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» Ship of Fools   »   » Oblivion   » Is Auntie Beeb finally growing a pair? Burn in Heck, Clarkson. (Page 4)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: Is Auntie Beeb finally growing a pair? Burn in Heck, Clarkson.
Callan
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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by mark_in_manchester:
I suggest wk 1, Nigel Farrage; wk2, Boris Johnson.

Is it possible to make sure they test drive some ridiculously over-powered sports car and have some form of nasty accident? Now, don't get me wrong - not something fatal, or that wrecks an expensive toy - I think shitting themselves, with May and Hammond making sure it's mentioned every conceivable opportunity through the rest of the programme, would suffice.
Only if they have Salmond on the same terms on week three.

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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton

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orfeo

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One of my favourite comedic writers has a somewhat different perspective.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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QLib

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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Clarkson: it now transpires there was no hot food catering on set and Mr C complained about that on behalf of the crew as well as himself. He was calmed down with the promise of hot food at the end of the filming.

Then arrived to find no hot food available at the hotel, which is in the middle of the North York Moors National Park - in other words, in the middle of nowhere when it comes to finding food at 9.30 in the evening. The hotel brasserie stops serving at 8.45pm in the evening so any BBC employee who offered food after filming must have known it was a non-starter (sorry about the pun).

And it wasn't a punch - it was an 'air-punch' which is a bit like an air-kiss but without the pucker.

So: no one hurt but lots of people not fed.

NOW who says Mr C should go?

There are some very different versions out there, suggesting the presenters were drinking late rather than working late and allegedly alleging that the alleged victim needed treatment in A+E for a split lip. And that he's taking legal advice.

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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.

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Eutychus
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quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
The Guardian has an article about how the Beeb treated the journalists who came up with the news stories on [another prominent BBC figure]

Whilst bearing in mind the hostly warning following that post, I think there's an important point here.

It's never a good thing when within an institution, individuals have such a perceived influence for good (in terms of revenue, star value, or whatever) that they essentially acquire total immunity.

It's not a good thing for the individual, because it leaves them free to behave badly, potentially harm others, and get away with it.

And it's not a good thing for the institution, because even constructive critics from within are ostracised (as is alleged in the article Moo links to), so it loses the checks and balances that prevent it from losing touch with reality and becoming toxic.

Clarkson should be held to the same standards as anyone else at the BBC. If he's not, it would appear they have learned nothing of value from their own recent history.

The similarity with that recent history is not the misdeeds involved but the institutional failure to hold properly to account.

And there is a big lesson, not often learned, for churches and other Christian institutions here, too.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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Palimpsest
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I've never seen Top Gear and am unaware of the details. But in the web noise around this it was pointed out that Clarkson owns 50 percent of the show and it produces a great deal of global revenue for the BBC.

They may not be able to replace him on the show. They could get rid of the show, but that would be a major revenue loss for the BBC and it would probably be picked up by another British network.

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Alan Cresswell

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We covered Clarkson's stake in the show here where it was concluded, on the basis of media reporting, that BBC Worldwide bought him out in 2013 and now have full rights to the show.

So, if he's given the push from the BBC, Clarkson can go to Sky (or A N Other broadcaster) and produce a car-based TV show. But, he wouldn't be able to use the name "Top Gear" or many of the features of the BBC show - no "mystery" racing driver, no stars in a reasonable price car. At least, not without someone paying BBC Worldwide a hefty load of cash to buy the rights.

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

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betjemaniac
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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
We covered Clarkson's stake in the show here where it was concluded, on the basis of media reporting, that BBC Worldwide bought him out in 2013 and now have full rights to the show.

So, if he's given the push from the BBC, Clarkson can go to Sky (or A N Other broadcaster) and produce a car-based TV show. But, he wouldn't be able to use the name "Top Gear" or many of the features of the BBC show - no "mystery" racing driver, no stars in a reasonable price car. At least, not without someone paying BBC Worldwide a hefty load of cash to buy the rights.

Hmmm. Although it occurs to me that one of the noticeable things about this debate has been the number of people saying TG was a tired format a couple of years past its sell by date.

If you were really cynical, given that JC's contract is up this year anyway, you'd say that this was the perfect opportunity to go to another channel, reinvent things from the bottom up (on the pretext that you're Not Allowed to do certain things) and take most of your audience with you.

I think the BBC is only going to lose here unfortunately.

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And is it true? For if it is....

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Piglet
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quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
... I think the BBC is only going to lose here unfortunately.

