|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Fuck you black dog
|
Hugal
Shipmate
# 2734
|
Posted
I did not say you had Evensong. I was just trying to get the thread back on track. I thought I made that clear.
Thanks Sioni Sais
--------------------
I have never done this trick in these trousers before.
Posts: 1887 | From: london | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
|
Posted
The Black Dog seems to be a good breeder. I sometimes think the conditions under which we live create a good breeding ground for the cur. It's impossible sometimes not to feel trapped. Hugal, for what it's worth, you're not alone - even though it feels like it.
--------------------
Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
alienfromzog
Ship's Alien
# 5327
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hugal:
I did not say you had Evensong. I was just trying to get the thread back on track. I thought I made that clear.
Thanks Sioni Sais
I've been trying really hard not to get drawn on this but.
Of course an internet forum is not a place to go for professional support. Let alone Hell.
However, I do often find Hell therapeutic in that is provides a safe place to rant at things that deserve to be ranted at. This is psychologically helpful.
It has been noted before that Evensong seems to comment on all Hell threads. And because of reactions this provokes, she often (be it inadvertently or not) hijacks threads into comments about her.
Now, I'm no expert... but... no wait, on this I bloody am. (Until a real expert, like Doublethink turns up...)
Now, it seems to me, that someone who seeks to be involved in pastoral care, ought to be developing as much sensitivity as possible.
I strongly suspect that Dogwonderer's (sorry, Yorick's) defence is (at least) partly self-serving. Yorick has known the collective ire of the enraged Hell-collective.
There is no rule that says Evensong should have some insight and sensitivity. There is no rule that says people should post with insight and sensitivity.
But, you know what, people's instinctive responses can be quite revealing... When someone starts a thread entitled 'Fuck you black dog' anyone knowing the Churchill reference who actually cares about the people Jesus died for (everybody) ought to maybe reach inside themselves and respond in the same way they would to the 'Fuck you cancer' thread.
Hey, maybe I'm wrong... but you know what... the Ship is a great place for debate. It really, really is. An Hell is for the most robust of debates.
So Evensong, I may be completely misjudging you, and if I am, I really do apologise, but seriously, why do you post the stuff you do on threads like this? It's not about you.
It's not about you.
There are a lot of Shipmates who have fought the Black dog. There are many who still fight it. Why, why, why is your first response so truly hellish rather than ship-hellish? That's what I want to know.
The Black dog is much like cancer. He destroys people from the inside out. When such people fight back, surely Hell is a great place to rant at him?
AFZ
--------------------
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]
An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)
Posts: 2150 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
|
Posted
What AFZ said. Apologies for un-hellish agreement.
--------------------
But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.
Posts: 8040 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hugal:
I did not say you had Evensong. I was just trying to get the thread back on track. I thought I made that clear.
Sorry. Misread your post. ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by alienfromzog:
It's not about you.
Quite.
Then its best not to write a long post about me and ask me to answer questions huh?
--------------------
a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
|
Posted
*Gnashes teeth. Tries to restrain oneself. But can't quite let tidbit slide*
quote:
Originally posted by alienfromzog:
But, you know what, people's instinctive responses can be quite revealing... When someone starts a thread entitled 'Fuck you black dog' anyone knowing the Churchill reference who actually cares about the people Jesus died for (everybody) ought to maybe reach inside themselves and respond in the same way they would to the 'Fuck you cancer' thread.
I did a week long intensive on death, dying, grief and suicide last year. The recurring theme that came up was that people respond to these things in very different ways. There is no "correct way". As medic, I'm surprised you aren't attuned to that.
When a seventeen year old classmate of my son topped himself a few months ago and I was driving my son and his friends to the funeral they were all sitting quietly and speaking in hushed voice. Know what I felt? Rage. Pure fucking rage at the total, horrific injustice of the situation that was so so wrong.
After the funeral I spent a couple of hours online researching teenage suicide - trying to understand causes, trying to understand why such a young person could be driven to such despair.
Was this a wrong response? No. It's my way of getting some kind of a handle on a situation that is totally insane.
And you know what? It will inform my work in the future as a possible school chaplain. It will make me more sensitive to signs that I need to watch out for so I might be able to help. It will help me craft possible pastoral programs that might help catch these kids before its too late.
Is this how I would respond in a pastoral situation? No.
Don't tell me how to respond.
Fuck off.
