|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Traumatizing tattoos in hospitals
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
By "Cut slack" I meant believing that they really do find the tattoos distressing - not just using it as an excuse to pursue a prejudice against tattoo-wearers.
Perhaps a patient might be rude and inappropriate in the way they communicate regarding their fear. While in normal life it might be reasonable to respond to that by not being accommodating until someone learns some manners, in hospital with a patient who is stuck with their vulnerable situation it is a bit different.
Sometimes one encounters this problem where obvious prejudice is concerned - for instance where a distressed vulnerable patient declares that they don't want a black doctor. This gets complicated and is considered is a somewhat controversial area within the caring professions.
Been thinking of this. This conclusion from the article:
quote:
Although institutions should not accommodate, for individual physicians the decision to accommodate may be sound when the accommodating physician is comfortable with the decision, employment rights are protected, and the decision does not compromise good medical care.
This feel right, and it also seems to reflect what we' ve been talking about, regarding a personal decision to accomodate in deference to best practice versus a policy rewrite.
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
|
Posted
I agree to some extent but there is a difference - the article is about race which is a protected characteristic. Tattoos aren't. One could discuss whether that is reasonable or not but I think that the principle of having some characteristics that are protected and some that aren't is a sound one.
That supports more of a role for the institution in determining the outcome.
Nevertheless I still think it is a balance and one that line managers should get involved in discussing. I would favour a guideline that line managers and their staff should discuss potentially distressing images and take a decision based on how prominent the tattoo is, how likely it is to be distressing and how easy it is to cover up. That probably is what happens in many hospitals already.
These sorts of situations are much better handled by a discussion of values in a guideline than a rule book with a list of blanket criteria.
--------------------
mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
Oh, totally agreed. About discussion of guidelines.
Maybe part if what frames my perspective is that, in a lot of metro areas in the US, there are nursing shortages. Bad ones. Decades old. So administrations might hold back on demanding accomodation from nurses as they can't afford to either lose staff or bounce people around from patient to patient.
[ 11. April 2016, 17:48: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
|
Posted
Kelley -- so in the situation you describe, either way the sensitive patient (remember him/her) is screwed. Either no treatment at all, because no health-care staff available to provide it, or health-care only available in a way that is repugnant and stressful.
John
Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
I guess I am saying I can see how a hospital admin would feel kind of screwed either way.
And it's Kelly.
And I don't what I said that implied "No Treatment at all." What I did say is that you might have a very short staff serving a ton of people in an ER room. Actually, no maybe about it, if you live in New York, San Francisco, LA, or any large metro area, that is what will happen. An ER nurse might simply not have enough time, running from patient to patient, to doctor up a tattoo.
[ 12. April 2016, 01:04: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by John Holding:
Kelley -- so in the situation you describe, either way the sensitive patient (remember him/her) is screwed. Either no treatment at all, because no health-care staff available to provide it, or health-care only available in a way that is repugnant and stressful.
John
The problem with the sensitive patient argument is that they are their own barrier. Their sensitivity is the result of their own prejudice.
To be perfectly clear, I'm not saying then patients' concerns are inconsequential.
If the woman in the article had been a 20 year old man, would we be having this conversation I wonder?
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by John Holding:
Kelley -- so in the situation you describe, either way the sensitive patient (remember him/her) is screwed. Either no treatment at all, because no health-care staff available to provide it, or health-care only available in a way that is repugnant and stressful.
John
I think it`s often more than simply a sensitive patient. Extreme intolerance to certain anaesthetics and pain relievers, and combinations thereof, is well known, especially to the nurses who have to deal with the effects when a patient is recovering after surgery. There`s a good reason why some of them, like Percocet, have a high value on the street as hallucinogens.
--------------------
Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
There`s a good reason why some of them, like Percocet, have a high value on the street as hallucinogens.
Opioids often have a greater recreational effect when one is not in pain. Who might have a strong sensitivity despite the pain and what they will experience is not apparent before administration. But it has street value, in part, because it is easier for many to obtain than heroin or other opioids.
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by John Holding:
Kelley -- so in the situation you describe, either way the sensitive patient (remember him/her) is screwed. Either no treatment at all, because no health-care staff available to provide it, or health-care only available in a way that is repugnant and stressful.
John
The problem with the sensitive patient argument is that they are their own barrier. Their sensitivity is the result of their own prejudice.
To be perfectly clear, I'm not saying then patients' concerns are inconsequential.
If the woman in the article had been a 20 year old man, would we be having this conversation I wonder?
Or to put it another way, "the problem with the insensitive nurse is that they are their own barrier. They refuse to wear clothing which adequately covers a tattoo they have chosen to wear".
