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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Motoring Git of the Year Award 2015
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
The way that the law has been enforced encourages drivers to downplay the possibility of being undertaken - unlike in other jurisdictions where undertaking is a much more common manoeuvre.
Ok, that makes sense.
quote:
Not sure I'm following here
What I meant (and I might have made this up) is that I thought the law was set up this way so that, if there has to be a slower lane, it's the lane that people enter and exit by.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
BT, no. 3. Me, too. Until recently, they were always male. Now there are female drivers of SUVs as well. But I've only once met a man who reversed.
[ 19. October 2015, 15:18: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
.. and there are people who drive the wrong way down motorways and slip roads. Few things more terrifying on a motorway than suddenly being confronted with a car coming head on at you.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
BT, no. 3. Me, too. Until recently, they were always male. Now there are female drivers of SUVs as well. But I've only once met a man who reversed.
Did I say SUVs? No. But I certainly thought it!
Farmers driving battered old Mk.1 Land-Rovers give way. (It might be their tractor you meet next time!)
[ 19. October 2015, 16:45: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Chapelhead
I am
# 21
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
And would someone please explain to townees that in the countryside we dip our lights when facing oncoming traffic after dark, and when there is another car in front: I prefer not to be half-blinded, thanks very much.
Ah, people who seem confused by the idea that in the country, at night, it gets dark.
It's not all bad news for them, though. Every now and again there is a village, with a few streetlamps, and having a bit of light makes it easier to drive faster. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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At times like this I find myself thinking, what would the Amish do?
Posts: 9123 | From: Near where I was before. | Registered: Aug 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
BT, no. 3. Me, too. Until recently, they were always male. Now there are female drivers of SUVs as well. But I've only once met a man who reversed.
Stacks of them. Between SUVs and "people carriers" half the children at the typical primary school, even in a down-at-heel place like Zooport, are ferried back and forth.
Most schools were not built with the car in mind, and one school I was associated with, as parent and governor, was rebuilt this century with deliberately poor vehicular access. Somewhere in our Civic Centre there must be some a planning officer who deserves a "Best Motoring Git in a Supporting Role" award.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Farmers driving battered old Mk.1 Land-Rovers give way. (It might be their tractor you meet next time!)
They are pretty good and if they aren't there's usually good reason (sick cow etc). It's best to give way to farmers though. You never know when you might need a tow.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
I'm going back about 6 or 7 years here, but that's because this is my award for Motoring Git of the Century.
So there I was, on my way to a funeral. Not in my own car - in the hearse, with a funeral limo full of mourners just behind us, doing the standard 15-20mph.
And my award goes to the bus driver who overtook the limo and the hearse, on a suburban road, and cut in front of the hearse with literally inches to spare.
Hearses should not have to brake hard to avoid crashing into dickheads.
[ 19. October 2015, 18:41: Message edited by: Adeodatus ]
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
BT, no. 3. Me, too. Until recently, they were always male. Now there are female drivers of SUVs as well. But I've only once met a man who reversed.
Did I say SUVs? No. But I certainly thought it!
Farmers driving battered old Mk.1 Land-Rovers give way. (It might be their tractor you meet next time!)
Guess what the man who gave way was driving, and his occupation...
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
And would someone please explain to townees that in the countryside we dip our lights when facing oncoming traffic after dark, and when there is another car in front: I prefer not to be half-blinded, thanks very much.
Ah, people who seem confused by the idea that in the country, at night, it gets dark.
One must not of course forget their close relatives, who buy those 'super-bright' headlights because they makes them easier to see at night.
Well, yes, they do, if you assume there's nothing else on the road that people might want to see.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
It might be an idea if the car manufacturers had three settings for the headlights, dipped, normal, and full beam. My dipped lights are fine in town, but only illuminate a shortish range where there are no street lights, not really enough for the normal speed on the road, and definitely not helpful when there are approaching vehicles, even if they don't have flaming LEDs. This may explain why some people do forget to dip. Especially when behind.