[ 20. January 2013, 01:10: Message edited by: Evensong ]
--------------------
a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
When a seventeen year old classmate of my son topped himself a few months ago and I was driving my son and his friends to the funeral they were all sitting quietly and speaking in hushed voice. Know what I felt? Rage. Pure fucking rage at the total, horrific injustice of the situation that was so so wrong.
After the funeral I spent a couple of hours online researching teenage suicide - trying to understand causes, trying to understand why such a young person could be driven to such despair.
Was this a wrong response? No. It's my way of getting some kind of a handle on a situation that is totally insane.
I'll leave Zog to answer the fuck off bit.
For my part, I had a weird feeling there was something back of your responses-- something you were working out.
So:
1. I hear you.
2. There are some things that you can't get a handle on, because they are insane. That doesn't mean you missed something.That just makes you a member of the human race.
Rage all you need to, but weeping winds up being a lot more efficient. IME.
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Rage all you need to, but weeping winds up being a lot more efficient. IME.
That nails it for me.
Huia
--------------------
Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
AberVicar
Mornington Star
# 16451
|
Posted
Dear Evensong,
'I did a week's course'; 'I spent a couple of hours online'.
Do you really think that qualifies you to find answers? Because the comments you're making on this thread risk making people's depression worse rather than better.
It's a scary thing, and there are no answers, just companionship from those who've actually been through it.
Romans 12.15
--------------------
Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, make sure you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes.
Posts: 742 | From: Abertillery | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
passer
Indigo
# 13329
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by AberVicar:
... the comments you're making on this thread risk making people's depression worse rather than better.
And some seed fell on stony ground.
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
|
Posted
I think rage and weeping are both good. A lot of depression conceals anger, and if someone can tap into it, they often find that their depression abates. But others have long held onto grief, and then crying is good. And some people do both. But there is no recipe. I think 'fuck you' is an excellent slogan, anyway.
--------------------
I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
claret10
Ship's Paranoid Android
# 16341
|
Posted
Oe thing that has always pissed me off, to the extent that as a teenager it made me just rebel,is people pretending they understand. This especially applies to professionals such as psychiatrist. Yes i've met some good ones, but most believe they know what they are talking about and try to pigeon hole you, to fit a conceptual model.
Through the numerous different therapies i've been in i've met others struggling with mental illness, despite my own struggles and education on this area, i have only ever met one person who i could honestly have said, 'I understand where you are coming from' I did feel very sorry for her as it meeant we were far too similar.
The people (especially one) who have helped me the most are those who are willing to say they don't know, but they are willing to sit there with me and really listen and learn from what is said.
Some of the people that have hurt me the most (in terms of people aiming to help me) are those who believe they know what they are talking about but clearly have no fucking clue, who then proceed to make you feel bad because you don't fit their preconceived ideas and make you feel like you are not trying and if only you did what they told you, you would be 'cured'
--------------------
Just when you think life can't possibly get any worse it suddenly does
Posts: 137 | From: Somewhere, nowhere, anywhere | Registered: Apr 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
|
Posted
claret10
Good post, and I agree with a lot of that. I always had two things in mind as a therapist - first, it's empirical. That is, it's fatal to go into a session with preconceived ideas. Second, waiting is good. I am prepared to wait a long time to find out what makes somebody tick.
On the first point, the great analyst Bion said to the therapist - begin the session 'without desire or memory or understanding'. This is maybe a bit too strong, but it's a helpful corrective.
--------------------
I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
|
Posted
quote:
On the first point, the great analyst Bion said to the therapist - begin the session 'without desire or memory or understanding'. This is maybe a bit too strong, but it's a helpful corrective.
How about "without prayer" ?
quote:
Because the comments you're making on this thread risk making people's depression worse rather than better.
In your opinion. My opinion is Hell is great for ranting but if you want help go to All Saints.
God forbid anyone should stand in the way of the black dog, mock it, refute it or "not understand" it. Is this a discussuion board or a "group hug all agree with each other" ass kissing contest?
I kinnda think that (in Hell in particular) people get to say what they want. Call ES for her ideas but some here seem to be implying she should shut up in case we scare the kittens.
Fly Safe, Pyx_e
--------------------
It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
|
Posted
Send this post to All Saints if needs be .
Latest research says the way to send Black Dog away with it's tail between it's legs is to do just 6 hours of gardening per week.