It looks as if they already are losing - apparently 4½ million viewers in the slot where TG should have been on Sunday night.

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

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Ariel
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# 58

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He's still down to be a host on "Have I Got News For You".
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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
He's still down to be a host on "Have I Got News For You".

I expect there will be stacks of jokes about whether his dinner will be ready after the show.

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Darllenwr
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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
He's still down to be a host on "Have I Got News For You".

I expect there will be stacks of jokes about whether his dinner will be ready after the show.
You might note that the BBC do not produce "Have I got news for you" themselves - they buy it in from, I think, Hat Trick; an independent company. Who they chose to host their programs is their problem, not the BBC's, though the BBC may decide not to screen the episode with Clarkson as host.

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Piglet
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According to the Telegraph Messrs. May and Hammond aren't happy about the idea of TG without JC. I can see their point: the show certainly wouldn't be the same without the chemistry of all three.

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
According to the Telegraph Messrs. May and Hammond aren't happy about the idea of TG without JC. I can see their point: the show certainly wouldn't be the same without the chemistry of all three.

I understand them (and their agents). Would we have heard of Hammond and May had they not joined Top Gear?
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Piglet
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Possibly not; I suppose Richard Hammond might have eventually turned up in one of the other shows he does, either for British TV or some of the stuff we get over here, like The Science of Stupid.

I could imagine James May being a kind of successor to the likes of James Burke, doing science/history/generally quirky documentaries (which sadly didn't cross the Pond) like the space one and the one where he built a full-size Lego house. Whether they would have happened without his having made his name with TG is anyone's guess.

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Would we have heard of Hammond and May had they not joined Top Gear?

Or, indeed Clarkson himself.

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

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Tubbs

Miss Congeniality
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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Would we have heard of Hammond and May had they not joined Top Gear?

Or, indeed Clarkson himself.
Wasn't Clarkson a journalist before TG? He'd probably be writing similar stuff to Richard Littlejohn somewhere. (Not linking to the Daily Mail thank you! Littlejohn gets enough publicity without my help!)

I suspect that they'd all be doing something in the media industry, just maybe not at the level they're at now. TG works because of the format, the subject and the chemistry between the three of them. And it's given all of them a springboard to do other things. It's possible that one of them may have lucked out and found something else to give them that if TG hadn't happened, but all three?! Together?! Nah!

Kudos to Hammond and May for refusing to do it. Given that if the whole thing does go wrong, neither of them are as big a deal as Clarkson on their own.

Hopefully the whole thing will be resolved soon one way or another.

It's actually the producer I feel most sorry for. If understand it, he's a jobbing producer who goes from contract to contract rather than a paid employee of the BBC. I can't imagine this doing his career any good!

Tubbs

[ 20. March 2015, 12:17: Message edited by: Tubbs ]

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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am

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Alan Cresswell

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quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
Wasn't Clarkson a journalist before TG?

Yep, doing car reviews for some motoring magazine or the other.

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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Tubbs, I like you. So don't take this as an attack on you. But fuck Hammond and May for the same reasons I say Fuck Clarkson. They are complicit and, in Hammond's case at least, participatory.
The only reason this is being dragged along as far as it has is money. Primrose path.

[ 20. March 2015, 17:41: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

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Hallellou, hallellou

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L'organist
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# 17338

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The Stig took to a tank to deliver the petition (with more than 1,000,000 names) to the BBC demanding that Mr Clarkson not be sacked.

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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Albertus
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...thereby ensuring that the BBC cannot now not sack him without looking like they have cravenly caved in to a populist backlash.

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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.

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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
The Stig took to a tank to deliver the petition (with more than 1,000,000 names) to the BBC demanding that Mr Clarkson not be sacked.

Proof positive people suck.

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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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It's more like proof positive that not everyone has the same opinion. It's true, occasionally I find difference of opinion enough to conclude that people DO suck, but you really want to make Jeremy Clarkson being sacked the basis of your moral dividing line?

I mean, he's no Natalia Kills.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
It's more like proof positive that not everyone has the same opinion. It's true, occasionally I find difference of opinion enough to conclude that people DO suck, but you really want to make Jeremy Clarkson being sacked the basis of your moral dividing line?

No. I would see him sacked because he violated BBC policy and would have been sacked if he were anyone else.

And I think people suck because 1,000,000 of them signed a petition for a filthy rich entertainer who knowingly put himself into the position he is in. I doubt very many of them would be arsed to help those truly in need.
And they suck because the entertainer they wish to help perpetuates the casual racism under the cover of which more serious racism flourishes.
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:

I mean, he's no Natalia Kills.