Another worst bit of driving was when I was driving south on a dual carriageway with two lanes each side. I came up behind what was effectively a road train, a string of film location lorries driving nose to tail with no gaps, slower than the speed limit. It was not them who were the problem, though. Eventually here was an opportunity to get past, the outer lane clear all the way past them, no-one approaching from behind, so I took off, at the speed limit. When I was about halfway along, A car appeared behind me, headlights flashing, and hooting. It should have been perfectly obvious that I had nowhere to get out of the way. It took great determination not to be driven over the limit. When I got past and was able to move in, without cutting in too sharply, the car stormed past and took off furiously up the road, possibly with gestures, revealing the sign in the back. "Children on board".
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Presumably in the driving seat?
On headlights: I appreciate the problem. Have you ever tried adjusting the dip? - there's usually a little knob for doing that somewhere on the dashboard unless your car is ancient. The idea is that the dip you need is different according the load you are carrying. Of course you can't keep changing it while driving.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Lord Jestocost
Shipmate
# 12909
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Posted
Has no one mentioned double overtakers? Those times when you're the first car in a queue of traffic pootling along behind a tractor or bus or just your typical one-slow-speed-fits-all bandit; you're poised to overtake as soon as you can; finally your chance comes up thanks to a slightly wider road or a break in the oncoming traffic - and some pillock from two or three cars behind decides to roar up and take the chance instead. And by the time they've got past, the brief opportunity to overtake has passed.
Hanging's too good for them.
Posts: 761 | From: The Instrumentality of Man | Registered: Aug 2007
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Even more annoying when not only do they block you from overtaking, but they find themselves faced with oncoming traffic and force their way in front of you behind the [insert choice of slow vehicle]. At least if they get passed they're on the road a long way ahead out of your way. If they're now stuck in front of you you have to watch them keep poking themselves into the right lane to see if it's clear, and ducking back in quickly, because they won't open up more than an inch between themselves and the vehicle they're behind thus depriving themselves of the ability to actually see passed it.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Having said that, there is something deeply satisfying when someone does that and the slow vehicle pulls over 30 seconds later and you meet up with said eedjut stopped at the next set of traffic lights.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Thinking of getting stopped at traffic lights.
A couple of years back I was doing some work in Portugal, and since we were in Landrovers stuffed full of geologists and their sampling kit (and later on rocks they'd collected) we were never going to manage speeds suitable to the main roads so we avoided them (and the associated tolls) in favour of smaller roads. There seemed to be an extravagent number of traffic lights, often pedestrian crossings in the middle of nowhere. Commenting on this I was told that when local authorities put up speed cameras issuing automated tickets no one paid them, and as speeding wasn't a criminal offence the courts didn't enforce the speeding tickets. However, jumping a red light is a criminal offence that the courts could pursue. So, they stopped issuing speeding tickets from the cameras, instead if they record someone speeding they set the next set of traffic lights to red - and, where there wasn't a suitable set of lights they put some in. Add some cameras to record anyone jumping the lights, and hey presto a very effective speed control system.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I do like that sort of thinking!
And I have adjusted the beam by the lever which is supposed to accommodate different loads. I have also asked the garage about it, but it is, apparently, standard for Skodas.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
When I was about halfway along, A car appeared behind me, headlights flashing, and hooting. It should have been perfectly obvious that I had nowhere to get out of the way. It took great determination not to be driven over the limit.
I believe if you're being tailgated, the best option is actually to slow down gradually - not just to piss them off, but also because:
- It increases the space in front of you into which they can overtake, if they want (though not in your case obviously);
- Provided they keep the same physical distance, the stopping distance becomes safer (e.g. if you're keeping a one-second gap at 70 and I slow to 45, in theory that becomes a two-second gap - Ok the maths isn't that simple and I don't think I'd decelerate that much but you see the point.)
- If the guy behind wants to drive in a way that will greatly increase the chance of a collision, it's better to collide at a lower speed.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Jestocost:
finally your chance comes up thanks to a slightly wider road or a break in the oncoming traffic - and some pillock from two or three cars behind decides to roar up and take the chance instead. And by the time they've got past, the brief opportunity to overtake has passed.