--------------------
Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
AberVicar
Mornington Star
# 16451
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
In your opinion. My opinion is Hell is great for ranting but if you want help go to All Saints.
*snip*
Call ES for her ideas but some here seem to be implying she should shut up in case we scare the kittens.
Fly Safe, Pyx_e
People have come here to rant against one of the most destructive experiences a person can suffer from. That's fine until she (or you, or anyone else) pushes them over the edge with the sort of voyeurism that would end you up with a black eye in RL. And just because it's Hell let me point out that if you can't see that you deserve a black eye yourself.
--------------------
Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, make sure you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes.
Posts: 742 | From: Abertillery | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
|
Posted
oh please, you all need to get your undies unknotted. Evensong may have stunned me initially with her complete non-understanding of what depression does, but so the fuck what? This isn't All Saints. it isn't the place for handholding. It is a great place for lashing out, which I find to be valuable. If Evensong wants to put herself in the crosshairs, more power to her. Meanwhile, you're all whining like a bunch of babies because someone ain't being properly sensitive.
know what? and I speak from the perspective of one who is a diagnosed depressive with anxiety disorder, completely in fucking control right now, so I get to say - there's too much fucking handholding going on where this shit is concerned. I'm not saying the boot straps method works, but not many folks are implying that. The reality is, tiptoeing around a depressive isn't going to help. We need to face some real world stuff, which includes the clueless. So hey, open your eyes and deal. the real world isn't doing any of us any favors by treating us all like special little snowflakes.
Way back on page 1 Patdys needed to vent. Rightly so. We all need to. and we all need to be rude and callus and pissy, too. this little game of "shhh don't scare the dormouse" only encourages the problem.
Evensong may annoy the fillings out of my teeth, but this? this is right:
quote:
And I'm told that after suicide is the worst possible time to talk about causes.
But guess what? We never talk about them otherwise.
You can't shoot the dog if you spend forever running away from it.
Get a grip, you bunch of babies.
--------------------
Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
AberVicar
Mornington Star
# 16451
|
Posted
So go and be rude and callous and pissy in the mirror, because you know what?
Sometimes the crap you're peddling ends up in a place of no return.
BTW your nether garments seem to be very seriously contorted... ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
--------------------
Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, make sure you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes.
Posts: 742 | From: Abertillery | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by AberVicar:
So go and be rude and callous and pissy in the mirror, because you know what?
Sometimes the crap you're peddling ends up in a place of no return.
BTW your nether garments seem to be very seriously contorted...
Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks ...
--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Amorya
Ship's tame galoot
# 2652
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by AberVicar:
Do you really think that qualifies you to find answers? Because the comments you're making on this thread risk making people's depression worse rather than better.
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
there's too much fucking handholding going on where this shit is concerned. I'm not saying the boot straps method works, but not many folks are implying that. The reality is, tiptoeing around a depressive isn't going to help.
I'm with Comet here.
I suffer from depression. I'm a member of the Waving Not Drowning private board, and if I want a safespace I'll post there.) Were I not a member of it, I'd post in All Saints.) But I'm glad Hell isn't one. Sometimes I find a place where people say what they honestly think is really helpful, because I know other people struggle too. Any safespace leads to the worry at the back of my mind that people are censoring their opinions because my poor little depressed brain can't cope with the truth.
Amorya
Posts: 2383 | From: Coventry | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
|
Posted
quote:
People have come here to rant against one of the most destructive experiences a person can suffer from. That's fine until she (or you, or anyone else) pushes them over the edge with the sort of voyeurism that would end you up with a black eye in RL. And just because it's Hell let me point out that if you can't see that you deserve a black eye yourself.
You can't be a voyeur to something done in public, vagina monkey.
--------------------
It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
When a seventeen year old classmate of my son topped himself a few months ago and I was driving my son and his friends to the funeral they were all sitting quietly and speaking in hushed voice. Know what I felt? Rage. Pure fucking rage at the total, horrific injustice of the situation that was so so wrong.
There's a fine line here. There may be (arguably) no incorrect way for us to personally respond to things that happen to us directly and affect us; but when we are responding to other people's responses to their own trials there is most definitely a wrong way to do that.
I'm sure you were far from being the only one who was angry about the young man's suicide. But that's your personal response. You're entitled to that and nothing wrong with that. However, if someone were to share with me how their depression makes them feel, my response should not be 'how interesting, now let's just discuss my reaction to that'.
