these days without being picked up on CCTV, webcams, whatever.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Ariel: I said, "Oh, I hate being photographed, too; I always come out looking horrible."
Does this mean that all the pictures uploaded on Instagram will make it come alive and hunt all people ruthlessly until there is no-one left?
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
As I read this discussion I keep remembering this scene (around 1:00).
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
... the principle is that the camera takes a little of the person's essence in each photo. The more photos that are taken, the more of your own essence, or soul, you lose.
And there are some who think the whole thing is gone with the first photo. This ties in with things like not stepping on a witch's shadow (otherwise she has the power to make you do what she wants), or inadvertently slipping up and doing other things that give your power or self to someone else. It's a very old principle and part of sympathetic magic.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Ariel: I said, "Oh, I hate being photographed, too; I always come out looking horrible."
Not my quote. Thanks.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
LOL, the piece I wanted to quote was:
quote:
If I remember correctly there are also some who believe that the camera itself actually retains the bits of soul and the only way to release these is to break the camera.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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