Except the "pillock" doesn't know if you're stuck behind Mr. Slow, or you're Mr. Slow's best buddy and doing it on purpose. All he knows is that you've passed the point where he considers it safe to overtake, and have made no move to overtake - so maybe it's not unreasonable for him to assume that you weren't going to.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Driving his tractor down a snowy country lane one day, my brother had a driver on his arse who was hooting, flashing, and generally expressing the view that said tractor should get out of his way. Finally he lost patience, overtook, and only then found out why my brother was driving a tractor.
It had the snowplough on the front.
Luckily there was a tractor conveniently placed to pull him out of the ditch. Once its driver had stopped laughing.
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Rev per Minute
Shipmate
# 69
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
BT, no. 3. Me, too. Until recently, they were always male. Now there are female drivers of SUVs as well. But I've only once met a man who reversed.
Stacks of them. Between SUVs and "people carriers" half the children at the typical primary school, even in a down-at-heel place like Zooport, are ferried back and forth.
Most schools were not built with the car in mind, and one school I was associated with, as parent and governor, was rebuilt this century with deliberately poor vehicular access. Somewhere in our Civic Centre there must be some a planning officer who deserves a "Best Motoring Git in a Supporting Role" award.
Now, now, Sioni, you know that everyone at the Civic Centre has the best interests of all the people of Newport at heart... And 'down-at-heel', indeed! ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
My favourite was over 20 years ago on the A606 outside Nottingham. Single carriageway approaching traffic lights with 'islands' separating traffic at the lights, 40mph limit. Car behind decides to overtake just before we reach the lights but runs out of room and clips the island when pulling back into the lane. We stop for the lights and, once they changed, found the idiot on the side of the road minus the tyre he'd just burst ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) Lucky he had space to stop, otherwise he could have done others damage when the tyre went.
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"Allons-y!" "Geronimo!" "Oh, for God's sake!" The Day of the Doctor
At the end of the day, we face our Maker alongside Jesus. RIP ken
Posts: 2696 | From: my desk (if I can find the keyboard under this mess) | Registered: May 2001
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Ah, snow. I was driving between Woodchurch and Ashford, a road mostly north/south, bar a dogleg in the middle. Most of the road was clear, but the dogleg had a deep drift across most of it, with one track of two tyre tracks through it on my side. The person in front of me drove through, I waited while a driver came through from the other direction, then set off myself, only to find that another driver came round the corner, immediately started through towards me, and kept coming. I, next to the verge, where, this being on Wealden Clay, there was a ditch, had to drive off the road. I got out to look at what my wheels were resting on, to receive some criticism from the man in the other vehicle, implying that I didn't know what I was doing. I pointed out that I might now need to get the sacking and the shovel out of my boot, but he was dismissive. Grr.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Most schools were not built with the car in mind, and one school I was associated with, as parent and governor, was rebuilt this century with deliberately poor vehicular access. Somewhere in our Civic Centre there must be some a planning officer who deserves a "Best Motoring Git in a Supporting Role" award.
That one isn't the planning officer's fault. I was a governor at the local recently rebuilt secondary school during the planning stages. The lack of parking spaces and drop off points for parents is dictated by Government policy. We did query it with the architects and were told that the recommended parking spaces did not allow for parents collecting and dropping off, particularly as the intention was to discourage car use. The only drop off allowance was for buses. Because of course no space to take the car is such a deterrent, makes the roads around so safe and discourages parents from dropping off in the bus spaces. Of course a policy of removing safe drop off spaces will encourage the children to walk and cycle in the absence of any other provision.
This particular site is on the outskirts of town and many parents will be dropping their children off on their way to work because it is not far off possible routes to various local work places. (And if parents do this it will incidentally make the back road I used to cycle to the next town busier, diverting people that way.) Siting the school at right at the edge of town situates it several miles walk from the opposite ends of town. There are safe walking routes from the original site, but that assumes all pupils will be coming from that direction. There has been no effort to create safe cycle routes. (That used to be a voluntary effort, and meant working with Bike It officers from Sustrans, not sure how that works now.)