She is a piece of work. Her and her no single piece of originality cover band tool of a husband.

[ 22. March 2015, 01:22: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
And I think people suck because 1,000,000 of them signed a petition for a filthy rich entertainer who knowingly put himself into the position he is in. I doubt very many of them would be arsed to help those truly in need.

They're not even helping Clarkson. They're helping themselves. He is, as you said, an entertainer. And they find him entertaining, and they want to be entertained.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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lilBuddha
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Doesn't make them suck less. Just the opposite

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Hallellou, hallellou

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Anglican't
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
No. I would see him sacked because he violated BBC policy and would have been sacked if he were anyone else.

There does seem to be a bit of uncertainty as to what actually happened. Was a punch thrown? Was a punch landed? Was there blood? Was Clarkson finally placated by a steak sandwich or was it a cold meat platter?

Hopefully the BBC investigation will give us some facts as well as a decision.

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deano
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Doesn't make them suck less. Just the opposite

Funny. I remember growing out of assuming people "suck" because they don't like the same things as me when I discovered diversity was a reasonably good thing.

[ 22. March 2015, 13:56: Message edited by: deano ]

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lilBuddha
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So, racism is a difference of opinion? Not incredibly shocked that you would think so.

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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Doesn't make them suck less. Just the opposite

Funny. I remember growing out of assuming people "suck" because they don't like the same things as me when I discovered diversity was a reasonably good thing.
When will that be, I wonder?

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(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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deano
princess
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
So, racism is a difference of opinion? Not incredibly shocked that you would think so.

Of course it does depend on whether the racism is really racism, given the number of people who self-generate false positives constantly, usually driven by Guardian or Independent editorials.

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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

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RooK

1 of 6
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Clue: they are referring to you.

Could you do us all a favour and start a new Hell thread explaining why we're all mistaken for assuming that your blatantly racist posts correlate to you being a racist? It just seems more expedient.

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Wet Kipper
Circus Runaway
# 1654

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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
The Stig took to a tank to deliver the petition (with more than 1,000,000 names) to the BBC demanding that Mr Clarkson not be sacked.

Not quite
It was someone in a fencing suit and a fake racing helmet made to look like the Stig™ as a publicity stunt for their petition

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deano
princess
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quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
Clue: they are referring to you.

Could you do us all a favour and start a new Hell thread explaining why we're all mistaken for assuming that your blatantly racist posts correlate to you being a racist? It just seems more expedient.

Well I would like evidence of this so-called racism.

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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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Well, I would like to know what you meant by this.

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Well I would like evidence of this so-called racism.

Thank God I read that while my tea was brewing, instead of while drinking it.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Tubbs

Miss Congeniality
# 440

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Tubbs, I like you. So don't take this as an attack on you. But fuck Hammond and May for the same reasons I say Fuck Clarkson. They are complicit and, in Hammond's case at least, participatory.
The only reason this is being dragged along as far as it has is money. Primrose path.

I didn't. You're disagreeing with me. In Hell. [Help]

I'm crediting them both with a degree of loyalty to someone they've worked with for a number of years. But you could be right and they're just following the money. I'm slightly confused about Hammond being a participant. What do you mean by that?

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Well I would like evidence of this so-called racism.

Thank God I read that while my tea was brewing, instead of while drinking it.
I was eating my lunch. I was so amazed by that comment, missed my mouth and poked myself in the face with my own fork!

Tubbs

[ 23. March 2015, 12:24: Message edited by: Tubbs ]

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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am

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deano
princess
# 12063

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Come on then... List them.

Alan. I don't like muslims. I don't have to except so far as the law dictates. But muslims are NOT a race. Many different races follow islam. It is something, but it isn't racism.

False positive number one.

Bring 'em on. Find me a genuine piece of racism. You know, as pertaining to denigrating a RACE.

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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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It doesn't matter. The 2010 Equality Act makes discrimination on cultural or religious grounds iillegal as it already was on grounds of race, ethnicity or nationality.

I suppose that makes me bad for my opinions about golfers.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Come on then... List them.

Alan. I don't like muslims. I don't have to except so far as the law di ctates. But muslims are NOT a race. Many different races follow islam. It is something, but it isn't racism.

False positive number one.

Bring 'em on. Find me a genuine piece of racism. You know, as pertaining to denigrating a RACE.

That's a bit like saying you don't like Jews but you're not antisemitic. It is amazing how much time people don't spend worrying aboit caucasian muslims.

