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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Then they came for our tuna bakes
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
BBC Recipes to be taken down as part of 'savings'.
Savings my arse. Keeping existing content online costs nothing. It's a comprehensive, well-indexed, trustworthy and, worst of all, non-commercial collection of useful information. It is, in fact, a Public Library.
So of course the Tories hate it.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
It's a two-edged sword, both edges of which are as a blunt as a fresh baguette.
On the one hand, it's hard to see how a largely dormant database costs the corporation an arm and leg, so getting rid of it is hardly going to generate a significant saving.
On the other, it's hardly a scarce, irreplaceable resource. What's stopping people from doing a crowdsourcing exercise of copy & paste and put the recipes on a separate website?
Much as I'm a fan of the BBC and critical of their biased news reporting (it was biased to Blair when he was PM, it's been biased to Cameron for at least the last 6 years), this seems like a storm in a teacup.
Are there not bigger fish to fry, poach, bake, broil or grill?
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
Posts: 3791 | From: On the corporate ladder | Registered: Jan 2012
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*Leon*
Shipmate
# 3377
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
What's stopping people from doing a crowdsourcing exercise of copy & paste and put the recipes on a separate website?
Copyright law
Posts: 831 | From: london | Registered: Oct 2002
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by *Leon*:
quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
What's stopping people from doing a crowdsourcing exercise of copy & paste and put the recipes on a separate website?
Copyright law
Bollocks. You can make sufficient tweaks to show that it's not one-for-one. I don't think the WI have a copyright on the recipe for a Victoria Sponge. If I want to publish a recipe for one, I doubt anyone will sue me.
Besides, the BBC were talking about getting rid of the website, not selling the rights to it. Who would own the copyright?
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
Posts: 3791 | From: On the corporate ladder | Registered: Jan 2012
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
Besides, the BBC were talking about getting rid of the website, not selling the rights to it. Who would own the copyright?
Whoever owns it while the website is up. If you publish a book and own the copyright, withdrawing it from sale doesn't make the copyright evaporate.
Personally I think there's an argument for some law reform to make copyright "use it or lose it" so that copyright could be lost, but as things stand, there's no obligation on a copyright holder to continue making material available.
[ 17. May 2016, 10:20: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
There must be some very talented accountants, not to mention chefs, if any recipe website costs £15 million.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
You don't have to go far to find out why the BBC is having to take the recipes down. It's so that other people who the Tories like can make money out of it.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
On an all night radio show
The announcer comes on
Says, "If you've got ideas I'll file the patent for you"
What's an idea that's not in the store
Making a buck or two
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
Internet recipes are sometimes useful, but very variable, in my opinion. Usually it is better to find a cookbook that you know and trust rather than race around the internet trying to decide whether any given recipe will work out.
BBC recipes are often rubbish, because a very large percentage come from tv shows where the chefs sling them together in a hurry as they race a clock. So no great loss.
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arse
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
Also the chances of Murdoch cornering a very crowded market for recipes online is near zero. There are already a large number of very big recipe sites, why would anyone go to Murdoch's in particular?
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arse
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Have I misunderstood this? I thought the BBC itself had decided to axe the recipe site, not that it was a direct command from the Cabinet.
Also, the BBC Good Food site will still be available.
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
I don't think the recipes are going away. They just will become archived, and you'll need to rely on a search engine to find the appropriate archived page.
Or so it was said on the radio this a.m. They also said that in future, new recipes from current programmes will go up for a 30-day period.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Honest Ron Bacardi:
I don't think the recipes are going away. They just will become archived, and you'll need to rely on a search engine to find the appropriate archived page.
The BBC have confirmed this. So we can all now take that tin foil off our heads and use it when baking a delicious BBC recipe instead.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
You'll need a rough idea of the recipe url, which will make it a good deal harder to find anything you haven't already used.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
You'll need a rough idea of the recipe url, which will make it a good deal harder to find anything you haven't already used.