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Drifting Star
Drifting against the wind
# 12799
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Posted
I came across the same thing with a supermarket application. The number of parking spaces in the car park was restricted in the apparent assumption that this would make people use public transport. This was in a small town with pre-existing parking problems and minimal bus services, of the 'the bus to and from [villages to the south and west] runs on Wednesday' type.
There was an accompanying requirement that the supermarket company put on extra bus services, but these were also minimal, and the requirement only lasted for (from memory) 18 or 24 months. It was very clear that they would not continue after that.
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The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Heraclitus
Posts: 3126 | From: A thin place. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Most schools were not built with the car in mind, and one school I was associated with, as parent and governor, was rebuilt this century with deliberately poor vehicular access. Somewhere in our Civic Centre there must be some a planning officer who deserves a "Best Motoring Git in a Supporting Role" award.
That one isn't the planning officer's fault. I was a governor at the local recently rebuilt secondary school during the planning stages. The lack of parking spaces and drop off points for parents is dictated by Government policy. We did query it with the architects and were told that the recommended parking spaces did not allow for parents collecting and dropping off, particularly as the intention was to discourage car use. The only drop off allowance was for buses. Because of course no space to take the car is such a deterrent, makes the roads around so safe and discourages parents from dropping off in the bus spaces. Of course a policy of removing safe drop off spaces will encourage the children to walk and cycle in the absence of any other provision.
This particular site is on the outskirts of town and many parents will be dropping their children off on their way to work because it is not far off possible routes to various local work places. (And if parents do this it will incidentally make the back road I used to cycle to the next town busier, diverting people that way.) Siting the school at right at the edge of town situates it several miles walk from the opposite ends of town. There are safe walking routes from the original site, but that assumes all pupils will be coming from that direction. There has been no effort to create safe cycle routes. (That used to be a voluntary effort, and meant working with Bike It officers from Sustrans, not sure how that works now.)
You don't know the circumstances of this particular school. There might be a government policy but I'm not letting the planners off scot-free as other possibilities existed
The original site was right in the midst of the catchment and while many children were driven to school there were enough routes in and out to permit them to be dropped off at the gate and give cars a quick route out. The new school is only accessible by a traffic light controlled single lane road that is on the edge of the houses and is on the way to nowhere. Children have further to travel, all the walking routes are along narrow streets and typically involve more road crossings than before. Also the school is on the road to nowhere, people taking their children to school have to make an "out and back" trip.
The only way to deter people from using a car is to charge them directly. Incentives don't work and the only disincentive that works is a direct charge. London's Congestion Charge ought to be a clue.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Rev per Minute
Shipmate
# 69
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Most schools were not built with the car in mind, and one school I was associated with, as parent and governor, was rebuilt this century with deliberately poor vehicular access. Somewhere in our Civic Centre there must be some a planning officer who deserves a "Best Motoring Git in a Supporting Role" award.
That one isn't the planning officer's fault. I was a governor at the local o rebuilt secondary school during the planning stages. The lack of parking spaces and drop off points for parents is dictated by Government policy. We did query it with the architects and were told that the recommended parking spaces did not allow for parents collecting and dropping off, particularly as the intention was to discourage car use. The only drop off allowance was for buses. Because of course no space to take the car is such a deterrent, makes the roads around so safe and discourages parents from dropping off in the bus spaces. Of course a policy of removing safe drop off spaces will encourage the children to walk and cycle in the absence of any other provision.
You don't know the circumstances of this particular school. There might be a government policy but I'm not letting the planners off scot-free as other possibilities existed
Of course, it was also a different Government - Wales <> England in planning, education, transport...
(Sorry Curiosity, Sioni, slight professional hobby horse...)
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"Allons-y!" "Geronimo!" "Oh, for God's sake!" The Day of the Doctor
At the end of the day, we face our Maker alongside Jesus. RIP ken
Posts: 2696 | From: my desk (if I can find the keyboard under this mess) | Registered: May 2001
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Drifting Star:
I came across the same thing with a supermarket application. The number of parking spaces in the car park was restricted in the apparent assumption that this would make people use public transport.
