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» Ship of Fools   »   » Oblivion   » Is Auntie Beeb finally growing a pair? Burn in Heck, Clarkson. (Page 1)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: Is Auntie Beeb finally growing a pair? Burn in Heck, Clarkson.
lilBuddha
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# 14333

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Clarkson Suspended.
Don't know why yet, though. But it is long overdue, IMO.
Don't hate the man, but don't like his continued crossing the racism boundaries and being given special dispensation.
This thread would be more appropriate on a Heck board, but not feeling kindly disposed enough for Purg.

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Pyx_e

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Damn beat me to it.

At the risk of wasting more useless internet space on the specious ignoramus I hope that is the end of this sordid episode.

Hubris.

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Sipech
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Clarkson Suspended.
Don't know why yet, though.

The Telegraph are reporting that he tried to punch a producer.

While I deplore Clarkson's views on most things, and violence in general, I will give him the concession that he once punched Piers Morgan. That must be the one item in his "good column".

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Curiosity killed ...

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Top Gear sales around the world, to all 174 territories, have been doing sterling work to support Auntie Beeb in her hour of need - 2013 figures

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Paul.
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...and #bringbackClarkson is already trending on Twitter.

sigh

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lilBuddha
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Coin purse ethics.

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Curiosity killed ...

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I was in the audience before the recording of Any Questions when we were asked for ideas that might improve the BBC. One of the audience suggested getting rid of Clarkson and we were asked for a show of hands. The waving forest only diminished slightly when the financial implications (raised licence fee) were pointed out. The man who suggested it kept arguing his case.

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L'organist
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Maybe Mr Clarksona and Mr Wilman should be given a pair of boxing gloves and invited to settle their differences according to Queensbury Rules?

[ 10. March 2015, 19:55: Message edited by: L'organist ]

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Albertus
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If he did actually try to punch a producer, the BBC will have had to choose between losing Clarkson and facing legal action from the producer, so they've erally had no choice.
Lesson is that the Beeb mustn't get into a position where it becomes so financially dependent on one brand and one presenter.

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Schroedinger's cat

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# 64

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I used to watch and enjoy Top Gear. Not for the last decade, though, because Clarkson has become a parody of himself. He developed a reputation for being a "bit of a lad", and so had to live up to this, and push it further. That seemed to be more important than anything else for a long time.

So I am glad he has been suspended. It doesn't matter how significant he it to the BBC, he should not be allowed to get away with poor behaviour - any more than Jimmy Saville should have been decades ago. If he is too big to fail, there needs to be a realignment, because, as we have found out, that is dangerous.

TBH, I even find the other two presenters are getting tedious too. They are boring and trite, and we should move beyond them.

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Spike

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So let me see if I've got this right. He attempted to hit someone while already on a final warning. Anyone else would have been sacked without notice.

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Piglet
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I can't help feeling really sorry for the people who had tickets for the studio recordings of the rest of the series; there was apparently a waiting-list as long as your arm, and if I'd been one of them, there wouldn't be words to describe how pissed off I'd be.

If he really did try to hit someone, then I suppose the Beeb won't have any choice but to sack him, but it does rather leave his co-hosts (both excellent broadcasters IMHO) in the lurch.

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lilBuddha
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I do not feel sorry for the audience. They are part of feeding his ego and they have ignored his behaviour.
Minimal sorrow for his cohosts as they participate in, and contribute to, the objectionable behaviour.
The only people I might feel sorry for are the crew if it affects their employment.

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Alan Cresswell

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
The only people I might feel sorry for are the crew if it affects their employment.

Not to mention physical, emotional and mental well being if they are in danger of getting punched or otherwise bullied.

Not to mention sometimes having to go to places where relationships with Britain are not great (like, Argentina) accompanying someone with the diplomatic nous of a few tons of hot bricks. I'm surprised he hasn't managed to convince the BBC to sign up the Navy to send a couple of gunboats in with him.

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orfeo

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quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
It doesn't matter how significant he it to the BBC, he should not be allowed to get away with poor behaviour - any more than Jimmy Saville should have been decades ago.

I didn't notice this initially. Kindly don't make this kind of comparison. There is a world of difference between "poor behaviour" in terms of being rude and obnoxious and committing criminal acts.

orfeo
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Lord Jestocost
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quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
If he really did try to hit someone, then I suppose the Beeb won't have any choice but to sack him, but it does rather leave his co-hosts (both excellent broadcasters IMHO) in the lurch.