In general - beware of generalisms (see what I did there?!) like 'there is no wrong way to grieve etc'. The more I see the more I think that's just a rather lazy way of saying 'of course there are wrong responses: suicide, murder, stalking the doctor who didn't cure your loved one, using your grief to manipulate others etc. But otherwise we all feel grief differently, so don't think how you feel makes you wrong or a bad person'.
Just how I see it though. Every specific situation has its own dynamics.
--------------------
Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Yorick
Infinite Jester
# 12169
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by alienfromzog:
I strongly suspect that Dogwonderer's (sorry, Yorick's) defence is (at least) partly self-serving. Yorick has known the collective ire of the enraged Hell-collective.
Self-serving? Wrong, dick head. Fuck your strong suspicion.
--------------------
این نیز بگذرد
Posts: 7574 | From: Natural Sources | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
AberVicar
Mornington Star
# 16451
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
]You can't be a voyeur to something done in public
Chambers's Online Dictionary
and keep your foul mouth to yourself before someone shuts it for you.
--------------------
Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, make sure you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes.
Posts: 742 | From: Abertillery | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
|
Posted
My apologies, I always understood a voyeur to do his looking in secret, I take you point I got it wrong.
You are still a gibbering idiot for using that word in this context as your definition easily shows.
quote:
before someone shuts it for you
Did you just make an actual threat aginst me?
lolz
Fly Safe, Pyx_e
--------------------
It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
alienfromzog
Ship's Alien
# 5327
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
Fuck off.
*shrugs*
Hey, say what-the-hell-you like but don't expect to not get called on it.
I don't think anyone is asking for a hell thread to be non-hellish, simply replying in a hell-appropriate manner.
Now, if you excuse me, I'm off to fuck some strong suspicions...
AFZ
--------------------
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]
An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)
Posts: 2150 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amorya:
quote:
Originally posted by AberVicar:
Do you really think that qualifies you to find answers? Because the comments you're making on this thread risk making people's depression worse rather than better.
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
there's too much fucking handholding going on where this shit is concerned. I'm not saying the boot straps method works, but not many folks are implying that. The reality is, tiptoeing around a depressive isn't going to help.
I'm with Comet here.
I suffer from depression. I'm a member of the Waving Not Drowning private board, and if I want a safespace I'll post there.) Were I not a member of it, I'd post in All Saints.) But I'm glad Hell isn't one. Sometimes I find a place where people say what they honestly think is really helpful, because I know other people struggle too. Any safespace leads to the worry at the back of my mind that people are censoring their opinions because my poor little depressed brain can't cope with the truth.
Amorya
OMG, postgasm. Yes. Yes. YES.
And y'all Hellions* can be really damn fickle, I gotta say. Over the years I have seen people say some pretty atrocious shit to people in the midst of painfully vulnerable situations -- people who didn't have an entourage of supporters-- and pretty much pat each other on the back for saying it. Not-worthy each other for particularly nasty cuts. Heap abuse on people brave enough to protest.
So the whole strident "How very dare you?" Champions of Compassion routine is pretty unimpressive to me. It comes and goes.
*"Team Hell" being hosts, and "Hellions" being all users of Hell, regardless of status. Just wanted to clarify that.
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
|
Posted
There is a difference between honest exchanges, which I would encourage, and the wearisome omnipresence of the peanut gallery. The latter can fuck the unholy fuck off unless and until they have something relevant or pertinent to say. If you're sitting in your own glass house feel free to throw rocks. Otherwise butt out.
--------------------
Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
|
Posted
For the record, my own black dog has been trying to convince me it's a fluffy, lovely tannish kind of poodle for some little while. I have been pretty much taken in for a little while, and thus getting angry with myself for over-reacting to it. I'm starting to see it for what it is again and get round to evicting it.
--------------------
Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by FooloftheShip:
Otherwise butt out.
And the point is, you can express your desire for someone to do that, but this is the wrong place to demand it.
And my point is-- come on. There has been plenty of times some quivering newbie has stumbled down here and said something out of line and later admitted there was some life issue that provoked their comment, and there is no want of people to rush in and say "This is Hell, crybaby." Next time that happens, y'all put your money where your mouth is.
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by FooloftheShip:
Otherwise butt out.
And the point is, you can express your desire for someone to do that, but this is the wrong place to demand it.