--------------------
Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
I'm going to ask again-- other have made this request and been respected about it. If you are going to refer to me, can you use the correct spelling of my name?
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
|
Posted
Um. That was Gee D and others quoting John Holding's original post. John Holding has not been back to correct himself. The quoters just didn't correct his mistake.
If you have asked John Holding to correct himself another time, I apologize for butting in.
--------------------
"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
I think it is reasonable for me to ask that it not continue.
And for the record, that was a plural, "you."
[ 12. April 2016, 04:42: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
Or to put it another way, "the problem with the insensitive nurse is that they are their own barrier. They refuse to wear clothing which adequately covers a tattoo they have chosen to wear".
Every story has two sides, but they are not always equal. The woman in the article brought her prejudice into the hospital.
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I think it is reasonable for me to ask that it not continue.
And for the record, that was a plural, "you."
Absolutely reasonable. And now I do apologize.
--------------------
"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I think it is reasonable for me to ask that it not continue.
And for the record, that was a plural, "you."
Leaving misspelled words in a quote bothers me. But so does changing them, because the quote is then no longer accurate.
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
The woman in the article brought her prejudice into the hospital.
I think we can't necessarily say prejudice. (Except in the sense that any view is a form of prejudice in the old sense of the word - but usually it implies unjustifiable prejudice). She reports being freaked out by an image of a skull while on ketamine. She doesn't report general disapproval of tattoos or of people who choose to have them. I don't think "prejudice" is necessarily the right diagnosis.
--------------------
mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
Actually that is what kind of made me question my original position-- which was "why make a fuss? the person is sick, cover it up." When I reread the article, in her interview, which I presume was given when she was lucid, she was equating people who wear tattoos to biker gang thugs.
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
Yep, prejudice in every sense of the word.
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
|
Posted
The last sentence is unfortunate and not defendable. However
quote:
She says she actually appreciates tattoos as an art form generally, but feels some images — like the skull emblem that made her think and dream of outlaw bikers — are simply inappropriate in a health-care setting.
seems more reasonable. I wouldn't agree with it personally but I think there's a learning point for a health worker here - that a skull emblem might not be the best tattoo to have on display, whatever judgement one makes of this particular woman's attitudes in objecting to it.
--------------------
mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
I share the concern about the shortage of nurses, coupled with fact that approximately 1 in 5 UK adults has a tattoo - I think it is almost 40% of under 40s.
I also wish to repeat my point that covering up a hand/forearm tattoo may be difficult with a bare below the elbows infection control regime, together with frequent hand/forearm washing.
It is certainly not an option to just wear long sleeves.
(My impression from the article, is that the patient had one encounter with this nurse, and raised a complaint after her recovery - rather than raising complaints during her care. She then says the hospital didn't listen, I guess that may depend on the form of the complaint. If she said, this nurse shouldn't be allowed to work, because of his tattoo, I am not surprised the hospital would decline to fire him.)
[ 12. April 2016, 06:38: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
(My impression from the article, is that the patient had one encounter with this nurse, and raised a complaint after her recovery - rather than raising complaints during her care. She then says the hospital didn't listen, I guess that may depend on the form of the complaint. If she said, this nurse shouldn't be allowed to work, because of his tattoo, I am not surprised the hospital would decline to fire him.)
tangent alert ... do you know how hard it is to make a complaint whilst a patient is still being treated? Yes the policy and procedures are there but there is the very justifiable fear/concern that somehow the patient will be treated differently if they complain, especially if no one else does.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I think it is reasonable for me to ask that it not continue.
And for the record, that was a plural, "you."
In my case, it was exactly as Lyda*Rose says - I clicked on the quote button etc and as always the original appeared.
--------------------
Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
|
Posted
hosting/
This matter appears to have been settled. If anybody wants to discuss the etiquette of correcting mistakes in quoted posts, please do so in the Styx, not here.
/hosting
--------------------
Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
(My impression from the article, is that the patient had one encounter with this nurse, and raised a complaint after her recovery - rather than raising complaints during her care. She then says the hospital didn't listen, I guess that may depend on the form of the complaint. If she said, this nurse shouldn't be allowed to work, because of his tattoo, I am not surprised the hospital would decline to fire him.)
tangent alert ... do you know how hard it is to make a complaint whilst a patient is still being treated? Yes the policy and procedures are there but there is the very justifiable fear/concern that somehow the patient will be treated differently if they complain, especially if no one else does.
Yes, but people have given the impression on this thread that she had at some point said - I don't want my care delivered by nurse x and the hospital had said tough, you'll just have to lump it. Which is not what I think happened.
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I'm going to ask again-- other have made this request and been respected about it. If you are going to refer to me, can you use the correct spelling of my name?
Sorry Kelly -- it was an innocent typo.