Because people will drive to the supermarket, not be able to find space to park, drive back home again and take the bus?
Who thinks these things through? Most people who shop in supermarkets want to go once a week or so. Supermarkets have large trollies to accommodate people doing "the weekly shop". Most people cannot carry the contents of a supermarket trolley.
When I was young and single, I went shopping with an 80 litre backpack, and that was just fine - I filled it, more or less, and could cycle home wearing it.
Most people aren't single, and many of those who are don't want to carry a massive backpack of shopping.
Back when I lived in a fairly poor part of London, it was normal for people to walk or take the bus to the supermarket, do their shopping, and get a minicab home with the week's shopping. This is worse, in terms of congestion and carbon, than them driving private cars (obviously they do this because they don't own cars; it doesn't make sense to encourage people who do own cars to do this.)
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
In addition, even if the supermarket has a convenient bus stop and one of those buses runs conveniently close to home (ie: it's feasible to haul a medium sized shop of maybe 6 bags to and from the bus) the bus will take so long to make the journey that any frozen or chilled foods you bought are likely to have got too warm (assuming the heating in the bus is working).
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Most schools were not built with the car in mind, and one school I was associated with, as parent and governor, was rebuilt this century with deliberately poor vehicular access. Somewhere in our Civic Centre there must be some a planning officer who deserves a "Best Motoring Git in a Supporting Role" award.
That one isn't the planning officer's fault. I was a governor at the local recently rebuilt secondary school during the planning stages. The lack of parking spaces and drop off points for parents is dictated by Government policy. We did query it with the architects and were told that the recommended parking spaces did not allow for parents collecting and dropping off, particularly as the intention was to discourage car use. The only drop off allowance was for buses. Because of course no space to take the car is such a deterrent, makes the roads around so safe and discourages parents from dropping off in the bus spaces. Of course a policy of removing safe drop off spaces will encourage the children to walk and cycle in the absence of any other provision.
This particular site is on the outskirts of town and many parents will be dropping their children off on their way to work because it is not far off possible routes to various local work places. (And if parents do this it will incidentally make the back road I used to cycle to the next town busier, diverting people that way.) Siting the school at right at the edge of town situates it several miles walk from the opposite ends of town. There are safe walking routes from the original site, but that assumes all pupils will be coming from that direction. There has been no effort to create safe cycle routes. (That used to be a voluntary effort, and meant working with Bike It officers from Sustrans, not sure how that works now.)
You don't know the circumstances of this particular school. There might be a government policy but I'm not letting the planners off scot-free as other possibilities existed
The original site was right in the midst of the catchment and while many children were driven to school there were enough routes in and out to permit them to be dropped off at the gate and give cars a quick route out. The new school is only accessible by a traffic light controlled single lane road that is on the edge of the houses and is on the way to nowhere. Children have further to travel, all the walking routes are along narrow streets and typically involve more road crossings than before. Also the school is on the road to nowhere, people taking their children to school have to make an "out and back" trip.
The only way to deter people from using a car is to charge them directly. Incentives don't work and the only disincentive that works is a direct charge. London's Congestion Charge ought to be a clue.
This is all bonkers, and all disturbingly familiar. Both the schools my seven-year old child has been associated with so far have done everything possible to make parking a car anywhere near really inconvenient, on the mistaken assumption that absolutely everyone will then say, 'Well then, Janie', let's walk today, shall we?' It's a nice idea, ain't it. But Janie's mum, and Max's dad, and Chloe's nana are all on a time schedule, and are dropping their child off at school on the way to work, they don't have the luxury of another quarter hour of sauntering back to the house before [you guessed it] jumping in the car - and even Toby's mum and Anna's mum, who work from home, will use the car, because they too have stuff to do and are also dropping a smaller child off at a preschool that it would be entirely farcical to try and walk to.