They could bring back Angela Rippon to fill the vacancy...
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Boogie

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Any number of people could fill the vacancy. I don't know why they pulled the show, they should just have wheeled in another comedian and got on with it.

Let his absence cause not even a ripple.

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Albertus
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quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
So let me see if I've got this right. He attempted to hit someone while already on a final warning. Anyone else would have been sacked without notice.

Quite.
BTW for Uk shipmates at least you can hear Arthur Smith brilliantly demolishing Top Gear at the beginning of this programme.

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orfeo

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^ Can be listened to internationally, in fact. I know that's not always the case but in this case it works.

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quetzalcoatl
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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Any number of people could fill the vacancy. I don't know why they pulled the show, they should just have wheeled in another comedian and got on with it.

Let his absence cause not even a ripple.

I doubt that. If he is sacked, I would think that Sky will immediately hire the three of them, and the Beeb would struggle to replace them. In fact, I bet Sky are already drawing up the contracts.

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Barnabas62
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The problem is that "there's no such thing as bad publicity". I suspect there might be more than a little interest in a reopening on another Channel.

I've never been a fan of Top Gear and won't miss it. But it seems clear that lots of people will. There seems to be a market out there for non-PC "bad boys".

Or maybe it's just "bad boys", regardless of PC-ness?

Getting suspended/sacked by the Beeb hasn't done Russell Brand any harm. I expect Clarkson will prosper, whether or not the Beeb ditches him for good.

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quetzalcoatl
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There have been various clones of Top Gear around the world, and they tend not to work, but I think a lot of this is the chemistry between the three presenters. If C is sacked, it will depend on whether they stick together; possibly they might want to split, but as a unit they will command big bucks. Judging by their tweets, they seem unconcerned.

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Eutychus
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Four of the ten most-read stories on the BBC News website are currently about this.

It epitomises why I hate the media.

Four-tenths of what used to be the benchmark of objective reporting is consumed with a story about... itself. It is stoking both sides of the debate and egging on those petitioning to get the man reinstated as though he were a god, no doubt nurturing a hope that once reinstated some other dirty little (or large) secret will emerge so they can go through a whole new round of finger-pointing, soul-searching, introspection and clickbait.

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quetzalcoatl
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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Four of the ten most-read stories on the BBC News website are currently about this.

It epitomises why I hate the media.

Four-tenths of what used to be the benchmark of objective reporting is consumed with a story about... itself. It is stoking both sides of the debate and egging on those petitioning to get the man reinstated as though he were a god, no doubt nurturing a hope that once reinstated some other dirty little (or large) secret will emerge so they can go through a whole new round of finger-pointing, soul-searching, introspection and clickbait.

Well, I suppose so. But I think there is a place for gossip, bad jokes, and general trash, in the media. We can't be reading analyses of geopolitics all the time.

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Spike

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quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
I can't help feeling really sorry for the people who had tickets for the studio recordings of the rest of the series;

Why? It's not as if they'd paid for the tickets.

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
If he is sacked, I would think that Sky will immediately hire the three of them

You're probably right, but only because Sky have sufficient resources to win the bidding war.

Like it or not, there is a massive audience out there wanting to watch Clarkson et al be laddish, tell off-colour jokes and drive fast cars. Someone is going to provide it for them.

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Albertus
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Fine. But not a public service broadcaster with a mission to educate and inform as well as entertain, thank you.

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Spike

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
If he is sacked, I would think that Sky will immediately hire the three of them

You're probably right, but only because Sky have sufficient resources to win the bidding war.

Like it or not, there is a massive audience out there wanting to watch Clarkson et al be laddish, tell off-colour jokes and drive fast cars. Someone is going to provide it for them.

Bear in mind that the BBC own all the rights to the Top Gear format. If Sky (or any other broadcaster) were to try and copy it they'd have a massive legal battle on their hands.

ETA: As for hiring the other two, that may not happen (at least for a while) as they are probably tied into contracts with the Beeb.

[ 11. March 2015, 12:09: Message edited by: Spike ]

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L'organist
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I agree that Mr Clarkson comes across as overly laddish - which is bad enough in anyone, let alone a man of 53 - but I think that sometimes he is berated for things that either aren't true.

For example, the 'slope' comment was very obviously made about the pitch of the bridge: anyone who says otherwise either hasn't watched the footage or is incapable of following a commentary in plain English.

Similarly, the Porsche car with the so-called Falklands numberplate: that is the registration originally issued to the car by the DVLA when it was imported into the country.