How so? The BBC Good Food website has a search function.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
As others have said, the cost of keeping it is nothing. The cost of keeping things on there for a shorter time is probably more. So it is not about saving money.
The BBC site is a fantastic resource for recipes. I use it quite a lot, because I have learnt to trust them, they are in English measurements, and (as a rule) use available ingredients. This is important when, as so often, I am looking for something quick for a few hours time.
Yes, there are all sorts of other places, but this means I will have to find other sites that prove reliable for recipes, in the same sort of way.
All because someone thinks they can make money out of it? Which seems to be the answer to everything. And makes me fucking mad, because there is so much more important in life.
As I haven't said it recently, Cameron, please go fuck a pig*.
* Whether he has anything to do with this or not, I still hate him. Vile pile of shit.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
BBC recipes are often rubbish, because a very large percentage come from tv shows where the chefs sling them together in a hurry as they race a clock. So no great loss.
Have you ever actually cooked anything from the BBC site? Come to that, have you ever cooked anything ?
Your posts are frequently peevish, arrogant and ill-informed - but that one borders on the witless.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Have I misunderstood this? I thought the BBC itself had decided to axe the recipe site, not that it was a direct command from the Cabinet..
You don't think George Osborne's remarks criticising the BBC for having “features and cooking recipes”, arguing it was evidence of the corporation’s “imperial ambitions” and meant it was becoming “the national newspaper as well as the national broadcaster” may have had an influence?
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Have you ever actually cooked anything from the BBC site? Come to that, have you ever cooked anything ?
Yes, I cook on a daily basis. Sometimes I've tried cooking recipes from the BBC.
quote:
Your posts are frequently peevish, arrogant and ill-informed - but that one borders on the witless.
[ ] - how much of a fuck I give.
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arse
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
[ ] - how much of a fuck I give.
Well, naturally. If you cared - or even comprehended - what a shoddy little whinger you are, you wouldn't be.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Well, naturally. If you cared - or even comprehended - what a shoddy little whinger you are, you wouldn't be.
Fuck you, and fuck the horse you rode in on.
I don't need to like the things you like, I don't need to explain why I don't like them, and I don't need you to cast aspersions relating to my cooking ability when you haven't a fucking clue about me.
[ 17. May 2016, 21:31: Message edited by: mr cheesy ]
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arse
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
All the clues, Watson, point to an individual of short temper, superficial understanding and limited vocabulary. Nothing need detain us further, I think.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
BBC recipes are often rubbish, because a very large percentage come from tv shows where the chefs sling them together in a hurry as they race a clock. So no great loss.
Very often they are top quality chefs sharing their recipes that they can make quickly. I suspect that even when they are in a hurry, they taste better than most stuff that either of us cook. And there is no need to cook them in a hurry - they still work, and are often easy ways of livening up food.
It is, as the OP said, like a library. Tips and suggestions from people at the top of their game, stored together for anyone to access. It should be preserved, not sold off. If I could, I would love to buy the rights to it, and host it myself. It would not cost £15M a year.
A few adverts, and it would easily pay for itself.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Very often they are top quality chefs sharing their recipes that they can make quickly. I suspect that even when they are in a hurry, they taste better than most stuff that either of us cook. And there is no need to cook them in a hurry - they still work, and are often easy ways of livening up food.
I am not a trained chef, I cook for myself and my family. The chances of me being able to have the skills to follow a rapid recipe from a chef on a TV show and have it turn out properly are negligible.
That's quite a contrast to other recipe sites, including the BBC's own Good Food recipe site, where the recipes are properly tested, checked and reviewed by other users.
quote:
It is, as the OP said, like a library. Tips and suggestions from people at the top of their game, stored together for anyone to access. It should be preserved, not sold off. If I could, I would love to buy the rights to it, and host it myself. It would not cost £15M a year.
A few adverts, and it would easily pay for itself.
That's not going to happen. And is like saying that because the license-fee payer invested in Eastenders, anyone else ought to be able to host the content after the 40 days the BBC keeps it on the iplayer. It doesn't work like that.