I shall try to avoid referring to you or anyone else again, in case my fingers slipt again.
As a Host, I try to avoid fussing when others accidentally make typos, since I am usually typing so fast that my name is mis-spelled as JOhn in my own posts.
John (got it htat time)
Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
|
Posted
Oops. Sorry Eutychus -- I was reading down the thread and responded to the original issue before I got to your ruling.
John
Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
deano
princess
# 12063
|
Posted
Sorry, and I may be old fashioned here, but tattoos are okay on soldiers and sailors. Anyone else having them should NOT be given a job in the first place if they are visible whilst wearing normal clothes as defined by a Conservative councillor.
--------------------
"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
But at the same time we want people to work for a living ...
(And scrubs are not 'normal' clothes.)
Come to that do you not when veteran military medical staff to be able to work as paramedics after they complete their service in the forces ?
[ 12. April 2016, 20:30: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
|
Posted
As a gay health worker with a visible tattoo... I've never had a comment on it. I've had to suck up homophobic comments by the bucketfull. Not because I was obvious, just because it's so normal for many people. I let it ride because I'm there to help them. I have once asked to be taken off a case, which was ok with my boss, who explained to the family why.
My personal life is just that, personal, and I don't want my clients being distracted by it.
--------------------
Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
deano
princess
# 12063
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
But at the same time we want people to work for a living ...
(And scrubs are not 'normal' clothes.)
Come to that do you not when veteran military medical staff to be able to work as paramedics after they complete their service in the forces ?
Scrubs are normal in hospitals. End of...
Do you want to add some punctuation to your last paragraph so we may be able to understand it?
--------------------
"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
deano
princess
# 12063
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arabella Purity Winterbottom:
As a gay health worker with a visible tattoo... I've never had a comment on it. I've had to suck up homophobic comments by the bucketfull. Not because I was obvious, just because it's so normal for many people. I let it ride because I'm there to help them. I have once asked to be taken off a case, which was ok with my boss, who explained to the family why.
My personal life is just that, personal, and I don't want my clients being distracted by it.
Gay is fne. I don't have an issue with that, anyhthing that brings a little more live into the world is a good thing.
Tattoos are not a good thing unless they are part of your culture. Being a footballer or a hipster is not a culture.
Okay I am biased here. My uncle was a para and had the tats to prove it on his forearm. No complaints from me. He had earned his tattoos the hard way and good luck. But getting tattoos like a premiership footballer is just "chav" and I for one find them repellent.
--------------------
"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
Doesn't at all describe prejudice, does it? ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
deano
princess
# 12063
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Doesn't at all describe prejudice, does it?
It describes mine.
A few others are here...
Posh or Chav
--------------------
"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
But at the same time we want people to work for a living ...
(And scrubs are not 'normal' clothes.)
Come to that do you not when veteran military medical staff to be able to work as paramedics after they complete their service in the forces ?
Scrubs are normal in hospitals. End of...
Do you want to add some punctuation to your last paragraph so we may be able to understand it?
Sorry that should read, "Come to that do you not want veteran military medical staff to be able to work as paramedics, after they complete their service in the forces ?"
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Doesn't at all describe prejudice, does it?
It describes mine.
A few others are here...
Posh or Chav
The practical problem with that piece of class prejudice, leaving aside the ethics of it, is that low paid health care assistant posts - and to lesser extent qualified nursing posts - tend not to be filled by people from mostly middle class backgrounds.
Like it or not many of these jobs will have to be filled by "chavs" or *gasp* immigrants - or we will not have enough staff. Perhaps not judging people by appearance would be more helpful than massively reducing the recruitment pool.
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
|
Posted
Class prejudice, ethically unsound, practically flawed... it's hard to imagine this is a seriously thought-out position rather than just a fun thing to say.
--------------------
mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
Class prejudice, ethically unsound, practically flawed... it's hard to imagine this is a seriously thought-out position rather than just a fun thing to say.
Almost impossible to imagine, even.
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Marama
Shipmate
# 330
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Sorry, and I may be old fashioned here, but tattoos are okay on soldiers and sailors. Anyone else having them should NOT be given a job in the first place if they are visible whilst wearing normal clothes as defined by a Conservative councillor.
Posts: 910 | From: Canberra | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Marama
Shipmate
# 330
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Sorry, and I may be old fashioned here, but tattoos are okay on soldiers and sailors. Anyone else having them should NOT be given a job in the first place if they are visible whilst wearing normal clothes as defined by a Conservative councillor.
Deano, you do realise that this is rather a Euro-centric perspective. Arabella is from NZ, Polynesia, where tatoos originated, and the cultural connotations (for both Pakeha and Maori) are rather different. Sailors appropriated Polynesia custom. Does this put a different slant on the debate?