Anyone suggesting that the plate was in any way making a statement about the Falklands conflict is being obtuse - specifically because, as we all know, the Argentinians refer to the islands as Las Malvinas: if Clarkson and crew had wished to upset people they'd have gone for a numberplate with MAL at the end.

The 'eeny-meeny-miny-mo' thing: there are thousands of us out here who were taught the same rhyme because when we were growing up no one thought about it: similarly school libraries were full of books now considered questionable and most children had a golly. It is unfortunate that Mr Clarkson used the original rhyme but hardly a hanging offence.

Whatever the outcome of the latest row, it can't be denied that Mr Clarkson is deemed by many to be a thick, right-wing petrol-head who'd rather be out hunting than sitting down with a book: which may or may not be true but is no good reason for people to call for his banishment from out TV screens.

FWIW I loathe Top Gear and think the format was better when it had Quentin Willson with the reliability surveys - but then I'm an old-fashioned type.

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passer

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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I doubt that. If he is sacked, I would think that Sky will immediately hire the three of them, and the Beeb would struggle to replace them. In fact, I bet Sky are already drawing up the contracts.

That would be Sky, who are owned largely by Murdoch. Who loathes and despises all things BBC because they deny advertising revenue to his TV empire simply by existing. Murdoch who also owns News Corp. Who own the ST and the Sun. For whom Clarkson is a columnist. For whom Guido Fawkes is also a columnist. The Guido Fawkes who started up the on-line petition to retain Clarkson ten minutes after the suspension announcement, thus ensuring a laddish support-base and laying the foundation for what you suggest, quetzalcoatl.

Multi-pronged assault anyone, from a business rival, directed at a competitor (in their eyes) shackled by a funding model necessitating them being all things to all people?

Clarkson (whose programmes I quite enjoy) has a reputation as an arrogant misogynist who is so far up his own ass there isn't room for anyone else to squeeze in. Member of the Chipping Norton set, and friend of the PM, who once appeared on his programme. Imagine what would happen if the BBC didn't discipline him. Like many others, he's a victim of his own persona. I'll miss him if he gets dumped, and hope he doesn't, but he's the author of his own misfortune again.

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Piglet
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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
... For example, the 'slope' comment was very obviously made about the pitch of the bridge ...

Similarly, the Porsche car with the so-called Falklands numberplate: that is the registration originally issued to the car by the DVLA when it was imported into the country ...

The 'eeny-meeny-miny-mo' thing: there are thousands of us out here who were taught the same rhyme because when we were growing up no one thought about it ...

Well said, L'Organist - those were exactly my thoughts when the incidents in question happened. I didn't even know that "slope" was a rude word until JC got into trouble for using it.

If Auntie insists on replacing him, may I suggest Angus Deayton? [Devil]

Or Boris ... [Killing me]

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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TBH it's his irresponsible attitudes towards road safety and the environment that bother me the most. The former especially when some shit for brains ignoramus shouts "pay your fucking road tax!" as he overtakes my bike far too close.

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Boogie

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I still think that the BBC should have suspended him but made sure the show went on as usual.

He's soon be forgotten if they put someone like Chris Evans in his place.

By cancelling the next couple of programmes they've left things wide open for negotiation. If Mr C had been taken ill I bet the show would have gone on.

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Spike

Mostly Harmless
# 36

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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
For example, the 'slope' comment was very obviously made about the pitch of the bridge: anyone who says otherwise either hasn't watched the footage or is incapable of following a commentary in plain English.


Yes. the comment was probably made referring to the pitch of the bridge and later the footage was edited to show a lone Asian bloke standing on the bridge. Clarkson probably wasn't personally responsible for the edit, but I'd be surprised if he wasn't aware of it.
quote:

Similarly, the Porsche car with the so-called Falklands numberplate: that is the registration originally issued to the car by the DVLA when it was imported into the country.

Anyone suggesting that the plate was in any way making a statement about the Falklands conflict is being obtuse - specifically because, as we all know, the Argentinians refer to the islands as Las Malvinas: if Clarkson and crew had wished to upset people they'd have gone for a numberplate with MAL at the end.


Maybe it was a coincidence. Maybe it was also a coincidence in the episode where they has great hilarity about the fact that he was driving a car where the registration plate was an anagram of C**T and that the one James May was driving was an anagram of GOSH.