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arse
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Apparently, the 120,000 plus signatures have saved the bulk of the collection. News here.
Meh. I have nothing against Good Food - I have an impressively gravy-splattered cookbook published by them. But the site is nothing as well-indexed as the BBC one, with none of the features on seasonality, say.
It is the usual - we are fobbed off with an inferior product and told it's every bit as good now shut up.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Have I misunderstood this? I thought the BBC itself had decided to axe the recipe site, not that it was a direct command from the Cabinet..
You don't think George Osborne's remarks criticising the BBC for having “features and cooking recipes”, arguing it was evidence of the corporation’s “imperial ambitions” and meant it was becoming “the national newspaper as well as the national broadcaster” may have had an influence?
I’m allergic to Osborne so missed him saying that.
He doesn’t strike me as much of a cook himself, though for all I know he may be able to produce a baked alaska with sublime ease on a regular basis. But somehow I doubt it.
Btw I actually prefer the Good Food site but I think both are useful.
[ 18. May 2016, 07:59: Message edited by: Ariel ]
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Very often they are top quality chefs sharing their recipes that they can make quickly.
What you see on screen is someone performing cooking a dish. It's entertainment, shot and edited to leave out the boring bits - like waiting for the onions to soften or the stock to reduce. Its relation to the recipe is of the blurb to the novel - something to entice you to read the whole thing.
That's why stripping out the archive/taking recipes down after 30 days is destroying the potentially educative aspect of cookery programmes.
It is, she said, shifting into apocalyptic mode, in line with the all-pervasive tawdriness of everything, the hollowing out of content, nourishment, meaning.
[ 18. May 2016, 10:08: Message edited by: Firenze ]
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
Maybe next they'll add really dramatic music to cooking programs, and get a whole lot more explicit with their narrative arc until cooking programs become as totally fucking unwatchable as 99% of documentaries on telly.
(Fuck it, they already did, didn't they - that's what those cooking-against-the-clock and dinner-parties-for-competitive-cooking-cunts programs are all about. Well, that's what I come here for - raging against that which is so inevitable, it already is).
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
I see commercial sites are complaining that the BBC keeping recipes up in response to public demand is cynical and is "hardly helping its commercial rivals".
Because clearly given the choice between helping the public and helping companies trying to make money, the BBC should help companies make money.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
( After looking at UK recipes and shuddering)
As a dyed in the wool Lutheran, I have to protest-- sweetcorn in tuna bake? No. Just no. Something green-- peas, broccoli, even spinach would be better. And sorry, Jamie Oliver-- marinara tuna casserole? Ye Gods, no.
I think I am gonna have to watch some Golden Girls reruns to recover.
[ 19. May 2016, 01:41: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Those are British recipes, which are loved by British people (yes, we can be weird!). That's why they need to be on a distinctively British site, because if they get mixed in with recipes from other places we'll get confused. We'll have to convert these foreign measurements, have to figure out what gas mark they mean, and (horror of horrors!) may end up putting something green in our tuna pasta bake.
Stand up for the BBC being distinctively British. Put sweetcorn in your tuna pasta bake!
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Oh, GOOOD. Solidaridty is HARD.
But c'mon, would you put Cheeze Whiz on a Croque Monsieur?
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
OK, on that we might agree. If I found Cheez Whiz in my kitchen the only thing I would put it in is the bin.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Where it belongs ( Sorry, kenwritez. ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif) )
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Of course it's peas. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever will be, world without end, amen.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
See, Alan? See?
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
I see commercial sites are complaining that the BBC keeping recipes up in response to public demand is cynical and is "hardly helping its commercial rivals".
Because clearly given the choice between helping the public and helping companies trying to make money, the BBC should help companies make money.
Of course! So the money can then trickle down like a drizzle of butterscotch sauce.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Of course! So the money can then trickle down like a drizzle of butterscotch sauce.
You certainly get the impression these days of living under a constant rain of something brown and sticky.