This I have concluded after only two years involvement with schools (and it came as quite a shock after four years of involvement with daycares) - they have not moved on mentally from the 1950s, when there was a family wage with a dad working a set 40 hours a week earning it, and thus an entire suburb full of mums who can be called upon to bake and make and fundraise and sew costumes and paint sets and god knows what else, who only drive to school in the mornings out of laziness, and who are thereby setting a bad example to their children, who can be easily incentivised to guilt them into walking by offering special privileges to those children who walk.
Sorry to do this to a thread about bad driving...
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The history of humanity give one little hope that strength left to its own devices won't be abused. Indeed, it gives one little ground to think that strength would continue to exist if it were not abused. -- Dafyd --
Posts: 993 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
The problem isn't the expectation of a parent at home to do the driving. It's that many schools are not even near to where people live.
When I were a lad, my primary school (age 7-11) was a short walk away - no more than 1km. Mum had a part time job, so I used to walk that with my younger brother, often on our own (I remember also walking with some of the other children in the street at the same school). By the time I started secondary school I cycled the 2.5km. In both cases, the school was the nearest to home (well, I think another secondary school may have been a little bit closer, but marginally and would have required a cycle route crossing at least two major roads).
Nowadays it doesn't seem unusual for children to go to a school further away, often passing other schools to get there, with children living next to each other going to different schools.
What has happened is that
a) parents no longer consider it safe to let children walk short distances on their own - and, in some cases it isn't safe, mainly because of other parents trying to get their car into non-existant parking spaces outside the school in a hurry to drop of children and get to work.
b) neighbours no longer go to the same schools, so it isn't even convenient for parents to take turns walking the kids who live next door to school, or even pile lots of them into a single vehicle.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Alan: haven't you forgotten another big reason: parental choice? It is no longer virtually automatic that children will simply go to their nearest school. Hence parents from A drive their children to a school at B because they think it's better ... and vice-versa?
(Of course, such choice always existed within the private sector).
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
I never actually stated a reason why things have changed and kids no longer go to the local school, just made the observation.
But, you're right - parental choice based on a perception of educational quality (a perception that is rarely reflected in any quantifiable evidence) is one big reason. Another is that many modern housing estates are built without any school provision, and so the nearest schools are all associated with older housing estates which may be a considerable distance (including crossing the major roads that often encircle housing estates).
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
/tangent/:
My wife grew up in Clydebank and went to secondary school in the 1960s. In her street there was a row of tenements, then a gap without houses (due to wartime bombing I think), then more houses further down.
The kids who lived in one group of houses all got free bus passes to take them to school. The kids in the other houses didn't get the passes: because the "distance to school" which mandated the issuing of bus passes went through the gap. Yet there was only one bus stop which all the kids used anyway!
(The families who had to pay complained to the Council, but I don't know if it did any good).
/tangent ends/
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
From experience, a rough calculation a primary school does when a a new housing estate is built is that they will be asked to place one child for every 10 houses. On that calculation local authorities do not have to consider new schools until after the impact on roads, water, sewers, hospitals, shops and a whole lot more infrastructure is considered.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Developers may sometimes have "Section 106" agreements in place to build schools, etc.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
This guy must be in the running. His charge sheet is quite impressive and omits only Driving While Disqualified from the complete set. I'm sure he'll get that and probably a short but salutory sojourn in one of Her Majesty's Hotels.
Uninsured drivers are a particular problem in South Wales: at any time about one third of cars on the road are being driven by people who are not insured to do so.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Are your groceries really that urgent?
Mmm. What about if they include Pringles and wine?
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814
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Posted
On State Highway One, speed limit 100kms, with a large tractor in front, doing his best to keep right over but it's not always possible. We don't mind, but a little yellow car roars past, right over the double yellow lines, and dashes ahead. Less than two kms further on we (and the tractor) turn in to the Poultry Farm (where if we're lucky we get double yolkers) and there's the yellow car and a scrawny little old bugger buying trays of eggs. We reproach him gently and get a tirade in return – we'd been doing 70 on a 100k road and holding. him.up!!!
Crossing a double yellow line, when he only had 2 kms to go??
The Grandad insisted on going to the police station in the next town and telling them all about it; of course we had his number and description.
I hope they threw the book at him.