It's interesting that after the Argentina incident, he tweeted "... for once we did nothing wrong". This, to me, implies that he was admitting that all the previous faux pax that he claimed were innocent were, in fact, deliberate
quote:

The 'eeny-meeny-miny-mo' thing: there are thousands of us out here who were taught the same rhyme because when we were growing up no one thought about it: similarly school libraries were full of books now considered questionable and most children had a golly. It is unfortunate that Mr Clarkson used the original rhyme but hardly a hanging offence.


Taken in isolation it may not seem such a big thing, but add it to his comments about black Muslim lesbians, the one eyed Scottish idiot, his joke that all Mexicans are lazy or comparing modern day Germans to the Third Reich. All of them individually taken in isolation don't amount to much, but add them all up ...
quote:

Whatever the outcome of the latest row, it can't be denied that Mr Clarkson is deemed by many to be a thick, right-wing petrol-head who'd rather be out hunting than sitting down with a book:


I don't think he's thick. The rest of it is about right though.
quote:

which may or may not be true but is no good reason for people to call for his banishment from out TV screens.

Maybe not. Assaulting a colleague for delivering his sandwiches late seems a pretty good reason though.

[ 11. March 2015, 13:41: Message edited by: Spike ]

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Albertus
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# 13356

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I think William Woollard's still about, isn't he? Perhaps he might like the gig if Angela Rippon isn't available.

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Callan
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Originally posted by l'organist:

quote:
The 'eeny-meeny-miny-mo' thing: there are thousands of us out here who were taught the same rhyme because when we were growing up no one thought about it: similarly school libraries were full of books now considered questionable and most children had a golly. It is unfortunate that Mr Clarkson used the original rhyme but hardly a hanging offence.
Ah yes, those roseate days of innocence when we used racist epithets as part of a nursery rhyme.

The man is supposed to be a television presenter, for crying out loud. If we were talking about an elderly good hearted senior citizen who had inadvertently referred to, say, Lenny Henry as a coloured gentleman i might have some sympathy but, really, a professional television presenter who is paid a shit load of money for his job not thinking "Do you know, as this is being recorded, I'm going to do what every seven year old in the country now does and use the term 'Vicar' instead". How much sympathy did you have with Gordon Brown when he was rude about Gillian Duffy on air? Exactly. The racism is quite bad enough but when you make Nicola Murray look like Angela fucking Merkel in the old not being an utter halfwit stakes you clearly need to have a quiet word with yourself.

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quetzalcoatl
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# 16740

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I don't think he's thick, certainly. He's constructed a persona which appears to be popular; and the three of them are rather like licensed fools. I do doubt that the chemistry would work, with a replacement, or whether the other two would cooperate.

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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Dunno, that's what they said when Angus Deyton was sacked.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Albertus
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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I don't think he's thick, certainly. He's constructed a persona which appears to be popular; and the three of them are rather like licensed fools. I do doubt that the chemistry would work, with a replacement, or whether the other two would cooperate.

Suppose Clarkson had been killed in a car crash. Would the Beeb then say that it was time to wind up the show, or would they try to find a replacement, assuming Hammond and May (a - to me- surprisingly cultured and thoughtful man, BTW) were up for it? My money'd be firmly on the latter.
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orfeo

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# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
The man is supposed to be a television presenter, for crying out loud. If we were talking about an elderly good hearted senior citizen who had inadvertently referred to, say, Lenny Henry as a coloured gentleman i might have some sympathy but, really, a professional television presenter who is paid a shit load of money for his job not thinking "Do you know, as this is being recorded, I'm going to do what every seven year old in the country now does and use the term 'Vicar' instead".

You seem to be confusing "as this is being recorded" with "as this is being broadcast".

Also, I'm always fascinated by this argument that being in the spotlight - television personality, sports star - suddenly makes it necessary for you to be a perfect human being. Seriously, it gets to the stage where Jesus might struggle with his actions being perceived in a certain light.

I do think that there are some things that Clarkson has done which he should answer for, but it always seemed to me that the nursery rhyme incident was ridiculously overinflated, not least because he self-corrected!

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orfeo

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quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
It's interesting that after the Argentina incident, he tweeted "... for once we did nothing wrong". This, to me, implies that he was admitting that all the previous faux pax that he claimed were innocent were, in fact, deliberate

Or he could just be making an ironic joke.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I don't think he's thick, certainly. He's constructed a persona which appears to be popular; and the three of them are rather like licensed fools. I do doubt that the chemistry would work, with a replacement, or whether the other two would cooperate.