Posts: 910 | From: Canberra | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
deano
princess
# 12063
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marama:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Sorry, and I may be old fashioned here, but tattoos are okay on soldiers and sailors. Anyone else having them should NOT be given a job in the first place if they are visible whilst wearing normal clothes as defined by a Conservative councillor.
Deano, you do realise that this is rather a Euro-centric perspective. Arabella is from NZ, Polynesia, where tatoos originated, and the cultural connotations (for both Pakeha and Maori) are rather different. Sailors appropriated Polynesia custom. Does this put a different slant on the debate?
Nope. Not for me. Sorry. I hate the damned things on people who have them as "fun" things to get. I blame footballers. I'm sure there are less pleasant sites but when I see British people with arms, legs and torsos filled with tattoos, then I do find it quite repellant.
And those with celtic or chinese wording are pretentious as well.
--------------------
"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
quote:
Originally posted by Marama:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Sorry, and I may be old fashioned here, but tattoos are okay on soldiers and sailors. Anyone else having them should NOT be given a job in the first place if they are visible whilst wearing normal clothes as defined by a Conservative councillor.
Deano, you do realise that this is rather a Euro-centric perspective. Arabella is from NZ, Polynesia, where tatoos originated, and the cultural connotations (for both Pakeha and Maori) are rather different. Sailors appropriated Polynesia custom. Does this put a different slant on the debate?
Nope. Not for me. Sorry. I hate the damned things on people who have them as "fun" things to get. I blame footballers. I'm sure there are less pleasant sites but when I see British people with arms, legs and torsos filled with tattoos, then I do find it quite repellant.
And those with celtic or chinese wording are pretentious as well.
It's interesting to know what the celtic or chines words might mean .... wouldn't be ironic if it read "Ha more money made!"
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
|
Posted
Mamacita: quote:
Arabella is from NZ, Polynesia, where tattoos originated, and the cultural connotations (for both Pakeha and Maori) are rather different.
The modern fashion for tattoos may have originated in Polynesia, but our ancestors in Europe tattooed themselves as well. People all over the world have been doing it for thousands of years. Historically, elaborate tattoos were a sign of high status. This may be why many members of the upper classes, including the Royal Family (not just those who have served in the Navy) have been tattooed.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
|
Posted
We none of us have an untrammelled right to insist that others accept us when we express our personalities. We all have to accept that we need to fit in with the expectations of those who move in the same circles as we do. If there is a dress code where we work, then provided it isn't glaringly unreasonable or expensive (with out money rather than our employer's) to comply with, we have no reason to complain about being expected to follow it.
The fact that shipmates, in apparently approximately equal numbers are saying that they do or do not like tattoos means that if a person has got one, it's difficult to regard it as unreasonable if their employer tells them to keep it covered when at work.
It does mean that if you look like the chap half way down this page on the left some people may choose not to employ you. But, can he grumble? It's not a disability. He wasn't born like that.
--------------------
Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
... It does mean that if you look like the chap half way down this page on the left some people may choose not to employ you. But, can he grumble? It's not a disability. He wasn't born like that.
I live in a neighbourhood that reeks of self-expression and mustache wax. I can assure you there are businesses that would hire that dude. Definitely not the women's second-hand clothing store or the Money Mart, but he'd be welcome at skateboard shops, breweries, bike shops, and the place that sells bizarro costume items.
<tangent> I once ate at a restaurant where my server had ridiculously long nails with beads and crystals glued on. All I could think of during my entire meal was, "When was the last time you really washed your hands properly?" </tangent>
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
|
Posted
Were they definitely real? Either way it doesn't seem ideal with food.
--------------------
mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
|
Posted
We had a nurse with very long nails of that sort in the NICU (newborn intensive care). I winced every time I saw her touch a baby, particularly when it looked like she was nicking their skin. Ouch. And, germs.
--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Sorry, and I may be old fashioned here, but tattoos are okay on soldiers and sailors.
Old fashioned? Progressive - you mean! I showed your post to some of my mates in the services (army and navy) and they were delighted you approved of their ink. Paula's neck swallow, and Kathy's half-sleeve celtic swirl thing are indeed very fine to look at. Not my thing, personally, but they're so happy YOU like them!
--------------------
Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
We had a nurse with very long nails of that sort in the NICU (newborn intensive care). I winced every time I saw her touch a baby, particularly when it looked like she was nicking their skin. Ouch. And, germs.
Not allowed in the NHS - nor is nail varnish.
--------------------
Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
|
Posted
I rather doubt most hospitals do here, either.
In fact, I suspect it was a new thing and her supervisor hadn't noticed yet. It's a pretty obvious "don't."
--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Printer-friendly view