GG
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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113
Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
I was on an observed drive on Sunday, and was the third car behind a group of cyclists.
The road was not one that had many options for overtaking - a few, with care, but most of the road was not suitable.
At one point, where there was a half chance of a pass, the car in front of me passed the car at the front of the line. Behind the cyclists. Gaining pretty well no advantage.
Not only was the pass pointless, it was dangerous - there was no space to pull in. And following the bikes was frustrating, but there were loads of them, and it was just part of driving around there at that time.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814
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Posted
The Coromandel Peninsula, NZ, has beautiful scenery, and we cherish the tourists who are important to our economy.
But our roads are mostly winding (sometimes with a mirror for safety on blind bends), hilly, narrow in places with one-way bridges.
It's not just that visitors want to admire the scenery as they drive, but some find the roads so different from home they are really, really scary, so they drive slowly and carefully.
The worst offender was when I was in a tail of half a dozen vehicles following a campervan up the Thames Coast, where the Thames-Coromandel road winds along just above the edge of the sea and then over a couple of steep hills, narrowing in places to a one-way stretch. So the driver drove at 50k (that's 30 mph) all the way, never pulled over to let others pass (and there are numerous opportunities) and then rudely barged across a one way bridge when the approaching driver had the clearly- posted right-of-way.
At least he hadn't branched off onto the Tapu-Coroglen road, which is all of the above plus being un-sealed.
I must admit that in a capital city with winding, hilly suburban street with cars parked along them, even native kiwi drivers from cities with broad straight streets can be very, very nervous.
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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113
Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
But, you're right - parental choice based on a perception of educational quality (a perception that is rarely reflected in any quantifiable evidence) is one big reason.
Can't it just be preference? I live next to a sushi restaurant, you live by a curry house, but I prefer the food next to your house and you prefer the food next to mine?
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Of course, you may just prefer the particular shade of institutional green they paint the walls.
But, the point is if you choose (for whatever reason) to send your children to a school that is further than reasonable walking distance, where none of the other local children go, etc then you need to accept there are consequences. One of them being that schools built to serve their local communities are not going to be as equipped to cater for the needs of people who decide to drive miles to get there - and that includes provision of drop-off spaces for car-borne children right at the school gate. It means you can't coordinate with the other parents on the street to share the task of ensuring the kids get safely to school, cos their kids go elsewhere. It means the bus service for the school may not run outside your door, because the company operating the bus doesn't think it's worthwhile going that far out of their way for one child (or, if they do, they put that as their first stop so you need to get children out the door at stupid o'clock).
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Motoring Git of The Month Award is hereby bestowed on the twat in a large white van who tried to come round the corner of what, thanks to parked cars, is effectively a single-file road, while I was waiting to turn right. He then had to wait halfway in and halfway out for me to move out to let him through, which I couldn't do because he'd just effectively blocked all visibility onto a busy main road. If I moved forward to see past the van there was every possibility I'd get crashed into in the process. I then got a queue of irate drivers behind me wanting to know why I wasn't moving on.
It's the first time in my life I've ever wound down the window and said what I thought. It was a waste of time, the van driver didn't hear me, and wasn't going to reverse back round the corner into the main road, and I had to risk pulling out instead.
Your trophy awaits. Claim it and sod off.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Well, that beats what I came here to relate. Started off up the single track lane to the local church to see a small white van start off towards me, having just come past the farm gates and the church car park gates, with a similar small van behind him. They came on, and on and on. I had to reverse about 100 yards to the gate to the cricket field while the leading van came almost to touch my bumper. He smiled sweetly as he passed me, while the following driver, I am told, gestured me (I am told by my passenger) to go forward through a gap that I would have needed Harry Potter's night bus technology to get through.
Women can't reverse, they say.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
You could have stopped, got out, and gone for a walk... that might have concentrated their minds a little.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
It's international. Les hommes dans camionettes blancs are no better.
(Franglais for "men in white vans")
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I did mutter about stopping if he got any closer, but he then slowed a bit. But I've got them on video, probably with their numbers.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. When my car packs it in I'll get a white van of my own.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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