Also, define race - it has no biological basis so what are going with colour, culture or nationality ?

[ 23. March 2015, 14:03: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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Tubbs,

Hammond made the comments about Mexicans which gave the show trouble. And, looking at it again, May was also a participant.

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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
deano
princess
# 12063

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
It doesn't matter. The 2010 Equality Act makes discrimination on cultural or religious grounds iillegal as it already was on grounds of race, ethnicity or nationality.

I suppose that makes me bad for my opinions about golfers.

So as long as I don't discriminate....

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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
deano
princess
# 12063

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quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Come on then... List them.

Alan. I don't like muslims. I don't have to except so far as the law di ctates. But muslims are NOT a race. Many different races follow islam. It is something, but it isn't racism.

False positive number one.

Bring 'em on. Find me a genuine piece of racism. You know, as pertaining to denigrating a RACE.

That's a bit like saying you don't like Jews but you're not antisemitic. It is amazing how much time people don't spend worrying aboit caucasian muslims.

Also, define race - it has no biological basis so what are going with colour, culture or nationality ?

I don't have to define race. Maybe if some of the others who generate false-positives had a good look though they might be less bothersome in the real world.

And as far as I know there are muslims in all races. Your analogy is arse-about-face.

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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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Deano, I remember criticising you quite heavily precisely because you failed to recognise there were white European Muslims, especially in Albania and Bosnia. And treated Jesus like he was a blonde blue eyed English lad.

I for one am not going to bother playing link hockey, because you'll either have a smart Alec answer or ignore any that are too inconvenient.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Tubbs

Miss Congeniality
# 440

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Tubbs,

Hammond made the comments about Mexicans which gave the show trouble. And, looking at it again, May was also a participant.

Thanks for clarifying. I got confused and thought you were implying that Hammond and May were involved in the incident with the producer. But you're not wrong, they're each as bad as the other in some ways.

Tubbs

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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am

Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
It doesn't matter. The 2010 Equality Act makes discrimination on cultural or religious grounds iillegal as it already was on grounds of race, ethnicity or nationality.

I suppose that makes me bad for my opinions about golfers.

So as long as I don't discriminate....
...you're legal, but still a prejudiced bigoted arsehole.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
deano
princess
# 12063

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Deano, I remember criticising you quite heavily precisely because you failed to recognise there were white European Muslims, especially in Albania and Bosnia. PAnd treated Jesus like he was a blonde blue eyed English lad.

I for one am not going to bother playing link hockey, because you'll either have a smart Alec answer or ignore any that are too inconvenient.

That may have been how it played out in your mind, but the reality was quite different. I'm sure you will post something to prove me wrong though. I wait with baited breath.

[ 23. March 2015, 16:35: Message edited by: deano ]

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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
deano
princess
# 12063

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
It doesn't matter. The 2010 Equality Act makes discrimination on cultural or religious grounds iillegal as it already was on grounds of race, ethnicity or nationality.

I suppose that makes me bad for my opinions about golfers.

So as long as I don't discriminate....
...you're legal, but still a prejudiced bigoted arsehole.
Good, good. As long as I'm legal. I would hate to break the law. If I did I might have to emigrate, perhaps... Syria?

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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520

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Great line. Very logical, funny, and exposes the hypocrisy of everyone else all at once. Very deanoluded.

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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon

Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Spike

Mostly Harmless
# 36

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Deano, I remember criticising you quite heavily precisely because you failed to recognise there were white European Muslims, especially in Albania and Bosnia. PAnd treated Jesus like he was a blonde blue eyed English lad.

I for one am not going to bother playing link hockey, because you'll either have a smart Alec answer or ignore any that are too inconvenient.

That may have been how it played out in your mind, but the reality was quite different. I'm sure you will post something to prove me wrong though. I wait with baited breath.
Well, this post sort of implies that all Muslims are non-white

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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing

Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
deano
princess
# 12063

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quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Deano, I remember criticising you quite heavily precisely because you failed to recognise there were white European Muslims, especially in Albania and Bosnia. PAnd treated Jesus like he was a blonde blue eyed English lad.

I for one am not going to bother playing link hockey, because you'll either have a smart Alec answer or ignore any that are too inconvenient.

That may have been how it played out in your mind, but the reality was quite different. I'm sure you will post something to prove me wrong though. I wait with baited breath.
Well, this post sort of implies that all Muslims are non-white
No it doesn't. It implies that some muslims in some parts of English towns are themselves incredibly racist.

False-positive two.

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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged



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