I am under no illusion as to my capacity to demand anything round here. However, the licence to call things as I see them is precious, even if I know that mostly this will fall on wilfully deaf ears. In fact, most of the time I wouldn't have it any other way. I'd be quite frightened if I thought my bloviating on here actually changed anything.
--------------------
Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
Fair enough. (Cross post, BTW)
Any thoughts on the second part of my post?
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Fair enough. (Cross post, BTW)
Any thoughts on the second part of my post?
Sometimes, I think there's a place for a "glasshouse" rule to be evokable in Hell. I'm not sure there's anywhere else where people can sit there and throw rocks at their own and each other's glass houses - it doesn't belong in All Saint's because it's only tangentially setting out to be helpful to anyone other than oneself (assuming it's intended to help anyone at all, of course), and I would hesitate to do so on any other board set up to be helpful for the same reason.
Perhaps this belongs in the Styx, but we've done the whole "styx/hell" thing to death. I'd rather delete than go there again.
--------------------
Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
Yeah. I wasn't suggesting anything policy wise when I said that last. I was just noting the human tendency to bemoan lack of compassion in situations that effect them, but to be blind when they are withholding it themselves.
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Yeah. I wasn't suggesting anything policy wise when I said that last. I was just noting the human tendency to bemoan lack of compassion in situations that effect them, but to be blind when they are withholding it themselves.
I would just add one word. Such bemoaning is actually often a complaint about the compassion they are withholding from themselves. I'm not talking about self-pity, but that actual listening to oneself which, in my experience, is an essential precondition to change. I'm terrible at this myself.
--------------------
Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
|
Posted
So. Am I allowed to respond or do we leave the thread to follow Sioni's example in attempting to make it a FYBD thread cos Patydy's failed to provide a direction (on the request of Organ Builder)?
I'm easy either way.
--------------------
a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
|
Posted
quote:
I'm easy either way.
everyone says so
--------------------
It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
AberVicar
Mornington Star
# 16451
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
So. Am I allowed to respond or do we leave the thread to follow Sioni's example in attempting to make it a FYBD thread cos Patydy's failed to provide a direction (on the request of Organ Builder)?
I'm easy either way.
Why not start a new discussion in Purgatory and leave people to rant here if they need to.
--------------------
Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, make sure you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes.
Posts: 742 | From: Abertillery | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
Are we there yet?
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
So. Am I allowed to respond or do we leave the thread to follow Sioni's example in attempting to make it a FYBD thread cos Patydy's failed to provide a direction
That's right, blame the victim! ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
--------------------
Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
|
Posted
I do find it interesting that, while shipmates are getting upset about a lack of compassion being shown in Hell ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif) , the Black Dog thread in All Saints is languishing on page 2, having not had a single post since this thread started. Obviously nobody feels the need for sympathy and support...
--------------------
"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
|
Posted
So the OPer should've posted in All Saints, not here? ![[Confused]](confused.gif) And those others who have talked about their depression here? Not sure what you mean, JoannaP.
--------------------
Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
I do find it interesting that, while shipmates are getting upset about a lack of compassion being shown in Hell , the Black Dog thread in All Saints is languishing on page 2, having not had a single post since this thread started. Obviously nobody feels the need for sympathy and support...
Sometimes, you just have to scream at it, whether it's your own or someone elses.
AG
--------------------
"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
|
Posted
Sorry for being unclear - I was trying to point out that there is a place for support and sympathy and this is not it. While such things are not unknown in Hell, it is primarily for ranting and screaming, which I agree can be very necessary at times, and not for considering others' feelings.
--------------------
"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
And sometimes managing to work up the energy to scream at the bugger would be progress.
Absolutely! Because to a large extent depression is about directing the negative thoughts at yourself, versus anger which involves directing the negative thoughts externally.
I got through a very difficult period of my life, a bit over a year ago, by ranting and raving and yelling a lot. And frankly the main reason I did it was because I was fairly frightened the situation I was in was going to be an excellent trigger for going back into depression, and I didn't want that to happen, and the best defence I could think of was to keep yelling and not allow the thought that "I was the whole problem" to take hold.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
Why is it wrong to rant in AS? At least there you don't have to worry about interference.
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Why is it wrong to rant in AS? At least there you don't have to worry about interference.
Good point. It certainly shouldn't be. The problems we have seen on this thread are mostly with the converse, ie when people post in Hell what ought best to go in All Saints.
--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Printer-friendly view