Like an ugly, low-rent Boris Johnson?

Few thought "I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue" would survive without Chairman Humph, but Jack Dee does a decent job. Top Gear won't be the same without Clarkson, and the yob element would decry any changes, but it could survive. I'd get a genuine motoring journalist in to contrast with the personalities.

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quetzalcoatl
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I just read May's reply, when a journo asked, is Clarkson guilty? May said, without a beat, yes, of being a knob. I that captures some of their appeal, well I laughed.

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Pyx_e

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After much thought as to why the man vexes me so much and why I have spent all day expectantly watching the digital media pick at crumbs (which is very unlike me) I can honestly say it is not because he is a twonk who dabbles in feckless misogyny and racism.

It is because he is a Trojan horse for his right wing entitled buddies. While he may not openly tickle Murdoch's balls for money he does privately and laughs at those who slavishly adore him while he manipulates them for whatever whim takes his master's fancy.

He is a meretricious capitalist fop. I want to sign a petition to keep him on the isle of man for the next 40 years

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Siegfried
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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:

The 'eeny-meeny-miny-mo' thing: there are thousands of us out here who were taught the same rhyme because when we were growing up no one thought about it: similarly school libraries were full of books now considered questionable and most children had a golly. It is unfortunate that Mr Clarkson used the original rhyme but hardly a hanging offence.

I'm 51 and, I have to say, that I'd NEVER heard the "n****r" version growing up--it was always "tiger". Perhaps sensitivity to that particular epithet was later coming in the UK than in the western US? Either way, he's an absolute idiot to have used it NOW.

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Siegfried
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quetzalcoatl
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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I don't think he's thick, certainly. He's constructed a persona which appears to be popular; and the three of them are rather like licensed fools. I do doubt that the chemistry would work, with a replacement, or whether the other two would cooperate.

Like an ugly, low-rent Boris Johnson?

Few thought "I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue" would survive without Chairman Humph, but Jack Dee does a decent job. Top Gear won't be the same without Clarkson, and the yob element would decry any changes, but it could survive. I'd get a genuine motoring journalist in to contrast with the personalities.

Interesting point about Boris. You could see Clarkson as an actor, who plays a character called Clarkson. But this time it's the actor, who's in trouble, whereas usually it's the character - unless this itself has been set up. It's all too Brechtian for me.

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Nicolemr
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I agree with Siegfried. I'm 53 and I never heard anything but "tiger" in that rhyme until I was an adult and read about it.

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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!

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quetzalcoatl
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A friend just said to me that the best thing about TG is that it's very silly, and I thought that's quite perceptive. Clarkson on his own is not my cup of tea, but the three of them do tickle my tickling stick; they are also reasonably tasteless, which again appeals to me.

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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
Originally posted by l'organist:

quote:
The 'eeny-meeny-miny-mo' thing: there are thousands of us out here who were taught the same rhyme because when we were growing up no one thought about it: similarly school libraries were full of books now considered questionable and most children had a golly. It is unfortunate that Mr Clarkson used the original rhyme but hardly a hanging offence.
Ah yes, those roseate days of innocence when we used racist epithets as part of a nursery rhyme.

The man is supposed to be a television presenter, for crying out loud. If we were talking about an elderly good hearted senior citizen who had inadvertently referred to, say, Lenny Henry as a coloured gentleman i might have some sympathy but, really, a professional television presenter who is paid a shit load of money for his job not thinking "Do you know, as this is being recorded, I'm going to do what every seven year old in the country now does and use the term 'Vicar' instead".

If he'd said it once and caught himself, there might be an excuse. He said it at least 4 times and had the presence of mind to lower his voice and mumble. How many brain cells does it take to connect and realise you can substitute the word or use a different rhyme?
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As to the slope comment, it is not obvious he meant the bridge. It is not obvious he meant the man either. It is simply not obvious which he meant. But given his history.....
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quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
I can honestly say it is not because he is a twonk who dabbles in feckless misogyny and racism.

Hmmm, good enough reason for me.
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:

It is because he is a Trojan horse for his right wing entitled buddies. While he may not openly tickle Murdoch's balls for money he does privately and laughs at those who slavishly adore him while he manipulates them for whatever whim takes his master's fancy.

Just adds more reason.
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:

He is a meretricious capitalist fop. I want to sign a petition to keep him on the isle of man for the next 40 years

What have you against the Isle of Man?

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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

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Albertus
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# 13356

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Not Isle of Man- Sark- no cars there!
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