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
( After looking at UK recipes and shuddering)
As a dyed in the wool Lutheran, I have to protest-- sweetcorn in tuna bake? No. Just no. Something green-- peas, broccoli, even spinach would be better.
Tuna with corn is a well-known combination here - sandwich fillings, baked potato toppings, pasta bakes etc etc.
Popular traditions vary. I remember an American shipmate being horrified by the idea of baked beans on toast a few years ago. "Double carbs!!" they exclaimed in shock. I suppose it is but it's another much-loved British staple.
Having looked at some US menus recently the one thing I did notice was lots of grills, fried stuff, burgers, pizzas, Italian pastas, salads. Very few actual "made dishes" like, as it might be, the sort of pub grub we get here (which includes the above but more). Shepherd's pie, moussaka, curry, hotpot, chilli, pies. Not even sausage and mash or roasts.
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
You People willingly eat pork pies.
Enough said.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Which menus were those, Ariel? Denny's? Because every dish you just mentioned as traditional British fare- including moussaka and curry --is available here.
I know the UK has its own crappity franciise restautants, I've been taken to them. ( Not by Shipmates, I hasten to add. ) I certainly wouldn't judge the whole of UK cuisine by them.
Here's the funny thing, whenever we have a foodie thread in Heaven and some American, in a timid, queroulous attempt to bond, mentions how some dish or another is prepared stateside, there is usually someone swiftly on hand not just to say, " we do that differently" but, " ew, gross, who on earth would do it that way?"
So it strikes me as really funny when I make a joke about the Lutheran definitive cassarole recipe-- it's tuna cassarole, for fuck's sake, you make it any way you want, as long as it has noodles and tuna-- and it provokes a pearl clutching, culinary flag waving post from you. You really don't have to do that, plenty of people have beat you to it.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
So it strikes me as really funny when I make a joke about the Lutheran definitive cassarole recipe-- it's tuna cassarole, for fuck's sake, you make it any way you want, as long as it has noodles and tuna-- and it provokes a pearl clutching, culinary flag waving post from you.
I had no idea that was a joke. I thought you meant it.
I guess that's the internet for you: I didn't see any humour in your post, you didn't get that I wasn't actually indignant or shocked, just musing. ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
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Mrs Shrew
Ship's Mother
# 8635
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Posted
I propose fusion food- tuna pasta bake with BOTH sweetcorn AND peas.
But then I will put sweetcorn and peas in pretty much anything because they are my favourite....
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"The goal of life is not to make other people in your own image, it is to understand that they, too, are in God's image" (Orfeo)
Was "mummyfrances".
Posts: 703 | From: York, England | Registered: Oct 2004
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I remember an American shipmate being horrified by the idea of baked beans on toast a few years ago. "Double carbs!!" they exclaimed in shock.
There's someone who needs a good chip butty.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
We don't appear to have Lutherans in the UK. They seem to have skipped straight through from Germany to the Americas a-clutching of their casseroles.
In fact, the impact of Germanic cuisine in Britain is remarkably low (the Wars you know). Chinese, Indian, Italian, French, Thai, Turkish - all over the place. But your chances of lighting on a bockwurst mit sauerkraut - minimal.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Where the crap did tuna noodle whatever the freak you call it come from, then, I wonder? I have a feeling it was those shifty Norwegians.
Or maybe it was a byproduct of all those weird rationing recipes popular n the war years, but at least in tbe US, the legends seem to intone that the Holy People of Minnesota/ Missouri were the early proselytes of this dish. I blame the Norwegians because they brought Lutheranism to that area, and they had a reputation for doing unspeakable things to innocent fish.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
quote:
There's someone who needs a good chip butty
Eee, I'm scrapin'tit offert roof o't mouth, jes thinkin' bah'tit.
(I heard Ian McMillan on Radio 4 yesterday talking about how to write badly in Northern dialect - waiting for't postman to come wi't cheery knock at'door and t'cry 'ere's yer sackfull o't' apostophe's - tha can get t'ritin' nah)
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Just so long as they're proper chips. Not these "Freedom Fries" that they have in the US.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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