|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Is religion wasting valuable time and resources?
|
Komensky
Shipmate
# 8675
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
SD said two things. One, that Christianity did not originate moral principles - obviously correct.
Two, that Christianity appropriated them. This is very vague, but the idea of treating other people well is presumably common to many religions, and is partly to do with cooperation and altruism.
Also the idea of self-renunciation is widespread.
As far as 'love your enemy', I don't know if that has been talked about in other moral systems, that is, before Christianity.
Buddha was specific about loving your enemy. I think we covered that above.
K.
--------------------
"The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity." - George Bernard Shaw
Posts: 1784 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
|
Posted
Taoist Laozi says: "To those who are good to me, I am good; and to those who are not good to me, I am also good; and thus all get to receive good."
(Tao Te Ching 49)
Also 500 BC ish.
I'm sure the idea is as old as human life itself.
--------------------
Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Chesterbelloc
Tremendous trifler
# 3128
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Komensky:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
As far as 'love your enemy', I don't know if that has been talked about in other moral systems, that is, before Christianity.
Buddha was specific about loving your enemy. I think we covered that above.
Well, we "covered" it here, here, and here, but there was nothing that established that Buddha was "specific about loving your enemy".
--------------------
"[A] moral, intellectual, and social step below Mudfrog."
Posts: 4199 | From: Athens Borealis | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Taoist Laozi says: "To those who are good to me, I am good; and to those who are not good to me, I am also good; and thus all get to receive good."
(Tao Te Ching 49)
Also 500 BC ish.
I'm sure the idea is as old as human life itself.
Probably correct. But SD did argue that Christianity had 'appropriated' moral codes. So, it's not just a question of a preceding moral idea such as love your enemies, but did it influence Christianity? That's going to be very hard to show.
--------------------
I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
|
Posted
Re Christianity drawing on earlier teachings:
IIRC, CS Lewis said (maybe in "The Abolition Of Man"?) that yes, Jesus spoke the same good teachings that were found in many other times and places, and that was exactly what you'd expect if God came into the world--using the good things that we'd already learned. Or something like that.
--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
|
Posted
As the teachings of Jesus were drawn from the scriptures, ie what had come from the one living God and been handed down through his people by word of mouth and later in writing, it might be said that the outside world drew from the root of Christianity.
--------------------
Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
|
Posted
Raptor's Eye--
...or that God built those teachings into Nature for everyone--sometimes known as Natural or General Revelation.
...
For more about how certain teachings/truths play out in similar ways, across multiple religions and belief systems, check out Religious Tolerance's sections on Reciprocity (aka the Golden Rule). (Susan--Including Humanism! About 1/2 way down this page. ![[Smile]](smile.gif) )
Under "Satanism", the quotes from the Satanic Temple's 7 Tenets are amazing. Not what you'd expect at all.
--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
SusanDoris
Incurable Optimist
# 12618
|
Posted
Golden Key
Thank you for the link - I have listened quickly through and will do so again later. Humanism is, of course, the best section!!
--------------------
I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
Posts: 3083 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
|
Posted
Susan--
Of course it is! ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Raptor's Eye--
...or that God built those teachings into Nature for everyone--sometimes known as Natural or General Revelation.
...
For more about how certain teachings/truths play out in similar ways, across multiple religions and belief systems, check out Religious Tolerance's sections on Reciprocity (aka the Golden Rule). (Susan--Including Humanism! About 1/2 way down this page. )
Under "Satanism", the quotes from the Satanic Temple's 7 Tenets are amazing. Not what you'd expect at all.
Yes, if God exists, he seems to be spreading wisdom around the world pretty evenly, among different peoples and religions. He's an equal opportunity employer!
--------------------
I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Yes, if God exists, he seems to be spreading wisdom around the world pretty evenly, among different peoples and religions. He's an equal opportunity employer!
We might speculate as to how it fits in with the story of 'The tree of the knowledge of good and evil', whether or not we are better off with such wisdom, which some assume is natural, and/or has evolved.
If it meant that there was no evil in the world as we are all so naturally wise, I might be convinced.
As it is, I believe that the one living God is the source of all goodness. Where religion helps us to become conscious of God's presence so that we put it into practice in the world, it will never be a waste of time or resources, quite the opposite.
And yes, God is an equal opportunity employer!
--------------------
Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
|
Posted
With regard to Rev. 2:22ff, it ought to be pointed out that we don't know whether the "woman Jezebel" is an actual human person or whether she is a personification of a particular theological tendency (the Jezebel for whom she is named had been dead for centuries at the time the Revelation was written). Additionally, it should be acknowledged that the verses cited are in the context of the letter to the church at Thyatira, one of seven letters contained in the first 2 chapters of Revelation, and that it is also not clear whether these churches are the actual communities in those cities at the time the book was written or whether, again, they typify certain tendencies or dispositions in the early church. Personally, my take is that Revelation is a coded history of the early church (up to c. AD 90 or so), and that both inward stresses and outward pressures are represented in it figuratively.
But that's only one possible interpretation. It's also possible to read it literally and to conclude that there was an actual woman who was promoting heresy in Thyatira, and that Jesus intends to afflict her and her adulterous lovers with painful illnesses and all the rest of it. With apocalyptic literature, though, the obvious meaning is often not the intended meaning.
The assertion that Christianity appropriated Buddhism can be accepted once manuscripts of the Dhammapada (translated into Greek or Aramaic) are found in Palestine. Which will be any day now, I'm sure.
And if Christianity merely appropriated moral principles (from where isn't mentioned, of course), then why did Christians differ with Roman culture about the morality of exposing unwanted infants? About gladiatorial games? About divorce? Pederasty?
--------------------
"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view
